Chapter Tower of God Chapter 485 Spoilers & Discussion

[King Dryst]

But to say Baam has been useless to any degree is not insane

I'd hope not. I like to consider myself mentally well, if somewhat contrarian.

 

[Crimson Ice]

I'd hope not. I like to consider myself mentally well, if somewhat contrarian.

:/ we got a comedian here.

 

[King Dryst]

:/ we got a comedian here.

Not a very good one, though. I'm not a fan of comedy. Hot takes, however, are always on the menu.

 

[MO7DSH]

Is there any new update from SIU ?

 

[OneEye]

Is there any new update from SIU ?

All we know is that he should be feeding us this December

 

[Turtle hunter]

I think it was foreshadowed since Season 1 that Baam's potential was too great to climb up the Tower with the rest of the Regulars and now (actually since the end of the Hidden Floor arc) we're finally starting to see why. The difference between them and him is just massive and odds are that it's going to keep getting bigger and bigger because Baam's growth rate far eclipses that of any Regular. For story purposes, Baam might be close to or comparable to Zahard once he reaches the 134th Floor. From what we know of his other companions, I think they'll be very lucky if they have reached the level of the weakest Ranker on existence by that point.

It saddens me because a lot of those Regular companions are among my favourite characters but from a writing standpoint it doesn't make much sense for them to continue the climb with Baam. It's like a bunch of ants accompanying a baby Tiger, no offence to the rest of the characters ofc. It's not that they lack talent (actually a lot of them are extremely talented in more ways than one for Regular standards), it's just that Baam is an Irregular and Irregulars are built differently. It's highly likely that after this war Baam will be targeted more than ever by Zahard's minions. They're bound to get in the way at some point.

I wonder how SIU is going to handle it. Baam continuing the climb on his own with the help of other more powerful organisations like FUG or Wolhaiksong makes sense to me, but I fear a lot of very important characters are going to be cast aside for a lot of time or they'll have some of their development butchered. I hope it doesn't happen. Frankly speaking, it will be hard for SIU to give a fair treatment to every single character. Who knows, maybe he'll even find a reasonable way for the rest of the Regulars to keep climbing with Baam, even though I highly doubt it.

Also, nice to see you here @hblock I think we already discussed something a long time ago regarding Yuri and Karaka here but most of our debates are in NF. What's with that signature avatar? That has to be one the creepiest ToG Fanarts I've ever seen and I've seen a lot

Totally according to TOG logics , even now Baam friend shouldn't be useful when strength matters . And the more pass the less relevant they will be . If Baam is FH level wich will be likely at 134 floor , they will not be relevant .

And like you said they talent amount to nothing compared to Adori who i recall is ranked 7 with the one who is the son of 2 FH like Baam and has Jahad blood . So her blood is 100 percent pure irregular blood with Zhard blood .

There is no way AA come close to that in talent , but saying that they would not be ranker level while being regular is false , sadly it should be true , but SIU has showed several instance of spinning the story to fit her narrative .

Just look at how AA became relevant again , SIU gifted him , without any reason and logic flame that can save people wich is a power even HR would dream off and basically is not limited .

You should be prepared to see bunch of nonsensical power up like that .

SIU basically doomed his writing logic when he treated that way has the ultimate thing and people whi can live for ridiculous amount of time .

AA was never special among people of his level , at best is ice make him good .

In TOG there are ultimate mediocre , basically wangnan of before , they are a multitude .

There are people who are between average and mediocre like the girl who is with wangnan and can go berserk .

There are average people like Khun before before all his power up, he had a good physique but not good in shinsoo < people like ran who are talented in they family and have HR potential at best AA stand here < people like Yihwa HR potential too < princess level of non FH family who are guaranteed future HR and good ranked between top 800 to 700 at best basically Baam GF < princess of FH shiliale Maria etc < powerful princess descendant who can enter top 300 and 100 , basically Yuri , Maschenny , Hagipherione < at the top there are unnique individual like Baek , the head of FUG and all of them are inferior to Adori , she stand above all of them .
And that is a big over simplification , the gap between all of them , that they can train all they whant semeone who is in a lower grade will never be able to catch up , worst than that , they will be foddee than them .

For people who still don't whant to understand the amount of ass pull SIU has to pull to make Baam friend ranker level before being a ranker .

We know that there the ranker with red head , said that between that 1 out of million can become ranker , but knowing that there 134 floor and that each floor has 5 to 6 billion at least . Where i whant to go is that there are possible 10 of million of people who climb the tower evey 100 or 200 to 500 years you can say more of you whant .

Zzhard kingdom existed for more 20 K years at least .

And according the the red hair ranker that was with Lero lero , every 2 to 3 ranker out of 1 million regular become a ranker and there is 100000 ranker .

100000* 1000000= 100000000000 so 100 billion and out of them there was only 2 people between non irregular who defeated a ranker while bieng a regular .

0.000000000001* 3 = 0.000000000003 of chance of doing what Adori .

