One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Yep, although I think losing Crocodile did hurt their strength a bit, more than losing Moria. And as shichibukai are one of the faces of the Government, it makes sense that the Government cares about their reputation as well, as it shows that the Government and the Marines are weak if their shichibukai keep losing to a rookie.

 

[albertwv]

Honestly, growing up I thought the 7 Warlords were gonna be badasses. But now they dont seem all that great. They were the main reason I got into One Piece.
Anyways, I seriously doubt the 7 original warlords would pose a problem to 1 Yonko Crew. Seeing how Kaido took out G4 Luffy who had defeated Dogtooth and Doffy. Kaido himself can take out the warlords.

WB vs the Admirals wasnt fully shown. First of all, his WSM title didnt exactly reflect on him at that time in MF. He was sick and maybe the Marines didnt know it at that time until he collapsed and they (Akainu) took advantage.
Now put it in this context. WB old age but in good health vs. Akainu outside of MF 1v1. WB will beat the crap out of him right away. Think about why WB didnt go all out at MF. He didnt want to harm his crew and Ace. all 3 Admirals had to use their combined forcefield haki to deflect not block but deflect his one attack and it still created a lot of damaged to the island.

 

[Ramen]

Honestly, growing up I thought the 7 Warlords were gonna be badasses. But now they dont seem all that great. They were the main reason I got into One Piece.
Anyways, I seriously doubt the 7 original warlords would pose a problem to 1 Yonko Crew. Seeing how Kaido took out G4 Luffy who had defeated Dogtooth and Doffy. Kaido himself can take out the warlords.

WB vs the Admirals wasnt fully shown. First of all, his WSM title didnt exactly reflect on him at that time in MF. He was sick and maybe the Marines didnt know it at that time until he collapsed and they (Akainu) took advantage.
Now put it in this context. WB old age but in good health vs. Akainu outside of MF 1v1. WB will beat the crap out of him right away. Think about why WB didnt go all out at MF. He didnt want to harm his crew and Ace. all 3 Admirals had to use their combined forcefield haki to deflect not block but deflect his one attack and it still created a lot of damaged to the island.

OK realistically speaking, Kizaru is a monster and a top 10 strongest character.

How would he do if he actually went to MF by himself? Lol

 

[nik87]

Kaido himself can take out the warlords.

Mihawk alone can keep Kaido busy.
At least 2 CoC users among them with Doffy and Hancock, that's 95% of Yonko forces gone, passed out.
One petrification attack form Boa and one Ursus Shock from Kuma and that's reducing the Yonko crew to around 10 characters.

Suddenly an entire army vs Seven becomes Ten vs Seven. The odds suddenly dont look that bad.
All those taken out soldiers are free shadow boost for Moriah who in Shadow Asgard is at top of physical strength, aside from that his abilities are tricky enough, the bats, doppelganger, he can keep the weakest among those 10 left at least.

Jinbe is a monster who has gone against both emperors and admirals and actually made both look not that impressive. He also has effective water-based techniques. Sir Crocodile has incredible mastery over his devil fruit and great AOEs as well as one-shot ability, he already has proven that he aint going down easily against Yonko commanders.

Doflamingos endurance is among the best, his Awakening will be troublesome for most, Boa's kicks seem very effective, Kuma is simply broken character, plot induced stupidity is required to keep his abilities in check. If Kaido himself can take all 7 of them, why would the Marines bother for so many years to use Shichibukais if they arent a formidable force capable of stoping Yonkos?

 

[McNuss]

Honestly, growing up I thought the 7 Warlords were gonna be badasses. But now they dont seem all that great. They were the main reason I got into One Piece.
Anyways, I seriously doubt the 7 original warlords would pose a problem to 1 Yonko Crew. Seeing how Kaido took out G4 Luffy who had defeated Dogtooth and Doffy. Kaido himself can take out the warlords.

WB vs the Admirals wasnt fully shown. First of all, his WSM title didnt exactly reflect on him at that time in MF. He was sick and maybe the Marines didnt know it at that time until he collapsed and they (Akainu) took advantage.
Now put it in this context. WB old age but in good health vs. Akainu outside of MF 1v1. WB will beat the crap out of him right away. Think about why WB didnt go all out at MF. He didnt want to harm his crew and Ace. all 3 Admirals had to use their combined forcefield haki to deflect not block but deflect his one attack and it still created a lot of damaged to the island.

But there is no old age WB in good health.

