Fantasy Jellal and Laxus vs Irene

[sharkai]

no she wasn't and natsu didn't kill zeref are you reading the same manga???, alvarez natsu >gildarts erasing FH zeref body is above everything that gild did in alvarez, current natsu will do to him far worser than august did to him.

laxus killed someone had in immunity over his magic, gray knocked out someone that gray had an advantage over him(gray output>laxus output )

deosn't matter what happened((after)) he tanked gildarts strongest spell shown till now which gave him only a bloody lip, irene dragon form got one shotted by a cut from a non DS mage this clearly show that august was more durable than her even in her dragon form.

alvarez, natsu>gild>>>erza no pof included and BTW since you believe erza statements and believe that she always thought that she was stronger than laxus, will she always said that natsu was equal to her and even stronger since phantom arc so why you rank her above natsu????!!

august=irene, but august feats were alot better than her.

and back to the topic irene lose the first round low diffs them the seconed.

o well i was under impression that alverzec gildarts was above alverzec natsu till pof

Didnt laxus kill wahl who wasnt even gaurding and laughing his head off?

I thought it was simple logic, if you cant fight anymore you try to go kamikaze

Erza knew about natsu potential.

August feats arent better. As i already said he beat cs because of hax. And he couldnt put gildarts nor cana down. Irene put wendy down, technically she also put erza down, Wendy healed her after that. Strongest non suicide moves is irene move by long shot

 

[ald7mi_99]

o well i was under impression that alverzec gildarts was above alverzec natsu till pof

Didnt laxus kill wahl who wasnt even gaurding and laughing his head off?

I thought it was simple logic, if you cant fight anymore you try to go kamikaze

Erza knew about natsu potential.

August feats arent better. As i already said he beat cs because of hax. And he couldnt put gildarts nor cana down. Irene put wendy down, technically she also put erza down, Wendy healed her after that. Strongest non suicide moves is irene move by long shot

when natsu used DF against FH zeref and erased his body alongside the guild hall it wasn't a pof and no one can replicate that in alvarez except acnologia.

wahl is immune to lightning so he was confident that laxus can't harm him but laxus raiko was strong enough to bypassed that immunity and gray strongest attack in alvarez only putted invel down he even couldn't make him lose consciousness. laxus output>>gray output.

august after tanking gild spell he litrally could kill gild cuase he was tired and his other arm shattered but august was angry so he went from killing only gild to kill all of fiore resident, and didn't irene went on to use her dragon form and busted a metoer (her best stuff) and they got overpowerd by broken bones erza, august spells didn't got overpowerd at all like irene.

his hax is his magic itself if you don't want to take his magic into account then you should do the same for irene hax like separation, turning into dragon ,deus sema and other stuff.

i can say the same for august too he technically beated gild who was helpless after august tanked his strongest spell and his arm got broken august could kill him immediately but like how the plot didn't let irene kills wendy and erza the plot also didn't let august kills gild and cana.

she didn't talk about any potential she said with a straight face to jose in phantom arc that natsu is stronger than her so why do you rank her above him and don't take her statements about natsu as you do about laxus?? whats the difference??

and i will say it again august=irene but august had the better portayal and the better feats.

 

[Seven777]

That why i asked you to acceot my assumption of gildarts placing with respect to erza and laxus.
So yes i can, unless you disagree with gildarts placement

There is nothing special about of etherion, its a weapon thats it. Stop bring legendary spells and comparing them with normal spells. Gmg cana strongest move was above gmg laxus strongest move. Who in the right mind would say gmg cana is above gmg laxus.

Erm whats your point. Erza at this level was above anything irene saw before. Pof erza >> erza

Demon Minerva broke nakagami?
Kiria broke belserion?

Dimeria, bloodman are like august. There primary power are not strength but hax. You think wendy can block full power serena or full power laxus moves

Blocking or destroying powerful moves always creates a shock effect, just like what happened with deus sema


I have two questions here
1) are mages who produces physical attacks inherently weaker than mages who dont? Because their attacks are more likely to break compared to say fire or lightning or time or dark zeref waves
2) assuming erza belserion is equal to laxus reiko red lightning, lets say laxus can only cast reiko red lightning 5 times, and of course, all erza really need to do after conjuring tye belserion sword is to swing. Is each of erza swing equal to laxus reiko red lightning? Wouldnt that be extreme unfair advantage to erza. How would you equalize them



Ok you assume eileen is superior, but what about gildarts. Is gildarts superior to natsu, wasnt august superior to gildarts, wasnt zeref superior to august. If natsu with his unique pof can overcome zeref. Why cant erza do it with her own outrageous pof?

Natsu has no special feeling thing. Never mentioned by marakrov or erza. He has hidden potential, nothing more.

My assumptions are still assumptions, if you're going to use them as proof of something then you have to go along with ALL my assumptions and even if you did do that, my assumptions still aren't feats. So no, Erza's durability doesn't scale to Gildarts, not by feats.

What do you mean there's nothing special about it? It's been a legendary spell literally before the manga even began. No one is saying Cana was above Laxus.

My point is that spriggans always, in literally every single situation, think the people they are fighting are trash. Invel after getting his faced smashed in by Gray, still had the nerve to smack talk him afterwards, right before giving the old "not possible" line.

Benizakura>>>Nakagami, it's not even close.
Kyria with an ordinary kick, beat Benizakura, her formerly strongest weapon.
Who the fuck cares if they use hax? They're still leagues above their opponents, Dimaria was beating Wendy's ass easily without using any hax. As for the attacks she could block, she blocked Eileen's fireball too.
Shock effect? What about it?

