Chapter Tower of God Chapter 485 Spoilers & Discussion

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Are you guys seriously arguing that Dowon is Eurasia? Lmao you guys are like Stephen A. Smith on First Take debating the most redundant topics. We clearly were told that she was from that ancient flower kingdom so idk why this is even a debate lmao Next y’all will be arguing about something crazy again like “Bam is really the FATHER of Urek Mazino and he sent Urek to the tower to find Phant because Phant took his ice cream” lmfao

Yes, yes we are. I'd say you had a hot take on it but you clearly don't.

 

[Blink22]

The meltdown on this forum if Dowon is officially revealed as a Eurasia or not by SIU will be something to watch.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

The meltdown on this forum if Dowon is officially revealed as a Eurasia or not by SIU will be something to watch.

To be fair, some here can't distinguish a difference between:

- Dowon COULD BE Eurasian and here's why... (plenty of room left for it to not be so)

And

- Dowon with 100% certainty is not Eurasian and here's why... (a statement of fact with no room for being wrong)

So, I wouldn't actually be surprised at all to learn she wasn't. Personally I just haven't seen a convincing argument against it yet. OTOH, those arguing against the idea argue with certainty something they simply don't know. Which is foolish.




Just like those that said if was IMPOSSIBURU! that Kallavan would ever fight for Baam.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 1, 2020 ---

Complementing:
-We've seen Dowon's father, but never his mother.

- No one in your kingdom showed a hair color similar to her and Khane.

-She says she entered this war (genesis) for her father's revenge.

Just put the pieces together.

Precisely. Although I do think I recall her father having pink hair but I could be misremembering. IMO, it is clear that the FLOWER and WC power Dowon and her sister share - along with the characteristically pink hair and eyes of a Eurasian, exist as a strong bloodline within her peach kingdom. IMO, it was handed down from Eurasia at some point and her father is a DD and she's in turn a descendant too.

Either way, it's not like anyone can actually answer the following with a chapter or panel:

- show the panel that indicates the peach kingdom existed prior to Blossom entering the tower (not that this would rule it out because see below Q's)
- how long did it take Blossom to climb?
- what has been hinted at as a very long time, on the verge of potentially thousands of years, what did Blossom do or not do during that time?
- why couldn't an irregular superpower found or involve themselves with a kingdom during such a potentially long period a la White in the middle period?
- why could her offspring not be a strong bloodline left in the kingdom from a previous fling up the tower?

so the 'but but but ancient flower kingdom!' isn't really an argument and says nothing at all. And?

Beyond that, and more to your point - Blossom fucks. It's a fact. She has kids, so we know she's not like Yeon Hana. She's also a lazy person, most likely a deadbeat like the other 10FH - if anyone would be one, and many seem to be (deadbeats), she'd be one. EVEN IF she didn't found the kingdom (I think there's plenty of unaccounted for time for it to be a possibility) then she still could have had a romance with someone in the kingdom on her way up. JUST LIKE all the other FH's having children with the natives. Perhaps, being a flower lover herself, she was attracted to the so-called 'peach blossom kingdom' due to its titular trees. And perhaps, and this isn't even a long-shot crazy idea, she mated with someone in the kingdom and left her progeny/bloodline in it. Which continued much like, say, the phonsekal branch, to pass down the very dominant genes of being a pink haired/eyed WC with flower powers in that kingdom that clearly not others in the kingdom were privy too - it was an elite bloodline in the kingdom, fact.

None of which is unreasonable in the slightest. Some here act like they know her (Blossom's) every action and whereabouts for the completely unexplained, long-term, unaccounted for climb/adventure the original irregulars had. Like, CCTV was on her the entire time don't you know? Completely impossible she had kids on some floor and those descendants became Dowon and her sister, Canne (also a flower/named after a lily) with her characteristic traits of pink/pink, flower, WCs for the females in the family - like, um, Dowon and her sister. Go figure.

If you can't get your head around her founding a kingdom (which, again, there was enough time and precedent for - not like Arie Hon lives in a literal castle on 100F or anything...) before your belief (read: assumption, not undisputed fact at all) of it being possible chronologically (as if SIU has given us a timeline of the unaccounted for 20k++ years lol. Hint: more than possible, even probable), then you can at least get your head around the idea of Blossom fucking. That's not even up for debate because she has. Unlike other nonfactual claims of what isn't up for debate...

Dowon can be a proto-Enne just like White is likely a proto-Hon, AA is a proto-Edwan and Yuri is a proto-Yurin. Having some previous versions of certain characters, specially in tales of Gods, we can create intimacy with a character and still delay their entrance in the story till the right moment to create hype. Dowon and Canne would be lower grade versions of Enne, Bam's future half-sisters-in-law. If that holds true, Bam would have to work well with Dowon's persona as a test to how he would relate to Enne whenever they meet.

Yes, it really does seem to be a repeat of the core group. It's no different from any other manga where history is shown to rhyme - like the senior groups in Naruto always training 3 chunin that were very similar to their group. Or the Sennin. etc Or really any other manga ever where there was a similar trio or group and that's later reflected in the younger MCs. No, this concept hasn't ever played out once before!

We got Wangnan completely oblivious of his father's ID, Akraptor unable to find his daughter in his remaining lifetime,

Exactly! Some here think everyone in the trillions of tower souls absolutely knows everything about their heritage no questions asked. Not that we have precedent for forgotten heritage as you point out or anything (which is also completely reasonable even if there weren't examples). OR as I said naive citizens such as White's kingdom denizens certainly not knowing they were in a baby-Arie kingdom. Nope, everyone knows their papa and mum and has papers to show for it! If they aren't introduced as a ______ it is 100% impossible for them to have a backstory or later reveal!

maybe Blossom the lazy left the kids with the father to raise and nobody ever told Dowon the truth.

Exactly again. Which of the OG13 is MOST LIKELY to be too lazy to raise his/her kids? Could it be... the lazy one perhaps? Not that any of them are particularly good parents anyways and intimately involved with their children or grandchildren save a few examples like Yuri/Yurin and the way LPB acts about his favored DDs. Still, most have had innumerable offspring and are ambivalent about what they are up to. Hell, Eduan even fights and presumably kills his heirs. White is an Arie... did he fuck? I'd say probably so. And yet he consumed all the souls of his kingdoms, to probably include any offspring with the natives. Descendants are largely seen as disposable in the tower. Just look at the 'princess' program. And the one most-described as being LAZY is very likely to see heirs as disposable or an afterthought.

This is memory-wipe kingdom anyway.

