Shounen Bleach by Tite Kubo

[kkck]

I think that was supposed to set up Kisuke.

If Yama wears black then it's game over. I think Ichibei's ink hax is >> Yama's bankai. Though both should've kicked Yhwach's ass but then Almighty bs came along.

Byakuya IMO is the 3rd strongest captain after those 2. Shunsui is the CC, has high battle IQ and like you said, his bankai is broken. Though all are relative I'd say.

I don't know why Renji didn't become a captain but he's definitely strong enough for it. Shinji isn't necessarily a combat fighter though. He's more maneuver and hax. Toshiro is wierd. Was losing pretty badly to Bazz-B but then had powered up greatly against Gerard.

Like I said, the top 5 are agreed by mostly everyone. Ichigo, Yhwach, Ichibei, Yama and Aizen.

Royal Guard as in Squad Zero? Yea I don't buy the whole Squad Zero combined is stronger than the Gotei 13 combined. The only person that individually beats them all is Ichibei with the exception of Yama but he's gone.

I suppose, but the point stands. Ichigo was comfortably beating aizen and based on urahara's explanation aizen was growing weaker as he fought. Ichigo used the final getsuga tensho for no reason other than because kubo needed an excuse to rid ichigo of his power. Dunno why he just didn't make aizen stronger against ichigo tbh...

kinda, but for that to happen ichibei's ink has to either resist or affect yamamoto's flame. if its ink you'd think the fire around yamamoto would get rid of it.... Then again, maybe ichibei can write on incorporeal things. Honestly, we just can't know.

Honestly, it's just shikai to shikai I see byakuya winning the fight. And byakuya probably has the stronger reiatsu in general... To me its just bankai where there is some ambiguity here.

Honestly, I could see squad zero combined being stronger than the gotei 13. it's at the individual level where i think things get weird... you have ichibei, nimaiya, tenjiro, kirio and senjumaru on one end... And in the gotei 13 when the arc started you have yamamoto, suifeng, rose, unohana, shinji, byakuya, komamura, shunsui, kensei, hitsugaya, kenpachi, mayuri and ukitake... Out of those the strongest ones were without a doubt yamamoto and unohana and shunsui being worth a mention. but at the time a single royal guard could have taken out 4 or 5 of them (depending on which one). It's through training and shenanigans that the captains kinda turn the tables a bit. byakuya through royal guard training, kenpachi becoming well stronger than unohana even without shikai...

 

[Ramen]

kinda, but for that to happen ichibei's ink has to either resist or affect yamamoto's flame. if its ink you'd think the fire around yamamoto would get rid of it.... Then again, maybe ichibei can write on incorporeal things. Honestly, we just can't know.

Doesn't Ichibei just control everything black from a far? Given from what he said to Yhwach. That or he blitzes Yama, he has better speed feats.

Spoiler: Ichimonji

Honestly, I could see squad zero combined being stronger than the gotei 13. it's at the individual level where i think things get weird... you have ichibei, nimaiya, tenjiro, kirio and senjumaru on one end... And in the gotei 13 when the arc started you have yamamoto, suifeng, rose, unohana, shinji, byakuya, komamura, shunsui, kensei, hitsugaya, kenpachi, mayuri and ukitake... Out of those the strongest ones were without a doubt yamamoto and unohana and shunsui being worth a mention. but at the time a single royal guard could have taken out 4 or 5 of them (depending on which one). It's through training and shenanigans that the captains kinda turn the tables a bit. byakuya through royal guard training, kenpachi becoming well stronger than unohana even without shikai...

Do you think Yhwach's elite forces could solo the Gotei 13?

If you ask me it would go:

Ichibei>>Yama>>>Zaraki and Shunsui>everyone else. But Tenjiro was able to blitz behind Sui Feng so there's that. I don't know, I just wasn't that impressed with them since they got beaten pretty easily by the elite sternritters.

Honestly, it's just shikai to shikai I see byakuya winning the fight. And byakuya probably has the stronger reiatsu in general... To me its just bankai where there is some ambiguity here.

Really? If it's a sword fight, I don't think he could last against the other 2. You're probably right about the shikai. Though Zaraki in bankai could blitz Byakuya with ease and Shunsui bankai is too broken. I think that's what makes them so far ahead of Byakua.

 

[kkck]

Doesn't Ichibei just control everything black from a far? Given from what he said to Yhwach. That or he blitzes Yama, he has better speed feats.

