Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[King Moe]

wrong analogy there. In fact in WCI, we saw pudding could injure reiju with candy bullets (perospero power). So there is some foreshadowing on the conflict between vinsmoke (sanji) and perospero

Not really. Why would that push anything especially Sanji not going to defend anything about Germa even with Reiju. Doesn't make sense and not personal either. That just forcing something if your using Pudding who is now an ally and in love with Sanji. Not making sense there.

King and Queen are more likely to fight with given hints and purpose is to face and beat Beast Pirates, so he would go after ones who are most threats to Momo.

 

[XXGenesis]

Sanjji needs a commander fight.

He should get a match up agaisnt Queen.

Sanji needs to be power scailed much higher than he is currently. If he defeats Queen, it'll put him above Xdake & seemingly Apoo. But still under the other SN who made it to the rooftop

 

[King Moe]

Sanjji needs a commander fight.

He should get a match up agaisnt Queen.

Sanji needs to be power scailed much higher than he is currently. If he defeats Queen, it'll put him above Xdake & seemingly Apoo. But still under the other SN who made it to the rooftop

I mean he is already above Drake and Apoo. If Anime (Whether you believe it is Canon or Non-Canon on the scene) have him over Drake. Actually beating King or Queen would put him on same level as SN on top. Though in the tier with Zoro and Killer.

He is Luffy's Commanders, so will be reaching new stage of power to show he is YC lvl.

 

[Nie Li]

I mean he is already above Drake and Apoo. If Anime (Whether you believe it is Canon or Non-Canon on the scene) have him over Drake. Actually beating King or Queen would put him on same level as SN on top. Though in the tier with Zoro and Killer.

He is Luffy's Commanders, so will be reaching new stage of power to show he is YC lvl.

We cannot say that, because don't know how Zoro, Killer and King's strength compares to each other. The only thing we know for sure is that Zoro and Killer aren't in the same tier.

We also don't know if Sanji is stronger than Apoo or Drake. He may be stronger, but he has only demonstrated to be on Drake's tier so far in the manga, as they were pretty evenly matched when they fought. In fact, in anything, Drake seemed to have the upper hand, but neither of them went all out so it doesn't mean much.

We cannot say Sanji is certainly stronger than them because you cannot use anime-only stuff as canon.

 

[King Moe]

We cannot say that, because don't know how Zoro, Killer and King's strength compares to each other. The only thing we know for sure is that Zoro and Killer aren't in the same tier.

We also don't know if Sanji is stronger than Apoo or Drake. He may be stronger, but he has only demonstrated to be on Drake's tier so far in the manga, as they were pretty evenly matched when they fought. In fact, in anything, Drake seemed to have the upper hand, but neither of them went all out so it doesn't mean much.

We cannot say Sanji is certainly stronger than them because you cannot use anime-only stuff as canon.

I mean you can't push team fight to say SN especially Zoro and Killer they can beat YC easily especially King or Queen who still haven't use their full power despite fighting Macro. Beating them in a fight will put you on same level as ones on Rooftop. 1 on 1 fights are another design.

Not really. It is clear Sanji is above Drake and Apoo given he beaten another T6H and they kinda around or bit stronger. Plus abilities Sanji is stronger than them and can fight them off.

Not talking like that, but just saying if Staff felt like Sanji is over Drake and animate it like that regardless how we see it Canon or something. It does valued he is someone Supernova level. Given he tanked Full Zoan King and came back fine, shows he heading to next stage of power in being YC lvl with Zoro.

 

[Nie Li]

I mean you can't push team fight to say SN especially Zoro and Killer they can beat YC easily especially King or Queen who still haven't use their full power despite fighting Macro. Beating them in a fight will put you on same level as ones on Rooftop. 1 on 1 fights are another design.

The thing is that "the ones on the rooftop" aren't all on the same level. Killer is below Zoro. We don't know if King is on Killer's or Zoro's level. Perhaps he's even stronger than both.

Not really. It is clear Sanji is above Drake and Apoo given he beaten another T6H and they kinda around or bit stronger. Plus abilities Sanji is stronger than them and can fight them off.

You also cannot say that. We didn't see Sanji defeat Page One in the manga, and Page One isn't necessarily as strong as X Drake.

