One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[thedude]

But if that is true, why is he then including outsiders as those who can beat him? It makes no sense to jump between Wano only and the entire world within a sentence...

These are just facts and inevitable truth, mate.

It's why no one takes your arguments seriously. It's too obvious why you are stretching the truth, misreading panels, using random sources, etc. It's too obvious what all the twisting and stretching is about.

 

[nik87]

It's why no one takes your arguments seriously. It's too obvious why you are stretching the truth, misreading panels, using random sources, etc. It's too obvious what all the twisting and stretching is about.

The only obvious thing is that people arguing against me are using headcanon and mental gymnastics to come at a different conclusion.
"If I cant beat him, no one else can either..." The "no one else" in that sentence means exactly what it means - no one.
Oden never specified it meaning only Wano, it is you guys who did.
Oden includes outside Wano characters as those who can beat Kaido, doesnt include Whitebeard who is also outside Wano character, you guys turning heaven and earth upside down to avoid the fact that is in your face...
Ace novel confirms Kaido>Whitebeard, you guys refusing that information...

And I am the problem? Sure, tell that to yourself if it helps...

 

[jaymizzo]

The only obvious thing is that people arguing against me are using headcanon and mental gymnastics to come at a different conclusion.
"If I cant beat him, no one else can either..." The "no one else" in that sentence means exactly what it means - no one.
Oden never specified it meaning only Wano, it is you guys who did.
Oden includes outside Wano characters as those who can beat Kaido, doesnt include Whitebeard who is also outside Wano character, you guys turning heaven and earth upside down to avoid the fact that is in your face...
Ace novel confirms Kaido>Whitebeard, you guys refusing that information...

And I am the problem? Sure, tell that to yourself if it helps...

Yeah I'm pretty sure when you get proven wrong once again, you'll back up to one of your well known phrases...

I mean, it's not like Wano was closed off... It's not like Oden was waiting fot someone (Luffy) to reenter Wano and defeat Kaido to be able to open the borders. It's not like Oden was weaker than Roger and WB... But nah, he was the stronkest.

Arguing with you just becomes meh the more someone's actually tries to prove something.

 

[Fox666]

"If I cant beat him, no one else can either..." The "no one else" in that sentence means exactly what it means - no one.
Oden never specified it meaning only Wano, it is you guys who did.

Not necessarily.

If raises the question as to why Oden didn't asked for Whitebeard or Roger help, but if he did not, apparently they were not an option.

Ace novel confirms Kaido>Whitebeard, you guys refusing that information...

The novels or Vivre Card have been contradicted before.

Honestly I find it hard to believe now after seeing that the clash between Roger and Whitebeard surprised Oden, yet Oden humilhated Kaido...

 

[thedude]

The only obvious thing is that people arguing against me are using headcanon and mental gymnastics to come at a different conclusion.
"If I cant beat him, no one else can either..." The "no one else" in that sentence means exactly what it means - no one.
Oden never specified it meaning only Wano, it is you guys who did.
Oden includes outside Wano characters as those who can beat Kaido, doesnt include Whitebeard who is also outside Wano character, you guys turning heaven and earth upside down to avoid the fact that is in your face...
Ace novel confirms Kaido>Whitebeard, you guys refusing that information...

And I am the problem? Sure, tell that to yourself if it helps...

No one there. In Wano. He didn't say no one in the world. He was talking about the people there because Wano was closed off. It's tough to say if the world even knows Oden is dead, see this panel:

404 Page Not Found

The requested URL was not found on this server. That's all we know.

mangaseeonline.us

So no one is much more likely to mean "no one will save us, it's up to us in the country, and I'm the only one strong enough". That's using text. You are using:

Zoro>Kaido>=Oden>everyone else, ie, making crap up to lift your guy.

 

[nik87]

It's not like Oden was waiting fot someone (Luffy) to reenter Wano and defeat Kaido to be able to open the borders.

Why didnt he consider Whitebeard to reenter Wano and defeat Kaido to be able to open borders? Oh, because no one else can in long time.

Not necessarily.
If raises the question as to why Oden didn't asked for Whitebeard or Roger help, but if he did not, apparently they were not an option.

Roger was already dead by the time he failed to defeat Kaido and his response No One Else Can...tells that no one else can defeat Kaido.

