Shounen Naruto by Masashi Kishimoto

[Ramen]

Alright guys who do you prefer:

Masked Obito or Madara

I'm not talking who's stronger, lol. But as a character, what version did you prefer.

Don't kill me, but I prefer masked Obito.

Masked Obito.

 

[Orion]

Alright how bout this one
@MUIMadara @Jammin @Rikudou King @lakhan220

Jiraiya vs. Itachi

Also, @Jammin you said you were a Narsaku shipper, how did you feel about Sakura not destroying Madara rinnegan?

 

[Ramen]

Alright how bout this one
@MUIMadara @Jammin @Rikudou King @lakhan220

Jiraiya vs. Itachi

Also, @Jammin you said you were a Narsaku shipper, how did you feel about Sakura not destroying Madara rinnegan?

Itachi. Don't see Jiraya doing anything against his Susanoo

 

[Jammin]

Also, @Jammin you said you were a Narsaku shipper, how did you feel about Sakura not destroying Madara rinnegan?

Indifferent. The same way I feel about most things toward and after the end of the series. The final nail in the coffin of her character was after the Kage summit. After that huge fail there was just nothing to salvage anymore.

 

[Orion]

Indifferent. The same way I feel about most things toward and after the end of the series. The final nail in the coffin of her character was after the Kage summit. After that huge fail there was just nothing to salvage anymore.

Oh yeah that was really bad too, lol. The fight against Sasori was still one my favs though

 

[Gallon]

Alright guys who do you prefer:

Masked Obito or Madara

I'm not talking who's stronger, lol. But as a character, what version did you prefer.

Don't kill me, but I prefer masked Obito.

Obito deserves an Oscar for his performance as Madara. He was really good.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 28, 2020 ---

Itachi vs Pain

Thought I'd comment on this one, actually. Virtually all answers settled for Itachi, but I'm not too sure about that. A good part of the outcome of the battle depends on how well Itachi knows the abilities of each Pain and the Rinnegan.
Assuming they started off with no information on each-other, I'd go for Pain winning more often than not. Amaterasu can be countered either through absorption or repulsion, and Itachi surely does not have the stamina to spam a Tsukuyomi for all six. Besides, it is not like the Pains feel pain (heh) or, arguably, mental trauma, so I'm not sure how effective that'd be. Unless it is directly transmitted to Nagato of course, but I'm not so sure as to how that'd work as he shares the vision of all six.
Hand-to-hand combat would be nigh impossible for the Uchiha, and with that, it comes down to the Susano'o.
Now, the drawbacks of it: Itachi cannot keep it going for long enough to effectively clear all Pains. The Totsuka blade will be unable to reach Tendo due to Shinra Tensei, and the five second gap can be bridged by the summoned creatures (especially that annoying hound), and its energy could be potentially absorbed by the Preta path.
And ultimately, a Chibaku Tensei is very problematic - a Rasenshuriken, Bijuudama, and Yasaka Magatama combo managed to destroy a planetary devastation in its early stages, but it's hard to believe only a Susano'o would be sufficient.

 

[Ramen]

Thought I'd comment on this one, actually. Virtually all answers settled for Itachi, but I'm not too sure about that. A good part of the outcome of the battle depends on how well Itachi knows the abilities of each Pain and the Rinnegan.
Assuming they started off with no information on each-other, I'd go for Pain winning more often than not. Amaterasu can be countered either through absorption or repulsion, and Itachi surely does not have the stamina to spam a Tsukuyomi for all six. Besides, it is not like the Pains feel pain (heh) or, arguably, mental trauma, so I'm not sure how effective that'd be.
Hand-to-hand combat would be nigh impossible for the Uchiha, and with that, it comes down to the Susano'o.
Now, the drawbacks of it: Itachi cannot keep it going for long enough to effectively clear all Pains. The Totsuka blade will be unable to reach Tendo due to Shinra Tensei, and the five second gap can be bridged by the summoned creatures (especially that annoying hound), and its energy could be potentially absorbed by the Preta path.
And ultimately, a Chibaku Tensei is very problematic - a Rasenshuriken, Bijuudama, and Yasaka Magatama combo managed to destroy a planetary devastation in its early stages, but it's hard to believe only a Susano'o would be sufficient.

Good analysis. Don't see anything I disagree with.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 28, 2020 ---

@Gallon How effective would Shinra Tensei be?