Of course Baam friend are not trash but they will still have horrible odd like 1 in a million at best .

Let's take for example semeone like Kallavan who Sazon like to speak about saying that EOB was what made him so strong is partially false , he was already extremely talented , he had already HR potential and him entering top 800 700 was his max potential , the EOB just propeled him il the top 100 , wich is incredible of course , but Allavan was already talented .

Base AA should barely be able to become HR and or advanced ranker , but still far from Kallavan base talent .

If AA were to do what Adori , that means thay SIU would need to multiply Baam friend by million . Wich in my opinion would doom any logic and would be terribly bad .

But i am ready for it , Baam friend will be catching EOB like grass .

 

[noobsaibot]

Totally according to TOG logics , even now Baam friend shouldn't be useful when strength matters . And the more pass the less relevant they will be . If Baam is FH level wich will be likely at 134 floor , they will not be relevant .

And like you said they talent amount to nothing compared to Adori who i recall is ranked 7 with the one who is the son of 2 FH like Baam and has Jahad blood . So her blood is 100 percent pure irregular blood with Zhard blood .

There is no way AA come close to that in talent , but saying that they would not be ranker level while being regular is false , sadly it should be true , but SIU has showed several instance of spinning the story to fit her narrative .

Just look at how AA became relevant again , SIU gifted him , without any reason and logic flame that can save people wich is a power even HR would dream off and basically is not limited .

You should be prepared to see bunch of nonsensical power up like that .

SIU basically doomed his writing logic when he treated that way has the ultimate thing and people whi can live for ridiculous amount of time .

AA was never special among people of his level , at best is ice make him good .

In TOG there are ultimate mediocre , basically wangnan of before , they are a multitude .

There are people who are between average and mediocre like the girl who is with wangnan and can go berserk .

There are average people like Khun before before all his power up, he had a good physique but not good in shinsoo < people like ran who are talented in they family and have HR potential at best AA stand here < people like Yihwa HR potential too < princess level of non FH family who are guaranteed future HR and good ranked between top 800 to 700 at best basically Baam GF < princess of FH shiliale Maria etc < powerful princess descendant who can enter top 300 and 100 , basically Yuri , Maschenny , Hagipherione < at the top there are unnique individual like Baek , the head of FUG and all of them are inferior to Adori , she stand above all of them .
And that is a big over simplification , the gap between all of them , that they can train all they whant semeone who is in a lower grade will never be able to catch up , worst than that , they will be foddee than them .

For people who still don't whant to understand the amount of ass pull SIU has to pull to make Baam friend ranker level before being a ranker .

We know that there the ranker with red head , said that between that 1 out of million can become ranker , but knowing that there 134 floor and that each floor has 5 to 6 billion at least . Where i whant to go is that there are possible 10 of million of people who climb the tower evey 100 or 200 to 500 years you can say more of you whant .

Zzhard kingdom existed for more 20 K years at least .

And according the the red hair ranker that was with Lero lero , every 2 to 3 ranker out of 1 million regular become a ranker and there is 100000 ranker .

100000* 1000000= 100000000000 so 100 billion and out of them there was only 2 people between non irregular who defeated a ranker while bieng a regular .

0.000000000001* 3 = 0.000000000003 of chance of doing what Adori .

Of course Baam friend are not trash but they will still have horrible odd like 1 in a million at best .

Let's take for example semeone like Kallavan who Sazon like to speak about saying that EOB was what made him so strong is partially false , he was already extremely talented , he had already HR potential and him entering top 800 700 was his max potential , the EOB just propeled him il the top 100 , wich is incredible of course , but Allavan was already talented .

Base AA should barely be able to become HR and or advanced ranker , but still far from Kallavan base talent .

If AA were to do what Adori , that means thay SIU would need to multiply Baam friend by million . Wich in my opinion would doom any logic and would be terribly bad .

But i am ready for it , Baam friend will be catching EOB like grass .

You must be fun at parties.

 

[Fish009]

Totally according to TOG logics , even now Baam friend shouldn't be useful when strength matters . And the more pass the less relevant they will be . If Baam is FH level wich will be likely at 134 floor , they will not be relevant .

And like you said they talent amount to nothing compared to Adori who i recall is ranked 7 with the one who is the son of 2 FH like Baam and has Jahad blood . So her blood is 100 percent pure irregular blood with Zhard blood .

There is no way AA come close to that in talent , but saying that they would not be ranker level while being regular is false , sadly it should be true , but SIU has showed several instance of spinning the story to fit her narrative .

Just look at how AA became relevant again , SIU gifted him , without any reason and logic flame that can save people wich is a power even HR would dream off and basically is not limited .

You should be prepared to see bunch of nonsensical power up like that .

SIU basically doomed his writing logic when he treated that way has the ultimate thing and people whi can live for ridiculous amount of time .

AA was never special among people of his level , at best is ice make him good .

In TOG there are ultimate mediocre , basically wangnan of before , they are a multitude .

There are people who are between average and mediocre like the girl who is with wangnan and can go berserk .