 

[thedude]

I think the Warlords are more a threat to the top tier in the crews as opposed to the actual Yonko. The WG never sends a warlord to take out a Yonko, they only call on them to help the marines fight them, and as we saw, the warlords stuck to fighting commanders and mopping up fodder. A top tier Schicibukai is probably good vs a mid tier YC. But none of them are going one on one and coming away to tell the tale later on.

I mean, Mihawk had to test his strength vs WB from hundreds of meters away!

The Schibukai also serve to keep weaker crews from causing too much trouble, and that's why the government supported them and didn't want them to lose since it made other pirates bolder. Now they have the Pacifista's to do that.

 

[Nie Li]

I think the Warlords are more a threat to the top tier in the crews as opposed to the actual Yonko. The WG never sends a warlord to take out a Yonko, they only call on them to help the marines fight them, and as we saw, the warlords stuck to fighting commanders and mopping up fodder. A top tier Schicibukai is probably good vs a mid tier YC. But none of them are going one on one and coming away to tell the tale later on.

I mean, Mihawk had to test his strength vs WB from hundreds of meters away!

The Schibukai also serve to keep weaker crews from causing too much trouble, and that's why the government supported them and didn't want them to lose since it made other pirates bolder. Now they have the Pacifista's to do that.

I don't get why people diss Mihawk because of his performance on Marineford.
"Mihawk had to test his strength from hundreds of meters away".
He just threw a random slash to Whitebeard to see how he would deal with it. From far away because that's where he was standing at. Then he just chilled throughout the war without putting any real effort anywhere. It's not like he's a marine and he's invested in winning such a war, he's not a marine, just like Hancock was killing pirates and marines alike, Mihawk wasn't putting his neck on the line for the sake of the World Government, he was just withholding his responsibility as a Shichibukai with his presence alone and testing out opponents like Luffy or Vista without any real motivation to try hard to take anyone down.

A guy who holds the title of the strongest swordsman, a title that implies strength on its own and that would be tasty for any other swordsman to take from him (either marine, pirates or bounty hunter swordsmen) that's known to have been well-known already before Roger's execution and that was a rival of a Yonkou as a fighter, and that doesn't even have a crew.

Yonkous, as individuals without their crews, would still be beasts but wouldn't be undefeatable if surrounded by a different crew full of monsters, yet Mihawk doesn't even have a single crewmate or friend to defend him and still no one has gone, challenged him and defeated him.

The only sense in which it's obvious that he doesn't have the strength of a yonkou is in that he lacks a crew, and so his strength as a pirate crew isn't that high and can't accomplish what the massive crew of a yonkou can, but as an individual, precisely because he has kept his title of strongest swordsman for so long and was a rival of a yonkou back from when said Yonkou still had two arms, despite having no help from no one, Mihawk's has to be a real top-tier beast.

Some Shichibukai are much weaker, but take also others like Hancock or Doflamingo. Doflamingo may not be yonkou level, but he's definitely on the level of strong yonkou commanders and he does have a somewhat strong crew, especially with hax powers like Sugar's. Hancock, on the other hand, is somewhat whose limits we still haven't seen. She's a very strong physical fighter very skilled with her haki and also with a hax DF that ignores haki defenses.

Shichibukai's are not to be taken that lightly, even if some like Moria aren't that impressive as the rest.

Hell, even Blackbeard was a Shichibukai right before becoming a Yonkou and the only difference was the gura gura no mi and the size of his crew, but he was already the guy who had scarred the face of Shanks long before being a Shichibukai.

 

[thedude]

I don't get why people diss Mihawk because of his performance on Marineford.
"Mihawk had to test his strength from hundreds of meters away".
He just threw a random slash to Whitebeard to see how he would deal with it. From far away because that's where he was standing at. Then he just chilled throughout the war without putting any real effort anywhere. It's not like he's a marine and he's invested in winning such a war, he's not a marine, just like Hancock was killing pirates and marines alike, Mihawk wasn't putting his neck on the line for the sake of the World Government, he was just withholding his responsibility as a Shichibukai with his presence alone and testing out opponents like Luffy or Vista without any real motivation to try hard to take anyone down.

A guy who holds the title of the strongest swordsman, a title that implies strength on its own and that would be tasty for any other swordsman to take from him (either marine, pirates or bounty hunter swordsmen) that's known to have been well-known already before Roger's execution and that was a rival of a Yonkou as a fighter, and that doesn't even have a crew.