Again, my point. Curiously this specific kingdom and none other is associated with getting mind-wiped (very curious and not really elaborated on). Not seen anywhere else in the story. But, no, there's no way someone couldn't know their history beyond the kingdom. I mean it's not like we've ever seen someone discover they had super-heritage later in a fantasy story or anything....





But, I mean really. The alternative is that SIU wrote a character that checks every box for being a Eurasian with the exception of a pillow (which we have seen not all carry). He couldn't have given Dowon a different position, different hair/eye color combo, different from flower theme, nah. She couldn't be a purple-haired water-bender fisherman. I guess he just forgot the characteristic traits of the Eurasians when writing her. Completely coincidental down to the flower and pink themes...

Not like if you heard about a new character - blue-haired, pale-skinned, blue-eyed spear-bearer with a personality of being a haughty, quick-witted philanderer. There's NO WAY anyone would think that would be a Khun... EXACTLY like we got with Hynd Luch in Hidden Garden, only he knows who daddy is. So he fits the equivalent Khun archetype in every way but is labeled a Khun officially. Dowon in an exact parallel equivalent fits the Eurasia archetype down to a 't' just like he does for Khuns, but doesn't come with an official label. So she's written off completely lol. Oh, and it's quite obvious several generations of DD's existed even during genesis era. Yet the argument is that Dowon can't be a DD because it's not modern era? That's nonsensical. Clearly the OG13, or at least some of them, were banging their way up the tower and in the early parts of genesis - which is confirmed to have been a long period lasting thousands of years. PLENTY OF ROOM/TIME for Eurasia to have had kids and even kingdoms without them knowing who mum was - or being mind-wiped of the whole ordeal.

Meanwhile literally everyone else of note in Hidden Garden is associated with VIP heritage - Cha's heritage (unexplained as SIU tends to do! More evidence he reserves the deets for later reveal) is only super-important and talked about over and over as the 'son of the first' - and also speculated to be a 10FH DD as well (personally I'm leaning towards one of the Ha twins). Taro is, like Rak, undoubtedly a native one DD because he too has traits of the giant and other than wool looks identical to a confirmed Native One DD (Rak of course). Still another is a confirmed Khun (omg, he actually knows his parentage and it's explained unlike the others with simply strong hints!), Hynd Luch. Nah, only Dowon singularly is just a nameless bloodline from a backwoods kingdom that isn't impressive at all or explaining her overwhelming strength. Makes total sense! She alone is the odd one out in not having special bloodline, yet is arguably tied to be the strongest. Sure. Right.

Instead we get repeated hot takes! here that Dowon was part of the flower kingdom. Or that she doesn't know (or say) her heritage as being anything other than peach kingdom like Hynd Luch does publicly (unlike Taro and Cha who don't feel the need to exposition on their heritage for the readers' sake lol). No fucking shit. Everyone knows that; no one disputes it. And it still doesn't contradict or rule out the Dowon Eurasia theory in the slightest. For the 100th time.

 

[cash2088]

To be fair, some here can't distinguish a difference between:

- Dowon COULD BE Eurasian and here's why... (plenty of room left for it to not be so)

And

- Dowon with 100% certainty is not Eurasian and here's why... (a statement of fact with no room for being wrong)

So, I wouldn't actually be surprised at all to learn she wasn't. Personally I just haven't seen a convincing argument against it yet. OTOH, those arguing against the idea argue with certainty something they simply don't know. Which is foolish.




Just like those that said if was IMPOSSIBURU! that Kallavan would ever fight for Baam.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 1, 2020 ---

Precisely. Although I do think I recall her father having pink hair but I could be misremembering. IMO, it is clear that the FLOWER and WC power Dowon and her sister share - along with the characteristically pink hair and eyes of a Eurasian, exist as a strong bloodline within her peach kingdom. IMO, it was handed down from Eurasia at some point and her father is a DD and she's in turn a descendant too.

Either way, it's not like anyone can actually answer the following with a chapter or panel:

- show the panel that indicates the peach kingdom existed prior to Blossom entering the tower (not that this would rule it out because see below Q's)
- how long did it take Blossom to climb?
- what has been hinted at as a very long time, on the verge of potentially thousands of years, what did Blossom do or not do during that time?
- why couldn't an irregular superpower found or involve themselves with a kingdom during such a potentially long period a la White in the middle period?
- why could her offspring not be a strong bloodline left in the kingdom from a previous fling up the tower?

so the 'but but but ancient flower kingdom!' isn't really an argument and says nothing at all. And?

Beyond that, and more to your point - Blossom fucks. It's a fact. She has kids, so we know she's not like Yeon Hana. She's also a lazy person, most likely a deadbeat like the other 10FH - if anyone would be one, and many seem to be (deadbeats), she'd be one. EVEN IF she didn't found the kingdom (I think there's plenty of unaccounted for time for it to be a possibility) then she still could have had a romance with someone in the kingdom on her way up. JUST LIKE all the other FH's having children with the natives. Perhaps, being a flower lover herself, she was attracted to the so-called 'peach blossom kingdom' due to its titular trees. And perhaps, and this isn't even a long-shot crazy idea, she mated with someone in the kingdom and left her progeny/bloodline in it. Which continued much like, say, the phonsekal branch, to pass down the very dominant genes of being a pink haired/eyed WC with flower powers in that kingdom that clearly not others in the kingdom were privy too - it was an elite bloodline in the kingdom, fact.

None of which is unreasonable in the slightest. Some here act like they know her (Blossom's) every action and whereabouts for the completely unexplained, long-term, unaccounted for climb/adventure the original irregulars had. Like, CCTV was on her the entire time don't you know? Completely impossible she had kids on some floor and those descendants became Dowon and her sister, Canne (also a flower/named after a lily) with her characteristic traits of pink/pink, flower, WCs for the females in the family - like, um, Dowon and her sister. Go figure.

If you can't get your head around her founding a kingdom (which, again, there was enough time and precedent for - not like Arie Hon lives in a literal castle on 100F or anything...) before your belief (read: assumption, not undisputed fact at all) of it being possible chronologically (as if SIU has given us a timeline of the unaccounted for 20k++ years lol. Hint: more than possible, even probable), then you can at least get your head around the idea of Blossom fucking. That's not even up for debate because she has. Unlike other nonfactual claims of what isn't up for debate...



Yes, it really does seem to be a repeat of the core group. It's no different from any other manga where history is shown to rhyme - like the senior groups in Naruto always training 3 chunin that were very similar to their group. Or the Sennin. etc Or really any other manga ever where there was a similar trio or group and that's later reflected in the younger MCs. No, this concept hasn't ever played out once before!



