Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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Ryuusei

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And in comparison to how many days they had when they released? Well, maybe once the week ends might be interesting to see the data.
You mean how many days in the first week, right?
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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Shinuki, let's not kid ourselves. 58th on Day 1 is, and never will be, "good". At least not for a Jump manga.
Come on shinuki, it'll probably do agravity-ish numbers which is still a flop (unless it miracolously holds, which again, unlikely). You can't look at me with a straight face and tell me WSJ is happy with these numbers.
lol no one here knows how Shonen Jump "feels" about it, they're the ones that knew long before us how Moriking would probably perform since they're the ones who decides print, marketing and everything, if the manga was a "flop" it would just be in the back of the magazine for a while with BC and TPG, not getting color page, twitter and stuff. I think you two are jumping the gun too fast with Moriking, Mitama with 3k still survived for a entire year.
 

pamuchi

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You mean how many days in the first week, right?
Yep, I forgot it's days/first week heh. Well at least those who had 6 days/first week.
 

OniluapL

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lol no one here knows how Shonen Jump "feels" about it, they're the ones that knew long before us how Moriking would probably perform since they're the ones who decides print, marketing and everything, if the manga was a "flop" it would just be in the back of the magazine for a while with BC and TPG, not getting color page, twitter and stuff. I think you two are jumping the gun too fast with Moriking, Mitama with 3k still survived for a entire year.
If TPG, which was put at the bottom of the ToC and everything, was in the same position as Moriking, isn't that a bad sign? The series is on the same boat as one that had bad ToC results. Jump can be disappointed in the results as well, maybe they expected more and it didn't pay off.

I don't think the series is necessarily doomed, I might add. Maybe if it sells around what Mitama did first week (it was 5k, iirc?) it can survive one round, and then the question is if can it grow. Mitama did the same or lower in the following volumes, but if Moriking can keep a more-or-less stable growth, maybe it's not dead yet. But it doesn't mean that right now wasn't a bad result.
 

yadayada

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lol no one here knows how Shonen Jump "feels" about it, they're the ones that knew long before us how Moriking would probably perform since they're the ones who decides print, marketing and everything, if the manga was a "flop" it would just be in the back of the magazine for a while with BC and TPG, not getting color page, twitter and stuff. I think you two are jumping the gun too fast with Moriking, Mitama with 3k still survived for a entire year.
Ok, but so what? Mitama lived for a year while being a flop, that fact doesn't change. Just because other stuff needed a quicker axe or veterans ending delayed its death doesn't make it a "success", it makes it a flop that lived longer than it normally would have.

Let's take a closer look at those rankings, shall we?
So, moriking is at #58. What's at #57?

57 9784088823621 左ききのエレン 13 集英社 nifuni 2020.8.4

Ok, so Eren the southpaw volume 13 is above moriking. How did volume 12 and 11 perform on weekly?

Volume 12 - 3days
388 9784088822761 左ききのエレン 12 集英社 nifuni 2020.4.3
300位3800/400位2850

Volume 11 - 2 days
482 9784088821801 左ききのエレン 11 集英社 nifuni 2020.1.4
400位3250/500位2600

See what I mean here? These rankings are not good, it doesn't matter how you spin it.
 

Ryuusei

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Yep, I forgot it's days/first week heh. Well at least those who had 6 days/first week.
7 days - Chainsaw Man
6 days - Mission: Yozakura Family, Mitama Security, Moriking, Time Paradox Ghostwriter, Bone Collection
5 days - Tokyo Shinobi Squad, Double Taisei, Beast Children, Guardian of the Witch
4 days - Gokutei Higuma, ne0;lation, Yui Kamio Lets Loose, The Last Saiyuki, Mashle
3 days - Samurai 8: Hachimaruden, Undead Unluck, Agravity Boys, Zipman
 

Rain Spectre

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lol no one here knows how Shonen Jump "feels" about it, they're the ones that knew long before us how Moriking would probably perform since they're the ones who decides print, marketing and everything, if the manga was a "flop" it would just be in the back of the magazine for a while with BC and TPG, not getting color page, twitter and stuff. I think you two are jumping the gun too fast with Moriking, Mitama with 3k still survived for a entire year.
You seem to think we're just saying this because we Moriking is going to be cancelled soon. We're not. We're saying that, regardless of how long it lasts on technicality, it still remains a failure from a financial perspective that will inevitably be removed once Jump loses interest in it. That's literally all we're saying.
 

