Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[goldb]

this topic is not about zoro, stop going off-topic. Moderators have been calling out this kind of toxic behaviour
Stop doing this, king moe

sanji clearly doesn't devastate PO, PO was landing attack to sanji too

This thread is not about Zoro but here we find ourselves going through the same motions of the same discussion yet again. This isn't just specifically for this thread but the Zoro one too.

So please, let's find an interesting topic of discussion about Sanji. Maybe one that we can add a poll to in order to broaden the engagement.

 

[King Moe]

This thread is not about Zoro but here we find ourselves going through the same motions of the same discussion yet again. This isn't just specifically for this thread but the Zoro one too.

So please, let's find an interesting topic of discussion about Sanji. Maybe one that we can add a poll to in order to broaden the engagement.

All I am saying on Sanji he is being prep up for something bigger on who he face later and that is either King or Queen given they know about situation of Soba Mask incidents, so they probably be after him more throughout war to prevent him going around. I can see that happening with that.

Also feel he is going be like Luffy on going next level of his power and abilities from an tough fight as if Luffy is aiming to beat an Yonko this arc, Sanji would need to be in YC lvl territory by the end of it and beating King or Queen would be great start as well boost to his Haki and Black Leg style of fighting.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Anyway, sanji unfortunately gets beaten a lot in new world and does not perform as good as he used to be. Hopefully RS will bring us the good old sanji

 

[Sachsenhesse]

So i just checked the anime... and it seems Sanji really didnt defeat Page1. After his attack, where the fight ended in the manga, in the anime Page1 still stands up and calls for him, where as sanji flies back to usopp and franky.

He was dominating him for sure, but as it stands now its a stallmate.

 

[King Moe]

So i just checked the anime... and it seems Sanji really didnt defeat Page1. After his attack, where the fight ended in the manga, in the anime Page1 still stands up and calls for him, where as sanji flies back to usopp and franky.

He was dominating him for sure, but as it stands now its a stallmate.

If you believe the anime then by same logic Luffy and Zoro couldn't beat Batman in their fight and Zoro has to use Haki on all fodders and overusing his power compare to how he fought Pica. So Wano fodders > Pica? Anime is Non-Canon. Page One was defeated in manga as doesn't make sense why PO if he was active just went quiet like that after he failed to beat him. Oda wouldn't keep a character like that unmentioned and not causing havoc unless something happen to him.

Think it's misunderstanding again by Anime on what they did just like prior in other scenes we mention here.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Jeah... but the difference is, we know how the other scenes ended. Sanji vs. P1 was always a debate, because we never saw a defeated P1, we just assumed it. But with the anime showing a nonconclusion to their fight, its kinda... sad to say, but P1 wasnt defeated by Sanji yet.

We dont have mangaproof, that Sanji did it. But we have animeproof, that he didnt.

 

[King Moe]

Jeah... but the difference is, we know how the other scenes ended. Sanji vs. P1 was always a debate, because we never saw a defeated P1, we just assumed it. But with the anime showing a nonconclusion to their fight, its kinda... sad to say, but P1 wasnt defeated by Sanji yet.

We dont have mangaproof, that Sanji did it. But we have animeproof, that he didnt.

Again you believe Zoro need Haki to beat fodders and couldn't beat Batman with Luffy. By logic they aren't ready facing stronger enemies. Just saying since you believe anime.

While we don't know how fight ended, PO was defeated entirely as he never came back. Make no sense he quit his mission when Beast Pirates don't take failure 'well'. PO wouldn't be stupid to go back like that and just stop.

He was defeated by Sanji on how manga hints heavily about situation as never came back to Drake and Hawkins side and no one complain on his issues from him again from civilians.

Wouldn't trust Anime too much as you going hurt yourself when it does something not exact like the manga.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

He was defeated by Sanji on how manga hints heavily about situation as never came back to Drake and Hawkins side and no one complain on his issues from him again from civilians.

Jeah. HINTED. And even that veeeeeery badly. Dont you think in an open fight like this was, the animedirectors wouldnt go to Oda and ask how it ended? This isnt like a important part of the story, where Oda need to hold back things, a simple "sanji defeated him" would have been enough.

But instead we get a: Page1 stands up, as it was nothing.

This fight in particular, i wanted to see it in the anime, because they could show us what really happened, or how it concluded and guess what. They did. You dont need to like the outcome, but they showed more then the manga.

 

[King Moe]

Jeah. HINTED. And even that veeeeeery badly. Dont you think in an open fight like this was, the animedirectors wouldnt go to Oda and ask how it ended? This isnt like a important part of the story, where Oda need to hold back things, a simple "sanji defeated him" would have been enough.