 

[Orion]

Thought I'd comment on this one, actually. Virtually all answers settled for Itachi, but I'm not too sure about that. A good part of the outcome of the battle depends on how well Itachi knows the abilities of each Pain and the Rinnegan.
Assuming they started off with no information on each-other, I'd go for Pain winning more often than not. Amaterasu can be countered either through absorption or repulsion, and Itachi surely does not have the stamina to spam a Tsukuyomi for all six. Besides, it is not like the Pains feel pain (heh) or, arguably, mental trauma, so I'm not sure how effective that'd be.
Hand-to-hand combat would be nigh impossible for the Uchiha, and with that, it comes down to the Susano'o.
Now, the drawbacks of it: Itachi cannot keep it going for long enough to effectively clear all Pains. The Totsuka blade will be unable to reach Tendo due to Shinra Tensei, and the five second gap can be bridged by the summoned creatures (especially that annoying hound), and its energy could be potentially absorbed by the Preta path.
And ultimately, a Chibaku Tensei is very problematic - a Rasenshuriken, Bijuudama, and Yasaka Magatama combo managed to destroy a planetary devastation in its early stages, but it's hard to believe only a Susano'o would be sufficient.

Only reason why I took Itachi is genjutsu. At first I didn't think genjutsu would work when discussing EMS Sasuke vs. Pain. But Lakhan provided a source or argument for it. But without it or it's not effective as you said, then yeah the pains would be too much too handle with limited MS use.

Curious how yata mirror reacts to shinra tensei. Shinra tensei isn't a nature transformation

 

[Gallon]

@Gallon How effective would Shinra Tensei be?

In the entire battle? Very, I'd say. It is a counter to most of what Itachi has to offer.
In the context of pushing Susano'o away, not much, I guess. Unless it's on the scale of the one that leveled Konoha, but that's not very beneficial in this case. Chibaku Tensei is much better.

Only reason why I took Itachi is genjutsu. At first I didn't think genjutsu would work when discussing EMS Sasuke vs. Pain. But Lakhan provided a source or argument for it. But without it or it's not effective as you said, then yeah the pains would be too much too handle with limited MS use.

Curious how yata mirror reacts to shinra tensei. Shinra tensei isn't a nature transformation

Genjutsu certainly does work, as Jiraya used it against 3 paths at a time, but I'd say that Rinnegan's vision share acts like multiple monitors, where falling under genjutsu only causes one out of the six "monitors" to go unresponsive. If it did anything to Nagato directly, the latter wouldn't have retaliated immediately with a fourth path when the three were caught in an illusion and killed by Jiraiya.

 

[Orion]

Genjutsu certainly does work, as Jiraya used it against 3 paths at a time, but I'd say that Rinnegan's vision share acts like multiple monitors, where falling under genjutsu only causes one out of the six "monitors" to go unresponsive. If it did anything to Nagato directly, the latter wouldn't have retaliated immediately with a fourth path when the three were caught in an illusion and killed by Jiraiya.

Yes, but that was sound. I wasn't sure if visual genjutsu would work on the Rinnegan, but Lakhan said superior eyes wouldn't be immune to genjutsu. So, in picking Itachi, I was assuming Itachi using lesser forms of genjutsu compared to tsukiyomi, to control the fight or alter reality.

 

[Holt]

Doesn't Yata reflect physical too? Push/pull are forces it'd be able to deal with I think. Yata + Susano imo would allow Itachi to be relatively unbothered by anything. Itachi is good enough to best Pain imo, though it depends on how ill he is. Lack of information works both ways. Since all the paths will be there, I'd say Itachi would already deduce a lot, and will more or less spend the first half testing the waters to identify their abilities. He's a doujutsu user too, so some of those things will be basic to him. Pain would also be forced to show his hands early too (Preta and Deva especially). Itachi would pick up on the fact that the paths have different unique abilities. I still see him edging out.

 

[Gallon]

Yes, but that was sound. I wasn't sure if visual genjutsu would work on the Rinnegan, but Lakhan said superior eyes wouldn't be immune to genjutsu. So, in picking Itachi, I was assuming Itachi using lesser forms of genjutsu compared to tsukiyomi, to control the fight or alter reality.

