One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

I don't get the analogy with Lucci. He is a lot stronger than Blueno and Kaku. And isn't Blueno the one with the weird ability?

Point is that just because someone can give someone else trouble doesn't mean the someone else can't take on stronger opponents even though Lucci was the strongest. He was able to get rid of Zoro and Luffy easily, which would make one assume that neither would stand a chance against his weaker teammates.

 

[afromarco005]

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2020, Original Post Date: May 27, 2020 ---

Zoro wont 2v1 another swordsman sorry.Zoro will beat king 1v1.
Proof he doenst stand a chance???He had enma training and he still has to show asura.

We are talking about the First Commander of the strongest yonko, if you say that Zoro can beat him as he is now you are saying that he is first commander level which is bullshit . As swords skills Zoro sure is better , but that doesn't mean a lot , King can fly and nocked down all of Big Mom ship with just one kick . Enma is a stronger sword than Shusui , but everybody is making it sound like he got an immense upgrade with that . As Zoro is now he is equal or weaker than Queen.
[/QUOTE]
King kicked a ship, Zoro cut one in half.

Why are tyou so sure that Zoro is weak? We know next to nothing about his true strenght.

--- Double Post Merged, May 28, 2020 ---

I am not underestimating Beast Pirates and not King especially. King is a very troublesome opponent who would probably beat any other member of the Alliance aside from Zoro and that is one of the reasons why I think Zoro needs to fight him - because no one else in Wano can.
We are already in the end-game phase where Strawhats are taking not just one Yonko crew but two Yonko crews at the same time.

There is no time for Zoro to gradually improve and he doesnt need to - he doesnt use G4 which has a time limit. He is one of the main combatants that need to take care of the two Emperors and Zoro has too much build-up with Kaido not to participate so to be able to fight Kaido he cannot be stopped by someone like King, he cant go into extreme difficulty against him either because in such state he wouldnt be able to fight Kaido and Zoro has only once gone into extreme difficulty - in Alabasta.

I think Marco isnt coming and even if he comes, he doesnt fight with a weapon so he would be testing the limits of how much he can regenerate which isnt really a wise move against a swordsman. Zoro being stronger than King doesn't mean that King cant offer him a very good fight, on the contrary, he could end up pressuring Zoro with some fire abilities which would prevent Zoro from dominating the fight until he deals with fire...

I think that current luffy beats King high/ mid high diff. He dodges the attacks with advanced observation and deals massive internal blows with his advanced armament.

 

[nik87]

I think that current luffy beats King high/ mid high diff. He dodges the attacks with advanced observation and deals massive internal blows with his advanced armament.

I think King beats him rather easy. FS is overrated on Luffy, it doesnt fit his angry character which results in low up-time.
King's sword is better both offense and defense than Luffy's advanced armament.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think that current luffy beats King high/ mid high diff. He dodges the attacks with advanced observation and deals massive internal blows with his advanced armament.

King is for sure a mid/high-diff for Luffy at this point unless he has some sort of gimmick, but considering if he is being set up for Zoro then I doubt it and King is just a straight forward fighter. And sort of trickery with his abilities and Zoro wouldn't be able to handle it solo

 

[Shasha23]

I think that current luffy beats King high/ mid high diff. He dodges the attacks with advanced observation and deals massive internal blows with his advanced armament.

I doubt that very much, if G4 didnt have a 20-30min active time then i would agree but since it doesn't then Luffy loses, King is an ancient zoan so his durability is way higher than anyone Luffy has beat and even if Luffy knocked him out King would get back up again while Luffy is out of haki from G4.

Well if King is ended a competent swordsman then Luffy loses this, cant see how Luffy can defend King's attacks in a drawn out fight, there is a reason why Oda keeps people who counter Luffy away from him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Well if King is ended a competent swordsman then Luffy loses this, cant see how Luffy can defend King's attacks in a drawn out fight, there is a reason why Oda keeps people who counter Luffy away from him.

Luffy doesnt have a hard counter to his DF, just people who have stronger haki. And Oda doesn't protect Luffy from people with stronger haki so you are 100% wrong here, especially since Luffy already defeated a NW Swordsman

 

[nik87]

Oda protects Luffy from swordsmen, that's why he eats biscuits when he ends up fighting one in 22 years.
Luffy literally cant afford to throw a punch at King because at that moment he joins Shanks at the club of One-Armed Has-Beens.
Even at EoS, Luffy probably wont have an answer for swordsmen and King will be a bad match-up.

 

[Shasha23]

Luffy doesnt have a hard counter to his DF, just people who have stronger haki. And Oda doesn't protect Luffy from people with stronger haki so you are 100% wrong here, especially since Luffy already defeated a NW Swordsman

Luffy own words: im weak vs cutting and stabbing

Everytime Luffy fights someone with those qualities Oda makes that person forget how they fight: Cracker was strong enough to cut Luffy's CoA G4 defence but didnt attack Luffy for 11 hours, Katakuri had mogura but when it counted he didnt use it even though it was the very same thing that was making Luffy run away from him for hours.
Unfortunately i know you will never accept reality

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy own words: im weak vs cutting and stabbing

Everytime Luffy fights someone with those qualities Oda makes that person forget how they fight: Cracker was strong enough to cut Luffy's CoA G4 defence but didnt attack Luffy for 11 hours, Katakuri had mogura but when it counted he didnt use it even though it was the very same thing that was making Luffy run away from him for hours.
Unfortunately i know you will never accept reality

Again, his susecptible to swords. It's not the same as having a weakness. He weak in the sense that he gets cut... like anyone else.. You don't know the difference that thus cannot understand when you being countered.

