One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

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It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

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This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

You guys give Magellan too much credit.
First of all, the thought of him having to be extremely powerful because he is in charge of taking care of the world's most dangerous criminals is baseless. It does not make sense because with that logic, Hannibal who is now the Warden has suddenly gotten a power up just because he got promoted. You see it don't make sense.
Magellan only beat BB and his crew because they were unprepared we all can agree with that.
Haki can defeat Magellan even in his Hell Form. Remember, Haki lets the attacker hit the body of the DF user bypassing the DF which can include poison or even Magma. For example look at Shanks vs Akainu. Shank's sword did not melt agaisnt Akainu's Magma punch. So yes, Haki can hit Magellan's poison covered body.
I don't think Magellan is super powerful because he took an attack from PRE TS Gear 2 Luffy, ALTHOUGH, it didnt take him down he took some damage, not enough to beat him but I think if Luffy wouldve kept it going and if he had Haki, he may had won HIGH diff.

 

[M3J]

[ppppo


I could not disagree more. Haki wouldn't nullify his poison and speed means nothing if you can't touch him without dying. And by definition of awakening he was able to turn his surrounding environment into poison as it was literally seeping from the walls. Hell Venom is an instant kill ability.

You would need a very particular ability to counter the poison.

Haki would protect against poison though as it's a protective covering. If wax could protect Luffy, then haki should be able to protect anyone fighting Magellan.

 

[Fox666]

Haki would protect against poison though as it's a protective covering. If wax could protect Luffy, then haki should be able to protect anyone fighting Magellan.

Haki makes your body harder. It may protect against acid, for example, but not poison.

Wax protected Luffy precisely because it was not his body.

 

[M3J]

Haki/Armament Haki

Color of Armament Haki, or simply Armament Haki, is a form of Haki that allows the user to use their own spiritual energy to create, in essence, an invisible piece of armor around themself, providing incredible offensive and defensive capabilities.[2] Notably, this form of Haki can be used to...

onepiece.fandom.com

"create invisible armor." I'm assuming the poison wouldn't be able to touch the skin.

 

[Nie Li]

I don't think Magellan is super powerful because he took an attack from PRE TS Gear 2 Luffy, ALTHOUGH, it didnt take him down he took some damage, not enough to beat him but I think if Luffy wouldve kept it going and if he had Haki, he may had won HIGH diff.

Just like in that same arc Blackbeard went to the floor after a single punch from "PRE TS Gear 2 Luffy" and was visibly very hurt despite getting back up? Despite Blackbeard by then having already beaten Whitebeard's second fleet commander?
That logic doesn't really work. Magellan not being the strongest physically doesn't mean he isn't broken because of his poison.

You guys give Magellan too much credit.
First of all, the thought of him having to be extremely powerful because he is in charge of taking care of the world's most dangerous criminals is baseless. It does not make sense because with that logic, Hannibal who is now the Warden has suddenly gotten a power up just because he got promoted. You see it don't make sense.

You mean Hannibal can't have gotten stronger over the span of the same two years during which Zoro, Luffy and Sanji went from having a hard time tagteaming a Pacifista to annihilating any Pacifista with a single hit?

Magellan only beat BB and his crew because they were unprepared we all can agree with that.

I don't. Blackbeard at the time had no means of defeating Magellan. Nor did others like Burgess. I don't know about the rest since the Doc hasn't shown much and the sniper would obviously have an advantage if he could snipe Magellan.

Haki can defeat Magellan even in his Hell Form. Remember, Haki lets the attacker hit the body of the DF user bypassing the DF which can include poison or even Magma. For example look at Shanks vs Akainu. Shank's sword did not melt agaisnt Akainu's Magma punch. So yes, Haki can hit Magellan's poison covered body.

Going by the same logic of mentioning Akainu and Marineford; Whitebeard and Ace must have been weaklings to you if they were damaged by magma despite being able to use haki. Shanks protecting his legendary blade his haki is much different from protecting the body.

Haki/Armament Haki

Color of Armament Haki, or simply Armament Haki, is a form of Haki that allows the user to use their own spiritual energy to create, in essence, an invisible piece of armor around themself, providing incredible offensive and defensive capabilities.[2] Notably, this form of Haki can be used to...

onepiece.fandom.com

"create invisible armor." I'm assuming the poison wouldn't be able to touch the skin.

