One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

And the point of introducing Enma as one of the only two blades that cut Kaido is?

No point at all. Any blade can cut Kaido. It just happened that Oden was using those two...

The point of Enma having these properties is?

A step towards the black blade since it probably has to do with control of Haki, imo.

Shusui Zoro's haki output: 1-100
Enma Zoro's haki output: 1-120

Both outputs are maxed at 100, Enma cannot give more Haki than Zoro already has.

But as I said it's a shortcut for Zoro.

Shortcut to achieving black blade? I agree. Shortcut to cutting Kaido? I disagree.

All of the stronger SHs got their respective power-ups in Wano.

Luffy has reached his limits, physical power was no longer effective. Justified power-up.
Sanji was always fragile. Justified power-up.
Zoro hasnt reached his limits and never had any issue of controlling haki. Power-up as in a step towards black blade, sure.
For anything else, I will wait for proof otherwise I see no power-up.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

I would have said Jinbei at the end of the last arc but with Zoro's sword upgrade I think he will have surpassed Jinbei seeing as he will most likely have mastered it by now.

Agree.
WCI jinbei is stronger than dressrosa zoro
But current zoro should already surpass jinbe, or at worst surpass him by end of wano

 

[goldb]

Admin Notice:

Most of what's needed to be said about this Zoro power level and limits has been said, I've just gone back a week's worth of posts and it's literally the same things being repeated. A lot of what has been mentioned in terms of the character and his limit is speculative until we see him pushed in this arc(hopefully), so we can re-evaluate these points afer the fact.
I will be deleting any of the same arguments unless you can provide manga/databook evidence to continue this, so the onus is on you.

There's been too many snide, troll and passive aggressive posts recently. I don't care if you agree with each other or not. If you can't defend your arguments or have nothing constructive to add, then re-evaluate its necessity. I definitely don't want to see any bashing; of character or users.

Also, any discussions not relating to power level will be treated as off-topic, so please take those the correct threads( spoiler: there are pages of threads) or make one. I'll pin this to the top of the page.

If you disagree with anything, PM me or you know...use the report function to save yourself being involved. ~ goldb

 

[King Moe]

As it is now, we have no reason to doubt Zoro.

He hasn't had the chance to confirm or deny the improvements, to be fair. If we see him fight and Enma makes no difference, then I'd agree with you.

For now, it is heavily implied Zoro's haki will improve in order to tame Enma. If that's the case, logically Zoro has improved, and what he said makes sense. Since this is what the story and Zoro are telling me I'll believe it until told or shown otherwise.

--- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2020, Original Post Date: May 16, 2020 ---

Zoro has not been put to full power yet. Luffy is the only character in the SH who we can claim have gone all out in Wano.



Zoro defeated Pica without going all-out, so no.

On Golem Pica, that was his maximum. If he had new power over that, it doesn't make sense on next fight to follow him being hype tool especially in Wano. He was at his limit and admit Enma will help him get stronger.

--- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2020 ---

The hell makes you think we saw his limit against Pica when fight mostly consisted of Pica going from rock to rock and barely challenging Zoro? The only two challenges Zoro had was Pica's ability to go from rock to rock and running away to attack the others that forced Zoro to use his ranged attack. THen he was effortlessly cutting rocks into pieces.

Cause it never stated or hinted he has new power over that since and would have use it by now with his last 4 fights if he did. Enma reinforce more he didn't had new power waiting as it wouldn't make sense to hold back on certain opponents he faced.

It was implied again that was his full power by his VA and possibly Oda during the last movie as they stated it prior before showing he use the same move again.

 

[roggie]

Better control of Haki doesnt necessarily mean stronger haki or more haki. (see my theory of black blade)

You are not being reasonable. If Zoro says himself he will get stronger if he gets used to Enma, i fail to see how can anyone argue against that.

Zoro, a dedicated practitioner of the haki arts. Also, the man who wielded the sword Enma: said he would get stronger.
Oda, the man who writes the story, knows what is OnePiece, invented Haki and have the power to decide literally everything that happens: had the trouble to draw and spent a panel to show his readers Zoro saying he would get stronger.
Nik87, a biased Zoro fan that decided to believe TS Zoro is strong enough to face an Yonko, has no information on Enma or Haki besides that, that Zoro and Oda said: is 100% sure Zoro was mistaken about getting stronger through Enma.

 

[King Moe]

Jimbei is stronger one still as Zoro hasn't shown anything above what he can do. Though eventuality he will be above him down the line.

 

[nik87]

If Zoro says himself he will get stronger if he gets used to Enma, i fail to see how can anyone argue against that.

The same way I can argue against Sanji himself saying he would reduce enemy numbers while he didnt.
Nothing unreasonable about asking for proof that Zoro got stronger because of Enma.

biased Zoro fan that decided to believe TS Zoro is strong enough to face an Yonko

Weaker characters than Zoro have faced a Yonko, nothing special about it. Winning is entirely different thing and nobody aside from Yonkos, Admirals and powerful Shichibukais like Mihawk and Weevil stands a chance in 1vs1.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

The same way I can argue against Sanji himself saying he would reduce enemy numbers while he didnt.
Nothing unreasonable about asking for proof that Zoro got stronger because of Enma.

