Society Coronavirus Hangout

[Sanity Check]

Why would he, when all that positive results occurred under and thanks to Obama?

Trump's economic policies are 100% the polar opposite of Obama's.

Does that make it difficult to give Obama credit for positive economic achievement under Trump?

Trump's only credit was not fucking it up until the virus hit.

I give Trump credit for banning infected travellers from china, despite the media labeling Trump a racist for it.

I'm not sure if you're being daft, but clearly the topic was on handling the virus, and almost anyone but Trump and some republicans would have done a better job, like not getting rid of a pandemic team and actually taking action in Jan or Feb rather than mid-March.

Personally, I love Trump for not hopping on the open borders bandwagon. Trump IMO did better than any other leader in the world by building a wall. Trump's economy was also better than the economy of any other nation in the entire world from 2016 to 2020.

The pattern we've witnessed is: Trump's immigration plan was better, Trump's economic plan was better.

I think Trump also handled corona better than other world leaders.

You're either trolling or you really are ignorant. Breitbart, Fox News, InfoWars, The Daily Wire, and etc are right wing news/conservative news. Left wing news would be The Hill and Huffpost, two that are usually more reliable and honest than any right wing news I've come across.

Fox news is owned by Fox which is a huge corporation with its own agendas, not unlike google.

InfoWars hasn't been InfoWars for a very long time. I no longer consider Alex Jones to be a conservative on the right.

The Daily Wire is Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro is neither a conservative nor on the right. He has his own agenda and pushes his own narratives.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

The pattern we've witnessed is: Trump's immigration plan was better, Trump's economic plan was better.

According to this study from Statistics Times the US isn't even in the top five countries, economically speaking. As for immigration, that entirely depends on what you personally want the end result to be, versus what the end result turns out to be. It's a completely subjective topic. As someone who believes in open borders, and who saw that banning visitors from China about a month after Corona had already spread to a large sum of the rest of the world(including the US), all I can say is that it failed to do anything meaningful and preventative. If, however, the goal was to say 'Chinese people are to blame for this" and ramp up both racism and xenophobia in America then that would be successful. And given that such a thing is the only thing that Trump's immigration plan did in this context, then it would be wildly successful.

 

[desin24]

Greta Thunberg is more of an expert than Trump, and she would have handled this much better.

CNN likely has the lowest ratings because the left aren't sheep and don't trust CNN like some Dems do. Fox News is probably high because of how it has brainwashed the right, and because the right believe anything about Fox News as they tell stories the way the right want to hear it. Ratings don't mean anything. I mean, Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million but still became president, which is why the pandemic has hit us harder than it should have, and why we're suffering economically.

Yeah because the 17 year old on the spectrum would deal with the pressures of being President like a pro. Trump is a piece of shit but Trump Derangement Syndrome doesn't help anyone.

CNN same as Fox News are mostly ENTERTAINMENT products. CNN President admitted it directly some time ago. https://ivn.us/2017/04/17/cnn-president-admits-network-entertainment-journalism. The original article is behind a paywall with the new york times iirc. Also "The right" and "the left" are not monoliths. Many different reasons why they voted for Orange man and that is their right in a democracy.

That is not a fact. Nobody can say how the situation would be with a different President. Open Borders for a longer time might have accelerated the spread by quite a bit. Once again this is speculation because there are various variables. Regarding the economy unemployment was at a record low before this shit happened. But you were running a ridiculous deficit which certainly does not help in times of crisis. Typically Democrats are more conservative when it comes to budget.

Even if someone decides to take that meme seriously, it's a simple fact that the majority of people protesting stay-at-home orders are/were white.

Well, they make up 70% of the population and they get the economy is America's god. The lack of welfare that is standard for first world countries and people losing their means of living makes people desperate. I honestly understand it. Also, the retards without mask and distances are not the same as those protestors who keep the distance and wear masks.

 

[M3J]

Trump's economic policies are 100% the polar opposite of Obama's.

Does that make it difficult to give Obama credit for positive economic achievement under Trump?

So? Doesn't change the fact that Obama inherited a failing economy and turned it around, which allowed Trump to inherit a successful economy that to his credit, he didn't mess up for the first two years. Virtually every info and chart I've researched show that we saw positive outcome start under Obama and continue under Trump, and had Trump inherited Bush's economy, then who knows.