Koni

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Look, IMO, this entire recent batch (Moriking, TPGW, BoneColle) has an underwhelming first impression, sales-wise. Still, we need to see how well they can hold on Shoseki, as well as the weekly estimated numbers, before we can start making conclusions. And we probably won't have a definitive idea for where two of the three series will be headed until Volume 2 comes and shows us the difference in sales.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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If TPG, which was put at the bottom of the ToC and everything, was in the same position as Moriking, isn't that a bad sign? The series is on the same boat as one that had bad ToC results. Jump can be disappointed in the results as well, maybe they expected more and it didn't pay off.

I don't think the series is necessarily doomed, I might add. Maybe if it sells around what Mitama did first week (it was 5k, iirc?) it can survive one round, and then the question is if can it grow. Mitama did the same or lower in the following volumes, but if Moriking can keep a more-or-less stable growth, maybe it's not dead yet. But it doesn't mean that right now wasn't a bad result.
That's like asking why Samurai 8 (or many other newbies) despite selling thousands of copies more still got canceled with other series selling much less being in the magazine until now, i think is pretty safe to assume that 1. Jump expectations for X series is different than Y series (specially considering a gag) and 2. Overall reception, TPG reception has been largely mixed to say the least while Moriking is the total opposite.

Also, Moriking starting in certain position, doesn't mean the manga is suddenly unable to grow from that in the next volumes, my point is about jumping the gun calling the series a total failure lol.

Ok, but so what? Mitama lived for a year while being a flop, that fact doesn't change. Just because other stuff needed a quicker axe or veterans ending delayed its death doesn't make it a "success", it makes it a flop that lived longer than it normally would have.

Let's take a closer look at those rankings, shall we?
So, moriking is at #58. What's at #57?

57 9784088823621 左ききのエレン 13 集英社 nifuni 2020.8.4

Ok, so Eren the southpaw volume 13 is above moriking. How did volume 12 and 11 perform on weekly?

Volume 12 - 3days
388 9784088822761 左ききのエレン 12 集英社 nifuni 2020.4.3
300位3800/400位2850

Volume 11 - 2 days
482 9784088821801 左ききのエレン 11 集英社 nifuni 2020.1.4
400位3250/500位2600

See what I mean here? These rankings are not good, it doesn't matter how you spin it.
And when i called a success? i also didn't called Moriking a hit or anything, you're the one jumping the gun, picking a 1 number position on Shoseki, comparing with whatever other series that charted during 3 days and screaming "failure" without knowing anything behind the scenes, how Shonen Jump perceives the series, what they expected and everything, i'm not trying to spin anything, you're the one trying so much to prove that the series is a failure without any real proof so far.

Also, seems like you don't even think the series can actually grow from the first volume lol

You seem to think we're just saying this because we Moriking is going to be cancelled soon. We're not. We're saying that, regardless of how long it lasts on technicality, it still remains a failure from a financial perspective that will inevitably be removed once Jump loses interest in it. That's literally all we're saying.
Nah, i'm just saying you two are getting way ahead of yourselves calling the series a failure without any clear picture of sales numbers or what SJ expects from it.
 

Thundercat27

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Wow, I expect everyone to be salty about TPG, not Moriking.
Moriking is Mitama tier, which is not great. Not to bad either, if rumour of Mitami upcoming demise being truth.
 

MysticCatto

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Yeah, and this shoseki list is without the usual kimetsu wall right? I want to see whether moriking could have penetrated that backlog
 

yadayada

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And when i called a success? i also didn't called Moriking a hit or anything, you're the one jumping the gun, picking a 1 number position on Shoseki, comparing with whatever other series that charted during 3 days and screaming "failure" without knowing anything behind the scenes, how Shonen Jump perceives the series, what they expected and everything, i'm not trying to spin anything, you're the one trying so much to prove that the series is a failure without any real proof so far.

Also, seems like you don't even think the series can actually grow from the first volume lol
My god shinuki, I called the batch a total failure because it is, 3 series out of 3 are flops, how else are you going to call it?

