Discussion Luffy Discussion Thread

[Nie Li]

thank you for the concern. I actually have been trying to make this about luffy, that's why i put emphasis on the tag team battle for luffy. But it seems moe was set on bashing zoro, so i guess i would just be the bigger man and ignore this chain discussion.

anyway, i still don't see luffy 1v1 kaido unless he finds new tricks or get helps, since i don't see how haki-depleted luffy would be able to outrun a dragon in an open area (castle roof top)

I agree. Haki will not defeat Kaido in a single G4 rush. No matter how stronger advanced emission CoA makes Luffy, finishing Kaido off so easily would make the strongest creature on Earth a joke, unless, of course, Kaido is already half dead from other characters but I don't think the damage Kaido will get from the rest will be so severe and but a little handicap.

There's also the possibility that Luffy has evolved G4 in such a way that he has overcome his temporary loss of haki, but as others pointed out on this thread, he's been focusing so much on improving his haki that he has had no time to work on his gears since he last went G4 against Kaido.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

I agree. Haki will not defeat Kaido in a single G4 rush. No matter how stronger advanced emission CoA makes Luffy, finishing Kaido off so easily would make the strongest creature on Earth a joke, unless, of course, Kaido is already half dead from other characters but I don't think the damage Kaido will get from the rest will be so severe and but a little handicap.

There's also the possibility that Luffy has evolved G4 in such a way that he has overcome his temporary loss of haki, but as others pointed out on this thread, he's been focusing so much on improving his haki that he has had no time to work on his gears since he last went G4 against Kaido.

yeah i actually would like to see luffy improved G4 or even got awakening. That's actually also another scenario that I like.

But what we only know for now is that luffy only improved his CoA, and that's why i think luffy would need assistances for when he ran out of haki, which i think would be zoro's role here.

 

[King Moe]

nah you just accused me. I am just saying the cover hyped zoro. That's all. No need to be so bitter about it.

Momo cannot fight yet, while zoro is clearly a fighter. Different case.
Luffy learnt advanced CoA to hurt kaido, but doesn't mean it's guaranteed he would fight alone.
I mean, you also said that the supernova captains would fight kaido, but now you said "Why learn Adv,. COA just to give to someone else?" , then why did you say the supernova capt would fight kaido? Why do you say "oda wants luffy to prove himself in his quest to be PK" if he's getting help from supernova capt? You just backpedal your arguments here

Not saying that kaido will be zoro's only fight. He might beat queen/orochi, then go after kaido too and will be in time to cover luffy against kaido when luffy ran out of haki.

Nah, it not going to happen just with cover page as they don't work like that as proof. Luffy is main one to Kaido's defeat, not Zoro.

Nah, same case as both swords harm him, neither were stated to be important over the other, so Momo will get chance in this if you want insert swords will be involve in this. You can't pick one of them and the other don't especially it doesn't imply he fight Kaido out of it.

Of course, but it's not with Zoro, it be Supernova Captains and Scabbards fighting in the fight, Zoro isn't needed if you already got stronger forces there to fight with together while Zoro be busy with his own problems and he is going to fight YC lvl opponent and somehow make it to Kaido? Nah he going to be heavily hurt after the fight and won't participate as he isn't Luffy who even him needed a break before facing another YC lvl opponent himself.

Zoro is unneeded if we already have many strong forces fighting Kaido already who can get job done better than him.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 22, 2020 ---

This and Sanji's threads have become stagnant as hell today.

There's a chance that Zoro will fight Kaido (not defeat; fight) or just a Calamity like King. Or perhaps one thing after the other, who knows. There's a chance slightly foreshadowed from Enma's legacy and Zoro's still blurry connection to Wano.

There's also a chance that it won't happen, but "that not being how it usually goes in past arcs" shouldn't be a point made by the man who earlier this month was arguing that "Sanji can fight Shiryu because even if that is not the norm of who is usually his main opponent it can change now".


@Grandmaster Woro @King Moe You won't reach a standing, and you both know what the other thinks, so just drop it and move on unless you want to go at it for days. This is a Luffy thread so rather than discuss if it will be Zoro who will help him against Kaido, let's talk more generically: You both agree that Luffy will tag team Kaido (with whoever) or does any of you believe that after the scabbards get defeated by Kaido up there Luffy will somehow 1vs1 him all alone?