Exactly! Some here think everyone in the trillions of tower souls absolutely knows everything about their heritage no questions asked. Not that we have precedent for forgotten heritage as you point out or anything (which is also completely reasonable even if there weren't examples). OR as I said naive citizens such as White's kingdom denizens certainly not knowing they were in a baby-Arie kingdom. Nope, everyone knows their papa and mum and has papers to show for it! If they aren't introduced as a ______ it is 100% impossible for them to have a backstory or later reveal!



Exactly again. Which of the OG13 is MOST LIKELY to be too lazy to raise his/her kids? Could it be... the lazy one perhaps? Not that any of them are particularly good parents anyways and intimately involved with their children or grandchildren save a few examples like Yuri/Yurin and the way LPB acts about his favored DDs. Still, most have had innumerable offspring and are ambivalent about what they are up to. Hell, Eduan even fights and presumably kills his heirs. White is an Arie... did he fuck? I'd say probably so. And yet he consumed all the souls of his kingdoms, to probably include any offspring with the natives. Descendants are largely seen as disposable in the tower. Just look at the 'princess' program. And the one most-described as being LAZY is very likely to see heirs as disposable or an afterthought.



Again, my point. Curiously this specific kingdom and none other is associated with getting mind-wiped (very curious and not really elaborated on). Not seen anywhere else in the story. But, no, there's no way someone couldn't know their history beyond the kingdom. I mean it's not like we've ever seen someone discover they had super-heritage later in a fantasy story or anything....





But, I mean really. The alternative is that SIU wrote a character that checks every box for being a Eurasian with the exception of a pillow (which we have seen not all carry). He couldn't have given Dowon a different position, different hair/eye color combo, different from flower theme, nah. She couldn't be a purple-haired water-bender fisherman. I guess he just forgot the characteristic traits of the Eurasians when writing her. Completely coincidental down to the flower and pink themes...

Not like if you heard about a new character - blue-haired, pale-skinned, blue-eyed spear-bearer with a personality of being a haughty, quick-witted philanderer. There's NO WAY anyone would think that would be a Khun... EXACTLY like we got with Hynd Luch in Hidden Garden, only he knows who daddy is. So he fits the equivalent Khun archetype in every way but is labeled a Khun officially. Dowon in an exact parallel equivalent fits the Eurasia archetype down to a 't' just like he does for Khuns, but doesn't come with an official label. So she's written off completely lol. Oh, and it's quite obvious several generations of DD's existed even during genesis era. Yet the argument is that Dowon can't be a DD because it's not modern era? That's nonsensical. Clearly the OG13, or at least some of them, were banging their way up the tower and in the early parts of genesis - which is confirmed to have been a long period lasting thousands of years. PLENTY OF ROOM/TIME for Eurasia to have had kids and even kingdoms without them knowing who mum was - or being mind-wiped of the whole ordeal.

Meanwhile literally everyone else of note in Hidden Garden is associated with VIP heritage - Cha's heritage (unexplained as SIU tends to do! More evidence he reserves the deets for later reveal) is only super-important and talked about over and over as the 'son of the first' - and also speculated to be a 10FH DD as well (personally I'm leaning towards one of the Ha twins). Taro is, like Rak, undoubtedly a native one DD because he too has traits of the giant and other than wool looks identical to a confirmed Native One DD (Rak of course). Still another is a confirmed Khun (omg, he actually knows his parentage and it's explained unlike the others with simply strong hints!), Hynd Luch. Nah, only Dowon singularly is just a nameless bloodline from a backwoods kingdom that isn't impressive at all or explaining her overwhelming strength. Makes total sense! She alone is the odd one out in not having special bloodline, yet is arguably tied to be the strongest. Sure. Right.

Instead we get repeated hot takes! here that Dowon was part of the flower kingdom. Or that she doesn't know (or say) her heritage as being anything other than peach kingdom like Hynd Luch does publicly (unlike Taro and Cha who don't feel the need to exposition on their heritage for the readers' sake lol). No fucking shit. Everyone knows that; no one disputes it. And it still doesn't contradict or rule out the Dowon Eurasia theory in the slightest. For the 100th time.

I can admire the commitment, and I will say I never ruled it out as a possibility. But at the same token I always believe in the possibility this kingdom is independent of the Eurasia. Given it DOESNT check all the boxes given what we’ve seen of the Phonesekal branches and the description of blossom.

Also, it destroys the narrative SIU was setting. How Zahard trampled on those whom weren’t of the 10 families, into total subjugation. That the native peoples and ancient kingdoms don’t matter in the face of his empire. Which correlates perfectly with what Kallavan said “Zahard treats/regards EVERYBODY not from the 10 families equally“... What can be inferred is that they literally are nothing to him and below his regard. A god......

Blossom still remains the only one of the Eurasia family with any actual affiliation to flowers, it being her name..... The sobriquet “flower shrimp” comes from the flamboyancy of her clothes and not the appearance of her shinsoo or affinity for flower based techs... Just saying.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

And Khun Hynd was just that, an aberration within the group.... He even says so....


If Dowon’s Kingdom was really an ancient lost Eurasia line (which I don’t think the time scales support but hey let’s posit for a moment) wouldn’t it have been easier for Zahard to elevate them to 10 family status as a Eurasia branch? Rather than just wipe them out?

 

[Sanity Check]

Just like those that said if was IMPOSSIBURU! that Kallavan would ever fight for Baam.

...

If Jahad has the power to manipulate fate and turn allies against each other.

Bam should a similar ability +1.

Kallavan also may be talk no jitsued into joining Bam's side.

Nostradumbass thought Kallavan might join Bam's side circa december 2019 ^.

Nostradumbass thought it would be talk no jutsu rather than circumstantial though.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I can admire the commitment, and I will say I never ruled it out as a possibility. But at the same token I always believe in the possibility this kingdom is independent of the Eurasia. Given it DOESNT check all the boxes given what we’ve seen of the Phonesekal branches and the description of blossom.

Also, it destroys the narrative SIU was setting. How Zahard trampled on those whom weren’t of the 10 families, into total subjugation. That the native peoples and ancient kingdoms don’t matter in the face of his empire. Which correlates perfectly with what Kallavan said “Zahard treats/regards EVERYBODY not from the 10 families equally“... What can be inferred is that they literally are nothing to him and below his regard. A god......