By judging what's around it you can get an expectation of how it'll actually do on weekly, if it debuts below a poor performer what can you expect if not a poor performance? Even if it ends up holding better and does better on weekly the number is not going to be far from it and it's going to be low, unless those series end up having miracolous hold on the chart. If you just say "yeah but let's wait for volume 2 and see if it grows" for everything then nothing is a flop. It did poorly, what other proof do you need when the number is in front of you lol.

I don't know what jump expected but gags still need to sell even if they need to sell less, they're not going to be happy with stuff doing mitama/agravity numbers in WSJ, why we're even having this conversation is beyond me and I'll just drop it because there is no point.
 

savethecat

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In defense of Moriking, a flop is a flop depending on what Jump’s expectations of said series are.

For Exp. If sales of 10K is exactly what Jump expects for a series, and a series sells 10K, then it is a success. Just because enough series might sell 40K first volumes does t necessarily means they have the same benchmark for every series.

We have example of series in Jump, like Zumou, where the sales were relatively low in comparison to other sports series, and it never grew; but despite that it had a 20+ volume full run.

There’s also the fact that Jump(or the industry as a whole at that) doesn’t seem to hold gag series to the same expectations in sales as battle series, sports series, drama series, etc.

The fact that Moriking is looking like it may have a similar debut as Mitama doesn’t bode well, given that Mitama looks like it may be out the door soon.
But I’m almost sure the probably with Mitama wasn’t it’s sales numbers of volume 1, but the fact that it never had the level of growth Jump probably wanted from it.

All in all, I would say it’s too early to refer you Moriking as a flop as
1. We don’t know what Jump expects of the series. Even if Moriking and TPG debuted with the same numbers, TPG would likely be the series that had a bigger sales requirements from them.
2. We don’t know if it’ll grow from here

On top of that, I’m 90% sure the general response to Mitama’s sales first week was “decent for a gag debut”. So I don’t get why ppl are ganging up on calling Moriking a flop now
 

James Rye

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Out of the two, Mori and TPG (as Bones is already dead), I would give PetMori a higher chance of survival than speed of light TPG. Sure its first ranking ain't amazing, but with improvements next time it is close enough to get into top50s at least. And with so many other potential series doing worse behind it (as we still don't know how Magu, Boiled or Roboco gonna rank/sell) it could do a Mitama but with the chance to sell more over time whereas Mitama dropped in sales with each new volume.

As for Mash making topten, not surprised.

As for Yozakura making toptwenty, indeed surprised. Could be the missing Yaiba wall (honestly, that one is messing with all the rankings for the past months) or it has a great growth compared to its first three volumes but in any case best ranking it got so far.

Not really, this is probably only due to Kimetsu no Yaiba's backlog running out of stock, reprints started going out today.
So tomorrow the great Yaiba wall will go up again and we gonna see a massive drop of like 15+ places at the very least for all series?
 

Konja9

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lol no one here knows how Shonen Jump "feels" about it, they're the ones that knew long before us how Moriking would probably perform since they're the ones who decides print, marketing and everything, if the manga was a "flop" it would just be in the back of the magazine for a while with BC and TPG, not getting color page, twitter and stuff. I think you two are jumping the gun too fast with Moriking, Mitama with 3k still survived for a entire year.
Moriking falls to the bottom in the previous TOC.

So, it is always possible the first promotion was a mistake because they originally though the reception was better.
 

RafGL

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Quick impressions:

· Haikyu!!, Jujutsu Kaisen, Chainsaw Man and We Never Learn: Veterans, wouldn't expect any less.

· Mashle and Yozakura: Crazy and deserved at the same time, really happy for both.

· Moriking: It's probably gonna sell low, but so did Spring Weapon Number 1 and shit managed to reach 7 volumes. Wouldn't even be surprised if they end up announcing reprints. Not likely, but so did AGRAVITY BOYS back then and here we are lmao.

· Time Paradox Ghostwriter: Considering how incredibly shit its reception as been, it's already impressive it's on top 100. Gonna depend on its hold, not like I have faith on it. Sad for Date, dude has to be on the verge of dropping manga at this rate.

· Mitama Security: Wonder if it can break its record of selling even less with more days.

· Bone Collection and Guardian of the Witch: XD
 

El Jacco

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Im quite excited to watch the remake, I never have watched the original and only heard of it before via cousins that used to watch it in their childhood. Also, I been quite surprised by the Digimon remake and I hope this new remake can get the same type treatment and care.
 
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