One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Aliocha]

Roger >> Mihawk>= Shanks

it's very simple, I don't understand what all the fuss is about

 

[Pirate Queen]

So you are going to use the fact that Mihawk was a shichibukai to discredit him? Blackbeard was a schichibukai too now is considered a yonko. Or do you think that Mihawk is as strong as moria or buggy?

The only difference is that you guys cant possibly consider the possibility that Shanks could be weaker than someone (even if just by a little) so you will try to find all sorts of excuses and reasons to put Mihawk lower when neither him or mihawk have any concrete feats.

Some go as far as saying that Shanks is not a swordsman just so it could fit their headcanons.
What if Mihawk is stronger than Shanks? it doesn't take anything away from the yonko he is still a top tier fighter in his verse...

Mihawk was Shanks rival but is the only one who got the world strongest swordsman title at the end of their many duels.
Finally, there is a reason why Zoro's objective is Mihawk and not Shanks.

I personally wouldn't care if Mihawk was stronger than Shanks... I seriously wouldnt. My sister got me into One Piece when I was 12 years old. The first episode I saw was Mihawk splitting a Galleon Class Pirate ship. The sound and the fact that it took some a few seconds to realize what even happened as they fell into the sea. Ot was perhaps the greatest introduction on a swordsman of any anime I had ever seen.... and I'm a huge fan of bleach where there was nothing but swordsmen. I put Mihawks introduction in the same vein as Yamamoto revealing Ryuujin Jaka. It was absolutely epic.

I don't think Mihawk being a stronger takes away from Shanks in the slightest. Why would it? Shanks isn't seeking to be the strongest in the first place. He is more than content to sail the seas and party, keeping the peace. How Mihawk being stronger than him affects him in any way.

The issue is, if your going to put Mihawk over Shanks your going to be filled becUse it doesn't add up.

Mihawk stopped fighting Shanks YEARS before he became a Yonko. Mihawk never fought Shanks when he had a title that mattered nor do we know when Mihawk had the title or if he had it at the time of the duels. But what isn't acceptable is saying Mihawk is still stronger that Shanks when he didnt fight Shanks while Shanks rose to power as a Yonko. Shanks certainly didnt LOSE power, in fact the opposite is implied.

Mihawk isn't shown to be respected or renowned by anyone other than fodder. That fact that Crocodile and Mr. 1who got fucked by rookies and thought he could even entertain Mihawk for a second speaks to this. In fact, when speaking of pirates capable of stopping Blackbeard, Mihawk wasn't mentioned.

Mihawk, unlike every other top tier, hasn't been seen clashing with anyother top tier. Shanks clashed with Whitebeard, clashed with Akainu, had a skirmish with Kaido. In turn Mihawk's best fight is with Vista, which leads to my next point.

Mihawk was held up by Vista and instead of Vista swordsmanship being respected Mihawk fans go into a rage claiming Mihawk wasnt serious despite it being known Vistas swordsmanship is top tier and able to compete with Mihawk.


Now while none of these say Mihawk is weaker than Shanks. It does call into question his hierarchy among top tiers, of which Shanks has undoubtably proven amongst.

Shanks being a swordsman doesnt matter because Mihawk refuses to fight him. Shanks could be shown to be 10x stronger (this is all hypothetical) than Shanks but it doesnt matter because Mihawk won't fight him. Mihawk certainly doesnt know Shanks current power level and to state otherwise is headcanon.

And none of this matters anymore because it will never be relevant to the story and they now appear to be more allies than adversary.

But even explaining all this or not putting him above Whitebeard and Roger you are labeled a Mihawk hater lol

 

[afromarco005]

I personally wouldn't care if Mihawk was stronger than Shanks... I seriously wouldnt. My sister got me into One Piece when I was 12 years old. The first episode I saw was Mihawk splitting a Galleon Class Pirate ship. The sound and the fact that it took some a few seconds to realize what even happened as they fell into the sea. Ot was perhaps the greatest introduction on a swordsman of any anime I had ever seen.... and I'm a huge fan of bleach where there was nothing but swordsmen. I put Mihawks introduction in the same vein as Yamamoto revealing Ryuujin Jaka. It was absolutely epic.

I don't think Mihawk being a stronger takes away from Shanks in the slightest. Why would it? Shanks isn't seeking to be the strongest in the first place. He is more than content to sail the seas and party, keeping the peace. How Mihawk being stronger than him affects him in any way.

The issue is, if your going to put Mihawk over Shanks your going to be filled becUse it doesn't add up.