Just like Oden's top tier haki allowed him to not touch the boilling oil he was executed in? It didn't: he had to endure the burning pain since the start of the hour. He would have prolongued his time and chances of holding up by covering himself in haki if it could work.

We aren't talking here about getting splashed by a little bit of poison or protecting a blade. We are talking about the monstruous amount of poison Magellan can generate and control. It has never been proven that haki can protect the skin from poison, but even then here the character should cover their entire body with haki and keep up that kind of concentration for a while.

Until we are shown that a character is able to harmlessly entirely bathe in poison or lava (and we're talking here about poison so strong rocks instantly melt from it) there's nothing to support that any character has enough haki control to come out alive from that.

We don't know for sure if Magellan is able of using haki (although it's likely) but he's already extremely strong just with his DF ability alone. He's at least above most Shichibukais' level. Neither Crocodile nor Jinbei wanted to engage him. Doflamingo, Mihawk and Hancock may be the only ones on or above his level.

So far only two characters have shown "full body haki". One is Vergo and he didn't exactly "bypass" Law's cut. Haki allows to ignore some DF-related defenses, but bypassing defenses doesn't mean going through a mountain of poison without getting poisoned.
The other character was Big Mom, who can actually maintain full-body haki subconsciously and could perhaps go through Magellan's Hydra but wouldn't because she has many ways to kill Magellan without exposing herself to his poison anyway. Magellan may be admiral level or right below, but he's definitiely not Yonkou-level because as I mentioned in some other posts, he's vulnerable to many kinds of long-ranged non-physical attacks like slashes and beams (it's different for bullets and the likes, since they could potentially melt in his poison before getting to him).

Actually, while writing this I've come up with a question:
If I remember correctly Kaido was said to have been captured in the past and they tried to execute him more than once. Is that right? Couldn't it be expected that after other methods of execution failed, they also tried having Magellan poison him to death to no effect? Or did the Government just conviniently never thought of that?

 

[M3J]

If Magellan was an Emperor level, then he wouldn't have been beaten in Impel Down.

 

[nik87]

If Magellan was an Emperor level, then he wouldn't have been beaten in Impel Down.

Not necessarily, you know how Oda does whatever is necessary for the plot...
Blackbeard and his whole crew were no diffed by Magellan in ID while that same Blackbeard, on the same day, fared better against Whitebeard than Akainu and soon after was proclaimed an Emperor.

Magellan could be close to Admiral level, especially if his post-TS version scales up well with all the haki and stuff... In ID, his level could even be increased due to closed space and his toxic breath benefiting from it.

 

[M3J]

Not necessarily, you know how Oda does whatever is necessary for the plot...
Blackbeard and his whole crew were no diffed by Magellan in ID while that same Blackbeard, on the same day, fared better against Whitebeard than Akainu and soon after was proclaimed an Emperor.

Magellan could be close to Admiral level, especially if his post-TS version scales up well with all the haki and stuff... In ID, his level could even be increased due to closed space and his toxic breath benefiting from it.

Were Blackbeard and his crew expecting poison? Blackbeard beat an old and wounded Whitebeard who was sick to begin with, and it took the entire crew attacking him to finish Whitebeard off. Before that Whitebeard was beating Blackbeard well enough, whereas Akainu fought on his own.

Magellan still lost, and he was beaten badly from what Sengoku was told. In Impel Down, Magellan likely had the benefit of small spaces that made it hard to dodge his poison.

 

[nik87]

Were Blackbeard and his crew expecting poison? Blackbeard beat an old and wounded Whitebeard who was sick to begin with, and it took the entire crew attacking him to finish Whitebeard off. Before that Whitebeard was beating Blackbeard well enough, whereas Akainu fought on his own.

Magellan still lost, and he was beaten badly from what Sengoku was told. In Impel Down, Magellan likely had the benefit of small spaces that made it hard to dodge his poison.