That's fine on moving on then as let's do that and also I get change, but Oda won't push someone in crew doing better over Luffy in facing Main Antagonists as it wrecks dynamic he is going for and he always want to push Luffy is strongest of the crew, not someone from his crew over him in facing his Main Antagonists when it comes to the Major Fights.

 

[goldb]

That's fine on moving on then as let's do that and also I get change, but Oda won't push someone in crew doing better over Luffy in facing Main Antagonists as it wrecks dynamic he is going for and he always want to push Luffy is strongest of the crew, not someone from his crew over him in facing his Main Antagonists when it comes to the Major Fights.

Zoro having a crack at Kaido is a possibility beyond anything the magazine covers may try to promote. Why is it hard for you to accept that?

That particular cover was to promote Zoro and Luffy seeing each other again during their encounter against Hawkins when Luffy had the Nidai Kitetsu.

Luffy will most certainly have help in defeating Kaido, which is likely to include Zoro (because as many have continuously noted, he has Oden's sword which previous to the Scabbards, was the only known weapon to wound him), Law (it's part of the agreement of the original alliance of Heart Pirates x SH) , Kid ( revenge for his initial defeat, imprisonement and torture of Killer) and the Scabbards (who are already coming to fight Kaido). Luffy alone even with all he's learnt won't be enough to take on someone of Kaido's calibre unless Oda pulls a large one out of his arse and that would frankly ruin this battle.

This doesn't mean Zoro will get the finishing blow, it doesn't mean anyone else other than Luffy will. Luffy will still remain the strongest, he'll get the glory and no dynamic will be wrecked.

Jesus...

 

[jaymizzo]

Discussing Zoro in the Luffy discussion thread

 

[King Moe]

Zoro having a crack at Kaido is a possibility beyond anything the magazine covers may try to promote. Why is it hard for you to accept that?

That particular cover was to promote Zoro and Luffy seeing each other again during their encounter against Hawkins when Luffy had the Nidai Kitetsu.

Luffy will most certainly have help in defeating Kaido, which is likely to include Zoro (because as many have continuously noted, he has Oden's sword which previous to the Scabbards, was the only known weapon to wound him), Law (it's part of the agreement of the original alliance of Heart Pirates x SH) , Kid ( revenge for his initial defeat, imprisonement and torture of Killer) and the Scabbards (who are already coming to fight Kaido). Luffy alone even with all he's learnt won't be enough to take on someone of Kaido's calibre unless Oda pulls a large one out of his arse and that would frankly ruin this battle.

This doesn't mean Zoro will get the finishing blow, it doesn't mean anyone else other than Luffy will. Luffy will still remain the strongest, he'll get the glory and no dynamic will be wrecked.

Jesus...

We see many times of Strawhats being in cover with Main Antagonists before, but doesn't mean it have them face them like Robin and Lucci covers for example, but not the case. It's not by how I feel, it's how Oda is in why he push Luffy as the MC to face Main Antagonists for each arc. Why will he give someone from his crew to seriously harmed Kaido over him and what be the point of him learning Adv. COA if that along with potential new G4 Form and attacks won't be enough? Oda like keeping the dynamic on Luffy being strongest of the crew, so he doesn't let anyone outshine him in his fights not just in outside of the crew, but inside of the crew too. Why would it change when Zoro after multiple arcs never got involve to help out Luffy with his Main Antagonists and fight his own battles? Even when he was active around, Zoro refuse to step in to help Luffy when he trust and knows he can handle it.

Just saying from what we seen from 20+ years, why should I not believe that over why Zoro will 'somehow' not got fodderize if he face Kaido head-on? I get spotlight for Zoro, but looking at his performance in Wano, he won't be the one to seriously hurt him nor get involve given many enemies around there.

Oden was the one who wound him, not sword itself as it takes the skill and doubt Zoro will surpassed former Roger Pirate and Whitebeard Pirate member in just one arc when we still have future arcs we have to see and future fights later for development be gradual for Strawhats process to surpass them all. If we going to use him having Enma to face him, then involve Momo with Ame since he stated he wants to get back at Kaido too in the fight. We shouldn't push it as 'canon' if not enough evidence to force it will happen. Got keep different possibilities to be than one with lesser evidence around about it.