Mihawk stopped fighting Shanks YEARS before he became a Yonko. Mihawk never fought Shanks when he had a title that mattered nor do we know when Mihawk had the title or if he had it at the time of the duels. But what isn't acceptable is saying Mihawk is still stronger that Shanks when he didnt fight Shanks while Shanks rose to power as a Yonko. Shanks certainly didnt LOSE power, in fact the opposite is implied.

Mihawk isn't shown to be respected or renowned by anyone other than fodder. That fact that Crocodile and Mr. 1who got fucked by rookies and thought he could even entertain Mihawk for a second speaks to this. In fact, when speaking of pirates capable of stopping Blackbeard, Mihawk wasn't mentioned.

Mihawk, unlike every other top tier, hasn't been seen clashing with anyother top tier. Shanks clashed with Whitebeard, clashed with Akainu, had a skirmish with Kaido. In turn Mihawk's best fight is with Vista, which leads to my next point.

Mihawk was held up by Vista and instead of Vista swordsmanship being respected Mihawk fans go into a rage claiming Mihawk wasnt serious despite it being known Vistas swordsmanship is top tier and able to compete with Mihawk.


Now while none of these say Mihawk is weaker than Shanks. It does call into question his hierarchy among top tiers, of which Shanks has undoubtably proven amongst.

Shanks being a swordsman doesnt matter because Mihawk refuses to fight him. Shanks could be shown to be 10x stronger (this is all hypothetical) than Shanks but it doesnt matter because Mihawk won't fight him. Mihawk certainly doesnt know Shanks current power level and to state otherwise is headcanon.

And none of this matters anymore because it will never be relevant to the story and they now appear to be more allies than adversary.

But even explaining all this or not putting him above Whitebeard and Roger you are labeled a Mihawk hater lol

I understand your points even if I don't agree with you.

I say we will know when Mihawk or shanks gets a fight in the manga we will see where they stand until then its all speculation.

(or if we get a flashback of their duels even if thats wishful thinking)

 

[M3J]

"stop overhyping the guy who is considered one of the 4 strongest pirates".

The only people overhyping someone are those trying to put a warlord on the level of the Yonko. Mihawk measures his distance in strength from WB from 200 yards away, Shanks casually strolls on his ship alone, knocks out his men, and clashes with him without breaking a sweat.

It's sad. I like Mihawk. Love Zoro. But the fanboys of these guys are more and more absurd trying to place them above everyone else.

How is that related though? Mihawk was fighting in a war whereas Shanks wanted to talk to Whitebeard, and both seemed friendly enough. Weird logic.

I'm not defending either, just wondering at this logic when Mihawk had no problem strolling into Shanks' hideout, especially to talk about Luffy if I recall correctly.

 

[Pirate Queen]

How is that related though? Mihawk was fighting in a war whereas Shanks wanted to talk to Whitebeard, and both seemed friendly enough. Weird logic.

I'm not defending either, just wondering at this logic when Mihawk had no problem strolling into Shanks' hideout, especially to talk about Luffy if I recall correctly.

If Mihawk had any sort of killing intent, he would have been up against a Yonko and his crew, sure death for Mihawk. It was clear Mihawk and Shanks drank with eachother from time to time. Shanks didn't act as if he hadn't seen Mihawk in 6 years. In fact...

Mihawk knew of Luffy so the two had to have spoken within the last few years.

Whereas Shanks began breaking the Moby Dick with his haki the second he boarded. Clearly showing a threatening position. Its was WB's presence and the fact that they KNEW Shanks was trying to make contact to talk, not fight that caused things not to escalate.

Another note.... the World Government doesn't go on high alert when the Shanks and Mihawk meet, whereas the World Government goes on high alert when Shanks meets with Whitebeard.

 

[Brandish μ]

Mihawk and Shanks are about the same in PL terms, imo. Without any serious feats from either, you've gotta bank Shanks since his title is better.

The only people overhyping someone are those trying to put a warlord on the level of the Yonko. Mihawk measures his distance in strength from WB from 200 yards away, Shanks casually strolls on his ship alone, knocks out his men, and clashes with him without breaking a sweat.

Yes I can see that logic as good reason for Shanks > Mihawk. I wouldn't argue against it as it doesn't disturb my alignment much.

However, I don't think either of those instances determine combat ability as much as they do status. I'll explain how I think about it..

Mihawk firing a slash at WB is stopped by Jozu. In combat terms, Mihawk can slash effectively enough at that distance that Jozu uses his DF to deflect; demonstrating Mihawk's offence and Jozu's defence. NOW, I don't think that's important at all. What's important there is a solo warlord like Mihawk, who had famous duels with Shanks, was not even able to touch WB because he has considerably strong fellows in his crew like Jozu. It shows that Yonkou have such great power on top of their own singular power. In the same arc, Mihawk notes how dangerous Luffy is because his personality inspires others.

