One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[thedude]

It is ok, you were wrong and cant admit it. Luffy was attacked by 8 biscuits, not by 8 swords. Move on...

Having twice the physical power allows you to me your hand twice faster? I'm sure the science can easily prove that wrong. Besides, Zoro took 3x Shigan...

8 biscuit swords, with the strength of steel. So...8 swords. It's hard to argue with you because you are constantly inventing new things to try to squirm your way out of admitting you are wrong. Cracker is so powerful he has an 800M bounty and the WG doesn't even know what he looks like outside of his biscuit armour. And yet here you are trying to downplay that...it's pathetic.

Lol, you are the one who said one is moving at 4000Km and the other at 2000km...now that I showed how much more that would translate to, you have moved on and shifted the goalposts, again.

 

[nik87]

8 biscuit swords, with the strength of steel. So...8 swords. It's hard to argue with you because you are constantly inventing new things to try to squirm your way out of admitting you are wrong. Cracker is so powerful he has an 800M bounty and the WG doesn't even know what he looks like outside of his biscuit armour. And yet here you are trying to downplay that...it's pathetic.

Lol, you are the one who said one is moving at 4000Km and the other at 2000km...now that I showed how much more that would translate to, you have moved on and shifted the goalposts, again.

LoL, give it up. It is biscuits. End of story, you can wiggle around and try to paint it better than it is, it remains biscuit.
What am I inventing? That biscuit doubles swords were made of biscuits? That's a fact young fella.
No, Cracker has 860mil bounty, you should re-read the manga.
Yes, yes they dont know his face but it is only because he never met anyone strong enough to spank his ass. Same with Katakuri's undefeated record, the first time someone fights him, he loses lol. They are momma's boys hiding behind the reputation of an Emperor. Plenty of people who can spank both Cracker's and Katakuri's ass. And I am not downplaying Cracker, his ability is better counter for Luffy's combat style than anything else seen so far but when paired against Zoro, he is nothing but fodder.

Yes, I made a wrong example. Even with wrong example, Zoro took 3 Shigans, Luffy took 1. Luffy was clapped, Zoro wasnt. Try again.

 

[jaymizzo]

@nik87
Can you please explain the mechanics of Ashura? It seems like it can one shot anyone in your eyes. I don't remember the manga explaining in detail how it works so I might be a bit lost on your scaling here.

--- Double Post Merged, May 15, 2020, Original Post Date: May 15, 2020 ---

At the end of Wano arc you will have a clear picture of what Zoro was capable off during all this time so hold your horses.

It... It really doesn't work that way.

 

[nik87]

@nik87
Can you please explain the mechanics of Ashura? It seems like it can one shot anyone in your eyes. I don't remember the manga explaining in detail how it works so I might be a bit lost on your scaling here.

It... It really doesn't work that way.

He didnt need Asura to go through Kaku's tekkai, Asura was overkill and it has cut through a Pacifista which is tougher than Lucci.
You can draw a conclusion from that?
Also, Zoro has one shotted every opponent so far bar Pica who was shielded by a mountain of stone and Asura isnt required. Shishi SonSon is enough to one shot anyone. That's how sword fights work, the first clean slice ends the fight. Unless you are MC with tons of plot armor around you and you have a mission of saving your brother so whatever hits you, you keep running.

Yes, that's exactly how it works. Once DR and WCI were over we got to see Luffy's limits and we have seen all he was capable of back on FI - Bound/Snakeman.
You will have the same display of abilities that Zoro was capable of back in FI. Asura and anything new from TS training has yet to be shown and it was available the entire time.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

I have yet to read a single valid counterargument to this: swords > flesh.

Sword + haki > flesh + same amount of haki.
Or that slashes and cuts are deadlier than blunt damage. This isn't trolling, this is common sense.

People feel offended because of their headcanons. And pretend like there's no such thing as plot armor, which there definitely is.

Cracker without black coating cut through Gear 4th Luffy's black armament haki as if it was butter. Hordy Jones without haki whatsoever didn't find Luffy's armament that amazing either.

Katakuri's armament was superior too.

Luffy is only now beginning to catch up in this department. Zoro who specializes in armament, who hasn't yet shown his full strength after the timeskip, is arguably more proficient in the department of armament haki.

I wouldn't say that Zoro can defeat someone like Doffy or that the fight would be a low diff for Zoro, because Doffy is one hell of a tricky fighter.

However when it comes to "damage per square inch" aspect of strength I wouldn't hesitate to say that Zoro has an upper hand here.