1) No? If someone breaks you spell you just cast another one, no different to if someone just blocks a fire punch from Natsu or something, he just throws another. AoE attacks like nukes or roars or whatever are presumably harder to defend against, which is probably why Erza didn't wait for Deus Sema to land and slash the explosion.
2) If Erza can match Raiko with every swing of her sword and swing it more often than Laxus can use Raiko then I have a hard time seeing Laxus win. That said, I think Raiko would break True Benizakura after multiple clashes.

Natsu is the dragon king, he's the strongest in the manga. August is better than Gildarts, yes. Zeref? Who knows, nothing about him impresses me, hype or feats.
Because Erza isn't Natsu, because she doesnt have his abilities, because she couldn't win the fight and because she couldn't solo it, Eileen was the stronger, not just in comparison to Erza, but in comparison to her and Wendy combined.
What are you talking about? I literally gave you a panel from the manga specifically stating that he has the unique type of magic called "Flame of Emotion"

 

[sharkai]

My assumptions are still assumptions, if you're going to use them as proof of something then you have to go along with ALL my assumptions and even if you did do that, my assumptions still aren't feats. So no, Erza's durability doesn't scale to Gildarts, not by feats.

What do you mean there's nothing special about it? It's been a legendary spell literally before the manga even began. No one is saying Cana was above Laxus.

My point is that spriggans always, in literally every single situation, think the people they are fighting are trash. Invel after getting his faced smashed in by Gray, still had the nerve to smack talk him afterwards, right before giving the old "not possible" line.

Benizakura>>>Nakagami, it's not even close.
Kyria with an ordinary kick, beat Benizakura, her formerly strongest weapon.
Who the fuck cares if they use hax? They're still leagues above their opponents, Dimaria was beating Wendy's ass easily without using any hax. As for the attacks she could block, she blocked Eileen's fireball too.
Shock effect? What about it?

1) No? If someone breaks you spell you just cast another one, no different to if someone just blocks a fire punch from Natsu or something, he just throws another. AoE attacks like nukes or roars or whatever are presumably harder to defend against, which is probably why Erza didn't wait for Deus Sema to land and slash the explosion.
2) If Erza can match Raiko with every swing of her sword and swing it more often than Laxus can use Raiko then I have a hard time seeing Laxus win. That said, I think Raiko would break True Benizakura after multiple clashes.

Natsu is the dragon king, he's the strongest in the manga. August is better than Gildarts, yes. Zeref? Who knows, nothing about him impresses me, hype or feats.
Because Erza isn't Natsu, because she doesnt have his abilities, because she couldn't win the fight and because she couldn't solo it, Eileen was the stronger, not just in comparison to Erza, but in comparison to her and Wendy combined.
What are you talking about? I literally gave you a panel from the manga specifically stating that he has the unique type of magic called "Flame of Emotion"

Thats why i started this debate with gildarts strength. We had to make that assumption otherwise gildarts is slightly stronger than bluenote and pretty much one shotable by erza like characters.

Its not a simple spell. But its not legendary either. Its a weapon in fairy tail. When an entire country is behind it, it can destroy a country. When wahl is behind it maybe it can kill laxus
Its not like fairy spells where cana can suddenly overpower laxus like characters

So we are just gonna ignore dues sema smashing feat as if its nothing?

Nope. Gmg nakagami was above. Tartarus most likely too.
Old attacks being overpowered isnt shocking
This is why i brought up the below. If erzq summons benizakura, every strike isnt gonna be her strongest. Thus breaking it is not the same as breaking sema like nuke stuffs (which exist like a nuke for a few seconds)

Hax are overcomed differently. You, i or mishma doesnt know how. But since its nots that characters speciality we can forgive it. If one guy only has brute strength and that gets blockes easily by character far below him, then we have a problem, then we have a problem. Can wendy roar cancel natsu dargon king roar? Would it protect her atleast (no aoe problemhere)?

No, you side step the question. If true benizakura is equal to reiko red lightning than erza would easily beat laxus. Thus every swing of that sword is not that level attack.

That panel doesnt help. Erza also taking power from dead markarov, sometimes from her nakama. Thats her speciality i guess.
Question
Does erza even have pof? Does it make her stronger or not?
Beating your opponent means nothing here. We are talking about whether pof erza can be >> gildarts
So how do we rank pof erza feats

 

[Seven777]

Thats why i started this debate with gildarts strength. We had to make that assumption otherwise gildarts is slightly stronger than bluenote and pretty much one shotable by erza like characters.

Its not a simple spell. But its not legendary either. Its a weapon in fairy tail. When an entire country is behind it, it can destroy a country. When wahl is behind it maybe it can kill laxus
Its not like fairy spells where cana can suddenly overpower laxus like characters

So we are just gonna ignore dues sema smashing feat as if its nothing?

Nope. Gmg nakagami was above. Tartarus most likely too.
Old attacks being overpowered isnt shocking
This is why i brought up the below. If erzq summons benizakura, every strike isnt gonna be her strongest. Thus breaking it is not the same as breaking sema like nuke stuffs (which exist like a nuke for a few seconds)

Hax are overcomed differently. You, i or mishma doesnt know how. But since its nots that characters speciality we can forgive it. If one guy only has brute strength and that gets blockes easily by character far below him, then we have a problem, then we have a problem. Can wendy roar cancel natsu dargon king roar? Would it protect her atleast (no aoe problemhere)?

No, you side step the question. If true benizakura is equal to reiko red lightning than erza would easily beat laxus. Thus every swing of that sword is not that level attack.

That panel doesnt help. Erza also taking power from dead markarov, sometimes from her nakama. Thats her speciality i guess.
Question
Does erza even have pof? Does it make her stronger or not?
Beating your opponent means nothing here. We are talking about whether pof erza can be >> gildarts
So how do we rank pof erza feats

No, his durability would be on the level that could tank Eileen tier attacks, since he fought her equal. That's where the actual feats lie, which is why I call double standard when you say "Erza is strong because she fought Eileen and Eileen is strong because she fought Erza" while also saying "Gildarts is weak because he fought August and August is weak because he fought Gildarts"

It certainly is legendary, arguably more so than Fairy Glitter. As for having a country behind it, no distinction was made for Wahl's, and going by Brandish's performance it being a country buster seems incredibly likely. That said it's featless, so I don't care.