When Shanks approaches WB nobody gets in his road. Shanks has a crew who can throw down with the best at any time. It's a different situation. Shanks also displays a level of 'offence' with his Kings Haki, but no one stops him (WB asks him to knock it off, iirc). Sure, a slash is more malicious than Kings Haki, but Shanks is a Yonkou, his individual power is among the best, but he's not a one man unit, he needs to be respected.

Mihawk is simply, a lone wolf. And no matter how strong he is he wouldn't literally be able to touch WB if he went all out against the WB Pirates.

It's sad. I like Mihawk. Love Zoro. But the fanboys of these guys are more and more absurd trying to place them above everyone else.

Yes, fanboys, you make it very hard for yourself to remain credible in a thread like this. Power Level discussions come of bias in everyone's comments, but when the bias is completely at odds with canon portrayal and feats, causing everyone to turn on you, that's when you need to take a bath and rethink.

I don't want to make this a topic, but it seems this needs to be said every once in a while...

 

[M3J]

If Mihawk had any sort of killing intent, he would have been up against a Yonko and his crew, sure death for Mihawk. It was clear Mihawk and Shanks drank with eachother from time to time. Shanks didn't act as if he hadn't seen Mihawk in 6 years. In fact...

Mihawk knew of Luffy so the two had to have spoken within the last few years.

Whereas Shanks began breaking the Moby Dick with his haki the second he boarded. Clearly showing a threatening position. Its was WB's presence and the fact that they KNEW Shanks was trying to make contact to talk, not fight that caused things not to escalate.

Another note.... the World Government doesn't go on high alert when the Shanks and Mihawk meet, whereas the World Government goes on high alert when Shanks meets with Whitebeard.

Would he, or would Shanks have told his crew to back off and let him handle it on his own? Shanks and Whitebeard also seemed to drink occasionally as well, or at least that's the implication. Plus they had respect for each other as well. Shanks was probably using haki on the ship as a banter or for fun with Whitebeard.

Mihawk is a lone swordsman with no apparent aspiration other than to be the best swordsman whereas Whitebeard was an Emperor who had the power to destroy the world. The Marines probably feared two Emperors coming together and possibly creating another Rocks crew.

 

[nik87]

Roger >> Mihawk>= Shanks

it's very simple, I don't understand what all the fuss is about

Did Roger have a black blade like Mihawk?
The two are different generations, there is no direct way to compare them but Yoru speaks in Mihawk's favor.

@afromarco005 Vista may have a swordsmanship good enough to match Mihawk but to beat Mihawk you will need a lot more than that.
Zoro's swordsmanship hasn't changed one bit, his improvements came in haki area and physical strength.

 

[nik87]

Let's deal with this title issue once and for all...
Let's say that the 3 characters who received the world's strongest titles are the 3 strongest characters in the verse: Kaido>WB>Mihawk.

If Mihawk really is the 3rd strongest character, which title should he have?

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

EoS zoro > mihawk > pretimeskip zoro > gold roger

 

[Fox666]

Zoro's swordsmanship hasn't changed one bit

Of course it did, Zoro has always been improving his skills, like any of the Strawhats

He didn't use Haki to cut that ship at Shabondy, did he? That's one feat above what he could do before the timeskip

Or cutting that house in half with a hand knife

 

[Brandish μ]

It's absurd to think Shanks, Mihawk or Zoro could outfight Roger.

Of course it did, Zoro has always been improving his skills, like any of the Strawhats

Yea, I've kinda dismissed this when counting Zoro's improvement thanks to Mihawk's training. He's been doing those ranged slashes a lot more post-skip. Wondering if this is by virtue of becoming stronger or whether it's a technical aspect Mihawk has honed; or both.

 

[nik87]

Of course it did, Zoro has always been improving his skills, like any of the Strawhats
He didn't use Haki to cut that ship at Shabondy, did he? That's one feat above what he could do before the timeskip
Or cutting that house in half with a hand knife

His swordsmanship is the same, he added haki and physical strength to it.

It's absurd to think Shanks, Mihawk or Zoro could outfight Roger.

Why? He isnt some untouchable power level. He couldnt even blacked his sword.

 

[Brandish μ]

Why? He isnt some untouchable power level. He couldnt even blacked his sword.

He is untouchable for the likes of Shanks, Mihawk and Zoro.

 

[nik87]

He is untouchable for the likes of Shanks, Mihawk and Zoro.