Just saying about it respectfully on how we seen how Main Antagonists are handle. It will not take anything away from Zoro if he doesn't face him when Luffy vs Kaido been build heavily about building up for an long awhile now.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 22, 2020 ---

Discussing Zoro in the Luffy discussion thread

Ikr? I just want talk about Luffy and his Gears with potential new power and yet somehow Zoro have to be included in the talk of another's character's power .

 

[Nie Li]

We see many times of Strawhats being in cover with Main Antagonists before, but doesn't mean it have them face them like Robin and Lucci covers for example, but not the case. It's not by how I feel, it's how Oda is in why he push Luffy as the MC to face Main Antagonists for each arc. Why will he give someone from his crew to seriously harmed Kaido over him and what be the point of him learning Adv. COA if that along with potential new G4 Form and attacks won't be enough? Oda like keeping the dynamic on Luffy being strongest of the crew, so he doesn't let anyone outshine him in his fights not just in outside of the crew, but inside of the crew too. Why would it change when Zoro after multiple arcs never got involve to help out Luffy with his Main Antagonists and fight his own battles? Even when he was active around, Zoro refuse to step in to help Luffy when he trust and knows he can handle it.

Just saying from what we seen from 20+ years, why should I not believe that over why Zoro will 'somehow' not got fodderize if he face Kaido head-on? I get spotlight for Zoro, but looking at his performance in Wano, he won't be the one to seriously hurt him nor get involve given many enemies around there.

Oden was the one who wound him, not sword itself as it takes the skill and doubt Zoro will surpassed former Roger Pirate and Whitebeard Pirate member in just one arc when we still have future arcs we have to see and future fights later for development be gradual for Strawhats process to surpass them all. If we going to use him having Enma to face him, then involve Momo with Ame since he stated he wants to get back at Kaido too in the fight. We shouldn't push it as 'canon' if not enough evidence to force it will happen. Got keep different possibilities to be than one with lesser evidence around about it.

Just saying about it respectfully on how we seen how Main Antagonists are handle. It will not take anything away from Zoro if he doesn't face him when Luffy vs Kaido been build heavily about building up for an long awhile now.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 22, 2020 ---

Ikr? I just want talk about Luffy and his Gears with potential new power and yet somehow Zoro have to be included in the talk of another's character's power .

Your whole point is bunked by Luffy telling Zoro to hop onto his gomu gomu no rocket to go beat Kaido up together two chapters ago. Clearly Luffy doesn't mind Zoro or whoever else helping against Kaido, he's not looking for a 1vs1, and Zoro isn't nice enough to just step away unless he's stopped by other strong pirates. Both Luffy and Zoro are willing to gang up on Kaido.

Nobody said it's canon that it will happen. Nobody said Zoro will take away Luffy's spotlight. The whole thing that you're arguing against is that it "can" happen and that it's been sightly hinted that (Which, again, doesn't mean it will necessarily happen, but it can).

What's unlikely to happen is that Luffy will take Kaido down all alone (the ending of the fight might turn into a 1vs1, but the fight shouldn't start like that, and the scabbards have already started to wear down Kaido a bit for him), so even if Zoro doesn't help, the scabbards and at least Law, if not also Kid, will. Luffy needs his new haki to even deal damage to Kaido, but having the ability to at least punch him doesn't mean he can solo that beast.

 

[King Moe]

Your whole point is bunked by Luffy telling Zoro to hop onto his gomu gomu no rocket to go beat Kaido up together two chapters ago. Clearly Luffy doesn't mind Zoro or whoever else helping against Kaido, he's not looking for a 1vs1, and Zoro isn't nice enough to just step away unless he's stopped by other strong pirates. Both Luffy and Zoro are willing to gang up on Kaido.

Nobody said it's canon that it will happen. Nobody said Zoro will take away Luffy's spotlight. The whole thing that you're arguing against is that it "can" happen and that it's been sightly hinted that (Which, again, doesn't mean it will necessarily happen, but it can).

What's unlikely to happen is that Luffy will take Kaido down all alone (the ending of the fight might turn into a 1vs1, but the fight shouldn't start like that, and the scabbards have already started to wear down Kaido a bit for him), so even if Zoro doesn't help, the scabbards and at least Law, if not also Kid, will. Luffy needs his new haki to even deal damage to Kaido, but having the ability to at least punch him doesn't mean he can solo that beast.