No, it's impressive, it simply doesn't put Erza above Eileen lol.

Not at all, Benizakura is what was used for Kagura, for Kyoka, for Eillen. Nakagami was just for Minerva and Ajeel.

So what if every strike isnt her strongest? The same is true for every spell. Natsu has used Demolition Fist on Alvarez fodder soldiers lol. Benizakura is so powerful that Erza couldn't even hold it while spending magic on defense with her armor, it's the sword she uses when wants overwhelming power.

What's that got to do with anything? Dimaria didn't use hax on Wendy, she used pure brute strength and she was dominating her, and yet at the end of the day Wendy could still block her Full Powered attack.
Natsu's roar would swallow Wendy's roar.

How is that side stepping the question? I said I don't think Laxus would win lol.

If you're claiming that Makarov literally granted her strength than go ahead, still doesn't change the fact that Natsu has something unique to him.
Yes Erza has PoF, everyone does. Yes it makes her stronger, just like everyone else.
It means everything if you're trying to claim that Erza "overpowered" Eileen.
You rank them along with every other feat she had in the fight, just like you've been doing with Gildarts vs August.

 

[sharkai]

No, his durability would be on the level that could tank Eileen tier attacks, since he fought her equal. That's where the actual feats lie, which is why I call double standard when you say "Erza is strong because she fought Eileen and Eileen is strong because she fought Erza" while also saying "Gildarts is weak because he fought August and August is weak because he fought Gildarts"

It certainly is legendary, arguably more so than Fairy Glitter. As for having a country behind it, no distinction was made for Wahl's, and going by Brandish's performance it being a country buster seems incredibly likely. That said it's featless, so I don't care.

No, it's impressive, it simply doesn't put Erza above Eileen lol.

Not at all, Benizakura is what was used for Kagura, for Kyoka, for Eillen. Nakagami was just for Minerva and Ajeel.

So what if every strike isnt her strongest? The same is true for every spell. Natsu has used Demolition Fist on Alvarez fodder soldiers lol. Benizakura is so powerful that Erza couldn't even hold it while spending magic on defense with her armor, it's the sword she uses when wants overwhelming power.

What's that got to do with anything? Dimaria didn't use hax on Wendy, she used pure brute strength and she was dominating her, and yet at the end of the day Wendy could still block her Full Powered attack.
Natsu's roar would swallow Wendy's roar.

How is that side stepping the question? I said I don't think Laxus would win lol.

If you're claiming that Makarov literally granted her strength than go ahead, still doesn't change the fact that Natsu has something unique to him.
Yes Erza has PoF, everyone does. Yes it makes her stronger, just like everyone else.
It means everything if you're trying to claim that Erza "overpowered" Eileen.
You rank them along with every other feat she had in the fight, just like you've been doing with Gildarts vs August.

So then wouldnt gildarts and erza have same durability. My weak argument was august is his hax. August basically faught magic less gildarts. Its like wahl faught laxus who couldnt use his lightning.

But does it put erza above gildarts?

New attacks are generally stronger than old ones, in gmg nakagami was indeed the strongest
That is the point, (also covering question you side stepped). My point here was, if all erza strike with a strong sword arent that strong, breaking that sword isnt impressive. Its not like minerva broke benizakura when erza was putting everything in it. Thus not the same as overwhelmed an attack we know is top tier like deus sema.

Dimeria speciality isnt nukes, its time. Her power wont translate efficiently to nukes. Thus wendy blocking can be excused, doubt wendy can block a upper tier attack from laxus.

What do you mean swallow. Sure natsu roar will be either side of wendy roar. But its not gonna be in the place of wendy roar, thus wendy can actually pretty much protect herself from natsu roar, by her own. This can work if weaker attack can stop stronger attacks.

Fine, i concede, natsu has something unique to him. But since erza pof does boost her. I still can argue for por erza above gildarts
If pof erza is above normal erza, then for few moments pof erza can be above irene, is that possible?
That is what i am trying, pof erza overwhelmed deus sema, but you say there is no standard here. A causal gildarts can do it. Then pof erza with ds cut dragon irene. Now laxus is also doing it without pof. So i dont seems to have any useful feat for pof erza now

 

[Seven777]

So then wouldnt gildarts and erza have same durability. My weak argument was august is his hax. August basically faught magic less gildarts. Its like wahl faught laxus who couldnt use his lightning.

But does it put erza above gildarts?

New attacks are generally stronger than old ones, in gmg nakagami was indeed the strongest
That is the point, (also covering question you side stepped). My point here was, if all erza strike with a strong sword arent that strong, breaking that sword isnt impressive. Its not like minerva broke benizakura when erza was putting everything in it. Thus not the same as overwhelmed an attack we know is top tier like deus sema.

Dimeria speciality isnt nukes, its time. Her power wont translate efficiently to nukes. Thus wendy blocking can be excused, doubt wendy can block a upper tier attack from laxus.

What do you mean swallow. Sure natsu roar will be either side of wendy roar. But its not gonna be in the place of wendy roar, thus wendy can actually pretty much protect herself from natsu roar, by her own. This can work if weaker attack can stop stronger attacks.