I mean, the point of it is to cause mental instability to the victim, so I'm not sure the source, be it sound or vision, matters in this context.
As for using regular Sharingan genjutsu, I'd probably say it's not powerful enough to do anything long-lasting to Pain. My memory is rusty though, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong here.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 28, 2020 ---

Doesn't Yata reflect physical too? Push/pull are forces it'd be able to deal with I think. Yata + Susano imo would allow Itachi to be relatively unbothered by anything. Itachi is good enough to best Pain imo, though it depends on how ill he is. Lack of information works both ways. Since all the paths will be there, I'd say Itachi would already deduce a lot, and will more or less spend the first half testing the waters to identify their abilities. He's a doujutsu user too, so some of those things will be basic to him. Pain would also be forced to show his hands early too (Preta and Deva especially). Itachi would pick up on the fact that the paths have different unique abilities. I still see him edging out.

I don't see Yata and Susano'o doing anything against Chibaku Tensei. I'm also unsure if Bansho Tenin can be used to simply pull Itachi out of the Susano'o, but let's assume not for now.
Besides, Pain doesn't even need to overpower Susano'o - just let Itachi run out of steam by spamming animals, causing distractions, and preventing death of Deva or Preta.

 

[Holt]

I don't see Yata and Susano'o doing anything against Chibaku Tensei. I'm also unsure if Bansho Tenin can be used to simply pull Itachi out of the Susano'o.
Besides, Pain doesn't even need to overpower Susano'o - just let Itachi run out of steam by spamming animals, causing distractions, and preventing death of Deva or Preta.

Well there's no information so Pain wouldn't know that Itachi would run out of steam fast. For chibaku Tensi, wasn't 8 tails breaking out of it with raw strength? And after Minato fixed the seal, there was just a large hole and it started to crumble. I feel Itachi's full body susano can replicate that. Chibaku would be pointless here tho (imo).

 

[Gallon]

Well there's no information so Pain wouldn't know that Itachi would run out of steam fast. For chibaku Tensi, wasn't 8 tails breaking out of it with raw strength? And after Minato fixed the seal, there was just a large hole and it started to crumble. I feel Itachi's full body susano can replicate that. Chibaku would be pointless here tho (imo).

A perfect Susano'o is at the level of a tailed beast; Itachi's Susano'o is much weaker in terms of raw power.
Also, you have to realize that was a Chibaku Tensei after Nagato had expended most of his chakra by destroying Konoha and fighting multiple opponents, and yet, when the eight-tailed Kurama was breaking out of it, he was planning to continue making the Chibaku Tensei bigger.

As for the information, it's not really necessary - Pain's fighting style depends on protecting Deva no matter what, and using the other ones as support. He'd notice Itachi cannot keep it going for much ultimately.

 

[Rikudou King]

Alright guys who do you prefer:

Masked Obito or Madara

By masked, you mean before the Obito reveal, when he was still pretending to be Madara? I liked the idea of a villain who didn't have much power still being a major player, much preferred over villains who are just overpowered.

Jiraiya vs. Itachi

Itachi. Jiraiya is good, but he needs time to set up and get to the point where he would be a threat to Itachi, while Itachi needs no time to be dangerous.

 

[Orion]

By masked, you mean before the Obito reveal, when he was still pretending to be Madara? I liked the idea of a villain who didn't have much power still being a major player, much preferred over villains who are just overpowered.

Yep exactly

Itachi. Jiraiya is good, but he needs time to set up and get to the point where he would be a threat to Itachi, while Itachi needs no time to be dangerous.

Yeah, I doubt Itachi just let's him go sage. Okay how bout this, Jiraiya has both frogs and goes sage mode. So Itachi vs, Sage Jiraiya is match conditions

 

[lakhan220]

Can totsuka cut through FBS? It’s description said it can cut through almost anything, so the limits are unknown I guess. The yata should negate any of Sasukes attack. So, Itachi does have the counter and some advantages, but it’s limited as you said by stress. For me personally, I usually lean towards the person with superior battle sense where the power gap is within reason.





Ehhh, I still see nagato, just cause he hard counters flame control. Genjutsu is probably Sasukes best course, but Nagato also has camouflaged summoning. Remember in addition to Rinnegan abilties, Jiraiya said Nagato was able master every jutsu he taught him, all nature transformations and yang release. Couple that with his large chakra reserve, he has a huge toolset and the means to spam it.