Why? Shanks is someone who lives like his idol Roger, he basically represents what Roger was minus the PK thing.
Mihawk is someone above Shanks, an individual who received WSx title and sits atop all swordsmen expecting a challenge. Only Kokuto user aside sword god.
Zoro is someone who will surpass both of them and any swordsman ever. Roger was a swordsman. He didnt have divine powers which others cant obtain...

 

[Brandish μ]

Why? Shanks is someone who lives like his idol Roger, he basically represents what Roger was minus the PK thing.
Mihawk is someone above Shanks, an individual who received WSx title and sits atop all swordsmen expecting a challenge. Only Kokuto user aside sword god.
Zoro is someone who will surpass both of them and any swordsman ever. Roger was a swordsman. He didnt have divine powers which others cant obtain...

Mihawk knows where he stands, iirc, he told Luffy PK > WSS.

I do believe Zoro will be the greatest of all time (he always will be in my eyes), but when it comes to overall power, he'll never contest the PK level, like WB/Shiki did with Roger.

Ofc I'm open to such a development where Sword God Zoro is actually comparable to Roger, but I find Zoro is comparable to Rayleigh. If Luffy suprasses Roger, Zoro will surpass Rayleigh similarly. OR, if indeed the strength of the PK really isn't all that, and Mihawk could beat Roger in a duel, then by all means I'll agree. However the manga would need to be singing a different tune to entertain this imho.

 

[nik87]

Mihawk knows where he stands, iirc, he told Luffy PK > WSS.

I do believe Zoro will be the greatest of all time (he always will be in my eyes), but when it comes to overall power, he'll never contest the PK level, like WB/Shiki did with Roger.

Ofc I'm open to such a development where Sword God Zoro is actually comparable to Roger, but I find Zoro is comparable to Rayleigh. If Luffy suprasses Roger, Zoro will surpass Rayleigh similarly. OR, if indeed the strength of the PK really isn't all that, and Mihawk could beat Roger in a duel, then by all means I'll agree. However the manga would need to be singing a different tune to entertain this imho.

He said PK path is tougher than beating him. That is correct for many reasons and being stronger than Mihawk is not one of them.
Becoming strong yourself to beat Mihawk is one thing but gathering crew capable to stand the challenges of Grand line, gathering poneglyphs and decyphering them, navigating to Raftel is a tougher path. Beating Mihawk is "easier" than becoming PK. Not strength related.

When it comes to the overall power of an individual, no power was excluded when it comes to being WSS, everything that you can use is allowed.
If with overall power you mean the crew and allies, sure, nobody alone is match for that but individual power is not. WB was at worst equal to Roger, he wasnt below him just because he had no interest in finding a treasure. Plus he had the power to destroy the world which Roger didnt. WB>=Roger.

Rayleigh was never a WSS, no other captain had a WSS under him, Strawhats are unique in that way. I cant see Luffy surpassing Roger without a weapon. Zoro is not limited to Rayleigh, he is not even limited to Mihawk who is above Rayleigh, he wants to be the best ever and nothing is excluded, not even weird powers like Asura.

Yeah, it is too bad we dont have a direct comparison between Mihawk and Roger but I hope manga will touch on that eventually, who was more powerful. The new generation seems to be greater than the old one. If Blackbeard incorporates his fist weapon he can surpass Whitebeard but seeing how he is set up for Luffy, I doubt he will remember that he has a weapon.

 

[Fox666]

He said PK path is tougher than beating him. That is correct for many reasons and being stronger than Mihawk is not one of them.

In context, I think Mihawk meant that becoming Pirate King means surpassing him and more.

And is that not accurate? On theory, the Pirate King will compete against Whitebeard or Kaido, who are stronger than Mihawk.

 

[nik87]

In context, I think Mihawk meant that becoming Pirate King means surpassing him and more.
And is that not accurate? On theory, the Pirate King will compete against Whitebeard or Kaido, who are stronger than Mihawk.

Isnt Zoro aiming to be stronger than Mihawk as well?
Also, Kaido will fall from team effort while WB will never be in Luffy's way so...

 

[Pirate Queen]

Having a black blade doesn't guarantee you being stronger than anyone to get a black blade you have to be dedicated to the way of the sword. Other swordsman are not as swords focused as Mihawk/Zoro/Ryuma

Its headcanon to say Mihawk or Zoro is strong just because they have a black blade and one doesnt.

Roger doesn't have a black blade but Mihawk does so Mihawk is stronger is such bad analysis. At best Black blades are a haki related feat... 0 to do with strength of a character until stated otherwise.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 12, 2020 ---

In context, I think Mihawk meant that becoming Pirate King means surpassing him and more.

And is that not accurate? On theory, the Pirate King will compete against Whitebeard or Kaido, who are stronger than Mihawk.

Exactly to all of this.