Fine, i concede, natsu has something unique to him. But since erza pof does boost her. I still can argue for por erza above gildarts
If pof erza is above normal erza, then for few moments pof erza can be above irene, is that possible?
That is what i am trying, pof erza overwhelmed deus sema, but you say there is no standard here. A causal gildarts can do it. Then pof erza with ds cut dragon irene. Now laxus is also doing it without pof. So i dont seems to have any useful feat for pof erza now

Would they? Gildarts wasn't left with all his bones broken after the fight.
Your weak argument is that Gildarts made August commit suicide with one attack and that his attacks were too weak to beat Gildarts. The hax argument is just the reason why Gildarts only got that one attack and it all could easily be explained by simply saying "Gildarts is just that strong" like you have been saying for PoF Erza all this time

No imo

Generally, sure, but Nakagami has utility purposes outside strength, Benizakura is a blade purely for power, power so great she can't even hold it while spending magic on armor.
You still haven't explained how I sidestepped anything.
Irrelevant, you don't know that Eileen put everything into Deus Sema either. What we do know is that Deus Sema is Eileen's strongest spell, and that Benizakura was Erza's, they both broke.

What her specialty is doesn't matter, we've seen her performance, no hax, pure brute strength Dimaria, smashed Wendy's face in easily. Claim all the deficiencies you want in Dimaria's offense but with that deficient offense she is still stronger than Wendy, FAR stronger, and yet Wendy can still block her full powered attack. Erza is the same, she was shown weaker than Eileen, clearly weaker, but even still she was able to bust Deus Sema.
As in Wendy, her roar, and the surrounding area all get engulfed by Natsu's Roar

You can argue it, and yes it's possible, but Sting being stronger than Gildarts is also possible, I merely think it incredibly unlikely.
Sure, because I rank Gildarts above Erza, why wouldn't I think he could do it? Same with your Laxus example. You seem to be ranking Erza's PoF like she got a Dragon Force tier power up or something, that's not how I see it, such increases in power are always noted in the manga. I think PoF let Erza move with broken bones, I think PoF restored her strength, made her strike harder than she normally could, but she didn't jump a tier. Imo a fresh Erza without broken bones would've been able to do all that without PoF.

 

[Verter]

Laxus was out of magic fighting Erza without PoF and no Wendy buffs yet he is supposed to be on Irene's level???

Majority ppl on this forum are not so smart. It's sad, but it's reality.

For example, look on that guy' post:

Irene loses both rounds. Her Dragon Form is getting one by Laxus. Also make her fully healed between rounds. Doesn't matter.

These guys don't get even simple evidence.
For example, Brandish proved one more time that w.o, any fanservice or trolling plot (Lucy&Cana), she easily handle FT guys.

Brandish forcefully (w.o. asking target) turned Gajeel into giant to fight against Aldoron. It's pretty confirms one more time, in that situation Brandish could easily "explode" Gajeel internal organ. If it won't be oneshot for Gajeel. it will be very grevious damage with her single move.

And as we remember, Brandish is not strongest spriggan and she never was one. With her power she feared August and Irene and said "I'm nothing against them".

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 10, 2020 ---

P.S. Since @Axiomus did not disprove statement ""Laxus solo Irene", I'll record it as @Axiomus position too.

 

[Axiomus]

Wendy was unconscious when Erza broke Irene's meteor. Unless you think the buff she put on Erza at the very beginning of their fight persisted even after Wendy was taken over by Irene and then fell unconscious. In any case, it's not like Erza didn't have enchantments fighting Laxus. She had a dragon slaying seal and her enchanted swords. While I don't think Laxus is on Irene's level, I think it's perfectly reason to assume he'll be able to replicate most of what Erza did to Irene....especially with Jellal helping out.

POF making Erza stronger is a legitimate argument. But Erza doesn't have Natsu levels of POF. Nobody has Natsu levels of POF. Zeref with his 400 years of suffering doesn't even have Natsu levels of POF.

Wendy's roar would get engulfed the same way Rogue's roar was engulfed. In fact, the difference in power level between Natsu and Wendy in Alvarez might actually be bigger than Natsu and Rogue in GMG.

Cana's strongest move wasn't stronger than Laxus' strongest move during the GMG. Laxus still had Fairy Law, which is basically just as powerful with the option to target multiple people.

Assuming that all Spriggans have equal attack power is exactly what spawned the unholy argument that is Jacob having country busting slaps in the first place. Please stop. A remind that Neinhart is also a Spriggan, and not just that.....He was enchanted to be stronger than the average Spriggan.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 10, 2020 ---

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 10, 2020 ---

P.S. Since @Axiomus did not disprove statement ""Laxus solo Irene", I'll record it as @Axiomus position too.

Lmao. I didn't even pay attention to @Loke's post until you quoted it. Try harder.

Also, Brandish didn't turn Gajeel giant against his will. He was willing and eager to go giant to fight Aldoron.

 

[Verter]

Lmao. I didn't even pay attention to @Loke's post until you quoted it. Try harder.

So, you don't agree with that post, am I right?

 

[Axiomus]

So, you don't agree with that post, am I right?

I don't agree that Laxus could solo Irene, no.

 

[Loke]

Majority ppl on this forum are not so smart. It's sad, but it's reality.

For example, look on that guy' post:




These guys don't get even simple evidence.
For example, Brandish proved one more time that w.o, any fanservice or trolling plot (Lucy&Cana), she easily handle FT guys.

Brandish forcefully (w.o. asking target) turned Gajeel into giant to fight against Aldoron. It's pretty confirms one more time, in that situation Brandish could easily "explode" Gajeel internal organ. If it won't be oneshot for Gajeel. it will be very grevious damage with her single move.

And as we remember, Brandish is not strongest spriggan and she never was one. With her power she feared August and Irene and said "I'm nothing against them".

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 10, 2020 ---

P.S. Since @Axiomus did not disprove statement ""Laxus solo Irene", I'll record it as @Axiomus position too.