Late for replies, so sorry. And naah, totsuka always has had its limitations. Lmao, if it would have been able to cut through anything, itachi would have beeen at top. Blade strikes can be stopped by blade strikes and for sealing, it directly needs contact with person. And as for FBS, i don't think it can cut through it considering its humongous size and how we compared in other thread. Personally, itachi would be able to defeat sasuke with EMS vs kabuto, but sasuke with EMS vs obito, i find it hard.
Yep, ht invisible summoning (Chamaleon- was talking abt it). And nope,it is visible to sasuke due to sharingan....DO u remember obito using sharingan for the first time and able to see the invisible person due to chakra ? So, tht invisiblity is not gonna work on him. And yep, Nagato learned almost all + Yang....sasuke is his polar opposite with most of his ying style jutsus. EMS sasuke would be too much for nagato magnitude wise + strength wise.

Also should depend on how weaken we consider Nagato, and how much chakra he can absorb beforehand. Because Edo Nagato post chakra absorption was bordering on OP, especially the Human Path ability.

Well, i would consider Nagato who had Red hair and who fought naruto...start from there.

@Jammin @lakhan220 @Benomaru

Sage Naruto (Pain Arc) vs MS Sasuke (5 Kage Summit)

Naruto vs Sasuke (War Arc)

Adult Naruto vs Adult vs Sasuke

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 27, 2020 ---

Gaara vs Third Kazekage

Kaguya vs Momoshiki

Would elaborate on this fights later but personally for me
1-Sage Naruto takes it
2-Naruto easily as we even saw final battle.
3-Adult Naruto vs Adult sasuke would most likely be a tie since both's skills have advanced to a complete new level (Talking abt naruto and sasuke from THE LAST)
4-Gaara most likely. Wits + Versatility.

Kaguya any day. naruto who was injured + half chakra stolen was still kicking momo's butt who had fused with kinshiki and we know naruto of boruto is not the strongest since his prime was kinda during and after THE LAST movie.
Basically, Naruto and sasuke were not able to do a thing when they were at their very best against tht monster kaguya.

Alright how bout this one
@MUIMadara @Jammin @Rikudou King @lakhan220

Jiraiya vs. Itachi

Also, @Jammin you said you were a Narsaku shipper, how did you feel about Sakura not destroying Madara rinnegan?

I would take it as depending on situations as Itachi's sussano can be countered in sage mode physically and totsuka blade can also be stopped through raw strength of sage mode since u can literally throw arnd summonings huge as chief toad arnd easily. Itachi's Amaterasu was sealed by jiraiya before. The totsuka's sealing - he has to avoid it. Sage mode also gives the invisible attacks due to nature without actually touching him.
On other hand itachi's Tsukoyomi is a thing to be feared with and can give the opening needed too. So, basically, it comes down to how well their experience can be utilized. Since if it comes to experience, jiraiya was also kinda jack of all trades too.
Fire style countered with Water style. or fire style itself.
+ Would like to take durability factor too since jiraiya in his old age fought 6 pains whose powers were unknown to him and basically in a prolonged battle was able to take one of pains , figure out his abilities and continue fighting for quite a time. So, the durability factor goes to jiraiya.

Tht is why i would slightly give jiraiya an edge there too due to his ability to fight prolonged battle. But itachi also has last resort as izanagi in him, but then again jiraiya also knows death seal by minato too, so we cannot rule out double deaths too.

Itachi. Don't see Jiraya doing anything against his Susanoo

Hmm, sussano tht itachi used against kabuto was similar in size of summonings and naruto was throwing arnd summonings, so physical damage can be done in Sage mode. + added few scenarios above.

@lakhan220 @Jammin

Tobirama vs Hirzuen and why you think that.

Juubito vs Sage Madara

Roshi vs Han

Hagoromo vs Naruto

What's the best tailed beast?

All of Naruto vs Jiren and Broly.

If it is prime hiruzen, i would pick him due to his versatility with techs + long experience too.Then, tobirama has advamtage due to him not hesitating to take w/e measures needed. AT best, double deaths by Death god seal, else tobi might take it with just cut above hiruzen.
let's not forget old jiji fought almost 25-30% Tobi + Hashi + Oorochi alone there.