Spoiler: Ichimonji

Do you think Yhwach's elite forces could solo the Gotei 13?

If you ask me it would go:

Ichibei>>Yama>>>Zaraki and Shunsui>everyone else. But Tenjiro was able to blitz behind Sui Feng so there's that. I don't know, I just wasn't that impressed with them since they got beaten pretty easily by the elite sternritters.



Really? If it's a sword fight, I don't think he could last against the other 2. You're probably right about the shikai. Though Zaraki in bankai could blitz Byakuya with ease and Shunsui bankai is too broken. I think that's what makes them so far ahead of Byakua.

But... how does that apply to yamamoto? He is a living sun basically, the opposite of black. Honestly, no idea on what black is supposed to be in this context...

Probably? Most of them were defeated either by bullshit or not defeated at all. Askin was defeated by urahara... who had tools, yoruichi's help, a bankai which did stuff for him and plenty of support. Pernida was defeated by mayuri.... who is about as plot powered as urahara. And only after it ate nemu. Otherwise damaging him didn't do much of anything. As in, kenpachi probably would not have been able to defeat it.... Shunsui "defeated" lile but the guy continued fighting well after that. And gerard took the combined might of byakuya, fan powered hitsugaya and kenpachi's bankai and still didn't die. He only died because of the selection... so yeah, it took them getting powered up by juhabach but they probably could defeat the entire gotei 13.

Byakuya did get a substantial power up from his royal training... If he got to the point where his shikai can be confused with a bankai then his reiatsu is magnitudes above where it was before. his swordsmanship, speed and strength should benefit from that as well. I could see byakuya handling shunsui with pure swordsmanship. Though I don't see him doing that to zaraki... zaraki is just a literal monster. I suppose it could be interesting to see what byakuya's hakuteiken vs zaraki's bankai though I still see zaraki having an edge. BYakuya could win if he manages to survive until zaraki runs out of juice though. Maybe shunsui would be more suited to handling zaraki in this regard, if his shikai is able to force zaraki into following rules to deal damage and zaraki is too out of control to follow them though.

 

[Ramen]

But... how does that apply to yamamoto? He is a living sun basically, the opposite of black. Honestly, no idea on what black is supposed to be in this context...

Are his clothes not black?

Probably? Most of them were defeated either by bullshit or not defeated at all. Askin was defeated by urahara... who had tools, yoruichi's help, a bankai which did stuff for him and plenty of support. Pernida was defeated by mayuri.... who is about as plot powered as urahara. And only after it ate nemu. Otherwise damaging him didn't do much of anything. As in, kenpachi probably would not have been able to defeat it.... Shunsui "defeated" lile but the guy continued fighting well after that. And gerard took the combined might of byakuya, fan powered hitsugaya and kenpachi's bankai and still didn't die. He only died because of the selection... so yeah, it took them getting powered up by juhabach but they probably could defeat the entire gotei 13.

Yea I don't agree with this.

Byakuya did get a substantial power up from his royal training... If he got to the point where his shikai can be confused with a bankai then his reiatsu is magnitudes above where it was before. his swordsmanship, speed and strength should benefit from that as well. I could see byakuya handling shunsui with pure swordsmanship. Though I don't see him doing that to zaraki... zaraki is just a literal monster. I suppose it could be interesting to see what byakuya's hakuteiken vs zaraki's bankai though I still see zaraki having an edge. BYakuya could win if he manages to survive until zaraki runs out of juice though. Maybe shunsui would be more suited to handling zaraki in this regard, if his shikai is able to force zaraki into following rules to deal damage and zaraki is too out of control to follow them though.

Zaraki never runs out of juice lol. Wish we would've been able to see that Yhwach fight against him.

 

[kkck]

Are his clothes not black?



Yea I don't agree with this.



Zaraki never runs out of juice lol. Wish we would've been able to see that Yhwach fight against him.

Sure, but is yamamoto's uniform enough to give ichibei that sort of advantage? That seems like a stretch to me.

Ok but.... why? Juhabach's elite guard was in fact mostly shown to be unkillable. Even askin, who was killable, took 4 people to put down. Pernida was defeated basically by accident... And lile and gerard were never properly defeated by gotei 13 members. Lile even fell from the royal palace, which is absurd.

Except when he does? He used his bankai against gerard until it damaged his body. And even that was not enough against gerard...