I give Trump credit for banning infected travellers from china, despite the media labeling Trump a racist for it.

Sources say this is full of shit. He didn't ban infected travellers, he only banned Chinese people, which is kind of racist as opposed to banning any and all travellers coming from China, including American citizens. This seems to be another case of Trump taking sole credit.

Trump’s ban on China travel: his claims vs. the facts

Trump’s order was not solely his decision nor did it fully close the U.S. off to China, the Associated Press states. His claim that the result of the...

www.marketwatch.com

Personally, I love Trump for not hopping on the open borders bandwagon. Trump IMO did better than any other leader in the world by building a wall. Trump's economy was also better than the economy of any other nation in the entire world from 2016 to 2020.

The pattern we've witnessed is: Trump's immigration plan was better, Trump's economic plan was better.

I think Trump also handled corona better than other world leaders.

Then you should love Obama because more immigrants were deported under him than any previous presidents. According to some farmers, open borders was a good plan because it gave them workers. Ever since the stricter crackdown on immigrants, farmers have complained that no American has applied or stayed long enough to work, which is another nail in the coffin with that "IMMIGRANTS ARE STEALING MAH JOB!!" BS.

This is tiresome. Walls do not work. Trump's wall, which is a small wall, would not stop or prevent undocumented immigration. If little bit of fact checking was done, then he and his supporters would know that a lot of undocumented immigrants enter legally but stay longer than allowed. He is also wasting taxpayer money on something that benefits no one, when he could use that money to help citizens. But then again, neither Trump nor republicans care about Americans, they just pretend to.

No, Trump's immigration plan is horrible, like Obama's. Unlike Obama's economic plan though, which got us out of recession, Trump's economic plan has not been much better, if at all.

You think incorrectly. Trump has handled corona horribly than other world leaders to the point that USA has the most cases of coronavirus and I think most deaths. Trump and Boris Johnson are considered to be the two world leaders who did an absolutely horrible job handling the pandemic. If Breitbart is your source of information, then I can see why you're wrong.

Fox news is owned by Fox which is a huge corporation with its own agendas, not unlike google.

InfoWars hasn't been InfoWars for a very long time. I no longer consider Alex Jones to be a conservative on the right.

The Daily Wire is Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro is neither a conservative nor on the right. He has his own agenda and pushes his own narratives.

Still a right wing source with right wing agenda. Prove me wrong.

Nevertheless, InfoWars is still right wing source as well just because they haven't been the InfoWars you know. They still lie and make up stories.

Google says Ben Shapiro is a conservative even if he's not a right winger. The Daily Wire is still conservative, and the articles I've seen have backed that up. It's why I don't take him or that source seriously at all.

Yeah because the 17 year old on the spectrum would deal with the pressures of being President like a pro. Trump is a piece of shit but Trump Derangement Syndrome doesn't help anyone.

Was the topic not on response to the pandemic? Almost anyone would have handled it better than Trump.

That is not a fact. Nobody can say how the situation would be with a different President. Open Borders for a longer time might have accelerated the spread by quite a bit. Once again this is speculation because there are various variables. Regarding the economy unemployment was at a record low before this shit happened. But you were running a ridiculous deficit which certainly does not help in times of crisis. Typically Democrats are more conservative when it comes to budget.

Which president would have disbanded the pandemic team or refused to listen to the experts or taken action too late, especially out of fear of losing the election? Which president would have punished or undermined Fauci or tried to silent him?

I think more cases of coronavirus came from Europe than it did from China, and for the NYC area, it definitely came from Europe. The experts even pushed for closing the border or at least, banning all travellers from China from entering the country.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

Which president would have disbanded the pandemic team or refused to listen to the experts or taken action too late, especially out of fear of losing the election? Which president would have punished or undermined Fauci or tried to silent him?

To add on to what you're saying - which president would suppress information about the virus in order to turn a profit?

 

[M3J]

To add on to what you're saying - which president would suppress information about the virus in order to turn a profit?

Probably Reagan and Nixon. Though if we're talking about the drug that Trump was peddling, a bit of research showed that he didn't stand to benefit much from hyping it up, it'd have made a negligible difference. I think it's just Trump trying to look good and boost his rating.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

Probably Reagan and Nixon. Though if we're talking about the drug that Trump was peddling, a bit of research showed that he didn't stand to benefit much from hyping it up, it'd have made a negligible difference. I think it's just Trump trying to look good and boost his rating.