Blossom still remains the only one of the Eurasia family with any actual affiliation to flowers, it being her name..... The sobriquet “flower shrimp” comes from the flamboyancy of her clothes and not the appearance of her shinsoo or affinity for flower based techs... Just saying.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

And Khun Hynd was just that, an aberration within the group.... He even says so....


If Dowon’s Kingdom was really an ancient lost Eurasia line (which I don’t think the time scales support but hey let’s posit for a moment) wouldn’t it have been easier for Zahard to elevate them to 10 family status as a Eurasia branch? Rather than just wipe them out?

The flower Shinsoo comes from their dad, it's said by her chapters Ago. Either way, let's continue on Hangouts to talk more freely. That thread exists exactly for our current needs. Lets make It crowded till the hiatus ends.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I can admire the commitment, and I will say I never ruled it out as a possibility.

Fair enough.

But at the same token I always believe in the possibility this kingdom is independent of the Eurasia.

Maybe. Maybe not. Where's the evidence either way?

Given it DOESNT check all the boxes given what we’ve seen of the Phonesekal branches and the description of blossom.

Phonsekal is a branch family (also the only ones shown with pillows) with its own similar but slightly different theme (pillows and green/green eyes/hair being the most notable). Most Eurasians we've seen are Ph. Also, they have a theme that's pretty consistent. Typically WCs, but not all. Typically lazy, but not all. All either with a pink/pink or green/green hair/eyes combo without exception (so far about a 50-50 split in variation). So a clear theme, but with some variation as would be expected from something considered BRANCH. I'm not suggesting Dowon comes from the Ph's either way.

So, when it comes to theme of **non-phonsekal Eurasians**, color scheme, and typical powers, Dowon DOES check those boxes. At least of the limited we've seen so far.

Also, it destroys the narrative SIU was setting. How Zahard trampled on those whom weren’t of the 10 families, into total subjugation. That the native peoples and ancient kingdoms don’t matter in the face of his empire.

Not really if a) Dowon is unaware of where the strong, isolated bloodline within her kingdom came from and/or b) aware or not, she's still part of the kingdom irrespective of genetics.

Which correlates perfectly with what Kallavan said “Zahard treats/regards EVERYBODY not from the 10 families equally“... What can be inferred is that they literally are nothing to him and below his regard. A god......

Except the FACT that there are multiples of multiples of examples of descendants of 10FH + Z that go against empire: White, Yuri, Jinsung, Kynd Luch, AA, Karaka, Wangnan, all the doggos, possibly YHS (Hendo), probably Cha (son of first), Garam, Enne, now every Po Bidau ever to include Gustang, probably some of the other slayers/elders to include Sophia and Luslec, Baam (if you count Arlen), Yeon Woon/Ice strawberry/Hachuling if you count WT, whatever will probably play out with Mas and Lyb, probably AA's older brother that stopped the train, Evan (if you count an empire guide going against Zahard), Ari Bright and Ha Cheonhee who are now fighting alongside Baam, Anak's mom, Androssi and the list his hardly exhaustive. <--- all somehow related to empire that could be squashed all the same.

The argument that you get a pass being related to 10FH+Z or that he's only oppressive to pure-blooded natives simply isn't true.

Blossom still remains the only one of the Eurasia family with any actual affiliation to flowers, it being her name..... The sobriquet “flower shrimp” comes from the flamboyancy of her clothes and not the appearance of her shinsoo or affinity for flower based techs... Just saying.

Which is more than enough for a link as we're talking Eurasians proper, not phonsekals. The only other one (Enne with her pink/pink theme can't be counted as she's half Bidau) actually being ice strawberry, another famously flowering plant. With a pinkish theme as well. Also, shrimp are... what color again? Clearly pink is a theme both in hair and eye color, clothing (see ice strawberry's clothes), and even names. That's not a coincidence.

And Blossom's name proper doesn't come from clothing. She's literally named 'flower'. Because that's her theme. We don't know if her shinsoo takes a flower theme (it very well could) but she herself does in name and expression of style. Meanwhile, Canne (a lily) and Dowon (flower shinsoo, forgetmenot flower association) are themed in flowers by names, powers, and interests (not to mention clothing as well - a bit flamboyant). It couldn't be a clearer, in-your-face theme for both - flowers. Regardless of how that is expressed; and it's expressed in more than one way for each.

But, once again, any one singular thing that's nitpicked in isolation can be explained away. I'm not pointing out just one thing. It's the totality of alllll the things that I label 'hints' and posters such as yourself dismiss out of hand. It's not JUST pink. Or JUST strong WC. Or JUST flowers.

And Khun Hynd was just that, an aberration within the group.... He even says so....

Khun Hynd was a lot of things - and naive is one of them. He would think so. But, as I pointed out - they don't all have to be DD's of the 10FH to meet the standard of having a powerful bloodline. I pointedly said each - other than Dowon hint hint - have high-profile, VIP genetics. Taro is a native one DD undoubtedly. Luch is a Khun. Cha's heritage has repeatedly been hinted at as something very special, powerful, and important. Only poor ol' Dowon has nothing special while looking like she was drawn on a easel to be a Eurasian in every sense. Not likely IMO. And if the residents of the peach blossom kingdom are unaware that such strong bloodline runs in their midst, Hynd would be too. Hell, he wasn't even away of his brother Lyb - in his own fucking family - until he was. Hynd is clearly not the be-all, end-all when it comes to knowledge of heritage of the group. He wasn't even aware of the totality of his own family's descendants. And if the lineage of Dowon being a Eurasian was forgotten to time (possibly forcefully even), discarded, secretive, or so apathetic by the matriarch to not be passed down as relevant (possible shame associated with being discarded) by even the residents - famously shown to have their minds wiped and forgetful about other things later (forgetmenot, ahem) - then there's no way Luch would have knowledge of it if even they didn't know. Or didn't say.

If Dowon’s Kingdom was really an ancient lost Eurasia line (which I don’t think the time scales support but hey let’s posit for a moment) wouldn’t it have been easier for Zahard to elevate them to 10 family status as a Eurasia branch? Rather than just wipe them out?

Lots of what-ifs here. What if they developed a sense of independence and simply didn't want to comply? You aren't obligated to your ancestors' wishes simply due to relation. What if the bloodline was special and not the totality of the kingdom residents? i.e., not everyone had the special powers and pink/pink hair and eyes so not everyone in the kingdom would be Eurasian (just like not all of White's kingdom residents wouldn't be considered Arie unless he mated here and there in isolation)! What if Eurasia simply wasn't interested in her children (it's only been said 100x - lazy) so Zahard could care less as well? What if she cast a memory distorting spell (possible strong WC ability) to make them unaware and uncaring about tower politics, or even hostile/denial of the thought they're related? What if they were so isolated (no different than White's kingdoms) they were simply blissfully unaware either way? What if Blossom just had a kid and jetted (not unlikely) and doesn't even consider the fraction of the bloodline in the vastness of the kingdom worth fighting for since the kingdom as a whole is upstart against Zahard? What if what if what if?