Yonkous, as individuals without their crews, would still be beasts but wouldn't be undefeatable if surrounded by a different crew full of monsters, yet Mihawk doesn't even have a single crewmate or friend to defend him and still no one has gone, challenged him and defeated him.

The only sense in which it's obvious that he doesn't have the strength of a yonkou is in that he lacks a crew, and so his strength as a pirate crew isn't that high and can't accomplish what the massive crew of a yonkou can, but as an individual, precisely because he has kept his title of strongest swordsman for so long and was a rival of a yonkou back from when said Yonkou still had two arms, despite having no help from no one, Mihawk's has to be a real top-tier beast.

Some Shichibukai are much weaker, but take also others like Hancock or Doflamingo. Doflamingo may not be yonkou level, but he's definitely on the level of strong yonkou commanders and he does have a somewhat strong crew, especially with hax powers like Sugar's. Hancock, on the other hand, is somewhat whose limits we still haven't seen. She's a very strong physical fighter very skilled with her haki and also with a hax DF that ignores haki defenses.

Shichibukai's are not to be taken that lightly, even if some like Moria aren't that impressive as the rest.

Hell, even Blackbeard was a Shichibukai right before becoming a Yonkou and the only difference was the gura gura no mi and the size of his crew, but he was already the guy who had scarred the face of Shanks long before being a Shichibukai.

I'm not dissing him. I'm saying he literally said "I want to test how far away he truly is from us" and then through out a slash that people watching called "the worlds strongest slash". Now, I'm not one who buys into the whole "named attacks" being extra stronger, but it wasn't some random throw away attack he made, and he prefaced it saying it was to test his own strength vs the Yonko.

I think Mihawk, Doflamingo, Kuma, and Hancock are incredibly strong. I don't think they are on the Yonko's level though. I think they are all top tier YC level at.

 

[Ramen]

I'm not dissing him. I'm saying he literally said "I want to test how far away he truly is from us" and then through out a slash that people watching called "the worlds strongest slash". Now, I'm not one who buys into the whole "named attacks" being extra stronger, but it wasn't some random throw away attack he made, and he prefaced it saying it was to test his own strength vs the Yonko.

I think Mihawk, Doflamingo, Kuma, and Hancock are incredibly strong. I don't think they are on the Yonko's level though. I think they are all top tier YC level at.

With Mihawk, I'd definitely put him above YC.

 

[Nie Li]

I'm not dissing him. I'm saying he literally said "I want to test how far away he truly is from us" and then through out a slash that people watching called "the worlds strongest slash". Now, I'm not one who buys into the whole "named attacks" being extra stronger, but it wasn't some random throw away attack he made, and he prefaced it saying it was to test his own strength vs the Yonko.

I think Mihawk, Doflamingo, Kuma, and Hancock are incredibly strong. I don't think they are on the Yonko's level though. I think they are all top tier YC level at.

I took the "test him from hundreds of meters away" as if you meant he's a coward to test him up close or something.
Sorry I misunderstood.

I don't know about naming attacks being necessarily stronger, but I don't think it was his strongest attack or anything either. Random marines shouting something about "the world's strongest slash" doesn't imply much since they've probably never seen Mihawk go all out (we haven't seen him even ever greet his teeth with effort or sweat in combat. Not in the manga at least, he did in the anime vs Jimbei but that clash was bs).
For example, Jozu stopped that cut with his diamond body (we don't know if + haki or not), but I bet if Mihawk wanted to actually cut Jozu's body he should be able to. Just like pre-timeskip, even after Arabasta, Zoro's casual flying cuts wouldn't cut through Mr.1's body, but it would still have been an easy win for Zoro when he reached the level he had at Enies Lobby.

The problem when discussing Hancock and, even more so, Mihawk's real strength is that we haven't seen it yet. That's why I'm very impacient for the manga to show how the marines try to capture them now with their new Pacifistas.

I agree with you that those four are undoubtedly the strongest Shichibukai and they're probably top tier YC, but I do think Mihawk is possibly Yonkou level in a 1vs1, only dragged down by his lack of crew and how carefree he's at life.

 

[thedude]

With Mihawk, I'd definitely put him above YC.

Well, only thing above YC is Yonko...and I just don't see him at that level. I do think Oda has his levels for a reason. But i suppose we'll find out eventually how it all shakes out.

I have said before, in my opinion Shanks is the strongest Yonko. I know they were rivals, but since neither seems to carry any scars, I view it as a friendly rivalry where they just tested one aspect of their strength, their swordsmanship. I think he'd give Shanks a good fight, but I don't think he'd win.