Sage madara since he could use it to link to juubito and make it tug of war for tailed beast chakra....If not tug of war and literal fight of strengths , then juubito. And if juubito does not have rinnegan, then sage madara might stand a bit of chance with limbo, but tht's all. Basically, it will lead down to tug of war for bijuu chakras.

Don't know much of han except his physical boost, so i will go with roshi due to having the lava release

Is tht even a match ? Hagoromo would take it any day....Hagoromo's sussano itself was size of JUUBI, followed by indra and then madara, sasuke etc.

9 tails

Jiren and broly from DBS ? Lmao, DBS is multiuniverse levels. easily them

@MUIMadara @Jammin @lakhan220 @Rikudou King

Curious what to do you guys think of the Indra and Ashura reincarnation. Indra was the genius and Ashura was the one who rallied people.

And yet Hashirama was a genius who Madara couldn't surpass and was a step behind.

Naruto obviously had issues, but Sasuke wasn't really a prodigy either? He was top of his class, but wasn't what the academy saw in Minato, Itachi, and Kakashi

Would not call hashi genius since at best, u can say his fighting abilities were ingenius/good battle sense during situations. Other than tht, the administration, the ability to plan, the analysis of future based in current scenarios , all of tht was what madara could do along with being almost equal with hashi in battle. SO, just bar the fighting ability, madara was almost ahead in every other aspects like deduction, strategies, etc just like indra

So is case with naruto & sasuke too as parallels of hashi and maddy, indra and ashura....only difference is 2 opposite sides decided to cooperate.
Indra was too pragmatic/ realist, ashura was too optimist. What was needed was blend of both of qualities which is combo of naruto + Sasuke.

And as for prodigy ,Minato is the only one whose stats surpassed itachi's who passed early. Sasuke was prodigy kinda not on levels of itachi or minato , but was a bit of blend of intelligent + brash, arrogant + even hard worker too(Not like Naruto).

@Rikudou King @Benomaru @lakhan220 @Benomaru

Ok, here's a couple I see debates happen.

Itachi vs Pain
Kakashi (No Susasnoo) vs Kisame
Kakuzu vs Hidan
Tobirama vs Minato

Also, @Benomaru, why Third Kazekage over Gaara?

I would like to say draw since
1- He would not battle pain without knowing his abilities.
2- He has izanagi + izanami + tsukoyomi...all others will be countered by Tendo and others
3- Sussano can be pushed aside hard too but still totsuka sealing advantage
Now for pain
1- no ninjutsu works, he can use all elemental ninjutsus
2-Can pull out souls, use shinra tensei, chibaku tensei etc.
3-Close CQC abilities too.

Now, would be the case of how and who gets better of who. Btw, after fighting 6 pains, due to low stamina, itachi would never fight nagato since he can't figure out where he is without sensory abilities . And nagato with all his puppets gone (rods removed), he would have to use or bring out new one and meanwhile, itachi won't be waiting for him.
But tbh, due to not having main body affected of nagato, i would like to give him tht slight advantage and say PAIN would win

Kisame any day since kakashi's MS OP ability is slow to use without kurama's chakra and limited chakra , which is disadvantage against kisame. Also, he cannot indulge in copying jutsus battle since kisame is basically a beast with chakra, so even tht would be against kakashi. kakashi 's Earth style can buy him time , but tht's all. Unless kakashi figures out way to separate samehada + even injure kisame fatally with tools, it is impossible to defeat him for kisame.....and not like everything will go as kakashi wants xDDD...best option is kakashi run away fooling kisame with clone.

Kakuzu vs hidan - no contest, since kakuzu can't kill hidan and hidan cant harm kakuzu when he is serious

Minato due to his improved FTG , speed, reflexes, ability to act, Senjutsu a bit etc. Now, if we use Edo minato or minato just before death who had absorbed half kyuubi and before he used death GOD seal, then minato has a lot of advantage too. Also as far s elementals are concerned, databooks say, minato had 3 elements mastered. So, minato.

Itachi vs Pain: Itachi can't spam Amaterasu liks EMS Sasuke could as we discussed before, but I'll still go with itachi. Lakhan says genjutsu would work, so Itachi could control the fight that way. I do wonder how the yata mirror would react to shinra tensei.

Kakashi v. Kisame: We're not talking about double MS right? If so, I would take Kisame, tailed beast chakra, samehada, and took down Bee. I don't think he can kamui him especially if Kisame changes surroundings to water.