There are still enemies around Kaido, so Zoro could be helping to clear the way there and we seen Zoro not participating willing even when active like Crocodile, Lucci, Moria, etc., so just because he is around doesn't mean he will face Luffy's enemies for him as we know Oda doesn't push that factor and wants Luffy be more the one to take on the Main Antagonists from his side.

If so, then don't push it like it be canon it will happen there is more possibility on that it won't than it will. Just stating that, so don't take issue when we seen 20+ years of how arcs goes with Main Antagonists. Not saying this for fun or kicks, but from someone of fan who read 1st Chapter of OP and seen events been.

I know that is fine on them helping out as Oda doesn't mind outside help that aren't his crew, but won't push the crew to fight his own battles with Main Antagonists when it's time for him to deal with them himself is all I am saying. Zoro will get his spotlight, but not with facing Luffy's Main Opponent. There are many potential people who can give shine to Zoro than just Kaido as we see hints on him facing Queen more on how it looks or Orochi (From how it's hinted he could come back) if his DF powers are like the lore and he can comeback stronger. Keep possibility out for likely to happen than less likely.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy and Zoro are areguably the 2 closest strawhats, why would Luffy ever have an issue with Zoro joining him in a fight unless Luffy expressed otherwise?

The biggest problem would be getting caught up in a higher level of fight that he isn't used to and get hit by collateral damage, but if he keeps his distance from Kaido and sends flying slashes... then it is a recipe for success.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

just stop moe, this topic is about luffy, not zoro. Bring this discussion to zoro thread, if you want, but just stop this.

 

[Nie Li]

There are still enemies around Kaido, so Zoro could be helping to clear the way there and we seen Zoro not participating willing even when active like Crocodile, Lucci, Moria, etc., so just because he is around doesn't mean he will face Luffy's enemies for him as we know Oda doesn't push that factor and wants Luffy be more the one to take on the Main Antagonists from his side.

If so, then don't push it like it be canon it will happen there is more possibility on that it won't than it will. Just stating that, so don't take issue when we seen 20+ years of how arcs goes with Main Antagonists. Not saying this for fun or kicks, but from someone of fan who read 1st Chapter of OP and seen events been.

I know that is fine on them helping out as Oda doesn't mind outside help that aren't his crew, but won't push the crew to fight his own battles with Main Antagonists when it's time for him to deal with them himself is all I am saying. Zoro will get his spotlight, but not with facing Luffy's Main Opponent. There are many potential people who can give shine to Zoro than just Kaido as we see hints on him facing Queen more on how it looks or Orochi (From how it's hinted he could come back) if his DF powers are like the lore and he can comeback stronger. Keep possibility out for likely to happen than less likely.

I will only answer the bolded out part.

You're telling me to not push something like it's canon, but in the post you're answering to I made a strong emphasis in that nobody said it's canon or that it will happen for sure.

We all know there are other possibilities. For the last time, the only thing people have told you is that there is a strong possibility that particular thing (Zoro helping somewhere in the fight) will happen, since Luffy will have help from other people either way, even if it's not from Zoro (that's a fact, since the Scabbards are already helping since they're the ones who have started the fight with Kaido, and not Luffy).

For a fan who read One Piece from the first chapter and has seen how events have been, you're strongly opposed to "the status quo of the arcs changing when it would somewhat benefit Zoro" (and we aren't even talking about Zoro defeating Kaido. We are talking about Luffy defeating Kaido either way and nobody outshining him) but you've also proven yourself to be a strong supporter of "status quo can change if it benefits Sanji".

"Luffy will always fight the strongest enemy (nobody argued against that, we all agree) because he always has", and the thought that Zoro would even aid Luffy a bit against the main enemy for once offends you. On the other hand, despite "Zoro always fighting the second overall strongest", the thought of that changing and Sanji kicking stronger opponents is strongly supported by you,

One cannot easily debate against such bias.


Either way, I tried to slightly change the topic before and I asked a question that you didn't answer. I ask again:

Do you believe, after the scabbards are defeated by Kaido, that Luffy will solo Kaido and will get no help from no one? That he will get a pure 1vs1? If you believe that, then you have high hopes for Luffy, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, but if your answer is "no", then who do you believe will help him? And why them and not possibly Zoro? You're so vehemently opposed that the question is a must.