 

[Ramen]

Sure, but is yamamoto's uniform enough to give ichibei that sort of advantage? That seems like a stretch to me.

I mean, they are black. That or Ichibei wins the minute their swords clash. Ichibei is faster than Yama so he can dodge his aura and bankai until they clash.

Ok but.... why? Juhabach's elite guard was in fact mostly shown to be unkillable. Even askin, who was killable, took 4 people to put down. Pernida was defeated basically by accident... And lile and gerard were never properly defeated by gotei 13 members. Lile even fell from the royal palace, which is absurd.

Because of how easilt they were defeated. They were hyped like crazy when they were first introduced. These 5 shinigami combined were stronger than the whole Gotei 13 but then got stomped by the the sternritters. If it was a close call then I would agree but it wasn't.

Except when he does? He used his bankai against gerard until it damaged his body. And even that was not enough against gerard...

He never used his bankai before. If he was to fight any other captain, nobody is pushing him like that the way Gerard did.

 

[kkck]

I mean, they are black. That or Ichibei wins the minute their swords clash. Ichibei is faster than Yama so he can dodge his aura and bankai until they clash.



Because of how easilt they were defeated. They were hyped like crazy when they were first introduced. These 5 shinigami combined were stronger than the whole Gotei 13 but then got stomped by the the sternritters. If it was a close call then I would agree but it wasn't.



He never used his bankai before. If he was to fight any other captain, nobody is pushing him like that the way Gerard did.

But... most of the elite sternriter weren't defeated. Askin was arguably the least dangerous but in turn it took yoruichi, urahara and grimjow to defeat... Along with a rescue from nel. Pernida was defeated pretty much by accident. Lile took the full blunt of shunsui's bankai and nanao's insanely convenient shikai and even then he simply fell to sereitei and continued his wacky shenanigans. An gerard took the full blunt of zaraki's bankai, byakuya's bankai and hitsugaya's bankai and continued fighting as if nothing happened. Juhabach's elite guard was effectively immortal.... And had everything in their favor when they were fighitng the gotei 13. The fact is that post selection the elite guard was not easily defeated. It took extreme effort, accidents and even then its a fact that lile and gerard simply weren't defeated. Shunsui was lucky lile fell to sereitei...

 

[Ramen]

But... most of the elite sternriter weren't defeated. Askin was arguably the least dangerous but in turn it took yoruichi, urahara and grimjow to defeat... Along with a rescue from nel. Pernida was defeated pretty much by accident. Lile took the full blunt of shunsui's bankai and nanao's insanely convenient shikai and even then he simply fell to sereitei and continued his wacky shenanigans. An gerard took the full blunt of zaraki's bankai, byakuya's bankai and hitsugaya's bankai and continued fighting as if nothing happened. Juhabach's elite guard was effectively immortal.... And had everything in their favor when they were fighitng the gotei 13. The fact is that post selection the elite guard was not easily defeated. It took extreme effort, accidents and even then its a fact that lile and gerard simply weren't defeated. Shunsui was lucky lile fell to sereitei...

I was referring to Squad Zero.

 

[kkck]

Ah, but your question was:

Do you think Yhwach's elite forces could solo the Gotei 13?

With the zero squad, i really think it depends because the squad in a way got stronger after shunsui took over. Shunsui sacrificed unohana but in return got zaraki, who could defeat unohana without even using shikai.... And then he learned shikai and bankai. Byakuya played a rather huge role in the war, being able to take on pretty much hoards of sternriter on his own. Renji also became capable of taking on sternriter that were worth over 2 captains... Since he defeate volstandig mask and also fought bazzb (though that was off screen and I can't recall the exact circumstances). Even rukia became a pretty big asset, though she only defeated nodt and her power seemed rather unstable.

 

[Ramen]

Ah, but your question was:



With the zero squad, i really think it depends because the squad in a way got stronger after shunsui took over. Shunsui sacrificed unohana but in return got zaraki, who could defeat unohana without even using shikai.... And then he learned shikai and bankai. Byakuya played a rather huge role in the war, being able to take on pretty much hoards of sternriter on his own. Renji also became capable of taking on sternriter that were worth over 2 captains... Since he defeate volstandig mask and also fought bazzb (though that was off screen and I can't recall the exact circumstances). Even rukia became a pretty big asset, though she only defeated nodt and her power seemed rather unstable.

Oh didn't realize you were answering the question. Maybe if Ichibei faced the sternritters the outcome would've been different.

