One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[shailks]

Wow......you really do like to downplay lol.

Eventually there will be other Yonkou level captains from this list apart from Luffy, of course. Zoro will become the strongest swordsman without a clear hierarchy in strength/skill like Mihawk and Shanks.

 

[King Moe]

Eventually there will be other Yonkou level captains from this list apart from Luffy, of course. Zoro will become the strongest swordsman without a clear hierarchy in strength/skill like Mihawk and Shanks.

I mean given Mihawk's performance and compare to Yonko and Admirals, don't think it means Zoro be above much. He will achieved his dream, but there still be individuals who will be stronger than him at EOS.

 

[jaymizzo]

Zoro is a top tier so all other alliance fighters are after him.

 

[Ramen]

Zoro is strong. Is he a top tier? No.

Is he equal to or stronger than Luffy? No.

Is one of the weakest Supernova's? Lmao no.


Will he end up soloing Kaido? No.

 

[nik87]

Is that somehow supposed to prove my claim wrong?

Zoro is strong. Is he a top tier? No.

Think about it. It makes complete sense and forget Luffy while power scaling Zoro, he doesnt depend on Luffy.

 

[Ramen]

Is that somehow supposed to prove my claim wrong?


Think about it. It makes complete sense and forget Luffy while power scaling Zoro, he doesnt depend on Luffy.

I didn't say he depends on Luffy. Point being there are dozens of characters far stronger than Zoro and Luffy.

 

[King Moe]

I didn't say he depends on Luffy. Point being there are dozens of characters far stronger than Zoro and Luffy.

More so on Zoro than Luffy as he reaching the gap in keeping up with them as Oda already establish Luffy gap between his crew in power in among them.

 

[nik87]

I didn't say he depends on Luffy. Point being there are dozens of characters far stronger than Zoro and Luffy.

I think Zoro is almost as strong as it gets, only minor improvements left such as black blade and cutting everything including stuff like fire and shit...
Zoro vs Mihawk/Shanks is already at least a high diff fight.

Also, leak from chapter 1020:

 

[Ramen]

I think Zoro is almost as strong as it gets, only minor improvements left such as black blade and cutting everything including stuff like fire and shit...
Zoro vs Mihawk/Shanks is already at least a high diff fight.

Also, leak from chapter 1020:

I disagree. Mihawk and Shanks shouldn't have much difficulty beating Zoro. Zoro hasn't shown the strength to give those 2 trouble.

Zoro has long ways to go before reaching the top.


Yea this whole Zoro vs Kaido thing is wack. Nothing foreshadows it. If Luffy can't beat Kaido on his own, Zoro can't. In the end, I'm not @King Moe. I will not put Hawkins above Zoro.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I disagree. Mihawk and Shanks shouldn't have much difficulty beating Zoro.

Zoro has long ways to go before reaching the top.


Yea this whole Zoro vs Kaido thing is wack. Nothing foreshadows it. If it happens however, touche. In the end, I'm not @King Moe , I don't downplay Zoro.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 14, 2020 ---

Luffy will be the strongest. This has been a thing since the beginning.

Oof, did you just say Zoro v Kaido wasn't foreshadowed?

Didn't you realize Zoro is depicted as a tiger 50 years ago and tigers fight dragons or sum shit?!?!? Hahaha

 

[Ramen]

Oof, did you just say Zoro v Kaido wasn't foreshadowed?

Didn't you realize Zoro is depicted as a tiger 50 years ago and tigers fight dragons or sum shit?!?!? Hahaha

Is this supposed to be some joke or something?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Is this supposed to be some joke or something?

It's a joke but swordbois take it seriously

 

[nik87]

I disagree. Mihawk and Shanks shouldn't have much difficulty beating Zoro.
Zoro has long ways to go before reaching the top.

But think about it. We have Wano, Blackbeard and WG, 3 fights and Zoro needs to become the strongest swordsman in the world.
Zoro walked from Fishman Island to Wano without improving at all, that's already more than half of the New World, maybe 2/3 of it.
Zoro doesnt pull gears as permanent mode to make him several times stronger. He is already clashing with Admiral in base while Luffy needs G3 for it.

Where is the part where Zoro gets "so much stronger" to beat Mihawk and Shanks? In Wano? The only thing he may learn is cutting fire.
Is that making him A LOT stronger? No, if at all. Forging black blade? If it turns out to be just hardness and symbolical crown for the strongest swordsmen in the world that does nothing? Against Shiryu he will probably reuse his old ability, hearing the breath of things since Shiryu will probably clear his aura.