More importantly, IMO, why exactly do you think it doesn't fit chronologically?

Zahard had princes (well, at least one) and princesses back then (pre-genesis even). Khun clearly had multiples of wives already and DD's - we know of at least Luch and Lyb - and the fact that they weren't exactly close hints to the probability of a lot more all the way back then. In fact, because of Lyb's dual-parentage he's AT LEAST 3rd gen if not later. We know LPBFH *already* had at least 8 (no reason for more) DD's and we know for a fact that genesis lasted thousands of years. We know the OG13 had romantic interests climbing the tower. We know the original journey was said to take a longer time. We know princesses were needed to solidify order and rule on each floor (so that program had to take time to be developed). We know that the 'captain' considers himself an aged adventure all the way back in genesis. I could go on but I think you get the point.

So please explain why Blossom alone couldn't have offspring at the very least (forgotten about, discarded, memory-wiped, or combo thereof) and even her own little piece of kingdom no different than SEVERAL Aries have set up in ancient times past.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

The flower Shinsoo comes from their dad, it's said by her chapters Ago. Either way, let's continue on Hangouts to talk more freely. That thread exists exactly for our current needs. Lets make It crowded till the hiatus ends.

It really needs its own thread. But what else could really be said as we don't have new data and the argument is rather circular?

 

[sazon]

Whoever said he thinks Sofia's twins are a way for Baam to consolidate his powers, namely the Red and Blue Thryssa, I agree with you...I mean... the hair color of those twins is really telling. Plus Baam has yet to impress Sofia.

Do you speak of Baam devouring them? Or impersonate the Thryssas? For me, they will be part of Baam's harem rank group when they become Slayer after the arc.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

The meltdown on this forum if Dowon is officially revealed as a Eurasia or not by SIU will be something to watch.

I don't understand why people are shocked by this possibility. In the past chapter, several people associated Augusgus with the Aries or Ari and there was not half the commotion to say that Dowon can descend from Blossom.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Do you speak of Baam devouring them? Or impersonate the Thryssas? For me, they will be part of Baam's harem rank group when they become Slayer after the arc.

I know you alluded to this last week - but they're not even hot lolis.

I mean... eh... you know... by typical loli standards.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

To me their character design, bickering, and power set seem kind of meh

 

[sazon]

I know you alluded to this last week - but they're not even hot lolis.

SIU differs greatly from the standard of female characters, even when he decides to put fanservice, it is not something ridiculous, as many others do. I particularly liked the loli, the looks are cool and they are WC, they already won me there.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

Speaking of twins, now that we have a second pair for comparison, I found this variation of colors quite strange. Shilial and Lilial, even though they are twins, are VERY different and so are these new characters. Normally I would ignore it, but SIU puts a lot of emphasis on genetics in the story, so are the twins in the tower different from normal? The kind that it's impossible to be born identical twins? Or that it is actually the term used in people who can split up like that guy in the factory battle?

 

[sayan pal]

May be because she is a relatively senior Princess she has the commanding tone. But yah may be she can use the battle field to her advantage.
I do think Maschenny is Rachel 's surrogate in the sense she will torment Bam. But will be hella powerful so interesting plot device.

may be or may not be

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

LOL

what is so funny?

 

[cash2088]

Fair enough.



Maybe. Maybe not. Where's the evidence either way?



Phonsekal is a branch family (also the only ones shown with pillows) with its own similar but slightly different theme (pillows and green/green eyes/hair being the most notable). Most Eurasians we've seen are Ph. Also, they have a theme that's pretty consistent. Typically WCs, but not all. Typically lazy, but not all. All either with a pink/pink or green/green hair/eyes combo without exception (so far about a 50-50 split in variation). So a clear theme, but with some variation as would be expected from something considered BRANCH. I'm not suggesting Dowon comes from the Ph's either way.

So, when it comes to theme of **non-phonsekal Eurasians**, color scheme, and typical powers, Dowon DOES check those boxes. At least of the limited we've seen so far.



Not really if a) Dowon is unaware of where the strong, isolated bloodline within her kingdom came from and/or b) aware or not, she's still part of the kingdom irrespective of genetics.



Except the FACT that there are multiples of multiples of examples of descendants of 10FH + Z that go against empire: White, Yuri, Jinsung, Kynd Luch, AA, Karaka, Wangnan, all the doggos, possibly YHS (Hendo), probably Cha (son of first), Garam, Enne, now every Po Bidau ever to include Gustang, probably some of the other slayers/elders to include Sophia and Luslec, Baam (if you count Arlen), Yeon Woon/Ice strawberry/Hachuling if you count WT, whatever will probably play out with Mas and Lyb, probably AA's older brother that stopped the train, Evan (if you count an empire guide going against Zahard), Ari Bright and Ha Cheonhee who are now fighting alongside Baam, Anak's mom, Androssi and the list his hardly exhaustive. <--- all somehow related to empire that could be squashed all the same.

The argument that you get a pass being related to 10FH+Z or that he's only oppressive to pure-blooded natives simply isn't true.



Which is more than enough for a link as we're talking Eurasians proper, not phonsekals. The only other one (Enne with her pink/pink theme can't be counted as she's half Bidau) actually being ice strawberry, another famously flowering plant. With a pinkish theme as well. Also, shrimp are... what color again? Clearly pink is a theme both in hair and eye color, clothing (see ice strawberry's clothes), and even names. That's not a coincidence.

And Blossom's name proper doesn't come from clothing. She's literally named 'flower'. Because that's her theme. We don't know if her shinsoo takes a flower theme (it very well could) but she herself does in name and expression of style. Meanwhile, Canne (a lily) and Dowon (flower shinsoo, forgetmenot flower association) are themed in flowers by names, powers, and interests (not to mention clothing as well - a bit flamboyant). It couldn't be a clearer, in-your-face theme for both - flowers. Regardless of how that is expressed; and it's expressed in more than one way for each.

But, once again, any one singular thing that's nitpicked in isolation can be explained away. I'm not pointing out just one thing. It's the totality of alllll the things that I label 'hints' and posters such as yourself dismiss out of hand. It's not JUST pink. Or JUST strong WC. Or JUST flowers.



