One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Jack survived an attack from Zunisha and wasn't phased much, Picas damage isn't going to really make much difference. Not sure how this would go as we have yet to see a full

Queen has his plague, literally all he needs to do is keep the poisons going (the Golem is not solid, it has openings).

Cracker - this is difficult, but Cracker is as competent a swordsman so id assume he would perform the same as Zoro did.

Edit: Got a bit carried away at the end. I think its a good question but its hard to answer as these guys have very little showings.

The rocks which Queen was thrown into defeat him and he survived and wasnt phased much either. Still was defeated from rocks.
Plague doesnt spread through the stone... This is not Venom Demon...
What is the most competent feat of Cracker the swordsman? Why are you giving free feats to Cracker and from no one else than future WSS? lol

Pica is bad match-up for combatants like those 3, it doesnt diminish their strength, they are capable of beating individuals which Pica cannot.
However, they better pray for DC feats from Oda but seeing how Cracker ended up with a full fight and yet 0 DC feats, they might remain without them.
They can pray for high mobility to at least get out of the way but seeing that they are rather built tanky than mobile...

Nothing bad about it. Pica's DF is a powerful one, it will make a child as powerful as WSC if both focus only on combat through Pica's DF.
There is no reward for high stats from such fruit. Everyone gets to do with it the same, mobilize stone and benefit from size and weight it offers.
However, fruits like Foxy's will not make a child as powerful as WSC with the same fruit. Foxy's fruit offers his reward to high skilled fighters.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I agree with you as I don't think I'm arguing against a person ultilising a DF better or that their combat strength may play a part, I'm saying the DF properties don't change.

Op Op no mi is still OP regardless of user because of its utility i.e. you don't need to be Yonko tier to really wreck face e.g. personality swap, as these powers are built into the fruit itself.

Picas fruit so far we have only seen one trick and that trick is not exactly threatening to anyone competent.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2020 ---

Jack survived an attack from Zunisha and wasn't phased much, Picas damage isn't going to really make much difference. Not sure how this would go as we have yet to see a full

Queen has his plague, literally all he needs to do is keep the poisons going (the Golem is not solid, it has openings).

Cracker - this is difficult, but Cracker is as competent a swordsman so id assume he would perform the same as Zoro did.

Edit: Got a bit carried away at the end. I think its a good question but its hard to answer as these guys have very little showings.

Cracker as a Yonko Commander swordsman is more than enough to defeat Pica the same way Zoro did, but with the same help Zoro got.

Pic could run away for ever so the best way to beat him is to send him running, or a sneak attack, but he's not beating anyone reasonably strong enough.

In no scenario does Pica beat Zoro in Dressrosa, but likewise Zoro doesn't win without a sneak attack unless Pica fled permanently.

 

[jaymizzo]

The rocks which Queen was thrown into defeat him and he survived and wasnt phased much either. Still was defeated from rocks.
Plague doesnt spread through the stone... This is not Venom Demon...
What is the most competent feat of Cracker the swordsman? Why are you giving free feats to Cracker and from no one else than future WSS? lol

Pica is bad match-up for combatants like those 3, it doesnt diminish their strength, they are capable of beating individuals which Pica cannot.
However, they better pray for DC feats from Oda but seeing how Cracker ended up with a full fight and yet 0 DC feats, they might remain without them.
They can pray for high mobility to at least get out of the way but seeing that they are rather built tanky than mobile...

Nothing bad about it. Pica's DF is a powerful one, it will make a child as powerful as WSC if both focus only on combat through Pica's DF.
There is no reward for high stats from such fruit. Everyone gets to do with it the same, mobilize stone and benefit from size and weight it offers.
However, fruits like Foxy's will not make a child as powerful as WSC with the same fruit. Foxy's fruit offers his reward to high skilled fighters.

Cracker can't have "DC" feats because most of that fight was off paneled. He also didn't need those "DC" feats because he wasn't fighting a Golem.

Plague is a gas no?

That's your opinion at the end of the day with absolutely no basis, and one that no matter the evidence, the goal post will either move or evidence rejected.

 

[thedude]

Jack fought for days, no rest, against strong characters like Neko and Inu, and then sank multiple battleships, and then was barely hurt from getting smashed by Zunisha. He's not losing to Pica.

I also don't think Queen even needs gas to beat him. He's strong as hell, and has a very powerful Zoan DF. Pica ain't Big Mom.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2020 ---

It's weird to say these people have no counter for Pica, when Zoro is just a swordsman. Cracker and Queen have swords! And DF's. So why can't they beat him? Jack has his two swords as well. Plus his mammoth fruit.

