One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Luffy smashed its head with the elephant gun, Zoro cut it multiple times mid-air.
I don't know why you are assuming Pica has some God-tier defense. After the time-skip it's not such of a big feat.

How is any of that helping Vergo against a mountain?
It is god tier defense since KP which is highest hyped move in the verse cant do anything to it, just like Barrier.
Unless you cut him off from the ground you can hammer on it 24/7 and do nothing...

Wadatsumi is only full of air when he inhales it. Besides, he's strong enough to fight the Kraken, carry Noah on his back, etc.

Single g3 took out cracken and it would take out Wada too.
Wadatsumi carried Noah on his back? When and where?

 

[Shasha23]

If Vergo almost breaks Sanji's legs, who can toss Wadatsumi around with his kicks, I assume Vergo could do it too.

So by that logic, since Luffy can knock Kaido out of his dragon form Sanji can do it too?

 

[Fox666]

How is any of that helping Vergo against a mountain?
It is god tier defense since KP which is highest hyped move in the verse cant do anything to it, just like Barrier.
Unless you cut him off from the ground you can hammer on it 24/7 and do nothing...

The King Punch reduced the entire top of Pica's statue to tiny pieces.

Had Elizabello used it before, he would have pulverized the entire statue and knocked down Pica within it. But he couldn't do it because the pieces would fall over King Riku and the others.

Bartolomeo barrier has a limited radius, that's why he couldn't protect everyone from Pica at that time.

Single g3 took out cracken and it would take out Wada too.

Elephant gun also destroyed the head of Pica's statue.

Wasn't you trying to prove that Wadatsumi couldn't compare with Pica? You just provided an example of how they are not far off.

Wadatsumi carried Noah on his back? When and where?

Sorry, it was the Flying Dutchman.

The point still stands that Wadatsumi is not just "full of air", and is physically strong even for his size.

Vergo has no way of beating Pica if Pica uses his devil fruit, and since he fights all the time with his ability he is clearly stronger than Vergo, by feat shown its more like this: Pica>Vergo>Diamante>Trebol.

IMHO the Dressrosa arc made it more than clear that the 3 executives from the Donquixote Pirates were equals. Even their former bounties is identical.

So by that logic, since Luffy can knock Kaido out of his dragon form Sanji can do it too?

I really fail to see the correlation there.

However, Kaido was super drunk and it probably wouldn't take much to make him fall from the skies. I wouldn't be surprised if anyone who can jump knock down a good sized Sea King could do it.

--- Double Post Merged, May 2, 2020, Original Post Date: May 2, 2020 ---

If he can break one hand coming at his, he should feel lucky because that took ice-continent splitter Dragon nail and semi charged King's punch to do and it recovered basically instantly the moment Pica wanted it to regenerate...

Since you mentioned the Chinjao family nail technique...

When Sai used the technique, he split the plateau in half, which was around the size of Pica's statue. Is that not proof that Chinjao or Sai could knock down Pica's statue with a single blow?

Even Zoro, who defeated Pica, says he would not want the Chinjao family as his enemy, after witnessing the destruction caused by Sai's attack:

Is that not enough proof that Pica would be easily defeated by Chinjao or Sai?

 

[nik87]

The King Punch reduced the entire top of Pica's statue to tiny pieces.
Had Elizabello used it before, he would have pulverized the entire statue and knocked down Pica within it. But he couldn't do it because the pieces would fall over King Riku and the others.
Bartolomeo barrier has a limited radius, that's why he couldn't protect everyone from Pica at that time.

Nope. While the fully charged KP can destroy the entire golem, it is still ineffective, Zoro already told it to "king of some country".
Destroying the golem =/= beating Pica. The golem would just regenerate in matter of seconds...
The reason why I brought up Barrier is because Pica's ability is almost as broken as Bartolomeo's. It isnt literally indestructible like Barrier but basically does that same thing, more or less. It effectively protects the user due to the huge mass and ability to regenerate.