Ah I just don't personally believe that a GOP senator didn't tell his corporate bootlicking GOP buddies(which would include Trump) to make money via stocks while sitting on Corona info. He told all his other rich buddies.

 

[M3J]

Oh right, five republican senators who kept saying the virus was a hoax were caught selling stocks. Shame that didn't stay a hot topic for a long while. And now despite Democratic governors trying to prioritize their constituents' health, you have idiots protesting and making things worse.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

Oh right, five republican senators who kept saying the virus was a hoax were caught selling stocks. Shame that didn't stay a hot topic for a long while. And now despite Democratic governors trying to prioritize their constituents' health, you have idiots protesting and making things worse.

I'm surprised the guy appointed to the oversight community for the stimulus check being immediately fired wasn't a hot topic for longer than a day. Especially because of the accusations that more money went to small businesses in red states than blue states.

 

[M3J]

I didn't even know about the accusations. Ugh, the president and his administration (along with Boris Johnson) continue to handle the pandemic crisis all wrong

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

I didn't even know about the accusations. Ugh, the president and his administration (along with Boris Johnson) continue to handle the pandemic crisis all wrong

Or right, if they're trying to get everyone killed

 

[Ramen]

Personally, I love Trump for not hopping on the open borders bandwagon. Trump IMO did better than any other leader in the world by building a wall. Trump's economy was also better than the economy of any other nation in the entire world from 2016 to 2020.

The pattern we've witnessed is: Trump's immigration plan was better, Trump's economic plan was better.

I think Trump also handled corona better than other world leaders.

Literally not true. Obama had a great economy at the end of his term. Stop giving him credit he doesn't deserve.

Trump handled better than other world leaders??

Many world leaders did much better than him.

 

[desin24]

To add on to what you're saying - which president would suppress information about the virus in order to turn a profit?

How are you Quarantines going? We are pretty much going back to normal here just with Masks and a couple of Social Distancing rules. I guess it's time to test out where the fine line is between keeping the economy going and not having too many dead people.

 

[M3J]

A lot of people, esp the ones in my town, are angry because they think it's a liberal agenda, especially for mail-in votes so they can commit fraud despite evidence showing republicans do that. It's very annoying. Nonessentials in my state are opening up, which would be cool, but I'm afeared that people won't practice social distancing and will just go batshit crazy. I think we'll get a second wave, but I dunno how long it's been since the protesters have started protesting.

 

[desin24]

A lot of people, esp the ones in my town, are angry because they think it's a liberal agenda, especially for mail-in votes so they can commit fraud despite evidence showing republicans do that. It's very annoying. Nonessentials in my state are opening up, which would be cool, but I'm afeared that people won't practice social distancing and will just go batshit crazy. I think we'll get a second wave, but I dunno how long it's been since the protesters have started protesting.

That's the problem with an "us vs them" mentality. Everything is an attack and you have to counter it. Typically there always is a second wave with pandemics. To be honest I believe that it is more likely to be manageable (enough ICU beds and caretakers to limit mortality) with a couple of restrictions on normal life (no concerts or big events where it can spread rapidly). Total lockdown is simply not feasible and can only be used as a way to buy time and build up infrastructure). I can also understand people getting nervous because in the US you don't have a welfare state to take care of some of the existential fears.

Over here the majority of companies went into "short-time work" which basically means that a majority of the people's salaries will be paid by the government if the companies keep them employed. Plus benefits and a functioning health care system keep the panic down.

 

[M3J]

That's the problem with an "us vs them" mentality. Everything is an attack and you have to counter it. Typically there always is a second wave with pandemics. To be honest I believe that it is more likely to be manageable (enough ICU beds and caretakers to limit mortality) with a couple of restrictions on normal life (no concerts or big events where it can spread rapidly). Total lockdown is simply not feasible and can only be used as a way to buy time and build up infrastructure). I can also understand people getting nervous because in the US you don't have a welfare state to take care of some of the existential fears.

Over here the majority of companies went into "short-time work" which basically means that a majority of the people's salaries will be paid by the government if the companies keep them employed. Plus benefits and a functioning health care system keep the panic down.