Does poison gets less problematic if they were expecting it? Aside from Blackbeard's Yami ability, there is nothing much they can do about it in place like ID...
I wasnt refering to Blacbeard's offense but to his defense - he took a clean slash from WB's weapon and Quake detonation inside his head, that is better than 2 punches which Akainu took.

We dont know how he was beaten up. He remains one of the most problematic individuals in the verse. DF lethality is among the highest out there, he uses sharp weapons and incorporates venom through them as well, his Venom Demon seems to be an awakening which dwarfs any other awakening seen so far and if he scales up well in post-TS, with CoO and CoA, he should be a force to be reckoned with, not far off the admirals.

 

[HereNThere]

I think those were mixed with artificial DF... we know both Vegapunk and Judge worked on synthetic human research before they were forcibly split... So now Vegapunk's research may be using cloens with artificial DF and forcibly awakening them to act as obidient creatures...

We'll have to see. Chopper's "Monster" form was implied to be an awakening as it greatly resembled the Jailer Beast, so I'm hesitant to say they were artificial.

If Magellan was an Emperor level, then he wouldn't have been beaten in Impel Down.

He doesn't have to be Emporer level, but he at least needs to be YC1 or YC2. He needs to be comparable to an Admiral at least, even if he's not exactly on their level.

As for the poison discussion, haki may prevent against the physical poisons for a period, but you'd still have the poisonous gases to worry about too. Take to much of that and I doubt the haki defenses will be able to stay up.

I think you are kind of under selling the severity of the beat down he got. It was Blackbeard, his crew, and the newly released level 6 prisoners who stomped him. Basically the same group who killed Whitebeard. I don't think he's Emporer level or even on the level of the OG Admirals, but it's still impressive he survived that.

 

[thedude]

It doesn't prove anything. We've seen blades to break or stop like the instances others have shown on this thread...

Luffy vs Cracker was an example where Luffy's haki wasn't enough, doesn't apply universally....



Thank you for changing the topic from swords, i think my post above will be my last addressing this, @nik87 lets agree to disagree / put this on hold for a while.

Now on your quoted statement, here is why i disagree with:
1. heading a group housing the worst of the world would need someone with immense strength, so he is clearly at vice-admiral level or above .
2. Heading an organization with worst of the worst criminals in the world
3. shows exemplary usage of his DF ability, like using it to swim and stuf....
4. is possibly an awakened paramecia, seeing his abiliies (possible, not sure0..

I think he's nearly admiral level, definitely above a VA level.... Also i dont see how Haki can protect you against Magellan for too long... For a bit, yes but not for long.

VA is just a terrible level to put someone in. You have Garp and Tsuru who are/were monsters, and admirals like Aokiji were VA. But then you have guys like Smoker, who got trashed by Vergo and Doflamingo, or the guy Bartolomeo nearly killed, or the who nearly had his skull crushed by Ace. So VA seems to be anywhere from below Sanji level all the way up to Garp level.

I think, and I've said in this thread, Magellan is probably close to Admiral level, so that would be at least high end VA. He trashed Iva, who then went on to show his strength vs Kuma at Marineford. He one shotted BB's whole crew, and only lost later what was likely a massive pile on with BB's whole crew, including Shilew and the level 6 prisoners. Magellan is strong, he wouldn't be in charge of all those terrible criminals if he wasn't.

Kong I have no opinion on. I'd say obviously at one point he's Admiral level. At this age, just like Sengoku and Garp, it's hard to say exactly where he fits. Maybe just below that level, but probably still stronger than most VA's.

 

[Nie Li]

VA is just a terrible level to put someone in. You have Garp and Tsuru who are/were monsters, and admirals like Aokiji were VA. But then you have guys like Smoker, who got trashed by Vergo and Doflamingo, or the guy Bartolomeo nearly killed, or the who nearly had his skull crushed by Ace. So VA seems to be anywhere from below Sanji level all the way up to Garp level.

I think, and I've said in this thread, Magellan is probably close to Admiral level, so that would be at least high end VA. He trashed Iva, who then went on to show his strength vs Kuma at Marineford. He one shotted BB's whole crew, and only lost later what was likely a massive pile on with BB's whole crew, including Shilew and the level 6 prisoners. Magellan is strong, he wouldn't be in charge of all those terrible criminals if he wasn't.

