If I remember correctly, there was a decrease in sales and something about a live action movie so they forced him to finish it ASAP. Obviously he wasn't able to do it the way he wanted to so it being rushed forced more decreases in sales and for people to hate it.
IMO only Murata is at the level of Kubo in terms of character design and art. Would have been great for Bleach to have taken a slower pace and properly flesh out the characters. Even then, there were so many loose ends for characters or things introduced way back when.
I would've picked TBYW. My favourite character was introduced lol.
If I remember correctly, there was a decrease in sales and something about a live action movie so they forced him to finish it ASAP. Obviously he wasn't able to do it the way he wanted to so it being rushed forced more decreases in sales and for people to hate it.
Interesting, a lot of people powerscale Ichibei but not come across many people who speak about their favourite bleach characters coming from the last arc.
Genuinely thought it would be Askin.
Someone should pick up on the royal guards and give them a good showing. Nimaiya was legit what youd expect a Royal guard to be. You enemy. You dead.
Interesting, a lot of people powerscale Ichibei but not come across many people who speak about their favourite bleach characters coming from the last arc.
Genuinely thought it would be Askin.
Someone should pick up on the royal guards and give them a good showing. Nimaiya was legit what youd expect a Royal guard to be. You enemy. You dead.
Thanks for the info about the games forms, didn't realise they were what ifs.
Im not sure Kubo really knew where to take Ichigo at that point. From that point onwards, there was never a moment where you actually felt scared for Ichigo, I think some fans probably got more hyped for him to die so that an actual cooler version of him appeared. The only arc that had some form of consequence was the final arc and even then, it was handled very poorly.
Hmm, on the characters, I feel Kubo did some of them justice and some of them were just thrown by the wayside. I feel Kubo tried to tackle some heavy issues but as you said, there were too many characters and there wasn't much he could have done given he was rushed. Bleach would have been better off not a shounen tbf.
I don't even think Ichigo ever got character development, yeah he accepted all sides of his powers but its not like he ever held anything against anyone. He was such a rollercoaster of a character and I can't really pinpoint a moment where I thought this is Ichigo growing for the long run.
No problem. Funnily enough, since the topic of Senkei was brought up, they've recently done another What If, this time with an Advanced Bankai form for Byakuya. So that's probably going to be the next batch of special characters after they get through with the Sternritter.
Yeah, it's strange. Ichigo never really had a real trajectory as a protagonist. He was different, which is fine, but he still needed something for us to hope he achieves. Hell, even if he had Kira Yoshikage syndrome and just wanted to take out all of the antagonists so he could live his regular life, that would've worked fine for the type of character he was. There's also the issue that, well, Kubo made everyone else around Ichigo much more interesting than he was. We went through a large portion of the last arc without Ichigo even being around and, from what I recall, he was not missed by the fandom. The final arc was a missed opportunity because that was the one time where Ichigo (and Uryu) actually had a real reason to fight the antagonist. Ywach is responsible for his mom's death. Yet, we didn't get much from that. Ichigo didn't really care at all.
Don't get me wrong, I think Kubo is brilliant when it comes to characters, their backstories, and their thematic nature. You can tell he puts a lot of thought into them, from what their designs say about them to what their abilities say about them. He's great...but he just didn't put them in a story that was equally as great. But, yep, there were way too many and often times, a certain selection of them just pulled focus from both other characters and the story itself. Bleach could've worked as a Shounen, but a montly Seinen probably would've been much better for Kubo's style of storytelling.
I've seen analysis upon analysis of folks describing his character development and I can't even remember their arguments. That's how weak his character development is, in my opinion.
Orihime is bad. I really dislike what Kubo did with her.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Also, to set the record straight since the news of it kind of slipped by, Jump didn't end Bleach. Kubo chose to end Bleach. He was super stressed and nearly screwed up his arm permanently during the last few years of the series. He had to end it sooner than he wanted because he was basically a mess. It's why he kinda disappeared from the spotlight after it ended, he was recovering. This had came out like a year or so after the series ended when he did an interview or popped up during one of the conventions.
Also, to set the record straight since the news of it kind of slipped by, Jump didn't end Bleach. Kubo chose to end Bleach. He was super stressed and nearly screwed up his arm permanently during the last few years of the series. He had to end it sooner than he wanted because he was basically a mess. It's why he kinda disappeared from the spotlight after it ended, he was recovering. This had came out like a year or so after the series ended when he did an interview.
Theres a video I saw that said the Royal Guard were simply introduced to get wrecked. Ichibei and Ywach were illogical, like I grant myself power as an Ant...