We already have CoA, CoO and Black Blade out of the picture and none of it is actually making him A LOT stronger. The WG fight is where he is supposed to have a grand power-up that will make him strong to beat Mihawk and Shanks? Unlikely, Zoro doesnt work that way. He already has everything he needs to be a top tier and he isnt jumping tiers with gears like Luffy, he is already super strong. The thing people dont realize is that main characters have a long fuse, takes time for them to get serious and go all out.

There is a lot of foreshadowing about Zoro and Kaido but those who are hell-bent on saying No from the start cannot see it, logically. They will have it drawn in front of their eyes, it is not a distant future anymore, in a year or so it should all be concluded.

 

[Ramen]

But think about it. We have Wano, Blackbeard and WG, 3 fights and Zoro needs to becomes the strongest swordsman in the world.
Zoro walked from Fishman Island to Wano without improving at all, that's already more than half of the New World, maybe 2/3 of it.
Zoro doesnt pull gears as permanent mode to make him several times stronger. He is already clashing with Admiral in base while Luffy need G3 for it.

Yes. This could take quite awhile. There could be another time-skip. Him clashing against a Fujitora who was not even taking him serious isn't anything special. Zoro would need to go full out 100% to even try and beat an admiral. Mind you that fight isn't even canon.

Why are you making it seem that Zoro is tiers above Luffy?

When Luffy fought Fujitora, Fuji was more serious (still not serious mind you) than against Zoro.

Where is the part where Zoro gets "so much stronger" to beat Mihawk and Shanks? In Wano? The only thing he may learn is cutting fire.
Is that making him A LOT stronger? No, if at all. Forging black blade? If it turns out to be just hardness and symbolical crown for the strongest swordsmen in the world that does nothing? Against Shiryu he will probably reuse his old ability, hearing the breath of things since Shiryu will probably clear his aura.

He hasn't shown the strength. What noteworthy thing has he done to justify him giving Mihawk or Shanks a high diff fight?

We already have CoA, CoO and Black Blade out of the picture and none of it is actually making him A LOT stronger. The WG fight is where he is supposed to have a grand power-up that will make him strong to beat Mihawk and Shanks? Unlikely, Zoro doesnt work that way. He already has everything he needs to be a top tier and he isnt jumping tiers with gears like Luffy, he is already super strong. The thing people dont realize is that main characters have a long fuse, takes time for them to get serious and go all out.

He isn't a top tier. Top tiers are guys like Akainu and Kaido. Any of them stomp Zoro into the ground. He just needs more power. Simple. He can't beat many people.

There is a lot of foreshadowing about Zoro and Kaido but those who are hell-bent on saying No from the start cannot see it, logically. They will have it drawn in front of their eyes, it is not a distant future anymore, in a year or so it should all be concluded.

This doesn't make any sense but OK.

I don't know why you're so hellbent on proving Zoro is stronger than Luffy (Luffy has better feats and is the captain) and is above mostly everyone.

 

[nik87]

Yes. This could take quite awhile. There could be another time-skip. Him clashing against a Fujitora who was not even taking him serious isn't anything special. Zoro would need to go full out 100% to even try and beat an admiral.
Why are you making it seem that Zoro is tiers above Luffy? When Luffy fought Fujitora, Fuji was serious (still not serious mind you) than against Zoro.

There is no another time skip, Oda wants Luffy to stay in his teens. Even if he didnt want that there is no time for a time-skip, the gears are already rolling, the train is unstoppable and it will only speed up after Wano.
You dont know if Fujitora is taking him serious or not, I can make the same argument for Zoro. Of course he would need to go 100% to beat an Admiral, just like everyone else aside from Kaido, because there is no big gap among top tiers.

Because he is. Thousand times more lethal and effective than Luffy and doesnt have gears which temporarily make him strong. Luffy is border top tier as well but only during Boundman's duration, Snakeman has too many flaws to be top tier and has low AP and paired with low lethality it is a bad gear... If Luffy could step up his lethality 100 times, he would be a top tier too easily but Oda designs his fights completely differently so his lethality will always be low.
When Fujitora fought Luffy his gravity barely pressed the ground while against Zoro it drilled a deep hole. The moment he went serious against Luffy, he was flying away and Zoro wanted to take over.

He hasn't shown the strength. What noteworthy thing has he done to justify him giving Mihawk or Shanks a high diff fight?