Let's take for example semeone like Kallavan who Sazon like to speak about saying that EOB was what made him so strong is partially false , he was already extremely talented , he had already HR potential and him entering top 800 700 was his max potential , the EOB just propeled him il the top 100 , wich is incredible of course , but Allavan was already talented .

Base AA should barely be able to become HR and or advanced ranker , but still far from Kallavan base talent .

If AA were to do what Adori , that means thay SIU would need to multiply Baam friend by million . Wich in my opinion would doom any logic and would be terribly bad .

But i am ready for it , Baam friend will be catching EOB like grass .

i think the best approach to keep baam’s friends relevant is let baam be the power source of his teammate. Like whenever baam gets a power up, his friends automatically get a boost too. SIU has to make it logical of course, but it’ll be better than watching is friends getting yet another bullshit power/ skill/ shinsoo/ weapon/ whatever SIU think is cool.

I think its not entirely nonsensical, we know zahard can give his princesses power, yeon’s flame can be passed down to others (hell, even AA got one), Doom can turn people into dog-people, poken giving his shadow to reflejo...etc. it’s been “foreshadowed” since s1 or early s2, i cant understand why SIU choose to give bullshit power ups whenever convenient when he has this option

i was excited when baam took a piece of doom’s power, i was sure that SIU was paving the way for baam boosting his teammate. But no...SIU decided to have baam use transformation with the shield and sword crap, meanwhile AA got a bullshit fire/healing/boosting fish, like wtf. after 2 years of training under evenkhell and he didn’t learn a defensive skill, and the power baam got just an hour ago happened to be the only effective way, cool. Having fate in the story doesn’t excuse poor writing

 

[Crimson Ice]

Khun was always extremely talented even amping his peers. I don’t get why people act like Rak and Khun aren’t exceptional talents.

 

[Shasha23]

It seems people are forgetting Khun never trained like other kids of the 10 families before his climb nor did he want to climb because he said he never does anything unless he knows he can win.
We know he gave up in thinking he can beat his father in power so he decided he will outsmart him to take over as FH but during S2 he came to a realization that he can become powerful so for the first time he has started trying to train himself and from what little he has done he is already far above the people some of you are listing as talents above him.

This also applies to the core members of Baam's team, they are all crème de la crème, their talents and the fact that they are walking a new path in the tower means their limits of strength is something no one has ever achieved before.
These guys are capable of fighting rankers and even being useful in fights vs high ranker as mere D/C rank regulars, its not impossible to think they will be strong enough as HR to be useful vs Family Heads.

Its foolish to think Baam will cast aside such team members!

 

[Shadowlord123]

It seems people are forgetting Khun never trained like other kids of the 10 families before his climb nor did he want to climb because he said he never does anything unless he knows he can win.
We know he gave up in thinking he can beat his father in power so he decided he will outsmart him to take over as FH but during S2 he came to a realization that he can become powerful so for the first time he has started trying to train himself and from what little he has done he is already far above the people some of you are listing as talents above him.

This also applies to the core members of Baam's team, they are all crème de la crème, their talents and the fact that they are walking a new path in the tower means their limits of strength is something no one has ever achieved before.
These guys are capable of fighting rankers and even being useful in fights vs high ranker as mere D/C rank regulars, its not impossible to think they will be strong enough as HR to be useful vs Family Heads.

Its foolish to think Baam will cast aside such team members!

Sorry to ask, but since when any of the Regulars besides Baam is capable of fighting Rankers? If you mean against Daleet that was a team fight and it was noted that the Ranker could have gone and killed both Rak and AA first but didn't do so because he was not a guy who picked on the weak. AA is certainly very useful, but that's more because of his brilliant mind and not because of his power. Talking about currently and in the context of going up against Rankers ofc.

Besides Baam, the rest of the Regulars don't even come remotely close to the level of the weakest Rankers currently and it makes perfect sense that this is the case. Thus far, only the Irregulars and Adori have surpassed Ranker level while still being Regulars. Reaching or surpassing Ranker level while still being a Regular is a heretical feat pretty much. Doom (Top 200 HR) noted that it was absolutely impossible for a Regular to reach the level of a Ranker while he/she is still in the process of climbing. Considering he knows guys like Yama, who are more than likely Top 100 in strength at full power, this statement is pretty telling. It pretty much implies that someone who has the potential to be in the Top 100 has no hope of being Ranker Level while still being a Regular.

Obviously, Baam's companions are still really talented for being Regulars. I don't think there's somebody here who disagrees with this notion, but going with what we know thus far nothing indicates they are as talented as the likes of Maschenny for example, leave alone Adori and the FHs. I would say that the crème de la crème are the Irregulars, followed by Adori and probably the Regular High Rankers that are within the Top 20. Then you should have top Zahard princesses like Maschenny and people with the potential to be within the Top 100 (there may be another tier for Ranks 20-50 depending on how you see it). Baam's companions are probably a level or two below that as well and being generous with them since their current shown feats don't at all compare to Data Maschenny's. That may or may not change in the future though (most likely it will), since their climb is pretty special and there are other factors to take into account. Let's not kid ourselves either, they are also the MC's friends, so they'll most likely get at least a couple of power-ups as the one AA got with the Yeon Flame to keep their relevancy in the future.