Struggling to find anything of substance in this wall of text

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2020 ---

Laxus was out of magic fighting Erza without PoF and no Wendy buffs yet he is supposed to be on Irene's level???

1. Laxus would have won outright had he not expended magic on a secret art to fell Kiria.
2. The Dragon Slayer Sword and Dragon Seal were both in effect Those are Wendy buffs. Regardless of the means to enchant Natsu and Gray's powers on twin blades (still up in the air imo) she still needed foreign magic to take into this fight with her.
3. What level is Irene? I didn't really notice much of a disparity when they fought. Erza seemed on par and tanked/evaded multiple attacks as if she was fighting an average Spriggan or something. Even after Wendy had been sidelined and Irene was enraged.

Y'all guys also really forget Erza lost that fight despite having multiple factors against Irene which Laxus clearly doesn't have.

She didn't lose though. She destroyed Irene's best spell with broken bones. Irene went over to finish her and Erza headbutted her. You lose when you cease to fight, like when she did when Laxus made her prostrate herself before him and fangirl over his strength before passing out

And don't act like him being a stronger DS than Wendy means anything as he practically did the same damage to Zirconis as Wendy did lol

Awesome. Now join us in the present why don't you.

Wendy also has the better skillset to face Irene just like she did against WW who fodderized Laxus.

Ultimately a speck of DS attribute on a blade took out Dragon Irene. Laxus has a constant supply of DS attribute, he's mangling that dragon. Human Irene gets folded outright.

Laxus is in no shape 1v1-ing Irene. Strips his magic, bfrs him, puts a sword through his face, turns his magic into flowers, turns him into a pet, blows his brains out, or straight up outstats him.

BFR requires prep, magic stripping can be dodged, she didn't look to outstat a worn out Erza by much so doubtful and the mouse thing was used on fodder. The rest is headcanon.

 

[Jko]

Erza without PoF

Spoiler: Can't flinch a half powered God tier w/DS buffs

Erza with PoF

Spoiler: Slams a powered up God tier out of the sky w/zero buffs

Wendy never buffed Erza in that fight so....

Spoiler

1. Laxus would have won outright had he not expended magic on a secret art to fell Kiria.

Headcanon. Nothing in the story indicated that fodder level attack took anything out of him. It's about as bs as saying Natsu wasn't at full power against Aldo. Unless story indicates a nerf than one fodder level attack isn't tipping the scales in the fight.

2. The Dragon Slayer Sword and Dragon Seal were both in effect Those are Wendy buffs. Regardless of the means to enchant Natsu and Gray's powers on twin blades (still up in the air imo) she still needed foreign magic to take into this fight with her.

Wendy didn't buff Erza. The DSeal buffs zero stats. Enchanted weaponry meant nothing as Blumenblatt was stronger than those blades. It also wasn't foreign magic as she enchanted them herself.

3. What level is Irene? I didn't really notice much of a disparity when they fought. Erza seemed on par and tanked/evaded multiple attacks as if she was fighting an average Spriggan or something. Even after Wendy had been sidelined and Irene was enraged.

Top tier unlike Laxus. She fought PoF Erza and held back lol. Laxus went all out against a non PoF Erza and tied. See the difference above between Erza and PoF Erza. We are forgetting Laxus need an asspull against an average S12? This is also the same Laxus who was in awe of Aldo size Gajeel lol. Obviously he's not on Irene's level.

She didn't lose though. She destroyed Irene's best spell with broken bones. Irene went over to finish her and Erza headbutted her. You lose when you cease to fight, like when she did when Laxus made her prostrate herself before him and fangirl over his strength before passing ou

t

She lost and everyone with eyes could see she lost. This is why Irene had to kill herself. She didn't pass out right afterwards while saying she was out of magic lol. Also PoF Erza did those things which are considered by the majority to be outlier feats. We also can't forget PoF Erza actually brouhht down RoT Dragon Acno while Laxus failed to budge the Human/Spirit Acno.

Spoiler

Awesome. Now join us in the present why don't you.

Feats of him hurting a Dragon more than Wendy? The difference in AP between the two is still the same as the past lol. Nothing indicated that he would do more damage than Wendy against a Dragon this time.

Ultimately a speck of DS attribute on a blade took out Dragon Irene. Laxus has a constant supply of DS attribute, he's mangling that dragon. Human Irene gets folded outright.

Didn't take her out. Laxus DS magic has taken down what dragon? Also PoF Erza >>>> Laxus and a sword attack is far more lethal than blunt attack. August tanked Gild's attack only bloody lip yet almost got killed by an enlarged dagger lol. Erza in one strike did as much damage on Laxus as he did on her with several RL attacks. She also wasn't going for lethal hits i.e. neck.

BFR requires prep, magic stripping can be dodged, she didn't look to outstat a worn out Erza by much so doubtful and the mouse thing was used on fodder. The rest is headcanon.

Wasn't talking U1. She has spacial magic as shown when she teleported Erza's sword to herself. U1's prep is also minimal and only took time due to the sheer amount of land she was reshaping. Magic stripping can be dodged? Lmfao this ain't a direct attack that can simply be dodged. Anyone within her radius of magic will be affected by it. She is pulling the magic out of his body not shooting a lightning bolt or laser beam lol. She outstatted a fully healthy Erza who was buffed by Wendy and outstatted her while in a body (Wendy B) that was less than 1% of her real body lol. Show me Laxus resisting matter manipulation or transmutation? You can't just say Laxus can resist something bcs you want him to. Nothing I said was headcanon as she has shown she can do all things I've stated.

 

[Loke]

Erza without PoF

Spoiler: Can't flinch a half powered God tier w/DS buffs

Erza with PoF

Spoiler: Slams a powered up God tier out of the sky w/zero buffs

How are you even determining whether POF is in effect or not? Moreover, Erza unloaded on Acno with the full extent of her weaponry. She's hitting Merc with a basic Blumenblatt.