I hate it because we're all in this together, and we can do so much better by working together instead of crying about freedom and claiming "liberal tyranny." We're basically guaranteeing a second wave, but only time will tell how bad it'll be as more of us are more cautious than we were during the first wave. I don't know if it'll really be manageable though, that depends on how many people who were hospitalized in the first wave are out of hospitals now, otherwise hospitals will likely overflow again.

I'm not a fan of total lockdown, restrictions like the ones you suggested are better. However, we've behaved recklessly so the lockdown makes sense, but I think we should reopen and be a bit aggressive in making sure people practice social distancing safely, or wear masks. We do have a welfare state though, but it's far from good. For example, unemployed people get certain amount, but thanks to CARE act, we also get $600 on top of the normal unemployment amount, and it's extended for about 13 weeks. Plus, we also got $1,200, but that was once. Problem is, essential workers aren't getting anything extra, when they deserve to.

That sounds so much better.

 

[desin24]

I hate it because we're all in this together, and we can do so much better by working together instead of crying about freedom and claiming "liberal tyranny." We're basically guaranteeing a second wave, but only time will tell how bad it'll be as more of us are more cautious than we were during the first wave. I don't know if it'll really be manageable though, that depends on how many people who were hospitalized in the first wave are out of hospitals now, otherwise hospitals will likely overflow again.

I'm not a fan of total lockdown, restrictions like the ones you suggested are better. However, we've behaved recklessly so the lockdown makes sense, but I think we should reopen and be a bit aggressive in making sure people practice social distancing safely, or wear masks. We do have a welfare state though, but it's far from good. For example, unemployed people get certain amount, but thanks to CARE act, we also get $600 on top of the normal unemployment amount, and it's extended for about 13 weeks. Plus, we also got $1,200, but that was once. Problem is, essential workers aren't getting anything extra, when they deserve to.

That sounds so much better.

From the outside it seems like you are not even together as a country. You may have hints of a welfare state because the system would have collapsed without that. It is a mixed economy but you lean much more on the "free market" spirit than on the "government intervention" spirit. Those 600 Dollars on top probably gave some people more than they actually earned in their job. From a long term perspective that is the best thing, the government could do to keep the economy alive. The ghost of Andrew Yang would scream freedom dividend at this point.

That's not a problem from a macro perspective though. Sure they deserve more money especially in the caretaking jobs from a moralistic point of view but there are way bigger problems than someone "deserving more".The economic collapse and following social unrest would tank the whole country and make it way more vulnerable to the economic consequences of the second wave.

 

[Reebi]

Wow, this fun thread has turned into a political mess. At least I have wine

 

[M3J]

From the outside it seems like you are not even together as a country. You may have hints of a welfare state because the system would have collapsed without that. It is a mixed economy but you lean much more on the "free market" spirit than on the "government intervention" spirit. Those 600 Dollars on top probably gave some people more than they actually earned in their job. From a long term perspective that is the best thing, the government could do to keep the economy alive. The ghost of Andrew Yang would scream freedom dividend at this point.

That's not a problem from a macro perspective though. Sure they deserve more money especially in the caretaking jobs from a moralistic point of view but there are way bigger problems than someone "deserving more".The economic collapse and following social unrest would tank the whole country and make it way more vulnerable to the economic consequences of the second wave.

We really aren't united or in this together, given how different people feel about wearing masks, lockdowns, and whatnot. There are too many selfish people who won't wear a mask even to keep others safe.
It did give a lot of people more than what they earned to the point that many asked for a layoff so they could get unemployment. Simple math says that $15 per hour would have had the same pay as the $600 per week, and apparently that's what the government decided was what people needed to get by.

I agree, weekly unemployment and a monthly check would be great for so many people, and it could give them surpluses to get out of debt quicker. Scarily though, many businesses threatened employees to get back to work or see their unemployment go away.


Social unrest would be why it's a problem, given how they complain about and at the unemployed than at the government. Don't forget the lives that could be in danger from the second wave as well.

Wow, this fun thread has turned into a political mess. At least I have wine

Sadly, politics play a part in how pandemics are confronted.

 

[desin24]

Wow, this fun thread has turned into a political mess. At least I have wine

Then let's talk about wine. Do you have a favorite to carry you through quarantine or are you open to new experiences?