One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[XXGenesis]

@M3J @Shinigami769 @eefrit
If Luffy went up against a Haki user or a swordsman or an energy blast user with a doriki of 4000 (or whatever 4000 becomes after hybrid boost) he would have died, the only reason he could beat Lucci was because he was a physical brawler, a type of fighter that is at a disadvantage against a rubber man.

Heck in Thriller Bark, we see Sanzen Sekai doing as much damage to Oars as G3.

In Sabaody, G2 Luffy, DJ Sanji and Base Zoro were portrayed as equals against the pacifista.

Lol, you are creating what if circumstances, that are heavily bias or unfavorable towards Luffy.

If you would like to see such perception of a certain character; as a fan you can create a VS thread and let your imagination run wild. But you are denying the What Is of the manga under some type of bias.

Luffy didn’t go up against someone like that, & If the creator of the story wanted Luffy to defeat someone like that; he would make him do so simple. By writing the story such a way.

 

[LadyVados]

Lol, you are creating what if circumstances, that are heavily bias or unfavorable towards Luffy.

If you would like to see such perception of a certain character; as a fan you can create a VS thread and let your imagination run wild. But you are denying the What Is of the manga under some type of bias.

Luffy didn’t go up against someone like that, & If the creator of the story wanted Luffy to defeat someone like that; he would make him do so simple. By writing the story such a way.

All I’m trying to say is that Luffy was a bad match-up for Lucci, which he was.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2020 ---

"If Luffy wasn't made of Rubber..."

Because Being made of rubber won’t help him against a swordsman or Post-TS where everyone has Haki. It only helped him against Lucci because he was a physical brawler without Haki, the only better match-up Luffy has had in the entire manga was Enel.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020 ---

yeah but you can take that kind of argument and use it against Zoro that he would have been screwed against the rust guy in Ennies lobby just as much.

I agree with this. Matchups are matchups

 

[M3J]

Luffy was not a bad matchup for Lucci, they were good, and if it weren't for Usopp, Luffy might not have won. If you want to play it like that, then Zoro without his swords would have lost to most, if not all, opponents as he was in some way unable to hurt them, like against Mr. 2.

Also, if Luffy's haki is better, he should be able to deal with attacks from swordsmen.

 

[The Prince of Darkness]

Saying something like "if Luffy wasn't made of rubber" is like saying "if Zoro hadn't learn 3 swords swordmanship" or "if Sanji wasn't raised by Zeref [that's his name?])"... and I can go on for all characters.
It's dumb and not a valid argument for anything. It's void !

 

[LadyVados]

and if it weren't for Usopp, Luffy might not have won.

So if you think Luffy was weaker than Lucci and only won because of Usopp’s help why are we even having this discussion.

 

[Pirate Queen]

So if you think Luffy was weaker than Lucci and only won because of Usopp’s help why are we even having this discussion.

Because it has everything to do with willpower and nothing to do with matchups.

 

[LadyVados]

Well if it’s all about willpower and not strength, speed or match-ups then I guess Portgas D Rouge and Zoro are the strongest characters in the verse since they have the strongest willpower in the verse.

East Blue Zoro beats Kaido I guess because he has stronger willpower according to your logic. Who cares about strength or speed or Haki. Willpower is where it’s at.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Well if it’s all about willpower and not strength, speed or match-ups then I guess Portgas D Rouge and Zoro are the strongest characters in the verse since they have the strongest willpower in the verse.

East Blue Zoro beats Kaido I guess because he has stronger willpower according to your logic. Who cares about strength or speed or Haki. Willpower is where it’s at.

Those are opinions.

We went from a fight between 2 equal opponents (Luffy and Lucci) to East Blue Zoro vs Kaido.

Clearly power levels come into play if you have 2 fighters in vastly different tiers. (See Luffy vs Aokiji or Zoro vs Mihawk)

Why must we all hold you hand through these arguements?

 

[Nie Li]

Didn’t the chapter with Hyougoro imply Zoro used Advanced Armament back in Alabsta ?

I'll answer this here, to avoid going off topic on the weekly thread.

How so? I find it hard to believe but since it's the first time I'm hearing this I want to know what the argument for this is.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I'll answer this here, to avoid going off topic on the weekly thread.

How so? I find it hard to believe but since it's the first time I'm hearing this I want to know what the argument for this is.

Zoro used an early version of advanced haki. The breath of all things is basically a prerequisite to Advanced CoA. Wano Residents just consider it CoA(Basic).

For swordsmen, Ryou or advanced CoA is basic haki because that's thats how they are taught. Hygo explained it during Luffys Udon training. It was the chapter that revealed Luffy's CoA is above even Ryou or Advanced CoA. Basically Lufy is learned highly Avanced CoA while Swordsmen just learn Advanced CoA

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2020 ---

Weapon users need to know how to coat an object with haki (breath of all things, advanced CoA, Ryou) whereas brawlers and none weapon users don't need to be burdened with using advanced haki until needed

 

[Nie Li]

Zoro used an early version of advanced haki. The breath of all things is basically a prerequisite to Advanced CoA. Wano Residents just consider it CoA(Basic).