Wendy never buffed Erza in that fight so....

Spoiler

Whether Wendy gave her this or not doesn't change the fact that she needed foreign magic on her blades to contest Laxus. Then he literally takes that and smiles

Headcanon. Nothing in the story indicated that fodder level attack took anything out of him. It's about as bs as saying Natsu wasn't at full power against Aldo. Unless story indicates a nerf than one fodder level attack isn't tipping the scales in the fight.

It's literally his secret art. For reference, Natsu used a secret art as an intended finisher on Merc after failing with multiple FDK spells. Get the picture? They are still a big deal, so you calling it fodder is just the epitome of downplay. He would have had enough magic in stock to outlast her completely in a fight had he not used it.

Wendy didn't buff Erza. The DSeal buffs zero stats. Enchanted weaponry meant nothing as Blumenblatt was stronger than those blades. It also wasn't foreign magic as she enchanted them herself.

A buff is a buff, and Erza's most effective tools in that fight are thanks to Wendy. Erza relying solely on her own skillset lasted all of five seconds because Laxus tore through her Lightning Empress armor with a no name punch, then she called on the power of those enchantments with the quickness. I'd go so far as saying that Wendy's enchantments are carrying Erza in 100YQ. She needed that DS sword to turn the tides against Kiria ffs.

Top tier unlike Laxus. She fought PoF Erza and held back lol.

Gonna take this POF and throw it out because you really have no means of ascertaining when it's in use. I'll judge the feats as they are and proceed. Moreover, Irene didn't hold back. She hesitated to deal the killing blow due to Erza smiling but everything before that was an honest battle.

Spoiler

So not only is she screaming die die die a the top of her lungs but also, in her mind , humans aren't capable of defending against meteorites. And yet she flung that thing from deep space onto Erza. Yeah, totally held back

Laxus went all out against a non PoF Erza and tied. See the difference above between Erza and PoF Erza.

Nope, not really.

Spoiler

Used all her power and still ate shit. Wasn't a tie either.

We are forgetting Laxus need an asspull against an average S12?

You're not even trying at this point. Laxus is a hyped and proven Spriggan killer. Your average Spriggan is one shot material for him. Lightning immunity kept Wahl in that fight. The second he lost it, he died. What bodies did Erza pile up in Alvarez? Or hell, even Irene.

This is also the same Laxus who was in awe of Aldo size Gajeel lol. Obviously he's not on Irene's level.

Seriously? Laxus making a comedic crack on Gajeel's appearance somehow translates to awe? Haha ok

She lost and everyone with eyes could see she lost.

No she didn't. Inconclusive at best.

This is why Irene had to kill herself. She didn't pass out right afterwards while saying she was out of magic lol.

Yawn.

Also PoF Erza did those things which are considered by the majority to be outlier feats.

I don't care about the majority, just wanna point that out.

We also can't forget PoF Erza actually brouhht down RoT Dragon Acno while Laxus failed to budge the Human/Spirit Acno.

Spoiler

Ok? Laxus still beat her.

Feats of him hurting a Dragon more than Wendy? The difference in AP between the two is still the same as the past lol. Nothing indicated that he would do more damage than Wendy against a Dragon this time.

Bro, who cares? lol

Didn't take her out. Laxus DS magic has taken down what dragon? Also PoF Erza >>>> Laxus and a sword attack is far more lethal than blunt attack.

She returned to normal, so yes, it took out "Dragon" Irene. Laxus will do the same. Nah, Laxus > Erza as established by 100YQ. Miss me with the lethality of blades. Laxus was eating what one shot Dragon Irene.

Spoiler

August tanked Gild's attack only bloody lip yet almost got killed by an enlarged dagger lol.

Don't care.

Erza in one strike did as much damage on Laxus as he did on her with several RL attacks. She also wasn't going for lethal hits i.e. neck.

The scan above shows several hits landing in succession and her not even drawing blood. Go figure.

Wasn't talking U1. She has spacial magic as shown when she teleported Erza's sword to herself.

So it hasn't been used on a fellow mage and even if we assume it can be, it's only demonstration was over a short range. Certainly not enough to BFR. Got it.

U1's prep is also minimal and only took time due to the sheer amount of land she was reshaping.

Still not happening. We don't even know of any other variants.

Magic stripping can be dodged? Lmfao this ain't a direct attack that can simply be dodged. Anyone within her radius of magic will be affected by it. She is pulling the magic out of his body not shooting a lightning bolt or laser beam lol.

Says who it can't ?

Spoiler

Looks like a direct attack to me. Cool it on the headcanon. She only used it on a single target in canon. There's nothing remotely supporting it working on a large number of individuals at once.

She outstatted a fully healthy Erza who was buffed by Wendy and outstatted her while in a body (Wendy B) that was less than 1% of her real body lol.

You think Wendy's usual buffs are permanent it seems. That's cute. In any case, Erza's hesitance to strike down Wendy's body played a role in her performance there.

Show me Laxus resisting matter manipulation or transmutation? You can't just say Laxus can resist something bcs you want him to. Nothing I said was headcanon as she has shown she can do all things I've stated.

Show Irene using transmutation on anyone that isn't fodder. You're going to need more than Hisui E. Fiore my guy.

 

[Nie Li]

We also can't forget PoF Erza actually brouhht down RoT Dragon Acno while Laxus failed to budge the Human/Spirit Acno.

Spoiler

I don't want to but into your Laxus vs Irene vs Erza discussion, but since I've read through the last posts I just want to objetively point out that this is not a good point.

Laxus used an attack that focused all of his strength into generating a lightning impact. Acno has 100% immunity to such an attack because he's the dragon of magic and it's like attacking Natsu with fire.