 

[Shasha23]

Sorry to ask, but since when any of the Regulars besides Baam is capable of fighting Rankers? If you mean against Daleet that was a team fight and it was noted that the Ranker could have gone and killed both Rak and AA first but didn't do so because he was not a guy who picked on the weak. AA is certainly very useful, but that's more because of his brilliant mind and not because of his power. Talking about currently and in the context of going up against Rankers ofc.

Besides Baam, the rest of the Regulars don't even come remotely close to the level of the weakest Rankers currently and it makes perfect sense that this is the case. Thus far, only the Irregulars and Adori have surpassed Ranker level while still being Regulars. Reaching or surpassing Ranker level while still being a Regular is a heretical feat pretty much. Doom (Top 200 HR) noted that it was absolutely impossible for a Regular to reach the level of a Ranker while he/she is still in the process of climbing. Considering he knows guys like Yama, who are more than likely Top 100 in strength at full power, this statement is pretty telling. It pretty much implies that someone who has the potential to be in the Top 100 has no hope of being Ranker Level while still being a Regular.

Obviously, Baam's companions are still really talented for being Regulars. I don't think there's somebody here who disagrees with this notion, but going with what we know thus far nothing indicates they are as talented as the likes of Maschenny for example, leave alone Adori and the FHs. I would say that the crème de la crème are the Irregulars, followed by Adori and probably the Regular High Rankers that are within the Top 20. Then you should have top Zahard princesses like Maschenny and people with the potential to be within the Top 100 (there may be another tier for Ranks 20-50 depending on how you see it). Baam's companions are probably a level or two below that as well and being generous with them since their current shown feats don't at all compare to Data Maschenny's. That may or may not change in the future though (most likely it will), since their climb is pretty special and there are other factors to take into account. Let's not kid ourselves either, they are also the MC's friends, so they'll most likely get at least a couple of power-ups as the one AA got with the Yeon Flame to keep their relevancy in the future.

They have not been useless in the fights they have been involved with vs rankers and high rankers that was my point, even Baam back in the cage said his team is more than capable to handle themselves vs rankers and high rankers.
Yes Khun was useful because of his mind all this time until last season when he made a vow to become stronger so he too can fight alongside Baam, and ever since then his power has grown leaps and bounds to the point that from the original cast from S1 i doubt anyone of them can beat him in a fight now.

The way Baam's team has been progressing can you seriously say none of them wont be able to beat rankers in the near future.....
You are also forgetting the most important part of the story here, the main cast will always have absurd growth and SIU made this clear by saying that the path Baam's and his team are walking is a completely new path to the tower and no one has walked it before, this was a way for SIU to guarantee Baam's team will grow rapidly because the path they are walking is special to begin with. So people like Doom cant be taken seriously because they base their facts on their own mediocre standards, standards which were shattered in the cage with Rak and Khun being capable vs high rankers.

Like i pointed out, Rak is a special being to begin with so his high talents and his ceiling should be higher than any of those people you listed, Khun came into the tower without every training before and it took him 2 years from being weak to being slightly behind Elaine, after another 2 years he will probably be 2nd only to Baam.
Baam's companions have been shown to be above all those people you listed, who among them was capable of being useful vs high rankers, who among them as C rank regulars could even have the confidence to take on rankers and high rankers? NONE thats who, SIU is making it pretty clear that Baam's team are more special than anyone who has ever come before them, its shocking to me that you cant see this, Baam's team is more special than anyone who has ever come before them, with only Rak probably being more special than even some irregulars, like you pointed out at the end, this team is climbing the tower with a god their achievements and level will surpass that of the irregulars in a short amount of time because they are the main characters of the story.

 

[Shadowlord123]

They have not been useless in the fights they have been involved with vs rankers and high rankers that was my point, even Baam back in the cage said his team is more than capable to handle themselves vs rankers and high rankers.
Yes Khun was useful because of his mind all this time until last season when he made a vow to become stronger so he too can fight alongside Baam, and ever since then his power has grown leaps and bounds to the point that from the original cast from S1 i doubt anyone of them can beat him in a fight now.

They haven't been useless because:

1. They were fighting in a team and...
2. Baam was with them. Even without using 1/10th of his power he's already capable of beating low-level test Rankers like Pan by himself.

It was said very clearly that Daleet could have killed both AA and Rak during the battle but choose not to do so because he's not the type who picks on the weak. You can notice how not even once did AA and Rak tried to engage him directly. They only acted as support.

Spoiler

Yes, Khun AA's power has grown massively since the start of Season 1, more so than pretty much anyone else, but so what? That doesn't mean he'll clearly surpass Ranker Level. I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt against Endorsi in a fight either, so I have my doubts if he could beat everyone not named Baam by now inside the Regulars.