 

[goldb]

We see many times of Strawhats being in cover with Main Antagonists before, but doesn't mean it have them face them like Robin and Lucci covers for example, but not the case. It's not by how I feel, it's how Oda is in why he push Luffy as the MC to face Main Antagonists for each arc. Why will he give someone from his crew to seriously harmed Kaido over him and what be the point of him learning Adv. COA if that along with potential new G4 Form and attacks won't be enough? Oda like keeping the dynamic on Luffy being strongest of the crew, so he doesn't let anyone outshine him in his fights not just in outside of the crew, but inside of the crew too. Why would it change when Zoro after multiple arcs never got involve to help out Luffy with his Main Antagonists and fight his own battles? Even when he was active around, Zoro refuse to step in to help Luffy when he trust and knows he can handle it.

Moe, did you read my post before replying? I'll quote it again, just to make sure:

Zoro having a crack at Kaido is a possibility beyond anything the magazine covers may try to promote. Why is it hard for you to accept that?

That particular cover was to promote Zoro and Luffy seeing each other again during their encounter against Hawkins when Luffy had the Nidai Kitetsu.

Luffy will most certainly have help in defeating Kaido, which is likely to include Zoro (because as many have continuously noted, he has Oden's sword which previous to the Scabbards, was the only known weapon to wound him), Law (it's part of the agreement of the original alliance of Heart Pirates x SH) , Kid ( revenge for his initial defeat, imprisonement and torture of Killer) and the Scabbards (who are already coming to fight Kaido). Luffy alone even with all he's learnt won't be enough to take on someone of Kaido's calibre unless Oda pulls a large one out of his arse and that would frankly ruin this battle.

This doesn't mean Zoro will get the finishing blow, it doesn't mean anyone else other than Luffy will. Luffy will still remain the strongest, he'll get the glory and no dynamic will be wrecked.

Jesus...

See the first part is where I mention that the magazine doesn't really mean anything and it wasn't foreshadowing Zoro v Kaido but instead his meeting Luffy? Cool? cool.

Next the bold part; I'm glad you at least recognise Zoro's ability to seriously harm Kaido.

Now to answer your question, the reason there's a possibility of Zoro helping Luffy in this fight is because even with Luffy's gears and his advanced CoA, he will still need help. Look my quoted post above, noone is saying Luffy won't face and defeat Kaido or be his main opponent but he will most certainly have help, if that help turns out to be members of his crew, why would he not want it? he knows Zoro is strong and was prepared to take him to the dome with him (as pointed out by Moegara). If he didn't want him to help, wouldn't he have told Zoro to stay behind and help the rest of the crew if he was concerned? Also there is precedence for Zoro fighting the same enemy as Luffy in multiple arcs, I don't even know why this is important but you brought it up : Morgan, Buggy, Arlong (together with Sanji), Enel, Hody Jones (actually defeated him before his crew fed him a shit-ton of pills).

Next you mention Oda wanting to keep Luffy being the strongest in the crew, for my answer, see my quoted post above.

Just saying from what we seen from 20+ years, why should I not believe that over why Zoro will 'somehow' not got fodderize if he face Kaido head-on? I get spotlight for Zoro, but looking at his performance in Wano, he won't be the one to seriously hurt him nor get involve given many enemies around there.

That's a good question you bring up Moe, maybe he WILL get fodderised if he jumps in to help Luffy. That's a real possibility and we will get an answer to that once that encounter happens.

Just saying about it respectfully on how we seen how Main Antagonists are handle. It will not take anything away from Zoro if he doesn't face him when Luffy vs Kaido been build heavily about building up for an long awhile now.

That's very true, Zoro is a strong enough character to have his spotlight moments even outside of supporting Luffy and the others against Kaido, you're right.

 

[King Moe]

Luffy and Zoro are areguably the 2 closest strawhats, why would Luffy ever have an issue with Zoro joining him in a fight unless Luffy expressed otherwise?

The biggest problem would be getting caught up in a higher level of fight that he isn't used to and get hit by collateral damage, but if he keeps his distance from Kaido and sends flying slashes... then it is a recipe for success.

Zoro though don't really do anything to Luffy's opponents if he want to be the one to do major damage and defeat them as we seen this many times that even when he is active, he doesn't go to where Luffy fights to join and either wait or watch him fight as he respect his own Captain's fights. Just saying we seen this many times on how Oda does with crew dynamic in them trusting Luffy in finishing his own main battles without him.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 23, 2020 ---

I will only answer the bolded out part.