 

[Ramen]

Well, only thing above YC is Yonko...and I just don't see him at that level. I do think Oda has his levels for a reason. But i suppose we'll find out eventually how it all shakes out.

I have said before, in my opinion Shanks is the strongest Yonko. I know they were rivals, but since neither seems to carry any scars, I view it as a friendly rivalry where they just tested one aspect of their strength, their swordsmanship. I think he'd give Shanks a good fight, but I don't think he'd win.

Admiral level?

I believe Shanks is the strongest Yonko too and hs undoubtedly above Mihawk but even Beckmann (who I think is the strongest YC) wouldn't beat Mihawk

 

[thedude]

Admiral level?

I believe Shanks is the strongest Yonko too and hs undoubtedly above Mihawk but even Beckmann (who I think is the strongest YC) wouldn't beat Mihawk

Hard to say about Beckmann vs Mihawk. I think it would be a tough fight, long range vs close range, and given Shanks tiny crew size, I think they are all monsters on YC level (his crew that was at Marineford). They are strong enough to compete with the massive crew of BM or Kaido, so that says they must all be incredible. But I don't have a problem believing Mihawk would be at Beckmann's level, maybe even a hair stronger. Just hard to gauge any of them right now.

 

[Ramen]

Hard to say about Beckmann vs Mihawk. I think it would be a tough fight, long range vs close range, and given Shanks tiny crew size, I think they are all monsters on YC level (his crew that was at Marineford). They are strong enough to compete with the massive crew of BM or Kaido, so that says they must all be incredible. But I don't have a problem believing Mihawk would be at Beckmann's level, maybe even a hair stronger. Just hard to gauge any of them right now.

I mean, do you believe Kizaru was joking about the Beckmann situation?

Unlike other YC he's just a dude with a gun and he's ready to challenge guys like Kizaru and fight the WG and BB if needed.

 

[Nie Li]

Well, only thing above YC is Yonko...and I just don't see him at that level. I do think Oda has his levels for a reason. But i suppose we'll find out eventually how it all shakes out.

I have said before, in my opinion Shanks is the strongest Yonko. I know they were rivals, but since neither seems to carry any scars, I view it as a friendly rivalry where they just tested one aspect of their strength, their swordsmanship. I think he'd give Shanks a good fight, but I don't think he'd win.

For now I think Mihawk's stronger just because of his title. Otherwise, if Shanks is stronger, than Zoro should have to defeat Shanks instead of Luffy, because the world strongest swordsman title would be void for Zoro if he doesn't defeaat the actual strongest swordsman.

But Mihawk's still to show any feat for me to prove what I think so I can't really argue this topic.

Mihawk and Shanks were definitely friendly as rivals. I love how Shanks just gets him drunk the first time they met on-screen. They have great chemistry despite being of very different personalities.

Did you play the One Piece games for the Wii? In one of them there's a bossfight against Mihawk and Shanks at the same time and the short intro cutscene amazed me back then.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 28, 2020 ---

I mean, do you believe Kizaru was joking about the Beckmann situation?

Unlike other YC he's just a dude with a gun and he's ready to challenge guys like Kizaru and fight the WG and BB if needed.

I put Mihawk above Beckmann and Shanks but Beckmann is definitely one of the most hyped Yonkou Commanders and crazy strong. To start with for the reasons @thedude just said in his post.

Back in the day Oda said in an SBS that Beckmann was the most intelligent character from the East Blue saga. That's a huge praise for a saga with characters like Kuro and Mihawk around.

He's likely to be a great strategist along a very strong YC. And if he was able to make Kizaru remain still by pointing a gun at his head, then he's probably able to shoot haki bullets (they could be kairouseki bullets but so far those are only crafted in Wano and there should be no reason for Kizaru to assume his bullets are made of kairouseki).

Have we ever seen a character shoot or throw haki imbued weapons before? Usually haki only stays on a weapon for as long as the user is holding it.

 

[thedude]

For now I think Mihawk's stronger just because of his title. Otherwise, if Shanks is stronger, than Zoro should have to defeat Shanks instead of Luffy, because the world strongest swordsman title would be void for Zoro if he doesn't defeaat the actual strongest swordsman.

But Mihawk's still to show any feat for me to prove what I think so I can't really argue this topic.

Mihawk and Shanks were definitely friendly as rivals. I love how Shanks just gets him drunk the first time they met on-screen. They have great chemistry despite being of very different personalities.