The way Baam's team has been progressing can you seriously say none of them wont be able to beat rankers in the near future.....

Oh, I can say it. Thus far, there are only two kinds of people to reach and surpass Ranker Level: Adori Zahard, the current Commander In Chief of Zahard's army and ranked 7th because of her unfathomable strength, and the Irregulars (Great Warriors, Zahard, Urek and Baam). In Adori's case, she did it when she was just an A-Rank. Doom implied very clearly that even if you have potential to be in the Top 100-200 of High Rankers, there's no way you can reach Ranker Level while you're still climbing. As exceptional as AA has shown to be, Maschenny has a much better pedigree (one of the strongest, if not the strongest shown Branch of the Khun Family + Zahard's blood), hype and feats than him as a Regular (AA was unable to fodderize Baam's sworn enemy, meanwhile Data Maschenny casually destroyed the Big Breeder and blitzed him to an insane degree with just a casual technique and without using Redan) and yet look at her. Top 100. It doesn't really look like she reached that level while she was climbing so I've got no reason to believe that someone with far less hype and feats as AA would be able to easily do so.

You are also forgetting the most important part of the story here, the main cast will always have absurd growth and SIU made this clear by saying that the path Baam's and his team are walking is a completely new path to the tower and no one has walked it before, this was a way for SIU to guarantee Baam's team will grow rapidly because the path they are walking is special to begin with. So people like Doom cant be taken seriously because they base their facts on their own mediocre standards, standards which were shattered in the cage with Rak and Khun being capable vs high rankers.

You keep repeating that Rak and Khun were capable against High Rankers in the Cage, but I fail to remember any single scene that can remotely imply that Rak and AA would be capable of holding their own against High Rankers without being instantly obliterated. Anyways, SIU already stated in one of his S3 blogposts that Rak and AA aren't strong enough to fight Rankers directly, leave alone High Rankers, which is why they had to act as support for Baam, because none of the two is really close to Ranker Level. They have special abilities sure, but none of the two is on that plane of power yet.

Point is, AA and Rak have no reason to reach or surpass Ranker Level in a short amount of time besides being the MC's friends, which is a pretty bad reason if you ask me.

If they become Rankers and reach their peak? They'll be High Rankers for sure, maybe they'll even register in the Top 100-300 being extremely generous. Rak may reach even higher given all that hype about the Ancients.

Doom already saw AA and Rak in the Cage. Tell me, if what he saw had been so mindblowing do you think he would have still said later on that there's no way for a Regular that is still climbing to reach Ranker level?

Like i pointed out, Rak is a special being to begin with so his high talents and his ceiling should be higher than any of those people you listed, Khun came into the tower without every training before and it took him 2 years from being weak to being slightly behind Elaine, after another 2 years he will probably be 2nd only to Baam.
Baam's companions have been shown to be above all those people you listed, who among them was capable of being useful vs high rankers, who among them as C rank regulars could even have the confidence to take on rankers and high rankers? NONE thats who, SIU is making it pretty clear that Baam's team are more special than anyone who has ever come before them, its shocking to me that you cant see this, Baam's team is more special than anyone who has ever come before them, with only Rak probably being more special than even some irregulars, like you pointed out at the end, this team is climbing the tower with a god their achievements and level will surpass that of the irregulars in a short amount of time because they are the main characters of the story.

What? So Rak and AA are or will be BEYOND the Great Warriors in a short amount of time according to you? They have higher potential than them as well?

Sorry to say, but that does look like a massive reach to me, with all due respect. Data Zahard as a D-Rank Regular was pretty much on the Elite Ranker paygrade. His Leviathan granted him greater firepower than average High Rankers since it equalled Stardust, which was able to harm a weakened EoB Kallavan. SIU said that it wasn't sure if all-out Baam could beat Rankers or not and Zahard was equal to him. Data Eduan fought evenly with him and the gap between the two didn't appear to be big at all, besides for Leviathan.

Even if you want to grossly underrate the Great Warriors to this extent, any of them shouldn't have been extremely far from Data Zahard given what we saw of Data Eduan in the Hidden Floor. Any of them as a C-Rank Regular should be more than capable of easily disposing of conventional Rankers, the same Rankers that would destroy Khun and Rak currently unless you want to argue that Zahard and the FHs weren't even remotely close to 10% of Current Baam's power as C-Rank, which is quite ridiculous.

Climbing the Tower with a God doesn't make them Gods. Being the MC's friends won't grant them power beyond the Irregulars in a short amount of time. Doing so would go against everything SIU has established in the story of the Irregulars being special beings that are beyond the ceiling of the Tower residents. It goes without saying that it would be terrible writing ofc, at least that's the way I see it.