For swordsmen, Ryou or advanced CoA is basic haki because that's thats how they are taught. Hygo explained it during Luffys Udon training. It was the chapter that revealed Luffy's CoA is above even Ryou or Advanced CoA. Basically Lufy is learned highly Avanced CoA while Swordsmen just learn Advanced CoA

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2020 ---

Weapon users need to know how to coat an object with haki (breath of all things, advanced CoA, Ryou) whereas brawlers and none weapon users don't need to be burdened with using advanced haki until needed

So "advanced armament" in the sense of black armament, right? Not in the sense of emission and/or internal destruction.

 

[Pirate Queen]

So "advanced armament" in the sense of black armament, right? Not in the sense of emission and/or internal destruction.

Black armament is just denser coa in its most basic form. Black haki isn't advanced its just the density of the haki.

Emission/blast/ barrier haki is advanced.

Internal damage is the level above that

 

[slavkovski]

Black armament is just denser coa in its most basic form. Black haki isn't advanced its just the density of the haki.

Emission/blast/ barrier haki is advanced.

Internal damage is the level above that

So.. in what category is what zoro did to monet when he cut her cheek from far away? emission?

And what rayleigh & luffy did with the cuff in the neck that they broke from camie & in the udon (luffy & hyogoro)? the internal damage one?

So if that two are correct can we assume that if a swordsman, let say zoro, could just cut off the cuff with his sword & haki and not only internaly damage it to break it, it means he are also already using the highest level?

 

[Shasha23]

So.. in what category is what zoro did to monet when he cut her cheek from far away? emission?

And what rayleigh & luffy did with the cuff in the neck that they broke from camie & in the udon (luffy & hyogoro)? the internal damage one?

So if that two are correct can we assume that if a swordsman, let say zoro, could just cut off the cuff with his sword & haki and not only internaly damage it to break it, it means he are also already using the highest level?

Zoro knows advanced CoA, he since he was able to cut Monet he can emit haki out of his body

What Raleigh and Luffy are doing is a level above just emitting haki out of your body, they are directing in into another person or object to destroy it from within which is a level above what Zoro is doing, Hyogoro is not using what Rayleigh and Luffy are using, he is emitting haki outwards just like Zoro

Sure Zoro can probably cut the cuffs off, yes Zoro has been using an advanced form of haki from the beginning but what Luffy just learned and practiced is 1 step higher than that.

But for swordsman its questionable if they need to learn how to damage from within or if there is another form higher than just emission which swordsman can learn (i believe Oden used this higher level of CoA to damage Kaido)

 

[M3J]

So if you think Luffy was weaker than Lucci and only won because of Usopp’s help why are we even having this discussion.

??

Because you keep bringing up Luffy's fruit while it's his willpower that makes him powerful and dangerous, not just his fruit. I've long since said that Luffy has often been weaker than his enemies and won mostly through willpower.

Well if it’s all about willpower and not strength, speed or match-ups then I guess Portgas D Rouge and Zoro are the strongest characters in the verse since they have the strongest willpower in the verse.

East Blue Zoro beats Kaido I guess because he has stronger willpower according to your logic. Who cares about strength or speed or Haki. Willpower is where it’s at.

Clearly they're all important, but willpower makes a huge difference. You can't claim Zoro's the strongest character via willpower and not include Luffy there, as he's known for having an insane stamina/life force and the will to win no matter what. Zoro's swords are what gives him notoriety, not his willpower.

 

[Fox666]

Zoro knows advanced CoA, he since he was able to cut Monet he can emit haki out of his body

That's just a flying slash with Haki. I presume it's not different from using Haki on an arrow.

 

[slavkovski]

That's just a flying slash with Haki. I presume it's not different from using Haki on an arrow.

Using Haki on a arrow are different with what zoro do, unless if zoro throw his sword to the enemy

 

[Shasha23]

That's just a flying slash with Haki. I presume it's not different from using Haki on an arrow.

Did Monet a logia impervious to attacks get cut or not?
Being able to use haki outside your body and letting it flow out is what ryou is!

 

[HereNThere]

That's just a flying slash with Haki. I presume it's not different from using Haki on an arrow.

It's the simplest explanation. The mechanics of a flying slash hasn't been fully explained, but since Zoro has been using it since before the time skip, I think we can say that it isn't reliant on haki. It's a swordman's projectile technique and it can be coated with haki, like an arrow or bullet. Brook is using them too and we know he has yet to demonstrate haki.

Enma's whole deal is forcing Zoro to understand Ryou, implying that he wasn't using advanced haki. His training was juxtaposed with Luffy's, who was learning the same thing.

 

[Fox666]

What are you guys talking about?

Didn't Sanji heard a woman screaming?

Luffy thinking it was CoO was a joke.