While I agree with everything I wouldn't use Doflamingo to diss someone. Mingo's strong.

Kong I have no opinion on. I'd say obviously at one point he's Admiral level. At this age, just like Sengoku and Garp, it's hard to say exactly where he fits. Maybe just below that level, but probably still stronger than most VA's.

Whitebeard was very old as well and he was still above admiral level so until Kong shows any skill or feat on panel he could be anywhere from above admiral level to strong vice admiral level. I'd guess unless he has a strong fruit, his power should have diminished from his time as fleet admiral since he's more of a bureaucrat now which means he shouldn't have had any serious fight in years, on top of being old.

 

[thedude]

Does poison gets less problematic if they were expecting it? Aside from Blackbeard's Yami ability, there is nothing much they can do about it in place like ID...
I wasnt refering to Blacbeard's offense but to his defense - he took a clean slash from WB's weapon and Quake detonation inside his head, that is better than 2 punches which Akainu took.

We dont know how he was beaten up. He remains one of the most problematic individuals in the verse. DF lethality is among the highest out there, he uses sharp weapons and incorporates venom through them as well, his Venom Demon seems to be an awakening which dwarfs any other awakening seen so far and if he scales up well in post-TS, with CoO and CoA, he should be a force to be reckoned with, not far off the admirals.

I wish more of your posts were like this...

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 2, 2020 ---

While I agree with everything I wouldn't use Doflamingo to diss someone. Mingo's strong.


Whitebeard was very old as well and he was still above admiral level so until Kong shows any skill or feat on panel he could be anywhere from above admiral level to strong vice admiral level. I'd guess unless he has a strong fruit, his power should have diminished from his time as fleet admiral since he's more of a bureaucrat now which means he shouldn't have had any serious fight in years, on top of being old.

Oh, for sure he's strong. As is Vergo. But on one hand you have admiral level VA's, and on the other you have guys Doflamingo toys with for fun. It's just a very wide scale, which renders it useless as a "level". Admiral level makes sense. Yonko level makes sense. But VA is just almost meaningless as a way to discuss strength given what we've seen.


I would guess Kong has a gorilla fruit. That should be a powerful Zoan.

 

[albertwv]

Just like in that same arc Blackbeard went to the floor after a single punch from "PRE TS Gear 2 Luffy" and was visibly very hurt despite getting back up? Despite Blackbeard by then having already beaten Whitebeard's second fleet commander?
That logic doesn't really work. Magellan not being the strongest physically doesn't mean he isn't broken because of his poison.


You mean Hannibal can't have gotten stronger over the span of the same two years during which Zoro, Luffy and Sanji went from having a hard time tagteaming a Pacifista to annihilating any Pacifista with a single hit?


I don't. Blackbeard at the time had no means of defeating Magellan. Nor did others like Burgess. I don't know about the rest since the Doc hasn't shown much and the sniper would obviously have an advantage if he could snipe Magellan.


Going by the same logic of mentioning Akainu and Marineford; Whitebeard and Ace must have been weaklings to you if they were damaged by magma despite being able to use haki. Shanks protecting his legendary blade his haki is much different from protecting the body.


Just like Oden's top tier haki allowed him to not touch the boilling oil he was executed in? It didn't: he had to endure the burning pain since the start of the hour. He would have prolongued his time and chances of holding up by covering himself in haki if it could work.

We aren't talking here about getting splashed by a little bit of poison or protecting a blade. We are talking about the monstruous amount of poison Magellan can generate and control. It has never been proven that haki can protect the skin from poison, but even then here the character should cover their entire body with haki and keep up that kind of concentration for a while.

Until we are shown that a character is able to harmlessly entirely bathe in poison or lava (and we're talking here about poison so strong rocks instantly melt from it) there's nothing to support that any character has enough haki control to come out alive from that.

We don't know for sure if Magellan is able of using haki (although it's likely) but he's already extremely strong just with his DF ability alone. He's at least above most Shichibukais' level. Neither Crocodile nor Jinbei wanted to engage him. Doflamingo, Mihawk and Hancock may be the only ones on or above his level.