 

[roggie]

Exaggerations apart, Nik has some points and i can agree with them to some extent (or disagree if an argument is presented)

After time skip when did Zoro fight with to his limit? Since he did not, it's reasonable to infer we haven't seen his real power.
Thus, we could say he had it since the TS comeback.
Maybe. A little debatable here. As i said before, Zoro is already training with Emma and it was never shown if he learned anything off panel.

From this perspective, and considering how much Luffy grew since he came back, it's not absurd to think at some point Zoro was stronger than Luffy.

My personal feelings, not necessarily supported by facts or feats
Doflamingo is YC level and was stronger than Luffy.
Probably Zoro could win against Cracker (easier than Luffy) but couldn't handle Katakuri.

 

[Aliocha]

Cracker and Katakuri are both had stronger CoA than Luffy.

But the only logical way to argue that Zoro is currently more efficient is that he faced the same opponents as Luffy,

 

[thedude]

Then literally everyone is annoying. If your definition of annoying is "someone who has an opinion".

You want robots? Go talk to an AI. This is a forum. People have opinions. His just happens to be that Zoro is strong AF.

I don't find it annoying because at the very least it helps this forum feel lively.

Plus I have yet to read a single valid counterargument to this: swords > flesh.

Sword + haki > flesh + same amount of haki.
Or that slashes and cuts are deadlier than blunt damage. This isn't trolling, this is common sense.

People feel offended because of their headcanons. And pretend like there's no such thing as plot armor, which there definitely is.

Cracker without black coating cut through Gear 4th Luffy's black armament haki as if it was butter. Hordy Jones without haki whatsoever didn't find Luffy's armament that amazing either.

Katakuri's armament was superior too.

Luffy is only now beginning to catch up in this department. Zoro who specializes in armament, who hasn't yet shown his full strength after the timeskip, is arguably more proficient in the department of armament haki.

I wouldn't say that Zoro can defeat someone like Doffy or that the fight would be a low diff for Zoro, because Doffy is one hell of a tricky fighter.

However when it comes to "damage per square inch" aspect of strength I wouldn't hesitate to say that Zoro has an upper hand here.

One Piece Chapter 838 Page 5

Read One Piece Chapter 838 Page 5 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

That blade is black...don't say "headcanon" and then get something so basic wrong.

Here is more proof he is using CoA even in his bicuit form:

One Piece Chapter 837 Page 13

Read One Piece Chapter 837 Page 13 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

Lol, if you haven't seen Zoro do anything with armament haki, please don't say he is more proficient. I mean..."headcanon". You literally have no proof other than "uh...I think he is".

What is it with the swordbois...

 

[XXGenesis]

Zoro could not have beat Cracker.
Cracker is a glass Cannon of sorts & his DF is easily countered by Zoro. Aside from Cracker being strong, having good CoA to cut G4..A battle of attrition would be different in Zoro's case. As Luffy was eating, he never lost stamina, like Cracker. So both Zoro & Cracker will be losing stamina...

Back to Cracker being stronger than Zoro..Zoro casual or even mid lv named techniques are gonna get blocked by the multiple pretzels & biscuit Soldiers...Cracker wasnt just some chump...

He has low defense. Still Luffy turned him into a cannonball & shot him through dozens of his own very durable Biscuit soldiers. So the attack is silly but does has sine weight to it.

Zoro is a good match up for Luffy. But He's not overcoming G4 & Snakeman. Snakeman even though Luffy already had some zenkai boost..Was good enough to handle Katakuri...Zoro is going to get wrecked.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

One Piece Chapter 838 Page 5

Read One Piece Chapter 838 Page 5 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

That blade is black...don't say "headcanon" and then get something so basic wrong.

Here is more proof he is using CoA even in his bicuit form:

One Piece Chapter 837 Page 13

Read One Piece Chapter 837 Page 13 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

Lol, if you haven't seen Zoro do anything with armament haki, please don't say he is more proficient. I mean..."headcanon". You literally have no proof other than "uh...I think he is".

What is it with the swordbois...

Reread my post. Ok, I got one part wrong. Cracker did in fact use black haki.

Still, the argument remains unchanged. Never even said Cracked didn't use haki at all. Only said no black haki in that one instance which I got wrong I admit. But that doesn't change the fact that swords + haki > flesh + same amount of haki.

I've seen Zoro cut Pica. His swords were even emitting haki aura.

 

[Fox666]

Zoro couldnt handle Lucci? With Asura he would have one shotted him in a single move, like anyone else...

That's a bold claim.