And you didn't see all 11 hours of this fighr, but Luffy won. Thus a sword was not a deciding factor in the fight... because its just like any other fighting style.

 

[Shasha23]

Again, his susecptible to swords. It's not the same as having a weakness. He weak in the sense that he gets cut... like anyone else.. You don't know the difference that thus cannot understand when you being countered.

And you didn't see all 11 hours of this fighr, but Luffy won. Thus a sword was not a deciding factor in the fight... because its just like any other fighting style.

Is Luffy like everyone else? i seem to remember him being one of a kind rubber man.

Cracker said Luffy keeps eating and running, he never said i keep attacking you and you keep running, unless you can disprove what Cracker said then YES Cracker didnt attack Luffy for 11 hours, he only made biscuits to attack Luffy.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Is Luffy like everyone else? i seem to remember him being one of a kind rubber man.

Cracker said Luffy keeps eating and running, he never said i keep attacking you and you keep running, unless you can disprove what Cracker said then YES Cracker didnt attack Luffy for 11 hours, he only made biscuits to attack Luffy.

Luffy is not the only person in the manga who gets cut when slashed.... think.

Your making up a scenario for a fight that we saw less than 10% of... come on now, think before you post please.

 

[Shasha23]

Luffy is not the only person in the manga who gets cut when slashed.... think.

Your making up a scenario for a fight that we saw less than 10% of... come on now, think before you post please.

Cuts and slashes are the 2 major things that hurt him even he said so, or are you going to say Luffy is lying about what can harm him or not? :0

Did Cracker say Luffy keeps eating and running or did he say something else? :0
Did Luffy and Nami argue when Cracker said Luffy just keeps eating and running? :0

We both know the answers to those questions so please stop your trollish behaviour.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Cuts and slashes are the 2 major things that hurt him even he said so, or are you going to say Luffy is lying about what can harm him or not? :0

Did Cracker say Luffy keeps eating and running or did he say something else? :0
Did Luffy and Nami argue when Cracker said Luffy just keeps eating and running? :0

We both know the answers to those questions so please stop your trollish behaviour.

Was Cracker a swordsman? Yes
Did Luffy defeat him? Yes
Was the sword a deciding factor? No

We both know the answers so YOU please stop saying Luffy is kept away from swordsmen when that is clearly not the case.

Your saying that Cracker said Luffy ran away and came back, but there are no details. But we know he wields his meito so you have to do some next level gymnastics to think Cracker never used his sword that he was not seen without.

 

[M3J]

Why are tyou so sure that Zoro is weak? We know next to nothing about his true strenght.

When was the last time we saw anything close to his true strength? I think when he was fighting Oz? I feel like Zoro could have cut a ship in half pre-timeskip as well, unless he's said he can't do that?

 

[HereNThere]

I really wouldn't use damaging or destroy a ship as a measure of strength.

Anyway, Zoro is strong and hasn't shown his upper limit, but that doesn't automatically mean his upper limit is at the level of a YC1. He was shown training for a reason. He got a stronger sword that'll help develop his haki for a reason. If he fights against King, it'll assuredly be an uphill battle that'll push him to the next level. Otherwise, why bother? Might as well have him go straight to Mihawk if he's that close already.

 

[nik87]

I really wouldn't use damaging or destroy a ship as a measure of strength.

Anyway, Zoro is strong and hasn't shown his upper limit, but that doesn't automatically mean his upper limit is at the level of a YC1. He was shown training for a reason. He got a stronger sword that'll help develop his haki for a reason. If he fights against King, it'll assuredly be an uphill battle that'll push him to the next level. Otherwise, why bother? Might as well have him go straight to Mihawk if he's that close already.

Being at Yc1 or slightly above doesnt really help if you want to take on Mihawk. You gotta be at least stronger than Shanks and even that is not Zoro's goal but its beyond what Mihawk is.

 

[M3J]

I really wouldn't use damaging or destroy a ship as a measure of strength.

Anyway, Zoro is strong and hasn't shown his upper limit, but that doesn't automatically mean his upper limit is at the level of a YC1. He was shown training for a reason. He got a stronger sword that'll help develop his haki for a reason. If he fights against King, it'll assuredly be an uphill battle that'll push him to the next level. Otherwise, why bother? Might as well have him go straight to Mihawk if he's that close already.

Same, especially for someone who was able to lift heavy stuff without an issue.

We don't know how strong Mihawk is, though. Zoro could be Yonkou level and still be inferior to or on the same level as Mihawk for all we know.

 

[King Moe]

Mihawk isn't written as Yonko lvl. He is like inbetween of Admirals and YCs and that being nice given Jozu and Vista dealt with stopping him without much effort compare to a true Yonko.

 

[M3J]

He wasn't written as anything except for extremely powerful. He wasn't hurt in the War, and he was able to go toe-to-toe with a future Emperor. There's no indication to which tier he belongs to, but as a swordsman who gets challenges, he's likely at a high tier.

 

[HereNThere]

We don't know how strong Mihawk is, though. Zoro could be Yonkou level and still be inferior to or on the same level as Mihawk for all we know.

We don't know and I don't disagree. What I was trying to get at is if he's already high tier strong and has been this whole time...then that really isn't interesting nor is it good storytelling. One Piece is about the journey of the Strawhats as they grow stronger and closer to their dreams.

Zoro already being near or above YC1, to me, is kind of like if Luffy allowed Rayleigh to tell him whether or not One Piece exists. The adventure is basically freaking done at that point. And, like Luffy said, that's a boring adventure, not seeing him progress or grow to achieve his dream. He'd basically just be cruising until he reaches Mihawk and be like "Welp, I've already been on the level this whole time, but just wasted time until we could cross paths again to fight it out. BTW, GG I win."