Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

Zoro's CoA was always better than Luffy even with G4, Luffy has only started pulling ahead because of his advanced CoA training, but even that might be mitigated by the fact Zoro is training his advanced CoA as well with Enma so its up in the air who has better CoA, but before Wano arc Zoro's CoA was way better than Luffy.

Just stop please. I admitted Zolo's CoA > Luffy's CoA but not G4 Luffy. You seriously think Zolo's haki could defeat Doffy much less Katakuri.

 

[M3J]

Against Katakuri, and training in Udon.

He didn't used it when he attacked Kaido because he was not focused.

Not counting Katakuri because obviously, especially since he went back to finish the fight just to master Future Sight. Only one other moment, if it's training in Udon, otherwise he hasn't bothered to use Future Sight.

If you are comparing their basic CoO, there is no better or worse character when it comes to it. All of them have shown feats of being capable of it and all of them have failed to show it working when they should have, numerous of times. "Luffy trusting Zoro to deal with it.." is just pure denial, Luffy isnt all-powerful.
Even Katakuri, with years of FS experience, failed several times when it comes to basic CoO aura detection.
Sanji dodging Katakuri's bean is basic CoO feat, picking up a bullet from a fodder ain't no different.

Katakuri, as far as I know, generally failed when he tried to change what he saw. Otherwise, Zoro hasn't shown better CoO than Luffy.

 

[Shasha23]

Just stop please. I admitted Zolo's CoA > Luffy's CoA but not G4 Luffy. You seriously think Zolo's haki could defeat Doffy much less Katakuri.

G4 doesn't increase his haki
just because you have stronger haki doesn't mean you can beat stronger people

 

[jaymizzo]

Not counting Katakuri because obviously, especially since he went back to finish the fight just to master Future Sight. Only one other moment, if it's training in Udon, otherwise he hasn't bothered to use Future Sight.

What other moments do you think he had to showcase his use of FS? He did the moment he got on the shores of Wano, did it one or two more times beforr Udon IIRC.

When the situation called for it. He used it. Quite casually in Udon as well.

 

[nik87]

Katakuri, as far as I know, generally failed when he tried to change what he saw. Otherwise, Zoro hasn't shown better CoO than Luffy.

I dont think he failed. He acted upon the future he saw, every time he acted upon it he changed it.
FS aside, Luffy hasnt shown better CoO than Zoro either. We can do this all day, plenty of moments to support it.

 

[thedude]

Just stop please. I admitted Zolo's CoA > Luffy's CoA but not G4 Luffy. You seriously think Zolo's haki could defeat Doffy much less Katakuri.

Lol...do you know who you are talking to? the answer is yes, yes he does.

Luffy currently has the top level CoO after fighting Katakuri. Neither Zoro or Sanji can match that. He has the higher level CoA as well from what we've seen, since we haven't really seen Sanji or Zoro do much of anything. Oda just hasn't written much for them to do, so to say they've shown anywhere near Luffy, especially now with future sight and the advanced CoA haki, is just making stuff up.

 

[Fox666]

Alright...

If Zoro has better CoO than Luffy, why did he got hit by Hawkins nails

when Luffy dodged all of Katakuri attacks?

 

[thedude]

Alright...

If Zoro has better CoO than Luffy, why did he got hit by Hawkins nails

when Luffy dodged all of Katakuri attacks?

Hell, Sanji dodged the "bullet" from Katakuri, something that shocked him. Katakuri can see the future, dodging one of those is a more impressive use of CoO than Zoro's shown.

And I'm not saying that makes him better at CoO. Only that he actually has a feat that we can look at that is impressive. Zoro has...what?

 

[Shasha23]

Alright...

If Zoro has better CoO than Luffy, why did he got hit by Hawkins nails

You clearly see on that panel Zoro moving towards the nails to cover Luffy and Tama, you are bringing up stupid and irrelevant panels that are proving you wrong you know!

There are many panels that you can post that can prove your point you know!

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2020, Original Post Date: May 4, 2020 ---

Hell, Sanji dodged the "bullet" from Katakuri, something that shocked him. Katakuri can see the future, dodging one of those is a more impressive use of CoO than Zoro's shown.

And I'm not saying that makes him better at CoO. Only that he actually has a feat that we can look at that is impressive. Zoro has...what?

Very true, before Luffy fought Katakuri Sanji was the only one with the most impressive CoO feat.
From the start of the TS Zoro was able to use flow and Luffy is only learning it now in Wano.

I dont get why these guys are even arguing so much about what happened in the manga

 

[Fox666]

Hell, Sanji dodged the "bullet" from Katakuri, something that shocked him. Katakuri can see the future, dodging one of those is a more impressive use of CoO than Zoro's shown.

And I'm not saying that makes him better at CoO. Only that he actually has a feat that we can look at that is impressive. Zoro has...what?

Sanji knew they would try to kill him, didn't he? So Sanji was ready.

I wonder what would happen if he was not prepared.

 

[thedude]

Sanji knew they would try to kill him, didn't he? So Sanji was ready.

I wonder what would happen if he was not prepared.

He was prepared for Pudding to shoot him. But Katakuri used future sight to attack him, meaning in his vision he was able to kill Sanji. But Sanji's was strong enough to counter that. That is no small feat.