Kakuzu v. Hidan: Kakuzu, though technically Hidan wouldn't be dead. Kakuzu basically has four lives, so even if one affected by the ritual, the other three gang up on him.

Tobirama v. Minato: I go with Tobirama if Minato doesn't have KCM.

Why third kazekage? I really hate going by other's statements and we haven't even seen the third kazekage. It's really just how hyped up iron sand was.

Yep, genjutsu works on pains. But he would need to isolate tht pain immediately or chances are other pain may pull him out of it.

Alright guys who do you prefer:

Masked Obito or Madara

I'm not talking who's stronger, lol. But as a character, what version did you prefer.

Don't kill me, but I prefer masked Obito.

I would like maddy due to my obvious bias . But performance wise/objectively , OBITO takes it due to his brilliance in executing it.

Obito deserves an Oscar for his performance as Madara. He was really good.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 28, 2020 ---

Thought I'd comment on this one, actually. Virtually all answers settled for Itachi, but I'm not too sure about that. A good part of the outcome of the battle depends on how well Itachi knows the abilities of each Pain and the Rinnegan.
Assuming they started off with no information on each-other, I'd go for Pain winning more often than not. Amaterasu can be countered either through absorption or repulsion, and Itachi surely does not have the stamina to spam a Tsukuyomi for all six. Besides, it is not like the Pains feel pain (heh) or, arguably, mental trauma, so I'm not sure how effective that'd be. Unless it is directly transmitted to Nagato of course, but I'm not so sure as to how that'd work as he shares the vision of all six.
Hand-to-hand combat would be nigh impossible for the Uchiha, and with that, it comes down to the Susano'o.
Now, the drawbacks of it: Itachi cannot keep it going for long enough to effectively clear all Pains. The Totsuka blade will be unable to reach Tendo due to Shinra Tensei, and the five second gap can be bridged by the summoned creatures (especially that annoying hound), and its energy could be potentially absorbed by the Preta path.
And ultimately, a Chibaku Tensei is very problematic - a Rasenshuriken, Bijuudama, and Yasaka Magatama combo managed to destroy a planetary devastation in its early stages, but it's hard to believe only a Susano'o would be sufficient.

Yep, tht is quite astute analysis. Part of it depends on sequence. If he manages to figure out abilities , which he will as kakashi too figured out quite fast. And in the time gap of 5 seconds of tendo, he take should take out naraka path and then he can take out others rather easily. The only one problem would be tendo for him and chibaku tensei, which i can think he can escape with momentary genjutsu usage or izanagi . Else he can let it complete and lit the fire from inside the path and without it becoming visible, soften it and come out.
But at the end of the day like i said above, nagato would lose just chakra and his puppets, but itachi would be suffering injuries to his body. So, it would still be nagato's win

Only reason why I took Itachi is genjutsu. At first I didn't think genjutsu would work when discussing EMS Sasuke vs. Pain. But Lakhan provided a source or argument for it. But without it or it's not effective as you said, then yeah the pains would be too much too handle with limited MS use.

Curious how yata mirror reacts to shinra tensei. Shinra tensei isn't a nature transformation

Shinra tensei can be countered perhaps by yata mirror as in use it as just shield even if it does not reflect, it can act as shield and negate out the effect. If the magnitude used is as on konoha, then, naah, it won't work.....Lmao, Itachi would just hide himself underground if pain uses tht magnitude attack.

In the entire battle? Very, I'd say. It is a counter to most of what Itachi has to offer.
In the context of pushing Susano'o away, not much, I guess. Unless it's on the scale of the one that leveled Konoha, but that's not very beneficial in this case. Chibaku Tensei is much better.


Genjutsu certainly does work, as Jiraya used it against 3 paths at a time, but I'd say that Rinnegan's vision share acts like multiple monitors, where falling under genjutsu only causes one out of the six "monitors" to go unresponsive. If it did anything to Nagato directly, the latter wouldn't have retaliated immediately with a fourth path when the three were caught in an illusion and killed by Jiraiya.

Yep, after using genjutsu on one, he has to isolate others as i said above. + Itachi can use genjutsu with his fingers + normal sharingan too very easily without much preparation as required by frogs. But isolation is must as putting multiple / all and controlling all is almost impossible..at best, he can go with 3 simultaneous genjutsus.