Elephant gun also destroyed the head of Pica's statue.
Wasn't you trying to prove that Wadatsumi couldn't compare with Pica? You just provided an example of how they are not far off.

I didnt provide such example. While single G3 can take out Wadatsumi for good it didnt do anything to Golem with Grizzly Magnum. Breaking the head off didnt stop the golem, it regenerated and moved on like nothing happened.

Sorry, it was the Flying Dutchman.
The point still stands that Wadatsumi is not just "full of air", and is physically strong even for his size.

Remember that Wadatsumi's combat feat against Sanji and Jinbe was impersonating an air balloon. An impressive feat, I know.

Since you mentioned the Chinjao family nail technique...
When Sai used the technique, he split the plateau in half, which was around the size of Pica's statue. Is that not proof that Chinjao or Sai could knock down Pica's statue with a single blow?

No, it is actually not. Look again what Sai's kick did. It cracked a small part on the side of the Flower Hill while Pica's golem was identical to size of Flower Hill. Even if he cracked the entire hill in half, Sai and Chinjai still would be ineffective against Pica's golem...

Even Zoro, who defeated Pica, says he would not want the Chinjao family as his enemy, after witnessing the destruction caused by Sai's attack:

Zoro didnt say that anywhere. He was just impressed by it and remembered it in case they turn to be enemies. Zoro's own DC feats dwarf those of Sai and Chinjao several times over...

Is that not enough proof that Pica would be easily defeated by Chinjao or Sai?

Not in a million years lol. Fully charged KP would decimate the Golem in a single hit and still cannot defeat Pica.

 

[Fox666]

@nik87

How exactly would Pica survive this?

If you destroy the Golen he's inside of, he gets knocked out along with it. It's like a soldier inside of a tank that is destroyed.

Even Zoro at one point managed to injure Pica despite him hiding inside the golem. The only reason the battle lasted that long is because Zoro is not good with CoO. But for other characters, countering Pica's assimilation (not regeneration) would be much easier.

 

[nik87]

@nik87

How exactly would Pica survive this?

If you destroy the Golen he's inside of, he gets knocked out along with it. It's like a soldier inside of a tank that is destroyed.

Even Zoro at one point managed to injure Pica despite him hiding inside the golem. The only reason the battle lasted that long is because Zoro is not good with CoO. But for other characters, countering Pica's assimilation (not regeneration) would be much easier.

Is that looking to you like it is destroyed? Pica would be safe from KP in any of those pieces.
Zoro who takes his opponents out in one clean slice failed to do so against Pica because the huge amount of stone has weakened his slash until it hit Pica.
Actually, Zoro's CoO is just fine and no different than Luffy's, Sanji's or anyone else's... In fact he has CoO feats which make Luffy with FS look bad...
He has CoO feats against Pica where Luffy doesnt and only realizes things after Zoro tells him...
Other characters countering Pica's assimilation would be much easier? Doesnt look like that...

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Dude. Did you really just put Zoros CoO > Luffys?

 

[nik87]

Dude. Did you really just put Zoros CoO > Luffys?

There are plenty of scenes where Zoro's CoO does something while Luffy does nothing.
Not speaking of FS despite several scenes going in Zoro's favor even after Luffy got FS...

 

[Fox666]

Is that looking to you like it is destroyed? Pica would be safe from KP in any of those pieces.

That seems like a pointless discussion for me.

If you are inside of a building, and a shockwave break it into multiple pieces, you are not "safe" inside of one of these pieces.

Zoro who takes his opponents out in one clean slice failed to do so against Pica because the huge amount of stone has weakened his slash until it hit Pica.

No, Zoro failed to slash Pica before because he didn't knew where Pica was.

IMHO what you are saying makes no sense at all. Zoro can cut the statue clean from one side to another. How can his slashes be "weakened" from it?