 

[Aliocha]

Pika would also not defeat any of them

 

[Shasha23]

Jack fought for days, no rest, against strong characters like Neko and Inu, and then sank multiple battleships, and then was barely hurt from getting smashed by Zunisha. He's not losing to Pica.

I also don't think Queen even needs gas to beat him. He's strong as hell, and has a very powerful Zoan DF. Pica ain't Big Mom.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2020 ---

It's weird to say these people have no counter for Pica, when Zoro is just a swordsman. Cracker and Queen have swords! And DF's. So why can't they beat him? Jack has his two swords as well. Plus his mammoth fruit.

I dont think Pica can beat them but i also think they can beat him either since they cant force him out.

Nik's point here is to show how foolish you guys are to force your own headcanons as facts, in a factual debate you cant just assume someone can do something when they have never done it, thats just stupid!

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020 ---

Pika would also not defeat any of them

Yes he is not strong enough to beat them, but i also dont think they are capable of forcing him out of the rocks if he just hides from them while using charlestone to attack.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Nik's point here is to show how foolish you guys are to force your own headcanons as facts, in a factual debate you cant just assume someone can do something when they have never done it, thats just stupid!

The problem is no one was being foolish and have continued to refute his outrageous claims.

How hypocritical that you are saying its our headcannon when nik claims Pica can solo the Flying 6 at the same time. So please... please stop

 

[jaymizzo]

The problem is no one was being foolish and have continued to refute his outrageous claims.

How hypocritical that you are saying its our headcannon when nik claims Pica can solo the Flying 6 at the same time. So please... please stop

Beat me to it!

Tbh, I do get where @nik87 is coming from even though I disagree (minus the Zoro stuff, just a general sense), specifically about DFs having weird advantages over each other. Or a troublesome DF making it harder to score a satisfying win. Maybe im wrong and this is not what he is implying.

 

[nik87]

Cracker can't have "DC" feats because most of that fight was off paneled. He also didn't need those "DC" feats because he wasn't fighting a Golem.

Plague is a gas no?

That's your opinion at the end of the day with absolutely no basis, and one that no matter the evidence, the goal post will either move or evidence rejected.

We cant be giving Cracker random feats he didnt show. We got from him what we will ever get, what he has shown, that's his toolset. 0 DC.
Why give him Zoro's feats, why stop there? Give him Mihawk's feats, he is a swordsman too. Doesnt work that way...

Plague is a biological weapon, a virus that spreads through actual bodies. I know of no virus that spreads through rocks...
Yes, it is an educated guess. How will Kaido's stats make the stone golem more powerful than Pica's stats? They wont...

 

[Shasha23]

The problem is no one was being foolish and have continued to refute his outrageous claims.

How hypocritical that you are saying its our headcannon when nik claims Pica can solo the Flying 6 at the same time. So please... please stop

When did you see me replying to Pica vs Flying 6?

Props again Lexus-kun, your the best here at using fallacy on everyone of your posts.

 

[Aliocha]

by this logic Pika >>>King

 

[nik87]

by this logic Pika >>>King

Of course if King doesnt show DC stat required to at least destroy the mountain hand that is trying to squash him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

When did you see me replying to Pica vs Flying 6?

Props again Lexus-kun, your the best here at using fallacy on everyone of your posts.

Proving you can't understand a simple comment.

 

[Aliocha]

Of course if King doesnt show DC stat required to at least destroy the mountain hand that is trying to squash him.

luffy g4 has stronger attacks than Piika's golem

And I doubt that he can knock out a YC1 easily

 

[jaymizzo]

We cant be giving Cracker random feats he didnt show. We got from him that we will ever get, what he has shown, that's his toolset. 0 DC.
Why give him Zoro's feats, why stop there? Give him Mihawk's feats, he is a swordsman too. Doesnt work that way...

Plague is a biological weapon, a virus that spreads through actual bodies. I know of not virus that spreads through rocks...
Yes, it is an educated guess. How will Kaido's stats make the stone golem more powerful than Pica's stats? They wont...

I agree that you shouldn't award characters feats from others but that wasn't what I was doing.

Cracker is an elite character in the NW who is also a swordsman. I don't know what else needs to be said here. Shanks has no feats whatsoever, would you say he loses against Pica?

IIRC Queen has other biological weapons in the form of gas (what Jack used IIRC). That can get through the openings in the Golem.