So far only two characters have shown "full body haki". One is Vergo and he didn't exactly "bypass" Law's cut. Haki allows to ignore some DF-related defenses, but bypassing defenses doesn't mean going through a mountain of poison without getting poisoned.
The other character was Big Mom, who can actually maintain full-body haki subconsciously and could perhaps go through Magellan's Hydra but wouldn't because she has many ways to kill Magellan without exposing herself to his poison anyway. Magellan may be admiral level or right below, but he's definitiely not Yonkou-level because as I mentioned in some other posts, he's vulnerable to many kinds of long-ranged non-physical attacks like slashes and beams (it's different for bullets and the likes, since they could potentially melt in his poison before getting to him).

BB and his crew vs Magellan 1st fight, even Shiryu commented that they were unprepared. Im pretty sure if BB knew what to expect he wouldve used his DF to suck up the poison from Magellan and then attacked him. It probably would be a Mid diff battle but BB wouldve won in the end.

Haki wont protect the user from the poison or magma but it will let the user bypass that DF defense and hit the real body. That's what I meant in the case of Shanks vs Akainu. Akainu vs WB or Ace, they didnt seem to have control of their haki or atleast WB. I dont think Ace had haki.

You really think Hannibal got stronger to the point he is now as strong as level 6 inmates who he is supposed to guard? People are assuming Magellan must be admiral level because he was guarding level 6 inmates. I think that claim is useless. The inmates when they come in to ID are already in seastone cuffs so Magellan doesnt have to worry about fighting them. So he doesnt have to be as strong or stronger than them. HE got his ass kicked by level 6 inmates and BB. AND yes I dont think Hannibal has gotten a power up. Not many characters after a certain point in life get stronger, especially after they have been defeated or as the plot progresses. There's only few characters who Oda wants to bring back into the storyline who have become stronger like Rob Lucci, Kaku, Crocodile, Smoker, Coby, Bellamy. But the majority they dont get powered up. There's no reason for Hannibal to get powered up especially one to the level of level 6 inmates.

Also regarding VAs. There are 3 levels of VAs.
Level 1: Maynard and Smoker weak
Level 2: The VAs who were in Marineford lineup, too many to name and Vergo
Level 3: Garp who shouldnt even be considered as VA.
Tsuru would be level 2.5 because while she seems strong because shes a veteran, she really hasnt shown anything worth feats, her only strong feat was scaring Doffy (Pre-warlord) in retreating. And that isnt even that much. So honestly I would rank her level 2 VA

 

[HereNThere]

The scale for Vice Admirals is just to wide in scope to make them a reliable form of ranking, at least, until we see more of them in action.

Plus, breaking the rank down further isn't even necessary when we can use the tier system we use for pirates.

Smoker and Vergo can be considered a New World Veterans.

Maynard is weaker than a Next Gen Supernova.

Garp and, most likely, Tsunu are Admiral level.

 

[hokageji]

We'll have to see. Chopper's "Monster" form was implied to be an awakening as it greatly resembled the Jailer Beast, so I'm hesitant to say they were artificial.

Why would monster point not apply to artificial DFs?
I dont see the correlation. Anyways, its just a theory so your skepticism could be right....

The reason i am calling it artificial DF is because only Vegapunk was shown to be capable of this, but yea, it doesnt have to be. THe important point is synthetic humans / bodies similar to Pacifistas, cos we never saw them in their human form.

A is just a terrible level to put someone in. You have Garp and Tsuru who are/were monsters, and admirals like Aokiji were VA. But then you have guys like Smoker, who got trashed by Vergo and Doflamingo, or the guy Bartolomeo nearly killed, or the who nearly had his skull crushed by Ace. So VA seems to be anywhere from below Sanji level all the way up to Garp level.

Agreed, but those vice-admirals are exceptions..
Garp, Gion and Tokkikake were confirmed to be considered for Admiral positions, so they should be all admiral level... Tsuru considers Gion her little sister so one can argue that Tsuru also deserves to be an Admiral...

So the level is apt, but we do have exceptions in a political structure.

I think, and I've said in this thread, Magellan is probably close to Admiral level, so that would be at least high end VA.