I figure it's the soul of the sword itself that, when in-sync with the wielder, allows for more power. ^^

 

[nik87]

I figure it's the soul of the sword itself that, when in-sync with the wielder, allows for more power. ^^

I am sure that's a Bleach thing, not OP.

 

[Fox666]

To be fair, in One Piece a ship's spirit has materialized and fixed itself.

Both outputs are maxed at 100, Enma cannot give more Haki than Zoro already has.

I don't think that's fair.

If Haki is shit, then Enma is diarrhea.

Diarrhea doesn't increase the amount of extrement in your body, but you are still crapping more.

 

[nik87]

If Haki is shit, then Enma is diarrhea.
Diarrhea doesn't increase the amount of extrement in your body, but you are still crapping more.

You better pray that Zoro shrivels up each time from that diarrhea or he is only crapping as much as he wants.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

I am sure that's a Bleach thing, not OP.

I would agree except that swords having personalities has been a thing in OP since forever, and Zoro's newest sword has the whole haki num-num thing going on.

 

[nik87]

I would agree except that swords having personalities has been a thing in OP since forever, and Zoro's newest sword has the whole haki num-num thing going on.

Enma's gimmick only works on those who cant prevent their Haki from being sapped away. Both masters of the sword, Oden and Zoro, have nullified that effect.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

Enma's gimmick only works on those who cant prevent their Haki from being sapped away. Both masters of the sword, Oden and Zoro, have nullified that effect.

I'm unsure of what that has to do with what I was saying ^^

 

[nik87]

I'm unsure of what that has to do with what I was saying ^^

Gimmicks of the swords are what you call personality...

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

Gimmicks of the swords are what you call personality...

There's also the cursed sword stuff with some swords, Shusui being described as having a 'temper' by Zoro, etc. So these otherwise normal inanimate objects have plenty of things that separate them from just being inanimate objects.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

You better pray that Zoro shrivels up each time from that diarrhea or he is only crapping as much as he wants.

You can't use as much haki as you want to. This has been a thing in One Piece for a while now starting from the introduction of Gear 4th.

Your haki reservoir gets bigger as you grow stronger but you can't have an unlimited amount.

And we have clearly seen what Enma does. It drains haki forcefully.

Now imagine a scenario where a character has to perform an attack with Enma with haki. Normally with a regular sword they would have to force out the haki by themselves. With Enma however it is done automatically. All you need to do is stop it before it drains all of your haki.

 

[nik87]

You can't use as much haki as you want to. This has been a thing in One Piece for a while now starting from the introduction of Gear 4th.
Your haki reservoir gets bigger as you grow stronger but you can't have an unlimited amount.
And we have clearly seen what Enma does. It drains haki forcefully.

Now imagine a scenario where a character has to perform an attack with Enma with haki. Normally with a regular sword they would have to force out the haki by themselves. With Enma however it is done automatically. All you need to do is stop it before it drains all of your haki.

That's not what I meant. I said he uses as much as he wants per strike, as he did before Enma and as he will do after/with Enma.
The forceful drain of Enma is neutralized, it no longer exists regarding Zoro. If someone with weaker control was in question sure but such person wouldnt want to use such a liability.

Zoro still has to willingly force out Haki because the other two swords dont have the same gimmick as Enma...
It's silly to think he just presses Play and Pause due to Enma while the other two swords don't have the Play option available...
Only if he shrivels up he allowed Enma to draw out more than he can do normally draw out without shriveling up.

 

[roggie]

I compare wielding Enma to a plank exercise. Just because you can do the position for a couple of seconds doesn't mean you can hold it for a minute or 2.
And it doesn't matter if Zoro already can hold 1, 5 or even 10 minutes, after Enma he will be able to hold more.
He will be stronger.

 

[kcd]

I think Emma is definitely a power up. The first time he used it, his output was boosted in a way that was akin to someone not knowing their own strength, like when you try to hug someone and ends up squashing them because your strength have been multiplied.

Enma does what no other sword can do as far as we know. No sword in the entire Onepiece universe can suck someone’s haki to the point that even their physical body suffers and shrivels up. To cut a cliff with any other sword, Zoro will exert more energy to do so, but with Enma, it's all automatic, all it takes is an effortless swipe and the cliff will be cut, so how the hell is the sword not a power up?

For starters, it saves Zoro stamina, which means Zoro can last longer in battle as long as he defends properly and attacks with precision, as in, not waste haki unnecessarily by attacking often, rather, attacking only when there's an opening. That's one.

Secondly. The fact that Zoro learns to stop Enma from sucking too much haki so that his hands doesn’t shrivel up anymore, doesn’t mean the sword still isn’t sucking more than necessary, it just means that it have been reduced to the point that Zoro’s hands doesn’t shrink anymore. In other words, Zoro have stopped the physical toll it takes on his body by stopping it from sucking everything at a go, or in one full sweep, now it isn't instantaneous. And after Zoro understood it's mechanics, why else would he think the sword would make him stronger? Having the character tell us himself, isn't that the same thing as being spoon-fed? Why do people prefer going against the author with their mental gymnastics? Like for example, someone saying Zoro is stronger than Luffy when the Vivre card have already told us otherwise?

Back to the sword. The way I see it... Reduce Enma's rampage, your hand won't shrink and you still get to send out stronger attacks. Allow enma to rampage and go all out... and you might even end up defeating someone on a higher tier than you are. It's a perfect power up for our sword boy.