The novels or Vivre Card have been contradicted before.
Honestly I find it hard to believe now after seeing that the clash between Roger and Whitebeard surprised Oden, yet Oden humilhated Kaido...

Sure, does it mean all the info they provide is wrong? No.
Oden who fought Kaido >>> Oden who was looking WBvsRoger, manga already explained that.
Oden got in a cheap shot on Kaido, when they clashed in Orochi castle he couldnt do anything except fight equally with his base form.

No one there. In Wano. He didn't say no one in the world. He was talking about the people there because Wano was closed off.

Where did he specify IN WANO? You know what means no one without specifying? It means no one. Plain and simple, without mental gymnastics.

So no one is much more likely to mean "no one will save us, it's up to us in the country, and I'm the only one strong enough".

He specifically mention people outside of Wano who will defeat Kaido without mentioning WB who is a man outside of Wano... Does it get more clear?

You are using:
Zoro>Kaido>=Oden>everyone else, ie, making crap up to lift your guy.

Zoro will become greatest swordsman ever, that is inevitable. That means Zoro>Mihawk/Roger/Oden/Ryuma/Rocks/whatever swordsman you can think of.
Whether Zoro will be stronger than Kaido, I dont know. I am saying that Zoro will kill Kaido not that Zoro is above Kaido in Wano. Difference.

 

[jaymizzo]

Zoro will become greatest swordsman ever, that is inevitable. That means Zoro>Mihawk/Roger/Oden/Ryuma/Rocks/whatever swordsman you can think of.
Whether Zoro will be stronger than Kaido, I dont know. I am saying that Zoro will kill Kaido not that Zoro is above Kaido in Wano. Difference.

Like I said... Meh

 

[SupremeMod]

Goddammit Zoro-dudes, stop ruining him. Let him fight someone of significance in this arc before you anoint him. Jeebus.

I'm pretty sure Oda wants to write Zoro v Mihawk but I'm wondering where it'll fit in. After this arc in the lead up to the final arc? Unless the WG somehow manages to convince(force, more likely) Mihawk to fight on their behalf at the end. In that scenario would Mihawk truly go all out? Maybe if Zoro opens his eye or something. I dunno.

There's still too many players in the game. Shanks, BB, and the Admirals. Not to mention Dragon and the RA.

Oda said 5 years right? Doubt it. I just hope we all get to see the end by Oda. Same way I feel about A Song of Ice and Fire.

Anyways, I'm pretty drunk and high. lol Hope everyone is safe with this chinese virus bullshit. Cheers.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Look what I came across on Reddit lol don't kill the messenger but this poll cracked me up (since I am on the Shanks side of things) so I often think I am in the minority

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 1, 2020 ---

I stick to these small forum so I dont really think I have ever seen Shanks WAY ahead in a poll vs Mihawk, usually it's very close. Which is why i find it so funny

 

[hokageji]

Roger was clearly joking when he said that. I see it as protecting Oden from getting skewered cos Rayleigh looked damn serious in that panel.

Remember Roger had been itching for a fight in that chapter and the first chance he gets with an oncoming Oden - he indulged. Hence Rayleigh's reply.

Well, we didn't se Rayleigh and Oden fight enough to conclude that Rayleigh is stronger than Oden.
I think Rayleigh and Oden are way higher than other Yonko commanders, and by that we can argue that they are similar strengths, but who's stronger is hard to tell.

That's such a terrible reading of those panels. It's clear Roger is making an excuse because he wants to fight him. Look at his smiling face, look at their comment "you just want to fight him yourself".

I don't get why people misread things intentionally like this. Is it just to fit a pre-formed judgement you already have?

My only point is that Oden didn't fight Roger, didn't fight Whitebeard long enough but managed to slash Kaido and get one hit KO by him.... so there's lack of evidence that Oden is a Yonko level.....
Roger was making an excuse, sure.... but he wasn't even serious with Oden, just moved him away so he can fight Whitebeard. So as per the point i was trying to make, Oden isnt at Yonko level...

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 1, 2020 ---

Zoro will become greatest swordsman ever, that is inevitable. That means Zoro>Mihawk/Roger/Oden/Ryuma/Rocks/whatever swordsman you can think of.
Whether Zoro will be stronger than Kaido, I dont know. I am saying that Zoro will kill Kaido not that Zoro is above Kaido in Wano. Difference.