Yea, i feel the same, Magellan would be above the traditional VA rankins... i also said he'd be nearly admiral level for the same reasons.

 

[HereNThere]

Why would monster point not apply to artificial DFs?
I dont see the correlation. Anyways, its just a theory so your skepticism could be right....

It's moreso me being skeptical of Artificial Fruits possessing the ability to Awaken. You may be right yourself. Fact is, we don't have enough information about any of these concepts right now.

 

[M3J]

Does poison gets less problematic if they were expecting it? Aside from Blackbeard's Yami ability, there is nothing much they can do about it in place like ID...
I wasnt refering to Blacbeard's offense but to his defense - he took a clean slash from WB's weapon and Quake detonation inside his head, that is better than 2 punches which Akainu took.

We dont know how he was beaten up. He remains one of the most problematic individuals in the verse. DF lethality is among the highest out there, he uses sharp weapons and incorporates venom through them as well, his Venom Demon seems to be an awakening which dwarfs any other awakening seen so far and if he scales up well in post-TS, with CoO and CoA, he should be a force to be reckoned with, not far off the admirals.

Yeah because it's easier to dodge something you know is coming, unless he just spurts out gas.

I know, I was thinking about his defense, but Akainu was still getting back up, so I don't think you can really state which one is superior.

Definitely if he learns CoA.

We'll have to see. Chopper's "Monster" form was implied to be an awakening as it greatly resembled the Jailer Beast, so I'm hesitant to say they were artificial.




He doesn't have to be Emporer level, but he at least needs to be YC1 or YC2. He needs to be comparable to an Admiral at least, even if he's not exactly on their level.

As for the poison discussion, haki may prevent against the physical poisons for a period, but you'd still have the poisonous gases to worry about too. Take to much of that and I doubt the haki defenses will be able to stay up.

I think you are kind of under selling the severity of the beat down he got. It was Blackbeard, his crew, and the newly released level 6 prisoners who stomped him. Basically the same group who killed Whitebeard. I don't think he's Emporer level or even on the level of the OG Admirals, but it's still impressive he survived that.

Why would he have to be, especially if prisoners are handcuffed? Poison alone should usually get the job done.

True.

Eh, if he was as good as a YC1, his poison fruit should have taken them down.

 

[HereNThere]

Why would he have to be, especially if prisoners are handcuffed? Poison alone should usually get the job done.

I'd just hope he'd have strength beyond just his devil fruit abilities. I'd think it flat out irresponsible to put someone in charge of the most important prison in their world just becuase of their devil fruit, especially when one the key things we learn about the New World is that those who rely too much on their fruit ain't worth much.

Eh, if he was as good as a YC1, his poison fruit should have taken them down.

I mean, it worked until they retrieved the antidote from Shiryu. Nevermind that Blackbeard had the ability to cancel devil fruit abilities with his Darkness Fruit. So the fruit is out the equations 2 times over.

If he was as good as YC1 we wouldn't know. It's been made pretty clear that power levels during that point in the series aren't consistent with what we know about them now.

 

[M3J]

I'd just hope he'd have strength beyond just his devil fruit abilities. I'd think it flat out irresponsible to put someone in charge of the most important prison in their world just becuase of their devil fruit, especially when one the key things we learn about the New World is that those who rely too much on their fruit ain't worth much.



I mean, it worked until they retrieved the antidote from Shiryu. Nevermind that Blackbeard had the ability to cancel devil fruit abilities with his Darkness Fruit. So the fruit is out the equations 2 times over.

If he was as good as YC1 we wouldn't know. It's been made pretty clear that power levels during that point in the series aren't consistent with what we know about them now.

I dunno, haven't some characters pointed out that devil fruit users are often weak once their fruit power is taken away? Did Blackbeard say this to Ace, or did someone say this to Luffy? But they could have thought Magellan's fruit was powerful enough to take out anyone if there's any trouble, and so far it was true until Luffy and Blackbeard came along, and Shiryuu betrayed Magellan. It does seem like Blackbeard relies on his fruit a lot, and the end result is that he's one of the Emperors now, so who knows.

I know, but you'd also think Magellan could make his poison work quickly.