But instead we get a: Page1 stands up, as it was nothing.

This fight in particular, i wanted to see it in the anime, because they could show us what really happened, or how it concluded and guess what. They did. You dont need to like the outcome, but they showed more then the manga.

They done it before after all. Are you new to Anime? They are same one who undo Luffy getting one-shot to extend to full fight he could even handle his Zoan Form in a fight. They give Zoro Haki to beat fodders even change scene of Zoro needing Haki to cut Magistrate with his Knife when manga didn't stated he needed Haki for it. Again Anime can go different routes on things. Oda stated in interview about Anime doing stuff like that.

You don't need to show visible to get idea he defeated someone. We never saw outcome of BB vs Ace or Admirals vs RA Commanders? Did Ace didn't lose or fight didn't take place on latter since we never seen it? He off-screen stuff from time to time. It's nothing new. Thinking it means something happen doesn't help when PO after several chapters as now we reaching War side, never came back and never terrorize anyone after that. You got no proof to state it as believing is very asterisk as they do stuff different time to time.

Just telling you truth of situation. What be your explanation for upcoming scenes if they choose in Anime to not show him again in the future scenes from manga and just go quiet?

Again if you believe Anime, you must believe other stuff I mention. You can't be biased and believe one stuff and not the other. Do you believe Anime is Canon or Not?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

We never saw outcome of BB vs Ace

... We did. Aces hat on the ground.

Do you believe Anime is Canon or Not?

Wasnt there a quote where Oda states that the anime can expend on some scenes, where he couldnt?

I dont see anime as THE canon, but as an extentation of it, if something is unclear in the manga and the anime gets an explanation, well then its canon. Just wait and see how this all will conclude, maybe we never see P1 again, but right now i wouldnt count on it.

 

[King Moe]

No you are just a hypocrite who tries to derail conversations about the shortcomings of Sanji and if it suceeds you call for the mods.



... We did. Aces hat on the ground.


Wasnt there a quote where Oda states that the anime can expend on some scenes, where he couldnt?

I dont see anime as THE canon, but as an extentation of it, if something is unclear in the manga and the anime gets an explanation, well then its canon. Just wait and see how this all will conclude, maybe we never see P1 again, but right now i wouldnt count on it.

Nope on topic and talking about how Anime changes things out of manga on how things goes. Stop ignoring issues that it affects Luffy, Zoro, and others, not just Sanji. It's not canon. If Anime is, you must accept those scenes too. Not going off topic, your getting too sensitive over these examples as you have to admit they are canon now if you truly believe the Anime.

Having his Hat on the ground doesn't mean it was end for him. Fight was never stated who won, just that it was epic battle and we don't know how got final blow and how it was like.

That is poor excuse to say we knew when it when other means heavily implied about the fight without Oda showing how it ended.

There is also quote by Oda who said the Anime goes different routes as they expand at times. So your disregarding one thing he said for other for your agenda? Just show your getting biased about this for your own ideals

You are saying it if your saying Sanji didn't beat PO based on that scene, so you either have to say this. Yes or No Question. Do you believe everything is in filler scenes are canon or you do not? You can't pick and choose what you believe is canon over other.

If manga shown him never come backing despite being 'active' it shows that It might be miscommunication from Anime staff on how they handle. Perhaps they fixed it by doing anime filler of Sanji beating him down before everyone meet up again to prepare for the War.

 

[goldb]

I'm writing this then we're moving on to another discussion regarding Sanji; this argument about the outcome of the fight between him and Page One has gone on for such a long time that I'm certain if you've all made these same points month after month.

I'll start off by saying that there is no winner in the fight between Sanji v Page One. Why? because the point of the fight wasn't for Sanji to earn a victory, but rather for Oda to showcase Sanji using the raid suit (to hype up its use in future fights) and more importantly, to protect his identity from the enemy as to not reveal their plans.

The issue we have here is the manga doesn't show the outcome of the fight (simply Sanji joining Franky and co to continue their escape) but the anime shows that Page One comes out largely unscathed. @King Moe I understand you dispute this fact because anime is not canon, and I can respect that it's not 100% accurate/canon (and that's without getting into filler talk and being vague with that number), it contains a large number of filler episodes and the production team take a lot of creative liberties when it comes to fights; extending them to ridiculous lengths to extend/fill the episode or just to create a spectacle; much to the annoyance of us readers.

With that said, one thing to remember here is that this encounter between Page One and Sanji is a plot point to most likely build to a future fight, so the decision to show outcome of their fight in the anime would have had to be approved by Oda as to not create inconsistencies in the ongoing series.