 

[Fox666]

in his vision he was able to kill Sanji

I think Katakuri only saw Sanji dodging the priest, and was trying to change the future...

 

[thedude]

I think Katakuri only saw Sanji dodging the priest, and was trying to change the future...

He was pretty surprised that Sanji dodged his own attack, that suggests something more.

 

[Shasha23]

I think Katakuri only saw Sanji dodging the priest, and was trying to change the future...

Nope, Katakuri sees the future and attacks where one dodges, we saw him do this over and over, just accept it man, Sanji was skilled enough to dodge Katakuri and stop trying to downplay his strength.

 

[thedude]

Nope, Katakuri sees the future and attacks where one dodges, we saw him do this over and over, just accept it man, Sanji was skilled enough to dodge Katakuri and stop trying to downplay his strength.

lol i can't believe i'm agreeing with you .

The issue with Sanji and Zoro, and why it's hard to rank them, is they haven't been given anything challenging yet, and the few Sanji has had were minor skirmishes that weren't full blown fights. The only fight he had we can definitively say he was going to lose badly was Doflamingo, and no shame there. For Zoro, the only fight he's really had to completion is Pica, and now Killer (and even there, Killer is using something other than his regular weapon, and was mentally "not there" for that fight. I don't doubt Zoro would still win, but this fight wasn't as good as the two could likely have).

Sanji's CoO was shown to be high in that instance. Zoro also has shown good CoO, but doesn't have a feat that high level to me. I'm sure he'll have his moments this arc (hope they all do so we can properly gauge everyone's true level).

 

[Pirate Queen]

People are confusing reaction speed with CoO lol this discussion is all over the place.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

People are confusing reaction speed with CoO lol this discussion is all over the place.

Thats why i hate Haki.

Dealing with fodder? Before haki: Flashy AoE Move. Now: I look in your direction.
Rection speed? Nope futuresight.
Physical strength? Nope my Haki is harder.
Cool Devilfruitability? Here have my Hakidefense and offense.

 

[Fox666]

Nope, Katakuri sees the future and attacks where one dodges, we saw him do this over and over, just accept it man, Sanji was skilled enough to dodge Katakuri and stop trying to downplay his strength.

How exactly am I downplaying Sanji if I said Katakuri has not seen a future where he kills Sanji? Also I was the one who brought up Sanji dodging the bullet to begin with, as a clear example of CoO.

I'm just analyzing how Katakuri ability works. AFAIK only Katakuri who can see the future can influence it (which Capone even used to his advantage). Had he seen a future which he kills Sanji, that would have happened if he followed the same steps.

 

[XXGenesis]

Thats why i hate Haki.

Dealing with fodder? Before haki: Flashy AoE Move. Now: I look in your direction.
Rection speed? Nope futuresight.
Physical strength? Nope my Haki is harder.
Cool Devilfruitability? Here have my Hakidefense and offense.

CoO imo is the only hard aspect to fully illustrate or implement, when Shounen characters basically have lightspeed or supersonic type reactions anyway...So FS or radar/spidey sense is hard to implement constantly, & consistently.

As for CoA. Its nuanced, but not by much.
Simply remember Luffy vs Boa sisters fight.
Boa Sis w/Haki=defense & power to hurt luffy.

Luffy G2 more power, broke their CoA, with physical strength.

Now remember Luffy vs Katakuri's fight.
G4 muscles enhancements + full haki
= Stalemate or equal power & durability vs Mochi Block

G2 haki fist vs Mochi block= Mochi Block smah; Mochi block stronger physically & more haki

G4 Snakeman speed enhancement + haki vs Mochi block= Mochi block with more strength Luffy still takes damage.

Only G4 had equal strength & Haki to Mochi block.

Imo this is why Sanji isnt Commander Lv. He Has offense, but not high lv haki to deliver the blow..I.E P1 shaking off his attacks.

 

[thedude]

Thats why i hate Haki.

Dealing with fodder? Before haki: Flashy AoE Move. Now: I look in your direction.
Rection speed? Nope futuresight.
Physical strength? Nope my Haki is harder.
Cool Devilfruitability? Here have my Hakidefense and offense.

Right, Oda has a way of showing Haki. Like the Sanji example I'm talking about, Sanji isn't looking, and there is an "after image" in the drawing showing his use of CoO.

One Piece Chapter 862 Page 12

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Here is Luffy using it:

One Piece Chapter 893 Page 8

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Zoro shows none of this in the nails scene. He literally says "nails" after we are shown Hawkins straw-monster spit the nails out. He is just reacting with his sword techniques, like normal.

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2020, Original Post Date: May 4, 2020 ---

How exactly am I downplaying Sanji if I said Katakuri has not seen a future where he kills Sanji? Also I was the one who brought up Sanji dodging the bullet to begin with, as a clear example of CoO.

I'm just analyzing how Katakuri ability works. AFAIK only Katakuri who can see the future can influence it (which Capone even used to his advantage). Had he seen a future which he kills Sanji, that would have happened if he followed the same steps.

Not true. Luffy was able to see the same future and react to it when they fought.

One Piece Chapter 891 Page 10

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So it's clear that even if he follows the same steps, his future sight can be thwarted by someone else.