It's clear Zoro couldn't find Pica while he was inside the statue:

Other characters countering Pica's assimilation would be much easier? Doesnt look like that...

Yes. Pica was an opponent made specifically to an annoyance for Zoro. But he was not more than a pushover, like Wadatsumi.

I don't get where you are getting that Pica is supposed to be some top-tier fighter.

 

[Takuan]

Pica was top tier during Dressrsa, let's not kid ourselves.
Pica is probably the worst Doffy executive if you render his DF useless. Put him in Alabasta and he loses against any other Executive. But in a huge stone city like Dressrosa, he dwarfs everybody else, in size and power.

 

[Shasha23]

IMHO the Dressrosa arc made it more than clear that the 3 executives from the Donquixote Pirates were equals. Even their former bounties is identical.

They were equal in that they knew Doffy the longest but not their power, your opinion does not trump manga facts and feats!

I really fail to see the correlation there.

You have been comparing apples and cabbage, I'm just pointing out to you the stupidity of such logic!
Just cause character F can do something vs character C doesn't mean then character F can do the same to character A!

Kaido was super drunk and it probably wouldn't take much to make him fall from the skies. I wouldn't be surprised if anyone who can jump knock down a good sized Sea King could do it.

Do you really think Sanji can summon as much power as G3 guttling gun? OK buddy
So Kaido is like a Sea King now to you?

 

[nik87]

That seems like a pointless discussion for me.
If you are inside of a building, and a shockwave break it into multiple pieces, you are not "safe" inside of one of these pieces.

Zoro's slash is more dangerous than a shockwave and the stone still protected him from being one-shot.
KP broke in half the two big halves that Zoro split and pushed it away, that's all KP did. Impressive considering the distance.
However, breaking the golem in couple of pieces won't defeat Pica.

No, Zoro failed to slash Pica before because he didn't knew where Pica was.
IMHO what you are saying makes no sense at all. Zoro can cut the statue clean from one side to another. How can his slashes be "weakened" from it?
It's clear Zoro couldn't find Pica while he was inside the statue:

His 1080p was weakened, it didnt go through to the other side.
Also, that same 1080p proves your claim wrong that Zoro couldnt find Pica.
Also, Luffy's hit in Golem's head proves that he was the one who couldnt find Pica while Zoro explains to him how Pica's ability works.
For someone who apparently has better CoO than Zoro he certainly didnt look better in that scene and several other scenes even after getting FS.

Yes. Pica was an opponent made specifically to an annoyance for Zoro. But he was not more than a pushover, like Wadatsumi.
I don't get where you are getting that Pica is supposed to be some top-tier fighter.

No. Zoro is the one who made Pica look easy. Fujitora and Law aside, nobody else could have defeated Pica back in DR.
His advantage is too great in that place while all others have ineffective combat styles to deal with Pica.

 

[Fox666]

You have been comparing apples and cabbage, I'm just pointing out to you the stupidity of such logic!
Just cause character F can do something vs character C doesn't mean then character F can do the same to character A!

No, I have not been comparing apples and cabbages. You are the one who brought up Luffy fighting Kaido randomly.

My logic is very simple. If Vergo kicks appear to be stronger than Sanji, because he almost broke Sanji legs, he could probably kick away the same giant that Sanji did. I think that's easy to understand.

Unless Vergo strength only works against small objects?

Do you really think Sanji can summon as much power as G3 guttling gun? OK buddy
So Kaido is like a Sea King now to you?

You seem to have completely missed the point.

Kaido was drunk. Normally Luffy would't knock down his dragon form.

--- Double Post Merged, May 2, 2020, Original Post Date: May 2, 2020 ---

His 1080p was weakened, it didnt go through to the other side.
Also, that same 1080p proves your claim wrong that Zoro couldnt find Pica.

What? Zoro bisected Pica multiple times.

Also, Luffy's hit in Golem's head proves that he was the one who couldnt find Pica while Zoro explains to him how Pica's ability works.
For someone who apparently has better CoO than Zoro he certainly didnt look better in that scene and several other scenes even after getting FS.