You're telling me to not push something like it's canon, but in the post you're answering to I made a strong emphasis in that nobody said it's canon or that it will happen for sure.

We all know there are other possibilities. For the last time, the only thing people have told you is that there is a strong possibility that particular thing (Zoro helping somewhere in the fight) will happen, since Luffy will have help from other people either way, even if it's not from Zoro (that's a fact, since the Scabbards are already helping since they're the ones who have started the fight with Kaido, and not Luffy).

For a fan who read One Piece from the first chapter and has seen how events have been, you're strongly opposed to "the status quo of the arcs changing when it would somewhat benefit Zoro" (and we aren't even talking about Zoro defeating Kaido. We are talking about Luffy defeating Kaido either way and nobody outshining him) but you've also proven yourself to be a strong supporter of "status quo can change if it benefits Sanji".

"Luffy will always fight the strongest enemy (nobody argued against that, we all agree) because he always has", and the thought that Zoro would even aid Luffy a bit against the main enemy for once offends you. On the other hand, despite "Zoro always fighting the second overall strongest", the thought of that changing and Sanji kicking stronger opponents is strongly supported by you,

One cannot easily debate against such bias.


Either way, I tried to slightly change the topic before and I asked a question that you didn't answer. I ask again:

Do you believe, after the scabbards are defeated by Kaido, that Luffy will solo Kaido and will get no help from no one? That he will get a pure 1vs1? If you believe that, then you have high hopes for Luffy, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, but if your answer is "no", then who do you believe will help him? And why them and not possibly Zoro? You're so vehemently opposed that the question is a must.

Again your bringing Sanji into an conversation when we talking about Luffy and Zoro on them. Never state anything on Sanji fighting Luffy's battles no do I see him facing final boss for Luffy. Idk where you think I change my mind if it was Sanji in same position. I see it on everyone, not just Zoro to not help Luffy facing his Major Antagonists fights. Nothing to do with biased, it's called 20+ years of being a fan and seeing how Luffy fights been in every Main Antagonist arc. Only biased I see is that you wanting to push Zoro into being involve when there more proof he doesn't get involve in Luffy's Major fights like that than him getting to be involve in them. Please let's take this to be S vs Z thing your trying to push as never even thought on idea of Sanji vs Kaido to be a thing unlike how you feeling like somehow Zoro can do it despite his performance shown in him struggling with opponents beyond weaker than Kaido and lose in dominance with them.

As for your question, Nah I don't see it only be Luffy fighting him as there be others. That's why he hyping outside of his crew allies to get involve like Scabbards, Supernovas like Kidd and Law, and so on. Though he won't let anyone in his crew to outshine Luffy when he facing his own Major Opponent like Kaido himself. Zoro is being pushed for another direction for his character on who he be facing and it's not to Kaido he be after. It got nothing to do with about how I feel, but just how Oda works the fight for when Luffy face an Main Antagonist each arc. Zoro shown many times not to get involve in the fights for Luffy when facing them, so why would he do so now when he knows Luffy wants to be one to face him and defeat him? I don't think that is changing, but doesn't mean if it doesn't happen for Zoro, he won't have spotlight facing someone else now.

Shouldn't take it seriously on him needing to face Kaido when he got many options on ho can give him a Major fight instead after all.

 

[Nie Li]

Zoro though don't really do anything to Luffy's opponents if he want to be the one to do major damage and defeat them as we seen this many times that even when he is active, he doesn't go to where Luffy fights to join and either wait or watch him fight as he respect his own Captain's fights. Just saying we seen this many times on how Oda does with crew dynamic in them trusting Luffy in finishing his own main battles without him.

What you're saying here contradicts Zoro and Luffy both willing to tag team on Kaido two chapters ago. Plotwise, just like there's no problem in Law and the scabbards helping, there's no problem with Zoro helping.

You say that "you are against us forcing Zoro's help against Kaido as canon, and you just want to be open to other possibilities" but that is not what you're doing, you're actively trying to deny this is a possibility.

Can you give any example of Zoro or Sanji waiting with his arms crossed willingly letting Luffy enjoy his fight without butting in?

When you were debating who Zoro and Sanji would fight this arc you brought out Zoro vs Hody as an example of Zoro not always fighting the second strongest. Yet somehow, at the same time, for you it doesn't serve as an example of Zoro taking on the strongest.