Erza made countless legendary swords rain down on Acnologia as if she was Gilgamesh or something. That's a 100% physical attack to which Acnologia that Acnologia can tank because he's just that much of a badass, but to which he doesn't have an immunity to, which is why he was pushed.

 

[Jko]

I don't want to but into your Laxus vs Irene vs Erza discussion, but since I've read through the last posts I just want to objetively point out that this is not a good point.

Laxus used an attack that focused all of his strength into generating a lightning impact. Acno has 100% immunity to such an attack because he's the dragon of magic and it's like attacking Natsu with fire.

Erza made countless legendary swords rain down on Acnologia as if she was Gilgamesh or something. That's a 100% physical attack to which Acnologia that Acnologia can tank because he's just that much of a badass, but to which he doesn't have an immunity to, which is why he was pushed.

Acno has complete immunity to regular weaponry such as swords as well. This was stated by Erza herself lol.

Spoiler

Her swords are also considered a magical attack.

Spoiler

She was in the same position as Laxus yet still moved him unlike Laxus.

How are you even determining whether POF is in effect or not? Moreover, Erza unloaded on Acno with the full extent of her weaponry. She's hitting Merc with a basic Blumenblatt.

Blumenblatt is the same move she used on Acno lmfao. Seriously trying to grasp straws with this. It doesn't matter how many she produce as each one of those attacks were producing enough force to move him in the first place which something she failed to do against Merc. How am I determining PoF? I mean it clearly shows. Amped Dragon God got pushed down by her swords while Depowered Dragon God was unaffected. Clearly standard Erza is the one who can't affect a Dragon God tier opponent.

Whether Wendy gave her this or not doesn't change the fact that she needed foreign magic on her blades to contest Laxus. Then he literally takes that and smiles

Do you know what foreign means? She enchanted those blades herself with their magic therefore it's her magic. It's like calling LFD "foreign" magic.

It's literally his secret art. For reference, Natsu used a secret art as an intended finisher on Merc after failing with multiple FDK spells. Get the picture? They are still a big deal, so you calling it fodder is just the epitome of downplay. He would have had enough magic in stock to outlast her completely in a fight had he not used it.

Gajeel used a secret art on fodder. The spell ain't squat for him to use. If it was a big deal then it would have been noted as big deal like it was for Mira and Erza when they were weakened. It meant nothing and he was completelt hundred percent to fight.

A buff is a buff, and Erza's most effective tools in that fight are thanks to Wendy.

Zero stat buffs. Dragon Slaying magic means nothing against non Dragon.

Erza relying solely on her own skillset lasted all of five seconds because Laxus tore through her Lightning Empress armor with a no name punch, then she called on the power of those enchantments with the quickness.

It is her own power as again she enchanted it herself. You sure are happy that he destroyed a fodder armor lol. Kagura did that as well and she got oneshotted right afterwards. Like when has her fodder armors ever been anything in the past decade? She literally no solds his roar as soon as she exits that fodder armor lol. He called upon his Red Lightning bcs he stated that his regular lightning wasn't going to cut it and stated she was still holding back against him while he was going all out.

I'd go so far as saying that Wendy's enchantments are carrying Erza in 100YQ. She needed that DS sword to turn the tides against Kiria ffs.

Again, Wendy didn't enchant Erza therefore it's not Wendy's enchantments. She fodderized Kiria in a fodder armor lmao. Stop, Kiria iterally admitted her inferiority to Erza. Only time Kiria got Erza on the ropes was when she used her hypno magic on Erza (which Laxus
bs his way through).

Gonna take this POF and throw it out because you really have no means of ascertaining when it's in use. I'll judge the feats as they are and proceed.

Spoiler

Yes, throw it out to try and make Laxus look better than he is. Go ahead use that clear as day outlier but we all know only PoF Erza can pull that out. We can for sure ascertain she is using PoF bcs she somehow took down a meteorite while having all her broken and singing about protecting her friends lol.

Moreover, Irene didn't hold back. She hesitated to deal the killing blow due to Erza smiling but everything before that was an honest battle

So not only is she screaming die die die a the top of her lungs but also, in her mind , humans aren't capable of defending against meteorites. And yet she flung that thing from deep space onto Erza. Yeah, totally held back.

She held back. It was stated she couldn't bring herself to ever kill Erza and stated by Wendy that she could have overpowered her enchantments.

Nope, not really.

Spoiler

Used all her power and still ate shit. Wasn't a tie either.

It was a tie. Both characters and the author himself admitted so.

Spoiler

You're not even trying at this point. Laxus is a hyped and proven Spriggan killer. Your average Spriggan is one shot material for him. Lightning immunity kept Wahl in that fight. The second he lost it, he died. What bodies did Erza pile up in Alvarez? Or hell, even Irene.

Spriggan killer couldn't even oneshot Kiria and failed to do anything after his fight with Wall lol. Laxus was only in the fight bcs Wall went retarded lol. Etherion >>>>> anything in Laxus arsenal. Erza took down Ajeel, stopped Irene, and brouhht Acno down onto the ship which weakened enough to seal him momentarily. What did Laxus do? Beat Wall and get fodderized by Acno lol.

Seriously? Laxus making a comedic crack on Gajeel's appearance somehow translates to awe? Haha ok

He was sweating along with Erza.

No she didn't. Inconclusive at best.

She won which is why she committed suicide. Erza was done while Irene wasn't. That is an actual winner not someone passing out right after the opponent passes out lol.

Yawn.

Your confirmation bias is real.

I don't care about the majority, just wanna point that out.

Coolio.

Ok? Laxus still beat her.

Tied against regular Erza, not PoF Erza lmao.

Bro, who cares? lol

Bcs him being stronger than Wendy = him doing more damage to Irene in Dragon form is not true as he failed to do more damge against Zirconis.