Luffy was only being stupid, and thinking the statue was Pica himself.

 

[Shasha23]

No, I have not been comparing apples and cabbages. You are the one who brought up Luffy fighting Kaido randomly.

So you never compare Wadatsumi to Pica then???????

My logic is very simple. If Vergo kicks appear to be stronger than Sanji, because he almost broke Sanji legs, he could probably kick away the same giant that Sanji did. I think that's easy to understand.

You started comparing Wadatsumi to Pica now i see your trying to move away from it all stealth like.

Unless Vergo strength only works against small objects?

At best Vergo's kicks were a little bit stronger than Sanji's and that's still no were near the destructive feats of Dragon Nail, Lite King Punch, Elephant Magnum or 1080p canon(and these attacks were all still useless on Pica), so stop trying to make it as if Vergo has the strength to force Pica out of his ability

You seem to have completely missed the point.

Kaido was drunk. Normally Luffy would't knock down his dragon form.

Are you still trying to pass off your speculations as facts again? when will you stop with this nonsensical logic?
Yes he was drunk and Luffy still pummeled him to the ground and forced him out of his dragon form, do you really think Sanji can do the same, i mean do really now?

 

[XXGenesis]

Too much yo Quote. But I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Doffy Executives all hold the same positions. They are not the same strength. Vergo is strongest. Pica is nxt because of DF ability. Trebol & Diamante.

Vergo has no feats of being able to destroy Pica's statue. It's a stalemate fight. Vergo will run away or stay outside of Pica's attack range with Geppo. End of Debate..lol......One piece isnt as simple as the stronger or faster guy wins. Abilities & skills matter!

Go and refresh your memories! Especially when debating. I know it's a bit annoying but others are debating with much more fresh and hindsight knowledge over just remembering.

The Gas was creeping in.
Sanji hit Vergo with a DJ, into the wall; Vergo had light blood on his lip. Vergo after that got serious and cracked Sanji's bones!!! & tried to punch his head in, which Sanji dodged...End of fight..Upper hand..Vergo

Sanji vs Vergo, there's a whole thread for it. Law SN defeated Vergo #2 in Doffy Crew mid diff..Zoro defeated #3mid-diff no damage..Sanji is not defeating Vergo! Nothing was shown in WCI. nor Wano that makes me think differently, just proves my point. The absence of Evience, IS the Evidence of absence. Lol

Best evidence Zoro > Sanji.
Is PTS track record/feats.
Starting from FI they are Even, however Zoro steadily takes the lead.

During PH Zoro cuts Dragon head off.
Was one up by Yeti Bro's(noted crew was slacking off)
Scares Monet sh*tless.
Fights back against Fujitora in dressora.
Owned Pica! No damage received.
His Power with a Senpuku knive is kool.
Clashes with Hawkins SN captain & takes 3 lives while Zoro takes light damage.
Defeated Killer with his own weapon mid-diff, damaged because of interference.
Defeats 3 ninjas part of the Oniwashu or w/e

Sanji's list of feats and record is too muddy and short on the impressive side but long in not so highlight moments.

As a fan I feel like Oda still hasnt, made up for the Vergo leg crack...Sanji hasnt owned or given us some a good brutality on anyone.

Dresssora we get a decent barrage on Doffy, but Sanji was about to die if Law didnt interfere.(hindsight Doffy Def is way to high for Sanji)

Pre WCI he goes with Capone's flow, even though Capone isnt that much of a big shot, Sanji felt he couldn't protect the others.

WCI he blocks Judge's spear & recieved damage. *more evidence why he cant beat Vergo. *poor haki

We get brief highlights of Yonji getting beat, & Niji def seemed next if Sanji wasnt stopped..*Still a feat but their PL's rise with their RS

The worst of WCI Sanji beating up weakened Luffy, who still got up after the ass kicking and fought BMP for a bit.*I'm nit picking here, but still*scew plot lol

Sanji beat Bobbin 100k fodder BMP
Sanji in manga does nothing impressive against notable BMP.