 

[balmung77]

They have not been useless in the fights they have been involved with vs rankers and high rankers that was my point, even Baam back in the cage said his team is more than capable to handle themselves vs rankers and high rankers.
Yes Khun was useful because of his mind all this time until last season when he made a vow to become stronger so he too can fight alongside Baam, and ever since then his power has grown leaps and bounds to the point that from the original cast from S1 i doubt anyone of them can beat him in a fight now.

The way Baam's team has been progressing can you seriously say none of them wont be able to beat rankers in the near future.....
You are also forgetting the most important part of the story here, the main cast will always have absurd growth and SIU made this clear by saying that the path Baam's and his team are walking is a completely new path to the tower and no one has walked it before, this was a way for SIU to guarantee Baam's team will grow rapidly because the path they are walking is special to begin with. So people like Doom cant be taken seriously because they base their facts on their own mediocre standards, standards which were shattered in the cage with Rak and Khun being capable vs high rankers.

Like i pointed out, Rak is a special being to begin with so his high talents and his ceiling should be higher than any of those people you listed, Khun came into the tower without every training before and it took him 2 years from being weak to being slightly behind Elaine, after another 2 years he will probably be 2nd only to Baam.
Baam's companions have been shown to be above all those people you listed, who among them was capable of being useful vs high rankers, who among them as C rank regulars could even have the confidence to take on rankers and high rankers? NONE thats who, SIU is making it pretty clear that Baam's team are more special than anyone who has ever come before them, its shocking to me that you cant see this, Baam's team is more special than anyone who has ever come before them, with only Rak probably being more special than even some irregulars, like you pointed out at the end, this team is climbing the tower with a god their achievements and level will surpass that of the irregulars in a short amount of time because they are the main characters of the story.

Yes, I think they can be of help to the rankers and to Baam. But if SIU goes with Khun, Elaine, Hatz or even Ran defeating a ranker later on I think it will hurt the storytelling due to breaking the world building he did before. If they just get strong by talent and training alone, without anything special happening to them that is (and up until now nothing really happened, they are having different experiences, but nothing that justifies setting them apart).

But I think it can be pulled off, they are walking a whole different path, the floor of death, getting trained by Khun, seeing Jahad and now this whole war against the Army, these conflicts make them break the whole "climb to go up and get stronger to climb". They are getting stronger for a bunch of different reasons beyond fighting against simple average regulars and they are getting experience from and with Rankers as D and C regulars.
Up until now, this experience was something special, but not that much, Maschenny had this training before, Elaine had access to high ranker's items, even Ran learned high level skills from Maschenny.
That puts Baam's teammates above the other average regulars now, but not so much better than the Top Regulars at this moment, and this is way behind the best regulars historically speaking (just remember the gap between them and Hansung, Maschenny, Endorsi). So, they need something that really sets them apart from all other regulars before them, the conflicts open room for that, but up until now nothing justifies them being able to defeat rankers when they become A regulars (unless is Rak or Endorsi).

The way I would prefer is of them being of great help to others, Khun, Elaine, Shibisu, Hockney and even Anaak are all great in the support role, like really great, they have the skills to support and help Baam and the rankers in their fights, but not to take the main role. The only ones I think could be in the frontlines by themselves would be Endorsi (as of now) and Rak (later on, because of the inner power he has), I would be critic of all the others in the frontline even as A regulars, but there is possibility for that happening in a justifiable way (without destroying the world he built before too much), I just wouldn't enjoy that much.

About AA, I don't see it that way. He had to train before, he fought Chang, Hatz, Rak... he was strong, above average from the beginning, just not a powerhouse like the crop of the group. It was always difficult for him to create a bang until he discovered his nature, but I don't see him being slightly behind Elaine now, and I don't think he should or could be 2nd to Baam only (in fighting power, not in usefulness), I see him still behind Hatz (due to the weapon, but still) and this is way behind Anaak, Elaine or Ran. To me, he should be behind Ran in strength at all times, but he can be more useful than Ran, as Ran would be pretty much useless in that fight now.

I saw some discussion about Endorsi before, I don't think she is behind GFs princesses in any way, at least I think it wasn't proven in the story so far. I think she will turn out like a special being in the end. I have this feeling that she was special on her own even before becoming a princess (the way she became a princess proves that), just like Kalavan was incredible even before the EoB. And that Jahad's blood works on Endorsi just like the EoB for Kalavan, making these insane talents, who could be HR on their own, be in the Top 200 or 100.

 

[Sanity Check]

Would ppl be mad if Bam's companions entered a hyperbolic time chamber to catch up to him?





Cuz that never happens in manga/manwha.

 

[cash2088]

Would ppl be mad if Bam's companions entered a hyperbolic time chamber to catch up to him?





Cuz that never happens in manga/manwha.

I mean AA is toting Ice and Fire, game of thrones style... No, but really he conveniently has an ice affinity that checks the all consuming “healing” Fire.?!?

Which leads me to the Yeon Fire lore Evenkhell explained.... So it’s obvious AA has the “healing” flame and Ehwa maybe has the “destructive?” But can AA’s flame still burn shit up?? Or only him? Lol

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 7, 2020 ---

I mean the pig wasn’t healing anything..... So does AA designate who he wishes to heal or burn?