That's precisely it, no proof of strength. Just the proof of it is lacking and where could he have shown it so far? Fujitora was obviously not intended to be a conclusive fight and nowhere else could he have demonstrated to be a top tier. What abilities do Mihawk and Shanks have to be so far ahead of Zoro?

He isn't a top tier. Top tiers are guys like Akainu and Kaido. Any of them stomp Zoro into the ground. He just needs more power. Simple.

Kaido "stomps" everyone because he is the strongest character, however, all his fights against any other top tier will be extreme diff fight.
I am sure Zoro at his best, now, could push him to high diff fight too. There is no stomping among top tiers. He doesnt need more power, he hasnt trained physically even once since TS ended. He isnt training at all anymore. The only thing we saw is getting used to Enma, whatever that will result into...
I have said it numerous times, the flaw people have when they power scale Zoro is because they do it through Luffy lenses. They dont work the same.

 

[Ramen]

There is no another time skip, Oda wants Luffy to stay in his teens. Even if he didnt want that there is no time for a time-skip, the gears are already rolling, the train is unstoppable and it will only speed up after Wano.
You dont know if Fujitora is taking him serious or not, I can make the same argument for Zoro. Of course he would need to go 100% to beat an Admiral, just like everyone else aside from Kaido, because there is no big gap among top tiers.

Did Oda say he wants Luffy to stay in his teens? If so then I concede that part of my argument.

I do know since nothing hints to him being serious. Fujitora says he doesn't even know what's going. Then leaves 5 minutes later. Also doesn't help that Stampede isn't canon.

Because he is.

If you genuinely believe he is then there is no point in continuing that discussion any further. You believe so and I don't.

That's precisely it, no proof of strength. Just the proof of it is lacking and where could he have shown it so far? Fujitora was obviously not intended to be a conclusive fight and nowhere else could he have demonstrated to be a top tier. What abilities do Mihawk and Shanks have to be so far ahead of Zoro?

One is the WSS and the other is a Yonko with arguably the best feat of any character right now. Both have established their rep. The burden of proof is not on them, it's on Zoro who's mission is to surpass them.

Kaido "stomps" everyone because he is the strongest character, however, all his fights against any other top tier will be extreme diff fight.
I am sure Zoro at his best, now, could push him to high diff fight too. There is no stomping among top tiers. He doesnt need more power, he hasnt trained physically even once since TS ended. He isnt training at all anymore. The only thing we saw is getting used to Enma, whatever that will result into...
I have said it numerous times, the flaw people have when they power scale Zoro is because they do it through Luffy lenses. They dont work the same.

Extreme diff fights among top tiers. Zoro is not a top tier. Zoro isn't a threat to a Kizaru, Big Mom or Akainu.

Zoro has never shown anything to put him at a top tier.

 

[nik87]

Did Oda say he wants Luffy to stay in his teens? If so then I concede that part of my argument.
I do know since nothing hints to him being serious. Fujitora says he doesn't even know what's going. Then leaves 5 minutes later.

There was some SBS comment, I believe, about why they are so young while all other pirates are much older...
Fujitora wasnt serious, neither was Zoro. Just look what Zoro is doing and you can tell that he is nowhere close to serious.

If you genuinely believe he is then there is no point in continuing that discussion any further. You believe so and I don't.

Fine, just forget Luffy, he isnt relevant to Zoro's power level.

One is the WSS and the other is a Yonko with arguably the best feat of any character right now. Both have established their rep. The burden is not on them, it's on Zoro who's mission is to surpass the,.

Both Mihawk and Shanks are exactly the same type of combatant just like Zoro, straightforward swordsmen.
All Zoro lacks is proof of his strength and nowhere else until Wano could he have possibly demonstrated it because there was no other top tier to fight.

Extreme diff fights among top tiers. Zoro is not a top tier. Zoro isn't a threat to a Kizaru, Big Mom or Akainu.

Why isnt Zoro a threat to them? One clean slice is all that separates those characters from being killed by Zoro.

 

[Ramen]

There was some SBS comment, I believe, about why they are so young while all other pirates are much older...
Fujitora wasnt serious, neither was Zoro. Just look what Zoro is doing and you can tell that he is nowhere close to serious.

Can you post that comment?
An admiral being serious is different to Zoro. We know what Admirals are capable of.