Its hard to even by the end know what the last arc was even getting at. Can someone enlighten me as Im confused who was right in the end... The arc started nice and mysterious... Im still confused as to what happened with young Ichigo.
Its hard to even by the end know what the last arc was even getting at. Can someone enlighten me as Im confused who was right in the end... The arc started nice and mysterious... Im still confused as to what happened with young Ichigo.
No problem. Funnily enough, since the topic of Senkei was brought up, they've recently done another What If, this time with an Advanced Bankai form for Byakuya. So that's probably going to be the next batch of special characters after they get through with the Sternritter.
Thats interesting, would love to see the designs. I don't really have a response on Senkei as quite out of my depth there.
Yeah, it's strange. Ichigo never really had a real trajectory as a protagonist. He was different, which is fine, but he still needed something for us to hope he achieves. Hell, even if he had Kira Yoshikage syndrome and just wanted to take out all of the antagonists so he could live his regular life, that would've worked fine for the type of character he was. There's also the issue that, well, Kubo made everyone else around Ichigo much more interesting than he was. We went through a large portion of the last arc without Ichigo even being around and, from what I recall, he was not missed by the fandom. The final arc was a missed opportunity because that was the one time where Ichigo (and Uryu) actually had a real reason to fight the antagonist. Ywach is responsible for his mom's death. Yet, we didn't get much from that. Ichigo didn't really care at all.
Don't get me wrong, I think Kubo is brilliant when it comes to characters, their backstories, and their thematic nature. You can tell he puts a lot of thought into them, from what their designs say about them to what their abilities say about them. He's great...but he just didn't put them in a story that was equally as great. But, yep, there were way too many and often times, a certain selection of them just pulled focus from both other characters and the story itself. Bleach could've worked as a Shounen, but a montly Seinen probably would've been much better for Kubo's style of storytelling.
I agree fully, maybe he would have had some time to flesh out their characters a bit more. I felt more for Yamaji and his VC than I ever did for Ichigos friendship circle. They were just so bland.
Byakuya would have been an interesting protagonist, he was torn between tradition and his personal feelings, would have been great to see how that played out. Even Ichigo and Rukia who spent a lot of time together, barely grew their relationship. It was the same when they first met as it was during the final arc.
You expect characters like Aizen to remain stagnant but even he grew in the end.
We even had a character in Grimmjow/Kenpachi who were a more aggressive form of Ichigo. They both loved fighting but you grow with them as characters. Its weird for the main character to be the way Ichigo was.
Tbh, the only thing that was interesting about Ichigo was how his powers would look in Bankai after the last arc. I've spent countless hours trying to imagine that.
I've seen analysis upon analysis of folks describing his character development and I can't even remember their arguments. That's how weak his character development is, in my opinion.
He was definitely up and down. For example, he showed great understanding of Aizen during their fight but then immediately goes back into being an immature kid who simply lusts for power.
I liked the full-bring arc because it showed how weak someone who is power hungry can get. It showed Ichigo at his lowest but never really built on that. It was like most of that never happened after he regained his powers. Like a bad dream.
Tsukishima mindfucked him to no end yet he had no lasting trauma after that. Its like after every arc he was a blank slate again.
Orihime is bad. I really dislike what Kubo did with her.
I think only Yoroichi was remotely respectable as female character and Masaki once we learnt more about her. She seemed like a legit badass. That image of her one shotting white is still epic.
Also, to set the record straight since the news of it kind of slipped by, Jump didn't end Bleach. Kubo chose to end Bleach. He was super stressed and nearly screwed up his arm permanently during the last few years of the series. He had to end it sooner than he wanted because he was basically a mess. It's why he kinda disappeared from the spotlight after it ended, he was recovering. This had came out like a year or so after the series ended when he did an interview or popped up during one of the conventions.
Whoa thats sad, I don't think i'll ever understand a Mangakas life. Comic book writes make it seem like its a fun hobby. Its good that Shounen Jump aren't the bad guys. Do you have a link to that interview, id like to drop this grudge I have against them.
The guy didn't even release his sword and managed to oneshot the whole elite sternritters (2/3 for Askin). And he was truly brutal, reminded me of Byakuya slicing his hand off when fighting that Espada (cant fully remember his name, Zomari?)
Its weird discussing Bleach, so much emotion but the moment you attempt to powerscale you get lost. You think too deeply about the last arc you walk out with more questions.
Do you all think that the Zero squad could actually defeat the Gotei. Not just current captains but the strongest captains to be in each Squad.
For example, including Aizen/Urahara/Isshin/Yoroichi in their respective squads? I know powerscaling is difficult but for the sake of debate, what your thoughts?