Khun Hynd was a lot of things - and naive is one of them. He would think so. But, as I pointed out - they don't all have to be DD's of the 10FH to meet the standard of having a powerful bloodline. I pointedly said each - other than Dowon hint hint - have high-profile, VIP genetics. Taro is a native one DD undoubtedly. Luch is a Khun. Cha's heritage has repeatedly been hinted at as something very special, powerful, and important. Only poor ol' Dowon has nothing special while looking like she was drawn on a easel to be a Eurasian in every sense. Not likely IMO. And if the residents of the peach blossom kingdom are unaware that such strong bloodline runs in their midst, Hynd would be too. Hell, he wasn't even away of his brother Lyb - in his own fucking family - until he was. Hynd is clearly not the be-all, end-all when it comes to knowledge of heritage of the group. He wasn't even aware of the totality of his own family's descendants. And if the lineage of Dowon being a Eurasian was forgotten to time (possibly forcefully even), discarded, secretive, or so apathetic by the matriarch to not be passed down as relevant (possible shame associated with being discarded) by even the residents - famously shown to have their minds wiped and forgetful about other things later (forgetmenot, ahem) - then there's no way Luch would have knowledge of it if even they didn't know. Or didn't say.



Lots of what-ifs here. What if they developed a sense of independence and simply didn't want to comply? You aren't obligated to your ancestors' wishes simply due to relation. What if the bloodline was special and not the totality of the kingdom residents? i.e., not everyone had the special powers and pink/pink hair and eyes so not everyone in the kingdom would be Eurasian (just like not all of White's kingdom residents wouldn't be considered Arie unless he mated here and there in isolation)! What if Eurasia simply wasn't interested in her children (it's only been said 100x - lazy) so Zahard could care less as well? What if she cast a memory distorting spell (possible strong WC ability) to make them unaware and uncaring about tower politics, or even hostile/denial of the thought they're related? What if they were so isolated (no different than White's kingdoms) they were simply blissfully unaware either way? What if Blossom just had a kid and jetted (not unlikely) and doesn't even consider the fraction of the bloodline in the vastness of the kingdom worth fighting for since the kingdom as a whole is upstart against Zahard? What if what if what if?

More importantly, IMO, why exactly do you think it doesn't fit chronologically?

Zahard had princes (well, at least one) and princesses back then (pre-genesis even). Khun clearly had multiples of wives already and DD's - we know of at least Luch and Lyb - and the fact that they weren't exactly close hints to the probability of a lot more all the way back then. In fact, because of Lyb's dual-parentage he's AT LEAST 3rd gen if not later. We know LPBFH *already* had at least 8 (no reason for more) DD's and we know for a fact that genesis lasted thousands of years. We know the OG13 had romantic interests climbing the tower. We know the original journey was said to take a longer time. We know princesses were needed to solidify order and rule on each floor (so that program had to take time to be developed). We know that the 'captain' considers himself an aged adventure all the way back in genesis. I could go on but I think you get the point.

So please explain why Blossom alone couldn't have offspring at the very least (forgotten about, discarded, memory-wiped, or combo thereof) and even her own little piece of kingdom no different than SEVERAL Aries have set up in ancient times past.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

It really needs its own thread. But what else could really be said as we don't have new data and the argument is rather circular?

As I’m not as fastidious as you I won’t address this point by point, but I won’t say Blossom COULDN’T have had offspring that had other offspring. What I will say is this, the kingdom was stated to be ancient (I took this for as with everything in TOG ancient to mean pre or early Zahard) and not a whole kingdom with history and culture 3 generations removed (and conveniently mind wiped) of their lineage and heritage.....

The scenario in which you say “fits” takes liberties and assumptions in reasoning and conflates it as logical assertions.

Branch families STILL resemble the family head in abilities, and Dowon doesn’t resemble ANY Phonesekal.... This isn’t as inconsequential a fact as you make it.

And her name being a flower is great and all but as far as I know there isn’t a pattern of the persons name being a testament to their look or powers.... So the conflation of name = theme = sign of family isn’t one of your strong points..

And STRAWBERRY??!?!? Lol 1 out of the 7 or 8 we’ve seen? Not promising or a convincing pattern. Fruit of a “Flowering plant“.... Lolol But not a flower..... my friend.



I’ll be happy for ya if we do find out there is some link between em and the Eurasia, but I ain’t betting there will be....

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

Lastly Jubei, Ms. Ice Strawberry is a code name for Wolkhaisong...

Refer to what the Kuhn said after she “introduced” herself...... Not her real name! Another deduction!

 

[EternalWinter]

I forgot to mention the ubiquitous nature of warp devices. Not only does every capital ship, and presumably every FH by extension, have one (if not more), but in this very chapter we see that Sophia guards one that is rather portable that they shoe-horned into the needle.

Just a mere few chapters ago we were treated to an operational warp device used to kill the LPB windbird. It was just casually laying about in the debris.





I can't imagine then that the *shocker* reveal that EVK is worried about and no one on FUG's side could have calculated for is.... just another warp device.





All that said - does anyone know if the warp devices allow you to warp to different floors? OR is it only about on the same floor then you travel by conventional space-fairing means to other floors from that point? Has anything been said about the range?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 1, 2020 ---

Easily our second best fight. To date. Time for another?



(obviously Zahard leaving his floor was number #1. I ruined your Hawaiian vacay with that one me thinks)

Well, the difference I would note is that the transporter used to kill Dokoko moved a bullet by a few thousand feet at tops.

If FUG is gonna retreat they need something MUCH stronger

The only thing we've seen move through levels thus far seems to be Khel's arrows?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

Not sure who will kill who, if either, but Kallavan is clearly lying about never joining Baam again. He's already won over. Unless he dies in battle that is, in which case he's telling truth (but doesn't yet know how that is).

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 1, 2020 ---

Yeah, people are in denial (as is Kallavan? No, he knows better) that Kallavan can win his seat back. At best he rallies the former 4th and is a pirate ronin.

This exactly. If he was ONLY killing Lyb, maybe. He could spin a story that he executed a traitor who put an entire corps of the army at FUG's mercy. But the very fact he made such a point of it, and said BAAM OF ALL PEOPLE WOULD NEVER FORGIVE, is pretty much setting up Ronin Kallavan eventually joining FUG

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

Not sure either. A lot thought he was a secret traitor but then he brought a new, supposedly stronger 4th. Though they are Z army reserves either way so that's not exactly bringing new things to the table.