Again your bringing Sanji into an conversation when we talking about Luffy and Zoro on them. Never state anything on Sanji fighting Luffy's battles no do I see him facing final boss for Luffy. Idk where you think I change my mind if it was Sanji in same position. I see it on everyone, not just Zoro to not help Luffy facing his Major Antagonists fights. Nothing to do with biased, it's called 20+ years of being a fan and seeing how Luffy fights been in every Main Antagonist arc. Only biased I see is that you wanting to push Zoro into being involve when there more proof he doesn't get involve in Luffy's Major fights like that than him getting to be involve in them. Please let's take this to be S vs Z thing your trying to push as never even thought on idea of Sanji vs Kaido to be a thing unlike how you feeling like somehow Zoro can do it despite his performance shown in him struggling with opponents beyond weaker than Kaido and lose in dominance with them.

I didn't bring Sanji in. What I did was calling out your hypocrisy on how you treat these topics. So since this paragraph doesn't really follow the things you're quoting, I'll ignore it, just like you ignored what was actually said to you.

As for your question, Nah I don't see it only be Luffy fighting him as there be others. That's why he hyping outside of his crew allies to get involve like Scabbards, Supernovas like Kidd and Law, and so on. Though he won't let anyone in his crew to outshine Luffy when he facing his own Major Opponent like Kaido himself. Zoro is being pushed for another direction for his character on who he be facing and it's not to Kaido he be after. It got nothing to do with about how I feel, but just how Oda works the fight for when Luffy face an Main Antagonist each arc. Zoro shown many times not to get involve in the fights for Luffy when facing them, so why would he do so now when he knows Luffy wants to be one to face him and defeat him? I don't think that is changing, but doesn't mean if it doesn't happen for Zoro, he won't have spotlight facing someone else now.

If I go with what I bolded out, then you should be supporting Zoro vs King and Sanji vs Queen, but you're not, because as you say, "those things change".

I could say other things about this paragraph, but I already said them all on the first part of this post. What you're failing to realize is that just like the scabbards, Law and Kid will not outshine Luffy in his fight with Kaido, nobody thinks Zoro will do so either, and that Zoro helps (or doesn't help) somehow through the middle of the fight doesn't mean Zoro will not fight anyone else for good, before or after trying to help Luffy.

Shouldn't take it seriously on him needing to face Kaido when he got many options on ho can give him a Major fight instead after all.

Shouldn't take it seriously on him helping with Kaido's fight.

 

[King Moe]

What you're saying here contradicts Zoro and Luffy both willing to tag team on Kaido two chapters ago. Plotwise, just like there's no problem in Law and the scabbards helping, there's no problem with Zoro helping.

You say that "you are against us forcing Zoro's help against Kaido as canon, and you just want to be open to other possibilities" but that is not what you're doing, you're actively trying to deny this is a possibility.

Can you give any example of Zoro or Sanji waiting with his arms crossed willingly letting Luffy enjoy his fight without butting in?

When you were debating who Zoro and Sanji would fight this arc you brought out Zoro vs Hody as an example of Zoro not always fighting the second strongest. Yet somehow, at the same time, for you it doesn't serve as an example of Zoro taking on the strongest.


I didn't bring Sanji in. What I did was calling out your hypocrisy on how you treat these topics. So since this paragraph doesn't really follow the things you're quoting, I'll ignore it, just like you ignored what was actually said to you.


If I go with what I bolded out, then you should be supporting Zoro vs King and Sanji vs Queen, but you're not, because as you say, "those things change".

I could say other things about this paragraph, but I already said them all on the first part of this post. What you're failing to realize is that just like the scabbards, Law and Kid will not outshine Luffy in his fight with Kaido, nobody thinks Zoro will do so either, and that Zoro helps (or doesn't help) somehow through the middle of the fight doesn't mean Zoro will not fight anyone else for good, before or after trying to help Luffy.


Shouldn't take it seriously on him helping with Kaido's fight.

He also stated feel like fighting or implied to want to face Doflamingo and last time we saw him he decided not to go over there and stop try Birdcage instead and push his faith in Luffy than want to face him. Him stating desire or implying doesn't mean it come as Oda wants Luffy to be one to be major damage and lead to Main Antagonist defeat on their side.