I agree fully, maybe he would have had some time to flesh out their characters a bit more. I felt more for Yamaji and his VC than I ever did for Ichigos friendship circle. They were just so bland.
Byakuya would have been an interesting protagonist, he was torn between tradition and his personal feelings, would have been great to see how that played out. Even Ichigo and Rukia who spent a lot of time together, barely grew their relationship. It was the same when they first met as it was during the final arc.
You expect characters like Aizen to remain stagnant but even he grew in the end.
We even had a character in Grimmjow/Kenpachi who were a more aggressive form of Ichigo. They both loved fighting but you grow with them as characters. Its weird for the main character to be the way Ichigo was.
Tbh, the only thing that was interesting about Ichigo was how his powers would look in Bankai after the last arc. I've spent countless hours trying to imagine that.
I honestly can't think of a good protagonist trade for Bleach, without uprooting the entire series. The better characters are on the Shinigami side and they have their own thing going on. Uryu would be a close second, but he has his own underdevelopment issues, despite him being my favorite from Ichigo's little circle.
Yeah, everyone except the main heroes got major development, or at the very least, reveals about their character that gave them an incredible amount of depth.
I personally think Ichigo had the most bland power set. Maybe if he used his weapon more like his Hollow Side, it would've been cool, but he rarely did.
I think only Yoroichi was remotely respectable as female character and Masaki once we learnt more about her. She seemed like a legit badass. That image of her one shotting white is still epic.
Whoa thats sad, I don't think i'll ever understand a Mangakas life. Comic book writes make it seem like its a fun hobby. Its good that Shounen Jump aren't the bad guys. Do you have a link to that interview, id like to drop this grudge I have against them.
I honestly can't think of a good protagonist trade for Bleach, without uprooting the entire series. The better characters are on the Shinigami side and they have their own thing going on. Uryu would be a close second, but he has his own underdevelopment issues, despite him being my favorite from Ichigo's little circle.
Tsukishima IMO would have been good or Renji (he learnt to overcome his inferiority complex).
I think even Kenpachi would have been more justifiable as we could have gone on a journey with him. Ulquirra as well. And I agree, you would have to uproot a lot of the plot but it would be for the better. Majority of characters would not need to shift.
Grimmjow was a more interesting Ichigo than Ichigo was.
Unpopular opinion, but even following the fullbringers struggle would have been interesting.
Yeah, everyone except the main heroes got major development, or at the very least, reveals about their character that gave them an incredible amount of depth.
I personally think Ichigo had the most bland power set. Maybe if he used his weapon more like his Hollow Side, it would've been cool, but he rarely did.
His powerset is more bland than the Rasengan spam. I still to this day don't understand what made Ichigo so dangerous. All he ever did was shoot an energy wave (and a cero once). The most dangerous he has ever been is only when his hollow takes over. I guess discussing Ichigo will end up hitting a wall of mediocrity.
I'd count Sui Feng and EoS Rukia as well. I also liked Liltotto and Giselle. They were late comers, but they had some great moments.
Uff, I'd always assume kubo was pressured to end bleach by his editors or something... It makes sense he was actually struggling with mental health issues at the time. I wonder how kubo himself feels about the bleach ending. Perhaps the tiniest shred of hope that he might at some point in the future put some time into bleach again is not entirely unwarranted. Though if we go by that then perhaps he needs to actually get a life outside of work before he commits to anything again.
Do you all think that the Zero squad could actually defeat the Gotei. Not just current captains but the strongest captains to be in each Squad.
For example, including Aizen/Urahara/Isshin/Yoroichi in their respective squads? I know powerscaling is difficult but for the sake of debate, what your thoughts?
The Zero Squad vs the entire Gotei captains? That's a tough one really. Are we talking about captains at their peak + Yama Jii? It is really difficult to scale. Ichibei's ability is broken, Nimaiya is also broken. Honestly, there was a lot of BS pulling in the last arc. Considering Squad Zero aren't facing Quincy with their weird inexplicable plot-induced opness, it is quite difficult to see them losing
The Zero Squad vs the entire Gotei captains? That's a tough one really. Are we talking about captains at their peak + Yama Jii? It is really difficult to scale. Ichibei's ability is broken, Nimaiya is also broken. Honestly, there was a lot of BS pulling in the last arc. Considering Squad Zero aren't facing Quincy with their weird inexplicable plot-induced opness, it is quite difficult to see them losing
The 7th and 9th division seem to be the weakest links. But these guys vs The Elite Guard...
To your point, yeah, its hard to see how most of them could survive Nimaiya. But Yama is definetely one they aren't touching IMO.