Although his way of 'doing things' not only didn't pan out, but destroyed a capital ship, alienated Kallavan's posse, and pissed Kallavan off to come THROUGH THE FIFTH CORPS to get to him to fight. It would be harder for a Khun to think of a better plan to aid BaamFUG than that while appearing to fight for Zahard....

All under the guise of 'just as planned'? Hell, that's a big mess for Mr. Big-brain. It's almost as if.... he's pulling a Khun (like in the games, pretending to lose) while serving the interests of the Po Bidau. Now, why on earth would that be...?




Then there's the issue of what he did to Hidden Garden. Though those actions actually preserved as many HG heavy-hitters as possible as they had already lost, certainly once Zahard had entered the room.




Are traitors traitoring traitors then?





Oh, and he's shown to be a company man WAY too much. It's over-the-top. Like, 'look how good of a company man I am I am doing all this to win!' type of convincing that even Mas is confused by his actions. It's a front?

Everyone thought Kallavan was a company man too, and look at him now.

Lyboric saved a few members of HG. Imagine if Lucci didn't get cold feet, and Cha/Dowonless HG tried to kill Zahad in his sleep. I for one think HG would have shared Khel's team's fate

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

Not sure either. A lot thought he was a secret traitor but then he brought a new, supposedly stronger 4th. Though they are Z army reserves either way so that's not exactly bringing new things to the table.

Although his way of 'doing things' not only didn't pan out, but destroyed a capital ship, alienated Kallavan's posse, and pissed Kallavan off to come THROUGH THE FIFTH CORPS to get to him to fight. It would be harder for a Khun to think of a better plan to aid BaamFUG than that while appearing to fight for Zahard....

All under the guise of 'just as planned'? Hell, that's a big mess for Mr. Big-brain. It's almost as if.... he's pulling a Khun (like in the games, pretending to lose) while serving the interests of the Po Bidau. Now, why on earth would that be...?




Then there's the issue of what he did to Hidden Garden. Though those actions actually preserved as many HG heavy-hitters as possible as they had already lost, certainly once Zahard had entered the room.




Are traitors traitoring traitors then?





Oh, and he's shown to be a company man WAY too much. It's over-the-top. Like, 'look how good of a company man I am I am doing all this to win!' type of convincing that even Mas is confused by his actions. It's a front?

Everyone thought Kallavan was a company man too, and look at him now.

Lyboric saved a few members of HG. Imagine if Lucci didn't get cold feet, and Cha/Dowonless HG tried to kill Zahad in his sleep. I for one think HG would have shared Khel's team's fate

Kallavan the lost...... He knows not where he is. Or where he’s from.... Just Lyboric

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 1, 2020 ---

Mas’ loyalty is suspect also...

She’s in no position to question anybody lol

I just can't accept that Lyb is a traitor. Adori would come off as a real tool if he was

UNLESS, she shows up right after this and erases him from existence and the whole thing was a plot to find any traitors in her zero division

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

Would Lyb be able to fool Adori? Is she in on it if not? Or did she not trust him and that's why she sent him? (kind of like how Zahard is seeing who did or didn't send aid in this battle to be able to gauge their levels of loyalty to him)

What if.... the new 4th joins Baam as well. Hand-picked by Lyb indeed lol

This is the ONLY reason I don't think Lyb is a traitor, unless this whole deal was an extravagant mole hunt by Adori to bait Lyb out

Then again it could also be that Adori took over the Boss's old role as Zahad's number 2 as one of his clone/children and she's turned against dad too

But a mole hunt followed by Adori dismantling Lyb post fight is the only way no one looks cucked here

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

The thing must be where Maschenny and branch head is. It would be really dangerous move by that sniper if the whole thing is a farce to lead Evk to the branch head and get her killed. And I have to say quite SIU move like he did with Bam and Rachel
On a way it might be a poetic end for the arc where Bam saves one of his teacher in expense of other.
What would utterly suck is if both dies

Lep only really has 2 options at this point, and honestly killing Evank might not get her forgiveness for what happened to Dokoko

She's gotta find safety under Baam's wig or really turn the war around, which I don't think will happen

Maschenny killing Evank seems pretty likely regardless of which side Lep chooses to side with

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

I Don t know why so many people think it is a warp device when we have the nest offering so many interesting options.
Like simply a device to freeze everybody inside the nest until jahad releases them would gatantee their deaths. Or releasing something dangerous imprisoned in the nest. And masch or Baam will certainly get the loot inside the nest.

A warp device is something stupid to use when we have a place like the nest...


Another thing that seems pretty clear is that the war won t end in this arc. Baam and company will entertain the squadrons for a while, Evankhell will delay the plan but fail, kaiser's team will rescue the hostages and when they return everyone will flee

This is the first battle in the second great war. There's no way anything ends now. The only question is how fucked the bits of RoZA here are

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

i kinda like how playfuly sadistic yas is it fit his theme as a cat.but i think it come from a place of over confidence he think he can mindcontrole canine easily he has hostage and he still has 'something' up his sleeve beside his own strenght.
i think canine are prepared this time so i expect it to backfire on him.maybe it will allow them to approach his ships.beside i think this the main event for elaine and rest of regulars.if they save captured canine then yama side can be on more equal footing with yas.
beside i think that yas will let kalavan pass let the 4th deal with him .
i think whatever evk is going to do this secret will be revealed soon.evk is too important to leave for a secret mission.
i think it not reinforcement although its likely to come because fug slayer are going tp be discouraged by more enemies when they came they had no idea who or how many.lile yama said they are mad dogs and brought their home with them.its a do or die.
i think their a device that harness the energy from the crystale and can send a shock wave that can dismantle any electronic devices or ships crystale engine.without a fast way to teleport or move past the floating stone blocks.zahard and lopobia will surely catch them even if they succeed.

fug side are still too weak yama and the cage will have to deal with yas leaving masch the 4th the snake and another branch family head to be dealt with by baam karaka white cha dowon kal and evk facing masch lyb and an army of hr and two dd of lopobia.the hostages that lyb sent away have to be rescued for a good fight which i expect maschenny to interfere.
i think baam is going to defeat masche and take her sword.the end of s2 hint that masch is the first to bite the dust by the new wave.i think she is going to survive but her failure will male her a target of the two warring princesse factions so she will seek her family protection but continue to play behind the scenes if after this war baam will save yuri and enne i think she will try to set baam up inside that conflict and arrange a meeting between eduan and baam since they are destined to meet.
after this war we will meet more fh eduan yurin ha blossom and lopbia it definetly get me excited

I don't see Maschenny losing here. Too soon. Maybe pinning the defeat on Lyb being a traitor and Yas playing with his food.