On the last bit you seem to agree with me on that "the properties of the DF do not change". And as @Lexusflame pointed out, the deciding factor is the wielder. My whole point is that the fruit is nothing special, you'd have to do a whole lot to it to make it so. On that note, it makes no sense why you would claim the DF would make a kid into the WSC. At least we all kinda agree that its not OP like it was made out to be.

 

[nik87]

luffy g4 has stronger attacks than Piika's golem
And I doubt that he can knock out a YC1 easily

Why was YC2 Queen taken out just by being thrown into stone? You think a mountain of stone wont take him out even easier?
Assuming he has no DC required since he hasnt shown such so far.
Idk about Luffy having a stronger attack, KKG may be comparable but we havent seen it on either YC1s nor without projectile(Doffy).

Cracker is an elite character in the NW who is also a swordsman. I don't know what else needs to be said here. Shanks has no feats whatsoever, would you say he loses against Pica?

Elite character who has had his 1vs1 against no other than MC(situation where you get the most panel time) and yet, 0 DC feats.
Should we gift Snack the same free feats because he too is elite character? Not every swordsman is capable of same things, that simple.
Shanks has no feats indeed but is one of the most powerful individuals in the verse and happens to be a swordsman who is 2nd best at it after Mihawk so we could assume that he is capable of comparable things to Mihawk whose casual DC stat we have seen in Marineford. No, he shouldnt lose to Pica.

IIRC Queen has other biological weapons in the form of gas (what Jack used IIRC). That can get through the openings in the Golem.

You mixed it up with Caesar.

On the last bit you seem to agree with me on that "the properties of the DF do not change". And as @Lexusflame pointed out, the deciding factor is the wielder. My whole point is that the fruit is nothing special, you'd have to do a whole lot to it to make it so. On that note, it makes no sense why you would claim the DF would make a kid into the WSC. At least we all kinda agree that its not OP like it was made out to be.

No matter what you do, that fruit's abilities wont change. How does it depend on the wielder when it doesnt? Sugar would be able to assimilate stone with it, Kaido would be able to do the same. Where is the difference? It is a good fruit since it requires 0 skills while offering pretty amazing stuff but doesnt reward the highly skilled combatants and their stats. I didnt say it would make a kid into a WSC, I said both kid and WSC would perform the same with that fruit.

 

[Aliocha]

Why was YC2 Queen taken out just by being thrown into stone? You think a mountain of stone wont take him out even easier?
Assuming he has no DC required since he hasnt shown such so far.
Idk about Luffy having a stronger attack, KKG may be comparable but we havent seen it on either YC1s nor without projectile(Doffy).

Queen was attacked by a Yonkou, and he was right afterwards, how important is that? Just because Big Mom didn't destroy a city on the way?

Kaidou knocked out G4 Luffy and barely caused any destruction, can any iron rod with haki knock out Luffy now?

Pika's golem punch just destroying a few houses when he attacked the population, Luffy's KKG pierced Doflamingo through a city. A feat from another scale

 

[Shasha23]

Proving you can't understand a simple comment.

Typical response from you as expected.

You cant beat anyone at a factual argument so you would rather attack the person and use strawman arguments, you have truly turned into a disappointment as a debater here in the forums

 

[Aki1991]

Are we now really having a discussion about Pica being stronger than Queen? I'm giving up. This threat is lost long time ago already?

 

[nik87]

Queen was attacked by a Yonkou, and he was right afterwards, how important is that? Just because Big Mom didn't destroy a city on the way?
Kaidou knocked out G4 Luffy and barely caused any destruction, can any iron rod with haki knock out Luffy now?
Pika's golem punch just destroying a few houses when he attacked the population, Luffy's KKG pierced Doflamingo through a city. A feat from another scale

How was he attacked by a Yonko? Being thrown into stone. The stone is doing the damage, not the Yonko.
How is mountain falling on Queen inferior than being thrown into stone by O-Lin?
In O-Lin's case, it was Queen's own weight and speed of the throw that damaged him.
In Pica's case, it is the weight of a mountain and its speed that he has to deal with.

When a rod has more weight and speed behind it than the one in Kaido's case, of course. Assuming both are hakiclad, basic invisible CoA.
You dont even need to surpass Kaido's case, weaker feat will knock him out.
Pica's punch has far more weight than Luffy's punch. Speed probably goes in Luffy's favor and he had a projectile(Doffy).
We dont know how destructive it is without the projectile. KKG affected only a couple of city blocks, worse than Pica's punch which is town-sized.