The only time Zoro tried to fight Lucci (in his hybrid form) was kinda of humilhating, and even Luffy could only do it with Gear 2, so I really don't think Zoro could do it.

The very next arc Asura is going through Pacifista which is far tougher than Lucci and while Zoro is in terrible condition.

Zoro didn't fought the Pacifista alone.

He only caused some moderate damage with his slashes, similar to what he did to Kuma earlier, but with more swords.

The Pacifista was still standing after all the Strawhats attacked him with their ultimate moves, and it was Luffy who finished it with Gear 3.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

I think Jinbei is more powerful atm, but by the end of the arc, Zoro for sure and maybe Sanji as well, will surpass him. The straw hats tend to grow more powerful after every major battle, and unlike jinbei, who is in his late 40s, Zoro and Sanji are both in their early 20s, and neither has really had a real battle to show their improvements post timeskip, like they each had against CP9, they’ve always had either short skirmishes or fights that don’t require them to go all out. We haven’t seen Zoro use his new blade with armament haki and asura. We haven’t seen Sanji use his raid suit with Diable Jamie and armament haki. Plus, Zoros specialty is armament, so his next level of that is turning his blades black, and Sanjis specialty is observation, so his next level is katakuri style future seeing. They’ve each only just learned haki in the last 2 years, where we know Jinbei was good enough with haki over 4 years ago to take on logia ace. Zoro and Sanji just seem to have more room for growth

I would have said Jinbei at the end of the last arc but with Zoro's sword upgrade I think he will have surpassed Jinbei seeing as he will most likely have mastered it by now.

 

[McNuss]

Cracker and Katakuri are both had stronger CoA than Luffy.

Actually Cracker having a very strong CoA might have been based around misassuming the armor for the real body.

If you inforce rock hard biscuit with Haki, it naturally should be harder than just flesh and bones.

In fact Cracker, after his armor had been shattered, couldn't mitigate the damage from G4 at all anymore, unlike Doflamingo who did so with stitched up internal organs.

I think it is very likely that Doflamingo has stronger Haki and Cracker's Haki was just supposed to be very good because it was reinforcing a rock hard substance.

--- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2020, Original Post Date: May 16, 2020 ---

Having a sword doesn't make you stronger just because you have a sword. It just doesn't. Luffy beat an insanely strong guy who could make his sword black with haki. A guy who could make countless soldiers each with haki covered blades.

I doubt that the clones can be covered with Haki.

Bullets and arrows can be reinforced with Haki because they are in contact with the user before being fired.

But Haki can't be directed freely through space and it cannot teleport to another spot. Only the armor that Cracker wears can be infused via Haki.

 

[nik87]

There are two scenarios after Wano:
1 - I get proven wrong by facts presented on manga panels and have to shut up or dial down on Zoro's strength
2 - A lot of you have some explaining to do and need to come up with headcanon to keep Luffy ahead of Zoro

Regarding the nr2 I already see counter measures being taken - "Wano Zoro is much stronger than FI Zoro". Oh yeah? Feel free to explain what's he able to do now than the he wasnt able to do back on FI.

 

[Brandish μ]

"Wano Zoro is much stronger than FI Zoro"

Idk about 'much', but Zoro did say he'll be stronger, after he gets used to Enma.

Zoro hasn't had the chance to improve since he left Mihawk's training.

 

[nik87]

Idk about 'much', but Zoro did say he'll be stronger, after he gets used to Enma.

Zoro hasn't had the chance to improve since he left Mihawk's training.

It would be nice if anyone could point a finger and say what he is able to do with Enma that he wasnt able to do before it.

 

[roggie]

It would be nice if anyone could point a finger and say what he is able to do with Enma that he wasnt able to do before it.

Possibly hurts Kaido.

 

[nik87]

Possibly hurts Kaido.

It wasnt possible before Enma? Despite Zoro saying that he can cut everything?

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

It wasnt possible before Enma? Despite Zoro saying that he can cut everything?

Even if he says that he can, it doesn't necessarily mean that he can ^^

 

[nik87]

Even if he says that he can, it doesn't necessarily mean that he can ^^

Sure but it certainly leans towards that he can.
The whole Enma thing is probably a step towards the Black Blade and if so, it has nothing to do with increase of Zoro's PL untill Kokuto appears and if it offers something aside from just being a tougher blade. The one thing which Hitetsu mentions to Zoro is that he is sure that in his hands Enma can become a black blade and I already made a theory how to obtain it - through control which doesnt make Zoro stronger than he was.