 

[OneEye]

Dowon can't be Eurasian, putting aside all what's been said about her, just from the way she was introduced:
- the first high rankers from each of the 10F are always introduced as crazily badass : Yuri for Ha, Maschenny for Koon, Sharon for Ari, Yasratcha for Lo Po Bia ... (even when he or she doesn't cut shit e.g White for Arie). So far, Dowon's presence doesn't put much pressure wherever she appears; just looks like Khell Hellam.

-just from her fighting style, Dowon doesn't incarnate the crazily great and proficient shinsoo mastery that's supposed to be typical of the Eurasia family; I mean something that would baffle Gustang or at least drag his attention like Urek teleporting. That's not the feeling anyone gets from watching Dowon fight. She just looks good and that's all about it, just like Cha.

- Dowon's wave controlling skills look very limited : moving petals around, teleporting herself.... and that may be just all. She just doesn't feel like a shinsoo genius; even Kallavan seems to have a better mastery of shinsoo than her ( He causes explosions, detonates incoming attacks, immobilized Androssi, can make shinsoo body parts, shoots giant attacks, survive holes through his stomach, heal himself...)

 

[EternalWinter]

Dowon can't be Eurasian, putting aside all what's been said about her, just from the way she was introduced:
- the first high rankers from each of the 10F are always introduced as crazily badass : Yuri for Ha, Maschenny for Koon, Sharon for Ari, Yasratcha for Lo Po Bia ... (even when he or she doesn't cut shit e.g White for Arie). So far, Dowon's presence doesn't put much pressure wherever she appears; just looks like Khell Hellam.

-just from her fighting style, Dowon doesn't incarnate the crazily great and proficient shinsoo mastery that's supposed to be typical of the Eurasia family; I mean something that would baffle Gustang or at least drag his attention like Urek teleporting. That's not the feeling anyone gets from watching Dowon fight. She just looks good and that's all about it, just like Cha.

- Dowon's wave controlling skills look very limited : moving petals around, teleporting herself.... and that may be just all. She just doesn't feel like a shinsoo genius; even Kallavan seems to have a better mastery of shinsoo than her ( He causes explosions, detonates incoming attacks, immobilized Androssi, can make shinsoo body parts, shoots giant attacks, survive holes through his stomach, heal himself...)

Dowon turns the explosion away a few chapters ago

 

[OneEye]

Dowon turns the explosion away a few chapters ago

An explosion someone of the level of Yama could helplessly survive; that's no great feat for a legendary hero like Dowon. The point isn't however that Dowon isn't mighty; it's rather that Siu isn't giving her as much credit as 10F top 100 high rankers; Dowon and White "MAY " now currently be at the same level of strength but White's entrance into the Kallavan battle scene was majestic whereas Dowon's entering was with confusion about which side to fight for.

Siu just doesn't present Dowon to us as someone who could possibly be a member of a family as great as the Eurasia bloodline; Even Augusgus' entrance was more badass (as he indeed may be a 10F member).

NB: every time Siu introduces a 10F top 100 high ranker or shows them fighting, he makes it feel like a godly figure murdering poor souls; that's my line of argument to disqualify Dowon for not being that badass

 

[cash2088]

Dowon turns the explosion away a few chapters ago

All were trying, it isn’t evident if or by how much she delayed or shielded the cage from the explosion. That as an example is arbitrarily nebulous.....

To @OneEye... None of those definitively rule out the possibility.... Although by her own admission she needed to “work hard” which goes to your point, I guess... Most Eurasia we have seen, sleep and use shinsoo like second nature.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

An explosion someone of the level of Yama could helplessly survive; that's no great feat for a legendary hero like Dowon. The point isn't however that Dowon isn't mighty; it's rather that Siu isn't giving her as much credit as 10F top 100 high rankers; Dowon and White "MAY " now currently be at the same level of strength but White's entrance into the Kallavan battle scene was majestic whereas Dowon's entering was with confusion about which side to fight for.

Siu just doesn't present Dowon to us as someone who could possibly be a member of a family as great as the Eurasia bloodline; Even Augusgus' entrance was more badass (as he indeed may be a 10F member).

Also Luchi was pretty mediocre if we are going the 10 family means OP route...

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020 ---

I want AA OP..... not just a mastermind who coddles Baam.

 

[Demonspeed]

An explosion someone of the level of Yama could helplessly survive; that's no great feat for a legendary hero like Dowon. The point isn't however that Dowon isn't mighty; it's rather that Siu isn't giving her as much credit as 10F top 100 high rankers; Dowon and White "MAY " now currently be at the same level of strength but White's entrance into the Kallavan battle scene was majestic whereas Dowon's entering was with confusion about which side to fight for.

Siu just doesn't present Dowon to us as someone who could possibly be a member of a family as great as the Eurasia bloodline; Even Augusgus' entrance was more badass (as he indeed may be a 10F member).

I don't believe that Dowon is a Eurasia but you don't need to be part of the 10 Families to be better than them. The Heads are the only ones who are unsurpassable.

 

[lianecel]

An explosion someone of the level of Yama could helplessly survive; that's no great feat for a legendary hero like Dowon. The point isn't however that Dowon isn't mighty; it's rather that Siu isn't giving her as much credit as 10F top 100 high rankers; Dowon and White "MAY " now currently be at the same level of strength but White's entrance into the Kallavan battle scene was majestic whereas Dowon's entering was with confusion about which side to fight for.

Siu just doesn't present Dowon to us as someone who could possibly be a member of a family as great as the Eurasia bloodline; Even Augusgus' entrance was more badass (as he indeed may be a 10F member).

NB: every time Siu introduces a 10F top 100 high ranker or shows them fighting, he makes it feel like a godly figure murdering poor souls; that's my line of argument to disqualify Dowon for not being that badass

I may dislike dowon but u talkin nonsense now, u just rate her power by just her apparance, we all know this girl wouldnt get any chance to fight, we all know she was ancient hero , equal with cha,
We all know cha is also a leader group just like khell hellam, cha also didnt get good scene so far, but does it make him a weak person?? even weakass like karaka once get godly figure

 

[EternalWinter]

She doesn't want to fight. Dowon is meant to show the other side of Baam

Also Yama was pretty much stated to not be able to stop the kaboom

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2020 ---

I don't believe that Dowon is a Eurasia but you don't need to be part of the 10 Families to be better than them. The Heads are the only ones who are unsurpassable.

No one is unsurpassable