Sanji's best feat since the TS was dodging Katakuri's CoO..Very big feat, but passive.

Everyone was captured during the Wedding. & nigh useless besides Brook & Jimbei.

Blitz Oven..Great speed feat. Oven Isnt damaged by this blitz though....

Blocks Daifuku, not impreasive. Just means Sanji can block his attack this time and not get pushed back like at the wedding.

Sanji later shows up to rescue Luffy, and idk why was out of breathe and kinda exhausted or just slow; BMP weaklings were keeping up with his geppo..He had to be rescued by Germa..

Lastly we get Sanji vs P1 & a instant sneak peek at his RS. P1 gets blitzed but is mad durable and even strong. Fight left unfinished, as Sanji runs from the fight*stupid plot*

& cant remember the play by play but he dodged X-Drake's Dino tail....Like a big bulky Dino is gonna have speed feats lol. And we know Zoan users have diff modes, ex.P1..

So there you have it. Zoro just hold the better record & feats with little mishaps, or otherwise better explained mishaps..

While Sanji has a lot of mishaps, little to no brawls against noteworthy characters, nor a good win. & Best feats dont quantify to much as they are ambigious.

So no, until shown on a manga page. Sanji w/o a RS isnt capable of defeating anyone stronger than Vergo...& his max with a RS seems to be under a commander; at the mile-high executive lv.

 

[albertwv]

Most people will agree that Vergo > PH Sanji. I also believe Vergo > Pica, the only thing Pica has is his DF. Think of it like Pre TS Enel. He has a strong DF but he himself is kinda weak. PreTS Lucci would kill Enel if he could hit him with haki. Now Pica isn't that weak, someone mentioned he would lose to BQ from Alabasta. Nah Pica is NW strong even without his DF but not stronger than Vergo or Zolo. Idk how he would fare agaisnt Sanji. Haki Pica vs Dressrosa Sanji.

Who said Zolo's CoO is better than Luffy's? Oda stated himself Luffy has the best CoC, Zolo CoA and Sanji CoO among the strawhats but this was before Future Sight.
We have seen more feats of Luffy' CoO than Zolo's CoO before FS.

 

[nik87]

 

[Takuan]

Vergo has no feats of being able to destroy Pica's statue. It's a stalemate fight. Vergo will run away or stay outside of Pica's attack range with Geppo. End of Debate..lol......One piece isnt as simple as the stronger or faster guy wins. Abilities & skills matter!

How can it be a stalemate fight? Vergo will never destroy Pica's statue; can he avoid montain sized punched with Geppo AT ALL (Pica's punches litterally destroy dozens of houses at once, can he really outrun that easily? I doubt it), and even if he can, for how long can he avoid it? There's just no way Vergo just stalemates dude. He loses.

 

[XXGenesis]

How can it be a stalemate fight? Vergo will never destroy Pica's statue; can he avoid montain sized punched with Geppo AT ALL (Pica's punches litterally destroy dozens of houses at once, can he really outrun that easily? I doubt it), and even if he can, for how long can he avoid it? There's just no way Vergo just stalemates dude. He loses.

When Pica starts to move that lv and amount of stone it takes time to form and its movement is slow...

So yea, Vergo who already has Info already on Pica . IMO will Geppo high enough into the sky..Pica wasnt a smart fighter. So yes haxx ability doesnt mean he'll always capitalize on it against different types of opponents.

 

[Fox666]

Stone is not a particularly durable material in One Piece. The monster trio could open the ground open since the beginning of the series, and take blows of similar strength into their faces.

The only thing Pica had was his size, which was even bigger than Wadatsumi.

Vergo destroyed the steel walls of the laboratory with the mere shock wave of his bamboo swinging.