Did you play the One Piece games for the Wii? In one of them there's a bossfight against Mihawk and Shanks at the same time and the short intro cutscene amazed me back then.

I think that's all wrong. Shanks is a Yonko, the title holds more value than a skill based title. Shanks doesn't go around trying to maintain a title of WSS, so he's irrelevant in the discussion.

I find the debate about WSS a bit pointless. Big Mom uses a sword. She's stronger than Mihawk. She isn't the "WSS". It's a skill title. I think the Yonko have greater strength overall, like Shanks likely has top of the line Haki, and when combined, he is stronger overall.

 

[Ramen]

For now I think Mihawk's stronger just because of his title. Otherwise, if Shanks is stronger, than Zoro should have to defeat Shanks instead of Luffy, because the world strongest swordsman title would be void for Zoro if he doesn't defeaat the actual strongest swordsman.

But Mihawk's still to show any feat for me to prove what I think so I can't really argue this topic.

Mihawk and Shanks were definitely friendly as rivals. I love how Shanks just gets him drunk the first time they met on-screen. They have great chemistry despite being of very different personalities.

Did you play the One Piece games for the Wii? In one of them there's a bossfight against Mihawk and Shanks at the same time and the short intro cutscene amazed me back then.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 28, 2020 ---

I put Mihawk above Beckmann and Shanks but Beckmann is definitely one of the most hyped Yonkou Commanders and crazy strong. To start with for the reasons @thedude just said in his post.

Back in the day Oda said in an SBS that Beckmann was the most intelligent character from the East Blue saga. That's a huge praise for a saga with characters like Kuro and Mihawk around.

He's likely to be a great strategist along a very strong YC. And if he was able to make Kizaru remain still by pointing a gun at his head, then he's probably able to shoot haki bullets (they could be kairouseki bullets but so far those are only crafted in Wano and there should be no reason for Kizaru to assume his bullets are made of kairouseki).

Have we ever seen a character shoot or throw haki imbued weapons before? Usually haki only stays on a weapon for as long as the user is holding it.

See the title thing is iffy. You can be a swordsman but not care about the title. Big Mom is technically a swordsman but she's not actively pursuing that title.

After Shanks became a yonko, it would make sense for him to not care about a friendly rivalry since in the world of OP, Yonko is a more infamous title than WSS.

See I wouldn't be surprised of Beckmann is an actual admiral level character.

 

[thedude]

For now I think Mihawk's stronger just because of his title. Otherwise, if Shanks is stronger, than Zoro should have to defeat Shanks instead of Luffy, because the world strongest swordsman title would be void for Zoro if he doesn't defeaat the actual strongest swordsman.

But Mihawk's still to show any feat for me to prove what I think so I can't really argue this topic.

Mihawk and Shanks were definitely friendly as rivals. I love how Shanks just gets him drunk the first time they met on-screen. They have great chemistry despite being of very different personalities.

Did you play the One Piece games for the Wii? In one of them there's a bossfight against Mihawk and Shanks at the same time and the short intro cutscene amazed me back then.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 28, 2020 ---

I put Mihawk above Beckmann and Shanks but Beckmann is definitely one of the most hyped Yonkou Commanders and crazy strong. To start with for the reasons @thedude just said in his post.

Back in the day Oda said in an SBS that Beckmann was the most intelligent character from the East Blue saga. That's a huge praise for a saga with characters like Kuro and Mihawk around.

He's likely to be a great strategist along a very strong YC. And if he was able to make Kizaru remain still by pointing a gun at his head, then he's probably able to shoot haki bullets (they could be kairouseki bullets but so far those are only crafted in Wano and there should be no reason for Kizaru to assume his bullets are made of kairouseki).

Have we ever seen a character shoot or throw haki imbued weapons before? Usually haki only stays on a weapon for as long as the user is holding it.

The Kuja shot haki arrows.

 

[Ramen]

It would make sense for Shanks to have the best haki out of the Yonko and top 5 in the series. Dude has one arm, no DF and he's competing with people like Kaido.

 

[thedude]

See the title thing is iffy. You can be a swordsman but not care about the title. Big Mom is technically a swordsman but she's not actively pursuing that title.

After Shanks became a yonko, it would make sense for him to not care about a friendly rivalry since in the world of OP, Yonko is a more infamous title than WSS.

See I wouldn't be surprised of Beckmann is an actual admiral level character.

I think Beckmann, Yassop and Lucky are all at or near that level. I think Mihawk is as well. Someone like Sabo isn't far off either.