Well, if you are discussing that EOS Zoro > Mihawk atleast, i dont think anyone is debating that.

And when you say Zoro will kill Kaido, but isnt stronger than him, you mean Luffy will soften Kaido nicely, make him a target so Zoro can kill him? OK...

 

[nik87]

And when you say Zoro will kill Kaido, but isnt stronger than him, you mean Luffy will soften Kaido nicely, make him a target so Zoro can kill him? OK...

I'm sure he wont get any softer after Luffy, Kidd, Law and whoever else gets piece of him.

 

[Fox666]

Oden got in a cheap shot on Kaido

I don't see anything in the manga that suggests that. Kaido is the one who got a cheap shot on Kaido.

I'm also going to say that fighting Oden while he was inside the barrier is also an unfair advantage.

 

[nik87]

I don't see anything in the manga that suggests that. Kaido is the one who got a cheap shot on Kaido.

I'm also going to say that fighting Oden while he was inside the barrier is also an unfair advantage.

Did Kaido defend against the slash or was it a free hit?

 

[Fox666]

Did Kaido defend against the slash or was it a free hit?

Aren't all sword attacks like that in One Piece?

 

[nik87]

Aren't all sword attacks like that in One Piece?

No, they are not. That was a free hit against which Kaido didnt do anything. It didnt look like he was speed blitzed to be unable to defend, rather didnt even try. Mihawk and Zoro have gone at each other with their attacks, the better one scored. Zoro and Mr1 have gone at each other with their attacks, the better one scored...
Kaido's dragon form is unfit for combat and is one big target anyone capable can easily land a hit on.

 

[kcd]

It's why no one takes your arguments seriously. It's too obvious why you are stretching the truth, misreading panels, using random sources, etc. It's too obvious what all the twisting and stretching is about.

Lol... Speaking of sources, I guess his other source about Whitebeard being called the world's strongest man even when Oden was alive is now water under the bridge.

Maybe, if we bring up WB vs Rodger again, he might switch back to the first source and start invoking the "no mental gymnastics" phrase again.

 

[nik87]

Whitebeard being called the world's strongest man even when Oden was alive is now water under the bridge.

Why would it be?

 

[kcd]

Why would it be?

It would be 'water under the bridge' because... You're now claiming someone else was stronger than him

It simply means you no longer regard your earlier source of information.

 

[nik87]

It would be 'water under the bridge' because... You're now claiming someone else was stronger than him
It simply means you no longer regard your earlier source of information.

Again, even if I was claiming that, which I wasnt, it is not in conflict because The mighty Oden is a thing from just few chapters ago.
Oden saying If I cant defeat Kaido, no one else can doesnt necessarily mean that he is stronger than WB, just that the difference between them wouldnt be of any significance against Kaido.

 

[kcd]

Again, even if I was claiming that, which I wasnt, it is not in conflict because The mighty Oden is a thing from just few chapters ago.
Oden saying If I cant defeat Kaido, no one else can doesnt necessarily mean that he is stronger than WB, just that the difference between them wouldnt be of any significance against Kaido.

Oh wow, lol.

I'll quote your own words and give my thoughts.

(1)

We dont know if anyone was stronger than Oden, aside from Kaido.

Lol... But didn't your first source also say Whitebeard was stronger?
All of a sudden... We don't know who is stronger

(2)

What he said is that if he cannot kill him, nobody else can either, pretty much says Oden>rest. The Oden that fought Kaido is not the Oden who clashed with Whitebeard because Oden who returned to Wano after his voyage was "triumphant and invincible, many times stronger than the Oden who left Wano".

What the!?

Pardon? Did I read wrongly or, did you just say Oden was greater than the rest?

(3)

Again, even if I was claiming that, which I wasnt, it is not in conflict because The mighty Oden is a thing from just few chapters ago.

But you were!

Oden saying If I cant defeat Kaido, no one else can doesnt necessarily mean that he is stronger than WB, just that the difference between them wouldnt be of any significance against Kaido.

WTF
So now we're back to Oden isn't stronger than Whitebeard anymore?! You need to stop contradicting and confusing yourself and everyone. Chose one and stick to it.

Wait... Shouldn't I be the one telling you it's simple arithmetic?!

Bruh... I like you and all but... I don't even know what you're arguing anymore.

Adiós