Out of all the sternritters, I think Gerard is the only "tough" match. Not to say the others ain't weak.

 

[kkck]

Oh didn't realize you were answering the question. Maybe if Ichibei faced the sternritters the outcome would've been different.

Out of all the sternritters, I think Gerard is the only "tough" match. Not to say the others ain't weak.

Realistically speaking ichibei is the only shinigami that might have a shot against gerard... Since he can outright write of his strength. But gerard might also be the heart of the soul king so who knows if ichibei could overwrite that. And I maintain my point that lile and pernida were pretty much immortal and never properly defeated by shinigami.

 

[Ramen]

Realistically speaking ichibei is the only shinigami that might have a shot against gerard... Since he can outright write of his strength. But gerard might also be the heart of the soul king so who knows if ichibei could overwrite that. And I maintain my point that lile and pernida were pretty much immortal and never properly defeated by shinigami.

I don't understand the end of Mayuri vs Pernida.

 

[kkck]

I don't understand the end of Mayuri vs Pernida.

IIRC what happened was... the two of them fought and at some point pernida even began to multiply. As in, there were several of him around. Then nemu did her thing and was eaten. Which is not exactly something which mayuri planned or meant to do. At which point the shenanigans within nemu caused pernida to die. But overall the bulk of what mayuri tried was largely ineffective against pernida. And if you have pernida multiplying as the fight goes on... that's a pretty shitty scenario. Overall, very few shinigami could hope to kill pernida. With enough raw power its possible but its not necessarily the case.

 

[XXGenesis]

Ichebi can rewrite anyone's name, or take their power from them. Only Ywach was able to grant himself powers again or negate ichebi's power.

I'm a Kenpachi fan boi, so I like to Believe he could defeat Yamamoto. & theirs actually evidence that supports my claim but w/e I'll settle for 3rd strongest shinigami xD

Byakuya is indeed a force to be reckoned but Shunsui & Kenpachi are juss different...Shunsui's bankia is weird as hell...but he's not outlasting Kenpachi lml..bankia backfire..

Hitsugaya..umm super Ass pull, but he was strong.........=/ lol Hitsugaya juss became such a MeMe

 

[Ramen]

Ichebi can rewrite anyone's name, or take their power from them. Only Ywach was able to grant himself powers again or negate ichebi's power.

I'm a Kenpachi fan boi, so I like to Believe he could defeat Yamamoto. & theirs actually evidence that supports my claim but w/e I'll settle for 3rd strongest shinigami xD

Byakuya is indeed a force to be reckoned but Shunsui & Kenpachi are juss different...Shunsui's bankia is weird as hell...but he's not outlasting Kenpachi lml..bankia backfire..

Hitsugaya..umm super Ass pull, but he was strong.........=/ lol Hitsugaya juss became such a MeMe

Zaraki isn't beating Yama

 

[XXGenesis]

Zaraki isn't beating Yama

Yes he is. Lol. He's an anomaly character that can break the rules of the universe. Aka He's as strong as the story wants him to be i.e Bankia destroyed his body...he has no limit

Yama wasnt one of the 5 War potential characters..Zaraki was...along with Aizen & others..I told you I was a fan boi..you must want to get troll'd lmao, I wasnt kidding lol

Speaking of Aizen-tiachou. He's easily under ichibei for 3rd overall strongest character in the series..

 

[Ramen]

Yes he is. Lol. He's an anomaly character that can break the rules of the universe. Aka He's as strong as the story wants him to be i.e Bankia destroyed his body...he has no limit

Yama wasnt one of the 5 War potential characters..Zaraki was...along with Aizen & others..I told you I was a fan boi..you must want to get troll'd lmao, I wasnt kidding lol

Speaking of Aizen-tiachou. He's easily under ichibei for 3rd overall strongest character in the series..

Ok so what I'm getting from you is that no matter what I say, you're going to say Zaraki regardless. Ok

 

[XXGenesis]

Ok so what I'm getting from you is that no matter what I say, you're going to say Zaraki regardless. Ok

Exactamundo...I love Eye Patch taichou over all. nobody forget it. I'm going to a tad annoying during the return xD

 

[Ramen]

Exactamundo...I love Eye Patch taichou over all. nobody forget it. I'm going to a tad annoying during the return xD

By all means go ahead.

 

[Ramen]

Doing a re-read of the series, wish we saw more fights with Yamamoto. Also, I have a new found love for Grimmjow.