As @Sachsenhesse said earlier:

We dont have mangaproof, that Sanji did it. But we have animeproof, that he didnt.

To believe simply that because we've not seen him( Page One) since his clash means that he's defeated, that's naive; as we can't confirm that. Whether you believe the anime or not. We've also not seen Jinbe after the crew escapes WCI and we've encountered Big Mom in Wano. Does this confirm for certain that Jinbe has been defeated?

All I am saying on Sanji he is being prep up for something bigger on who he face later and that is either King or Queen given they know about situation of Soba Mask incidents, so they probably be after him more throughout war to prevent him going around. I can see that happening with that.

Also feel he is going be like Luffy on going next level of his power and abilities from an tough fight as if Luffy is aiming to beat an Yonko this arc, Sanji would need to be in YC lvl territory by the end of it and beating King or Queen would be great start as well boost to his Haki and Black Leg style of fighting.

If Sanji is being prepped to fight anyone it is Page One or Drake, because he's already encountered them and so they have history. That though doesn't mean he won't fight a Calamity or isn't at that level. We've simply not seen much from Sanji in this timeskip to say how he would fare against them for certain. We know he can hold his own against Drake and Page One, so we can certainly say he's at least at that level of a Flying Six Headliner.

In order for Sanji and the rest of the crew to defeat these opponents they will have to showcase a new level of strength and in their abilities; that much is true.

 

[King Moe]

I'm writing this then we're moving on to another discussion regarding Sanji; this argument about the outcome of the fight between him and Page One has gone on for such a long time that I'm certain if you've all made these same points month after month.

I'll start off by saying that there is no winner in the fight between Sanji v Page One. Why? because the point of the fight wasn't for Sanji to earn a victory, but rather for Oda to showcase Sanji using the raid suit (to hype up its use in future fights) and more importantly, to protect his identity from the enemy as to not reveal their plans.

The issue we have here is the manga doesn't show the outcome of the fight (simply Sanji joining Franky and co to continue their escape) but the anime shows that Page One comes out largely unscathed. @King Moe I understand you dispute this fact because anime is not canon, and I can respect that it's not 100% accurate/canon (and that's without getting into filler talk and being vague with that number), it contains a large number of filler episodes and the production team take a lot of creative liberties when it comes to fights; extending them to ridiculous lengths to extend/fill the episode or just to create a spectacle; much to the annoyance of us readers.

With that said, one thing to remember here is that this encounter between Page One and Sanji is a plot point to most likely build to a future fight, so the decision to show outcome of their fight in the anime would have had to be approved by Oda as to not create inconsistencies in the ongoing series.

As @Sachsenhesse said earlier:



To believe simply that because we've not seen him( Page One) since his clash means that he's defeated, that's naive; as we can't confirm that. Whether you believe the anime or not. We've also not seen Jinbe after the crew escapes WCI and we've encountered Big Mom in Wano. Does this confirm for certain that Jinbe has been defeated?



If Sanji is being prepped to fight anyone it is Page One or Drake, because he's already encountered them and so they have history. That though doesn't mean he won't fight a Calamity or isn't at that level. We've simply not seen much from Sanji in this timeskip to say how he would fare against them for certain. We know he can hold his own against Drake and Page One, so we can certainly say he's at least at that level of a Flying Six Headliner.

In order for Sanji and the rest of the crew to defeat these opponents they will have to showcase a new level of strength and in their abilities; that much is true.

I understand they it been off-screen on what happen, but still doesn't make sense to follow Anime when they already put Batman over Luffy and Zoro. He even took on an Haki attacks from them. Does that mean we should expect Luffy and Zoro face him at the war? Just saying we shouldn't trust anime that it was all by 'Oda's order' since we don't know for sure which is canon which isn't. Even Oda stated they go different routes than what he wanted. So with that we can presume anime situation on PO could be a mistake they did on their part since Oda in manga have gone his way to stop PO appearing and never came back since. Doesn't make sense why he quit IF (Emphasizing) he did survive, he just stops completely on everything. It seems so out of character and how Beast Pirates are shown on failure, they get punished badly especially by their superiors. Also doesn't make sense why Drake get pissed off when he sees him next time. He looks as if he lost his ally then being calm when he appear before.

Overall it just look like it's contradicting if we were to follow Anime on their side over Manga as some stuff don't make sense if we look at it. Mistakes could happen and this could one of them since Oda might not have time to talk to them on situation.