I mean, the point of it is to cause mental instability to the victim, so I'm not sure the source, be it sound or vision, matters in this context.
As for using regular Sharingan genjutsu, I'd probably say it's not powerful enough to do anything long-lasting to Pain. My memory is rusty though, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong here.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 28, 2020 ---

I don't see Yata and Susano'o doing anything against Chibaku Tensei. I'm also unsure if Bansho Tenin can be used to simply pull Itachi out of the Susano'o, but let's assume not for now.
Besides, Pain doesn't even need to overpower Susano'o - just let Itachi run out of steam by spamming animals, causing distractions, and preventing death of Deva or Preta.

Yep, not lasting effects, but few moments paralysis enough to destroy his body

Well there's no information so Pain wouldn't know that Itachi would run out of steam fast. For chibaku Tensi, wasn't 8 tails breaking out of it with raw strength? And after Minato fixed the seal, there was just a large hole and it started to crumble. I feel Itachi's full body susano can replicate that. Chibaku would be pointless here tho (imo).

Yep, he just needs to keep on using sussano unti chibaku's form is complete, after which releasing it will surely deform the structure and he can use amaterasu to soften things arnd......a bit of long process , but he can get out of it.
Also like u r suggesting....if nagato intends and form structures to seal Sussano/kyuubi(8tails) as u saw, once tht part is gone, structure itself deforms and starts to break...perfect for itachi to keep sussano and then once it is formed , release it destabilizing the structure and cause its crumble.

A perfect Susano'o is at the level of a tailed beast; Itachi's Susano'o is much weaker in terms of raw power.
Also, you have to realize that was a Chibaku Tensei after Nagato had expended most of his chakra by destroying Konoha and fighting multiple opponents, and yet, when the eight-tailed Kurama was breaking out of it, he was planning to continue making the Chibaku Tensei bigger.

As for the information, it's not really necessary - Pain's fighting style depends on protecting Deva no matter what, and using the other ones as support. He'd notice Itachi cannot keep it going for much ultimately.

he doesn't need power tbh, just use it to destabilise structure later on after the jtsu is completed and cause its automatic disintegration like it happened once 8 tails was gone. He does not need tht high magnitude power too to destroy it .

Yep exactly




Yeah, I doubt Itachi just let's him go sage. Okay how bout this, Jiraiya has both frogs and goes sage mode. So Itachi vs, Sage Jiraiya is match conditions

Well, jiraiya is no idiot either. he only needs to go sage when facing sussano and itachi won't use it as it would wear him out until jiraiya goes sage mode . And drawing out battle is also not in favor of itachi too.
Like if jiraiya trick itachi to go sussano , he can still run arnd in his summonings. He can use frog to even buy him time to hold down sussano for a bit. Jiraiya has performed high level infiltrations and is quite capable to find out the opening. In case of pain, it was multiple opponents with diff powers and thus he took longer to bide his time , not with itachi since he won't use clones and divide his chakra tht easily against higher chakra reserves & more experienced person.
But like why do u even want to send him sage mode immediately...he can hang out with sussano with summonings and oodama rasengan and such. The only danger to him is tsukoyomi genjutsu & it is only one time thing at best. And as to how Sasuke had made preparations, after seeing itachi do it twice in village, don't think jiraiya is naive to not even have a bit of counter to tht if tht happens. Let's not forget he can also use sealing jutsus a bit which he can make it conditional in case of scenarios...and then the toad stomach summonings and such.....he has vast versatility of jutsus. . If not for rinnegan absorbing abilities, jiji was quite OP.

have elaborated a bit on tht very above.

 

[Ramen]

@lakhan220 I'm about to sleep so I won't respond right now but It's good to see you back man.

 

[Orion]

@lakhan220 good to see you back

Unfortunately, due to lateness your arguments have lost points, no matter how valid they are. It's the name of the game,

 

[lakhan220]

@lakhan220 good to see you back

Unfortunately, due to lateness your arguments have lost points, no matter how valid they are. It's the name of the game,

Lmao, more than points. it is fun tht still a bit of interest is shown by few people in discussions. By now, i thought it would have gone into relics with noone interested at all.Thanks man

@lakhan220 I'm about to sleep so I won't respond right now but It's good to see you back man.

NP at all. Thanks.