She returned to normal, so yes, it took out "Dragon" Irene. Laxus will do the same. Nah, Laxus > Erza as established by 100YQ. Miss me with the lethality of blades. Laxus was eating what one shot Dragon Irene.

Spoiler

Normal form would be her Dragon form not her human form. She consciously changed back. Laxus was eating what Irene batted away with a single hand swipe lmao. Again no lethal blows were thrown at him which she did against Irene.

Spoiler

Laxus would have been killed by that. He would have been killed if Erza aimed for his neck or head.

Spoiler

Don't care.

Not surprised.

The scan above shows several hits landing in succession and her not even drawing blood. Go figure.

The hits shown above proved she had zero trouble drawing blood. He was actively dodge her hits unlike Kiria.

So it hasn't been used on a fellow mage and even if we assume it can be, it's only demonstration was over a short range. Certainly not enough to BFR. Got it.

Teleportation is teleportation. Pretty sure she teleported to Acno and Mira as well.

Still not happening. We don't even know of any other variants.

Variant? It would be the same spell just on a smaller scale. We already know the process and the range is controlled by her.

Says who it can't ?

Spoiler

Looks like a direct attack to me. Cool it on the headcanon. She only used it on a single target in canon. There's nothing remotely supporting it working on a large number of individuals at once.

How is a shining light a direct attack??? That's like saying Fairy Law is a direct attack lol. You can also clearly see her hand pointing towards the sky so where was she aiming her spell since in your eyes it was a direct attack. As long as he is in her radius then he is susceptible to her enchantments.

Spoiler

She can enchant multiple people at the same time as shown when she enchanted 2 million people.

Spoiler

You think Wendy's usual buffs are permanent it seems. That's cute. In any case, Erza's hesitance to strike down Wendy's body played a role in her performance there.

Wendy buffs aren't permanent. That was Erza's own power. Erza was not hesistant at the beginning and didn't even register to hold back until Irene said something.

Show Irene using transmutation on anyone that isn't fodder. You're going to need more than Hisui E. Fiore my guy.

Not how it works. She only needs feats of showing she can transmute organic matter and she does. You need to show he can resist transmutation.

 

[Nie Li]

Acno has complete immunity to regular weaponry such as swords as well. This was stated by Erza herself lol.

Spoiler

Her swords are also considered a magical attack.

Spoiler

I can acknowledge your second point, but the first point doesn't make sense:

1- Erza say's weapons are useless in that obviously Acnologia is very resilient and durable. Even her attack of the sword rain didn't pierce him and were "useless".

But as we know, Acnologia nullifies and eats magic, not swords that are not magically created themselves, but rather only magically summoned.

2- If Acnologia was immune against swords' the same way he is immune against magic, Erza's attack wouldn't have pushed him. They didn't hurt him because he's too durable for that, but they pushed him because he's not immune to them. That's the difference between the attacks form Erza and Laxus that you compared.

 

[Jko]

I can acknowledge your second point, but the first point doesn't make sense:

1- Erza say's weapons are useless in that obviously Acnologia is very resilient and durable. Even her attack of the sword rain didn't pierce him and were "useless".

But as we know, Acnologia nullifies and eats magic, not swords that are not magically created themselves, but rather only magically summoned.

2- If Acnologia was immune against swords' the same way he is immune against magic, Erza's attack wouldn't have pushed him. They didn't hurt him because he's too durable for that, but they pushed him because he's not immune to them. That's the difference between the attacks form Erza and Laxus that you compared.

Acno doesn't need to eat magic to be immune to it. He is already pretty nigh immune to magic just like Natsu is to fire. If swords were more effective than Gajeel's iron sword wouldn't have just bounced of his body lol. Dude pretty much has invulnerability like Superman. Also a blade, iron, and armor dragon exist which would means swords would fall under an "element" he can eat as well since he is the DoM.

Concussive force produce by the attacks are what pushed him down. Laxus' lightning attacks produces the same concussive force as well which is why he was launching Wall across the city despite Wall being immune to lightning. It's the same with Natsu getting hurt by Jackal's explosions despite eating them. Being immune to the effects doesn't make him immune to the force emitted from the attacks.

Her swords were strong enough to produce the necessary force to move him while Laxus were not. The attacks would be the same as neither a blade nor lightning can harm him.

 

[Static]

Acno doesn't need to eat magic to be immune to it. He is already pretty nigh immune to magic just like Natsu is to fire. If swords were more effective than Gajeel's iron sword wouldn't have just bounced of his body lol. Dude pretty much has invulnerability like Superman. Also a blade, iron, and armor dragon exist which would means swords would fall under an "element" he can eat as well since he is the DoM.

Off topic but now you've given me the mental image of Acnologia flying through the world in a spandex.

 

[grey matter]

@Moegara
I think there is a misunderstanding regarding Acnologia vs magic.
Acnologia is immune to magic, in the sense that he has near 100% resistance and can eat them to get powerup. BUT, magic can still push him by sheer force of the spell. Eileen and Jellol managed to push back non serious Acno with magic, even tho Acno took no damage he was still pushed back due to sheer force.
As for Erza pushing back Acno, it is by the same logic too, even if it is by sword than pure magic. She just pushed him with force while doing no damage, tho the dragon Acno here was just a shell and acts only on instinct hence didn't resist the force of Erza's attack.

All that being said, I don't really consider pushing back Acno to be some unbelievable feat. I don't understand why people are making a big deal out of it @Jko . I mean, it certainly something only high tier and above characters can manage, but it's not something all too rare and don't need to be attributed to POF and stuff. Erza couldn't flinch half powered Merc because Merc was on guard and resisting force. Erza pushed back Acno because that was a mindless shell that acts only on instinct, isn't on guard and doesn't resist force.