As for later fights, if you mean an warm-up fights, I can see Drake as warm-up, but not PO. Oda already push Sanji is above him in the first one. Don't see why to push again same easy opponent unless we getting Holdem vs Luffy again before build-up to his. Feel like Oda will go into new fights and final fights will be as Luffy vs Yonkos and Sanji vs YCs with certain people depending.

They already trained to be above since their last battles, so no doubt Sanji is above T6H already even before that. With his body trained and suit modify, would say he more on King or Queen level unless during fight he increase his Haki more to push him to his limits like Luffy did with Katakuri.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

If sanji doesnt fight YC, sanji might just have a rematch with drake (sanji doesnt have full fight yet with a supernova unlike luffy and zoro)

 

[XXGenesis]

Reasoning for Sanji not being YC imo.
It's a hype of the character, but a stretch because as we all know, we haven't seen much of Sanji Post Time Skip. Also it's a scaling based off of Luffy's preserverance last arc.

1) Sanji shouldn't be scaled potential wise to Luffy.
2) Post Time Skip. Luffy was already low YC in G4.
3) So haven't seen much from Sanji PTS. I doubt his Full Power would be YC like Luffy.
4)Awkwardly Sanji recieved a power up via RS. Still reluctant to say this makes him YC...

 

[King Moe]

Reasoning for Sanji not being YC imo.
It's a hype of the character, but a stretch because as we all know, we haven't seen much of Sanji Post Time Skip. Also it's a scaling based off of Luffy's preserverance last arc.

1) Sanji shouldn't be scaled potential wise to Luffy.
2) Post Time Skip. Luffy was already low YC in G4.
3) So haven't seen much from Sanji PTS. I doubt his Full Power would be YC like Luffy.
4)Awkwardly Sanji recieved a power up via RS. Still reluctant to say this makes him YC...

Sanji hasn't shown his full power, but even so would be on same YC lvl at this point especially he train and modify his suit already all that hype just for him not reach it yet his captain is reaching Yonko lvl to face an Yonko. He going to face YC lvl opponent in this and King or Queen are best choices for it especially help him gained Luffy vs Katakuri to boost his power even more, so nah not really farfetched on how Oda is writing things.

 

[nik87]

If sanji doesnt fight YC, sanji might just have a rematch with drake (sanji doesnt have full fight yet with a supernova unlike luffy and zoro)

I think he cant fight a swordsman like Drake, rematch with P1 seems more likely and whether he will get to fight Queen is not certain, especially if Queen's swords arent just decoration.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

I think he cant fight a swordsman like Drake, rematch with P1 seems more likely and whether he will get to fight Queen is not certain, especially if Queen's swords arent just decoration.

Actually, since probably big mom crews also join the festival, yuen might be there too (the dude who knocked down sanji at WCI with a single swing of his fan)
Sanji might also get rematch with yuen

 

[goldb]

As for later fights, if you mean an warm-up fights, I can see Drake as warm-up, but not PO. Oda already push Sanji is above him in the first one. Don't see why to push again same easy opponent unless we getting Holdem vs Luffy again before build-up to his. Feel like Oda will go into new fights and final fights will be as Luffy vs Yonkos and Sanji vs YCs with certain people depending.

They already trained to be above since their last battles, so no doubt Sanji is above T6H already even before that. With his body trained and suit modify, would say he more on King or Queen level unless during fight he increase his Haki more to push him to his limits like Luffy did with Katakuri.

So Drake, a Supernova and pirate Captain himself would be a warm up fight for Sanji?
We'll disagree on that. It's very possible Sanji could defeat Drake in an all out fight, regardless of the fact that he uses his long axes, but to call him a warm up is hugely underestimating someone we know to be a higher tier within Kaido's ranks than even the likes of Hawkins, another supernova.

I don't believe Sanji is on a Calamity level at the moment, as a very reasonable argument (as I've made above) can be made that right now he's just about at the Flying Six Headliner tier.

You have to take into consideration that the only people we've seen or heard fight yonkou commanders in this timeskip have been pirate captains, specifically Supernova captains; Luffy, Urouge and Kid (if memory serves me right). So to say that Sanji can have one of them as a final enemy in this arc is being hopeful to say the least.

Again, it's not say it won't happen, it's just to say based on current showing it's unlikely Sanji can defeat one right now, let alone fight one. Ultimately, that's the level you hope for him to be on and I think he'll fight to a level just in between those (commander and Flying Six).

Personally I don't think it'll be Drake that he fights. Coming into the final battle I think his mission as SWORD member will take precedence and/or he'll act to help defeat Kaido in order to help shift the balance of power between the WG and pirates.

 

[Fox666]

If a single panel of Sanji trying to kick Drake is of any indication, he stand no chance against Drake.