I wanna see em burn!!!!!! But by the same token he’ll always be relevant, he can heal..

 

[kkck]

It's likely aguero has access to both types of flames.... Since he got the flame of a famous ranker. But aguero is simply going for the type of flame that suits him best, the type that allows him to hang back and let others do the fighting. If aguero gets to a point where he has to fight we might see more of the flame. Even now we rarely see aguero use his more offensive powers...

 

[hblock]

One of the issues is that ToG, unlike most other works, contains an insane amount of tiers and gaps. Even if you're extremely talented and stand on a whole another level compared to your peers, you can still find some folks who complete outclasses you, who in turn are literal fodders compared to some higher class beings, etc and the list goes on.

If we take D-class regulars are an example. We've already got Sachi as a top-3 among the tens of hundred millions (or maybe even billions) of D-class regulars. As such, you can say that he standout as "la crème de la crème" as noted in upper posts. Regardless, Elaine, who is also a top-3 D-class, was portrayed to stand on a whole another league and the amount of difficulty she gave Baam even with the Thorn was a major proof of her powers. In fact, this same Elaine is still weaker than Shilial and Lilial who were widely known as the strongest among the top-3 D-class (which is normal since they're princesses from the 10 GFs).

Now, the gaps were even more visible in the hidden floor when we got the D-class version of multiple future top 300 HRs. Just by listing their feats, we can already notice the massive gaps between "extremely" talented ("la crème de la crème) indivduals themslves :

-Endorsi : she was seen running away from the giant soldier even with the help of Hansung, struddling against a champion villain due to his great durability and shinsu resistance. Thorn Baam, Hansung and Endorsi needed to combine their powers to beat the statue of good and evil.

-Khun+Sachi+Rak+Boro+Hockney : even as a team, they were struggling a lot against the giant octopus and only neutralized him because of the environmental advantage since there was a whole in which they could trap him in the nearby area. Otherwise, they were just overwhelmed by his insane power and speed.

-Khun Marco Asencio : future branch head of the Khun family (so top 300 HR most likely), he defeated Chrome cutter who was noted to stand on a whole another level compared to the octupus that Khun+Sachi+Rak+Boro+Hockney struggled against. What's more so, he defeated it very easily without even using his true skills (the flying fish spear) which represent his signature name in the future as a HR.
Asencio also fought the Big Breeder Jeok on equal terms. As we know, the big breeders were like gods or admins in the hidden floor and controled everything in there. So, either the chrome cutter, the giant octopus, the giant solider, the statue of good and devil or anything these "top-notch" regulars fought and had a hard time against (either individually or as a group) are fodder tier in front of Asencio.
In fact, even among the big breeders themselves, there're gaps, Chung was noted to be much weaker than Jeok who in turn is much weaker than Yellow. Asencio fighting on par with the second strongest of them is an insanely huge feat.

-Yu Hansung : he once died to the stone general, which represents just a part of the big breeder Jeok's arsenal and even with the help of Khun AA, he still noted that their best shot was to run away when facing it. Said otherwise, Hansung + Khun combined were literal fodders compared to Asencio in a direct fight. It also shows the massive difference separaing a future standad HR compared to a top 300 potentiality.

-Maschenny : she one shotted the big breeder Jeok in base with Asencio admitting that he pales in comparision. With Redan, she got multiple times stronger and faster. Yet, there was still a bottomless gap between her and Jahad or the 10 FHs at the same stage.

Overall the hidden floor is a great arc for showing the large amount of gaps and tiers between top regulars themselves. And it makes sens, it's not like top folks with top 300 potentiality will show themselves in every area. Only 300 or so emerged to be this strong in the whole several tens of thousands of years of the Jahad's empire after all, yet there're still bottomless gaps even among the these same top 300.

We also have a great grasp of their potentiality if they follow a traditional tower climb and grew for at least several thousands of years as Rankers :
-Standard High Ranker potentiality : Yu Hansung
-"Maybe" a bit more than standard HR : Endorsi (SIU noted that she is warm and human compared to other princesses)

(extremely massive, bottomeless gap)

-top 300 HR : Asencio, Icardi

(massive gap)

-one of the strongest princesses who own a 13 month : Maschenny

(extremely massive, bottomeless gap)
-Jahad and the 10 GFs.

Also, there's a doubt whether or not even someone like Sachi has a "low HR" potential, unlike the others, he grew for at least 600 years to reach his current level. In fact, there's a very low chance of it. Just because he's a top-3 D-class, it still doesn't imply he can become a HR in the future. There're only 1000 HR and mathematically speaking, if all top regulars of each class (F to A) have to become HR in the future, we should've had faaaaaar more than just 1000 HRs within the whole tens of thousands of history of the Jahad empire.
Which is yet another proof that being "la crème de la crème" amoung your peers isn't even remotely enough as a proof for having just this much potential, entry HR level, folks like Khul Nissame Kay or Dorian Frog, that is.