(This is my excuse to have Yama vs all )
Probably Komamura's. Komamura, because, despite his words to Tousen, ended up going down the same path his former friend and acknowledges his own hypocrisy.
Do you all think that the Zero squad could actually defeat the Gotei. Not just current captains but the strongest captains to be in each Squad.
For example, including Aizen/Urahara/Isshin/Yoroichi in their respective squads? I know powerscaling is difficult but for the sake of debate, what your thoughts?
Yes. Ichibei alone is too much of a monster for the majority of the Captains. Yamamoto and Aizen would be the only real heavy hitters that have enough versatility to withstand the onslaught of hax. Those 4 plus Yamamoto would even things out, but individually, I don't think they could stand up to the Royal Guard.
Funnily enough, you say that the 9th is the weakest link, but Tousen's bankai would probably be a decent help in this scenario, lol. They need all the advantages they could get.
I don't have a phone so hopefully when I do get a smartphone, il be all over Bleach brave souls.
Probably Komamura's. Komamura, because, despite his words to Tousen, ended up going down the same path his former friend and acknowledges his own hypocrisy.
Oof, thats a deep one. Never would have considered him.
I was more going for Kenpachi and Kyouraku.
Yes. Ichibei alone is too much of a monster for the majority of the Captains. Yamamoto and Aizen would be the only real heavy hitters that have enough versatility to withstand the onslaught of hax. Those 4 plus Yamamoto would even things out, but individually, I don't think they could stand up to the Royal Guard.
Thats true actually, thinking about how they all interact, Kyouraku and Tousen would just be a mess for the whole team because their Bankais are not friendly. They'd have to end the fight pretty quickly before Yamato accidentally fries all of them.
Hitsugays flash freeze as well as Rukia can be quite dangerous as well.
Tbf, the Zero squads abilities seem to compliment each other quite well. Theyd have to be isolated and taken out by groups.
Funnily enough, you say that the 9th is the weakest link, but Tousen's bankai would probably be a decent help in this scenario, lol. They need all the advantages they could get.
The 7th and 9th division seem to be the weakest links. But these guys vs The Elite Guard...
To your point, yeah, its hard to see how most of them could survive Nimaiya. But Yama is definetely one they aren't touching IMO.
(This is my excuse to have Yama vs all )
If it's the gotei 13 with all members at their prime I would lean towards the gotei 13 over the royal guard. It is worth noting that the full power of the royal guard remains unknown since we only saw one of their bankai but towards the end a substantial number of gotei 13 members underwent massive powerups.
The first and most noteworthy is kenpachi... Who got to a point where he could own bankai unohana in his base form. Then he went up against a guy who could manipulate reality and got his shikai, which we know represents a huge powerup for a shinigami. And then on top of that bankai, which was too powerful for his own damn good. Kenpachi is just grotesquely OP.
Byakuya seems less insane than kenpachi but his powerup was no less absurd. After his royal training he could wield his shikai as if it was his bankai. With even more power even... His bankai of course was proportionally absurd. He could solo on his own multiple sternritter who previously had no trouble holding his own against regular ass captains.
Hitsugaya's predictable but lame reveal made him appear about on league with byakuya along with allowing him to harness the scream of fangirls across the globe for power.
Rukia seems behind the previous 3 but her shikai is clearly enough to wreck an average captain. Her bankai is probably inadequate for group fights though, along with it being basically a risky one hit wonder.
I will also note that kirinji and hyosube could potentially survive being frozen given their BS abilities though.
Ishin is a bit of a wildcard to me. The guy was able to take on freaking aizen... something which the gotei 13 failed to do.
Kyoraku to me is sort of a situational fighter. His base abilities of course are insanely high but his shikai is risky. His bankai is perhaps more dangerous than your average bankai in relation to the power of the captain but it's also insanely risky and inadequate for group fights.
Urahara IMO is overrated as a fighter. His base abilities to me seem like they would be around average for a captain. He is versatile as a combatant of course but where urahara ultimately excels is outside of combat, with his preparedness and inventions. IMO urahara's overall combat capacity is about comparable to pre royal training byakuya otherwise.
Aizen being in the list is kinda ridiculous. The guy could take on half the gotei 13 on his own...
Yamamoto seems like pretty much the strongest shinigami there is, though I don't rule out end of story kenpachi giving him a run for his money.
Overall I lean towards the gotei 13 if we pick the strongest possible candidates though it is worth noting that we didn't see squad zero members use their bankai for the most part and they could potentially be insane enough to overcome the sheer hax the gotei 13 acquired at the end.
)