'Possibility' like past 20+ years of him not facing any not being involve of Luffy's Major Opponents for Luffy? Yeah I take years of what I learn over fanboyism who want to push that.

They did just that when he was facing Moria by himself. They waited and crossed their arms just like you stated, so why should I see 'difference' on it not being the same or enemies around them they won't fight off like how with Enies Lobby after they finished their respective Main Fights.

Comparing Hody with Kaido is one of worst way to have sway on examples especially he wasn't treated to be that serious level compare to Kaido and plus Zoro got captured afterwards and Hody came back stronger and face Luffy in solo fight afterwards, so yeah it didn't say anything Zoro got involve later and just waited on results of the matter with everyone.

Nah, you have agenda and your not helping on your post if you want be fair about this. Please stop making it be S vs Z as our talk lately been more like L vs Z situation, so let's not go into off-topic on something else. Honestly I would prefer ending this discussion since we won't agree with each other from how it seems more and more.

Why would support that when evidence already shown interactions of Sanji vs King and Queen vs Zoro more and more? Changing on dynamic one thing won't create change in everything in how he works at all. You really want this be S vs Z the more we keep talking. Can we not and try talking about something else or use better example than what your using if you want me to try to see your way, but your doing more opposite bad than good. Also who say Scabbards, Supernova Captains, and so on will outshine Luffy? I don't see them doing that either and just fight with Luffy in Major Fight with Kaido. Obviously Luffy be the one to shine the most and with that many forces, Zoro isn't really needed to be involve especially he will have his own issues on his end with enemies given what's going on. That is more possibility going on right now than what you trying to insert during this conversation.

I am not. Been calm while talking about this, but your taking this seriously than needs to be over a post. Can we Agree to Disagree as we won't get anywhere like this.

 

[Nie Li]

'Possibility' like past 20+ years of him not facing any not being involve of Luffy's Major Opponents for Luffy? Yeah I take years of what I learn over fanboyism who want to push that.

The irony of this point coming now from you is just too big.

Yes, let's agree to disagree. You are right that this won't get anywhere like that.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Comparing Hody with Kaido is one of worst way to have sway on examples especially he wasn't treated to be that serious level compare to Kaido and plus Zoro got captured afterwards and Hody came back stronger and face Luffy in solo fight afterwards, so yeah it didn't say anything Zoro got involve later and just waited on results of the matter with everyone.

but the hody fight showed that sometimes zoro did fight against the major antagonist. That opens possibility for luffy zoro vs kaido, too

 

[King Moe]

The irony of this point coming now from you is just too big.

Yes, let's agree to disagree. You are right that this won't get anywhere like that.

Thank you for admitting that and I wouldn't say irony given how you been on your favorite character. We can see who you go for the most, so don't be afraid next time on admitting it. Would honestly respect (Not that I don't respect you now, but just saying I would more) you more for coming clean on defending your favorite character xD.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 23, 2020 ---

but the hody fight showed that sometimes zoro did fight against the major antagonist. That opens possibility for luffy zoro vs kaido, too

Hody isn't an serious foe though as much as we can say on Foxy being one. Kaido is full monster through and through on how they will face him, Zoro not getting that unless he be hype tool again as he isn't touching him. Let him have his spotlight with different enemies as not facing Kaido doesn't do anything for him or damage his character when he got his own enemies he got to contend with after all.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Hody isn't an serious foe though as much as we can say on Foxy being one. Kaido is full monster through and through on how they will face him, Zoro not getting that unless he be hype tool again as he isn't touching him. Let him have his spotlight with different enemies as not facing Kaido doesn't do anything for him or damage his character when he got his own enemies he got to contend with after all.

hody isn't a serious foe? What? The guy's default face is frowning. You're just making a headcanon by comparing it to foxy.
He is the major antagonist of FI arc. Zoro's getting enma to assist luffy against kaido

 

[Nie Li]

Thank you for admitting that and I wouldn't say irony given how you been on your favorite character. We can see who you go for the most, so don't be afraid next time on admitting it. Would honestly respect (Not that I don't respect you now, but just saying I would more) you more for coming clean on defending your favorite character xD.

It feels like you're baiting me, but it also feels like you didn't understand what I called an irony (it was the part the single line I chose to quote; about Oda).

Not that it matters, but please bait me on a Zoro thread instead.