Khun and Rak were certainly top-notch regulars, that's for sure, but they weren't even strong enough to be called top-5 E-class or top-3 D-class, SIU kind implied that in a blogpost :
"There aren't really many regulars with the highest level of combat skill other than Baam, Endorsi, and Sachi in team Baam...
In Khun's case, he becomes OP if he uses Enna Core, but that should be regarded as an exception"
Source
Said otherwise, If they just followed their normal climb, even dreaming of an entry HR was impossible for them and would wreck the power balance that SIU built so far.

As we know, Maschenny, Yasratcha, Doom, Yamah, etc, all of them were still

Yes, certainly both Khun and Rak had a huge power up in the hidden floor, they discovered qualities fitting them, exceptional qualities at that, but for them to jump to even entry Ranker level like that. Maybe it's a little bit rought, but that'd be a bullshit, a terribly bad writing.

As we know, even Doom, someone who was top 200 in his prime and knew at least two top 100 in power (Yamah and Yasratcha), said that it's absolutly impossible for a regular to beat a Ranker, no matter how strong he is. And as we know, only Adori, a single digit in the ranking, and irregulars managed to do this much while climbing the tower. what's more, this same Adori only managed to beat a Ranker as a fucking A-class regular and is considered to stand on a whole another level compared to other princesses (Maschenny included).
Said otherwise, Maschenny as a regular on the 133rd floor was still total fodder to low level Rankers like Pan.

Was learning shinsu qualities such a huge power up for Rak and Khun that they become even remotely close to D-class Data Maschenny ? As we know, Maschenny already learned about a quality fitting her ages ago (lightening spear) and she could apply it in both forms (both internal and external quality control), what's more so she is a Jahad princess from the 10 GFs. Both her background and displayed power doesn't suggest that Khun and Rak, even with their qualities, became somehow comparable to her in power.
This same Maschenny was still fodder compared to Pan even after climbing like 90 floors as a regular (since clearing the hell train).
It may be a little rought but it's not a mere 2 years-growth that would allow them to even become remotely close to the weakest Ranker in existence. 2 years is nothing more than a glimps of the eye in tower :
-"5 years in the Tower is not long at all". Source

-"Also, 6 years is not a long time in the Tower. To us it's about 1-2 years ? There are fewer days in the year and people live longer, so time feels different. As people become Rankers, the difference in their perception of time gets even bigger.". Source

-"Because the flow of time is so long in Tower of God, 1 or 2 years might seem as if it's nothing, and that's true. To Regulars, 1 or 2 years isn't that great of a time period. Actually after they have become E-rank Regulars, there are plenty of those who hippity hop play around 3-40 years until they take the test again.". Source
Let alone as C-class regulars, more especially in Khun's case who was asleep (in a coma state) all the time.

Now, as noted above, maybe SIU can pull up some power ups out of nowhere (like the Yeon flame for Khun), but this sounds false already. As if he just distributes random and free buffs in a clumsy way just to make them relevant somehow in the main cast.
Well, maybe SIU can play with the ancient status of Rak, something like "most of his power was sealed crap" to justify a sudden growth but for Khun, nothing comes to mind and it would be very very difficult to come up with something tangible as far as I'm concerned.

As for the "walking a completly new path" matter, that only applies to Baam, not his friends it's not like Khun, Rak and the others were incdluded in Hwaryun's statement.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Would ppl be mad if Bam's companions entered a hyperbolic time chamber to catch up to him?





Cuz that never happens in manga/manwha.

I actually wouldn't mind that. There are a lot of items who are yet to be seen. SIU has never specified the limits of what can be done and what cannot be done with items. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of S grade item or above that acted as some sort of hyperbolic time chamber. Maybe they could have special beings like Baek Ryun or some other HR people training them. That way, it could be plausible for the main cast to reach their full potential even before becoming Rankers. Given how the Zahard Empire is already targeting them, I don't think they would be able to reach the 134th Floor and pass the last test there without being killed or arrested, so they'll have to get strong through other means. Either:

1. SIU starts to hand free power-ups as the one AA got with the Yeon Flame, which, depending on how it is done it would be incredibly BS. The one AA got with the Yeon Flame already didn't amuse me too much.
2. Baam somehow shares some of his power to them. From what we've seen, Fully-Fledged Irregulars appear to be capable of handling abilities that act as power-ups for pretty much free. De Jah and De Sah got eyes that were capable of reading fate just from seeing Enryu fight. Gustang brought Rachel from the brink of death and gave her a strange power that acted as a protector for her with just a gaze.
3. Via some OP items (this one would be the case I was talking about previously).

Though even with that I doubt they would be able to catch up to him at all. Baam would probably take part in that kind of Hyperbolic Time Chamber training as well.

 

[shaheer]

Well if SIU want to delve in side plot about characters dating i guess Koon will be the guy for Yihwa. She has terrible fire power which is destructive while koons one is healing along with ice power which can also control and regulate her flame.