Both Mihawk and Shanks are exactly the same type of combatant just like Zoro, straightforward swordsmen.
All Zoro lacks is proof of his strength and nowhere else until Wano could he have possibly demonstrated it because there was no other top tier to fight.

Yes he lacks proof. We know he will end up surpassing them but as of right now he hasn't shown anything that proves so. Again, the burden of proof isn't on the former, it's on the latter.

Why isnt Zoro a threat to them? One clean slice is all that separates those characters from being killed by Zoro.

Given Akainu tanked WB strongest attack then shrugged it off one chapter later. He wouldn't be able to even catch Kizaru and Kiazru has more AP than Zoro does. Big Mom is a physical beast. Her haki is some of the best we've seen in the entire series. Gear 4 Luffy can't even scratch her.

Someone like Aokiji fought Akainu for 10 days straight. Akainu had a more powerful logia and an elemental advantage. The durability between Zoro and someone like Akainu is night and day.

 

[nik87]

Can you post that comment?
An admiral being serious is different to Zoro. We know what Admirals are capable of.

If I find a source I will, I asked around so if anyone finds it for me I'll link it.
Yes, we know what Admirals are capable of and Zoro will be capable of more and there aint much time left and he isnt pulling gears which make him stronger.

Yes he lacks proof. We know he will end up surpassing them but as of right now he hasn't shown anything that proves so. Again, the burden of proof isn't on the former, it's on the latter.

Neither has he shown that he isnt capable of it, there simply was no such opportunity.
I know where the burden of proof is, once we got the proof, I dont need to guess anymore.
The point here is to guess it right ahead of time.

Given Akainu tanked WB strongest attack then shrugged it off one chapter later. He wouldn't be able to even catch Kizaru and Kiazru has more AP than Zoro does. Big Mom is a physical beast. Her haki is some of the best we've seen in the entire series. Gear 4 Luffy can't even scratch her.

Someone like Aokiji fought Akainu for 10 days straight. Akainu had a more powerful logia and an elemental advantage. The durability between Zoro and someone like Akainu is night and day.

Well, Akainu didnt tank WB's strongest attack, WB dropped his weapon when going after Akainu, a weapon that is incomparably more lethal than a punch.
Rayleigh in his old age and decades of inactivity caught Kizaru just fine and if I am right, Zoro and Kizaru will fight, the payback for Sabaody.
Kizaru's AP actually seems low compared to Zoro's. Does Kizary have anything to blow up stone mountain like Zoro did? Zoro is a physical beast too, we might actually see him against Big Mom in Wano. Zoro's haki needs to be better than hers when he forges the black blade. Luffy couldnt scratch Kaido either, Scabbards didnt have the same problem and Zoro is not the same tier of a beast like Scabbards, he is much higher.

Akainu and Aokiji was extreme diff, regardless of its duration. The durability? As long as Zoro blocks with his swords, his durability is impeccable. He actually has a weapon between his body and the attack while Akainu takes it with his body, even tho his DF allows his body to act kinda like a weapon but still, if it isnt inflated magma fist, it's still his body.

 

[Ramen]

If I find a source I will, I asked around so if anyone finds it for me I'll link it.
Yes, we know what Admirals are capable of and Zoro will be capable of more and there aint much time left and he isnt pulling gears which make him stronger.

Neither has he shown that he isnt capable of it, there simply was no such opportunity.
I know where the burden of proof is, once we got the proof, I dont need to guess anymore.
The point here is to guess it right ahead of time.

Well, Akainu didnt tank WB's strongest attack, WB dropped his weapon when going after Akainu, a weapon that is incomparably more lethal than a punch.
Rayleigh in his old age and decades of inactivity caught Kizaru just fine and if I am right, Zoro and Kizaru will fight, the payback for Sabaody.
Kizaru's AP actually seems low compared to Zoro's. Does Kizary have anything to blow up stone mountain like Zoro did? Zoro is a physical beast too, we might actually see him against Big Mom in Wano. Zoro's haki needs to be better than hers when he forges the black blade. Luffy couldnt scratch Kaido either, Scabbards didnt have the same problem and Zoro is not the same tier of a beast like Scabbards, he is much higher.

Akainu and Aokiji was extreme diff, regardless of its duration. The durability? As long as Zoro blocks with his swords, his durability is impeccable. He actually has a weapon between his body and the attack while Akainu takes it with his body, even tho his DF allows his body to act kinda like a weapon but still, if it isnt inflated magma fist, it's still his body.

I will write a response later. Kinda busy at the moment.