Not talking like that, but just saying if Staff felt like Sanji is over Drake and animate it like that regardless how we see it Canon or something. It does valued he is someone Supernova level. Given he tanked Full Zoan King and came back fine, shows he heading to next stage of power in being YC lvl with Zoro.

Withstanding that attack only proves that his durability with the RS is very high. That doesn't mean he's on par with King on his other stats or that he can injure him.

I'm not saying Sanji can't defeat King, but going only by what he has shown so far, there are no evidences to say that they're on the same level.

 

[King Moe]

The thing is that "the ones on the rooftop" aren't all on the same level. Killer is below Zoro. We don't know if King is on Killer's or Zoro's level. Perhaps he's even stronger than both.


You also cannot say that. We didn't see Sanji defeat Page One in the manga, and Page One isn't necessarily as strong as X Drake.


Withstanding that attack only proves that his durability with the RS is very high. That doesn't mean he's on par with King on his other stats or that he can injure him.

I'm not saying Sanji can't defeat King, but going only by what he has shown so far, there are no evidences to say that they're on the same level.

Being in team fight doesn't mean you can easily beat YC. They are YC lvl while Luffy, Kidd, and Law a bit above that. Though doesn't mean they beat YC easily either. Zoro and Killer will struggle to fight YC.

PO was defeated. There is no doubt on that. He never came back for mission and only came 2 weeks later for Fire Festival. Sanji's attitude in manga inserts he beat him given he show no worry about him. That is debunked. Trying find another idea what happen doesn't make sense given on what we saw. T6H are around same level. No one been show stronger than another from what we seen. Staff still animate him to be more than Drake. Not saying it is Canon or something, but it shows Sanji is very much shown above T6H lvl and being YC lvl as next stage of power by those who could have work it something else, but show the animation.

If he tanked King and block attacks from him and come back fine, that's a pretty big deal. We should aspect every Strawhat to get stronger this arc.

 

[Nie Li]

Being in team fight doesn't mean you can easily beat YC. They are YC lvl while Luffy, Kidd, and Law a bit above that. Though doesn't mean they beat YC easily either. Zoro and Killer will struggle to fight YC in a fight.

PO was defeated. There is no doubt on that. He never came back for mission and only came 2 weeks later for Fire Festival. Sanji's attitude in manga inserts he beat him given he show no worry about him. That is debunked. Trying find another idea what happen doesn't make sense given on what we saw. T6H are around same level. No one been show stronger than another from what we seen. Staff still animate him to be more than Drake. Not saying it is Canon or something, but it shows Sanji is very much shown above T6H lvl and being YC lvl as next stage of power by those who could have work it something else, but show the animation.

If he tanked King and block attacks from him and come back fine, that's a pretty big deal. We should aspect every Strawhat to get stronger this arc.

Regarding the bolded part: It's not canon, so it shows nothing.

 

[King Moe]

Regarding the bolded part: It's not canon, so it shows nothing.

I know how you feel on it. Not saying whether it is canon or something. Talk is that they could have animate another way, but went with what we saw. Whether who we see in the fight, Sanji has shown interaction to be respected and have power that can be Supernova. Plus Sanji will be reaching YC lvl, so we have to aknowledge this arc is new development on the Strawhats on new stage of power.

 

[Nie Li]

I know how you feel on it. Not saying whether it is canon or something. Talk is that they could have animate another way, but went with what we saw. Whether who we see in the fight, Sanji has shown interaction to be respected and have power that can be Supernova. Plus Sanji will be reaching YC lvl, so we have to aknowledge this arc is new development on the Strawhats on new stage of power.

They could have also animated Sanji defeating Page One but they animated him running away. If you cherrypick "what the animators wanted to show", yes, Sanji would already have demonstrated to be above YC level already, but I could so easily cherrypick "what the animators wanted to show" to demonstrate Sanji is below Tobi Roppo level.

Nobody says Sanji isn't reaching YC level or that he can't possibly defeat Queen or King, what I'm saying is that you have to stop using the anime to make points.

 

[King Moe]

They could have also animated Sanji defeating Page One but they animated him running away. If you cherrypick "what the animators wanted to show", yes, Sanji would already have demonstrated to be above YC level already, but I could so easily cherrypick "what the animators wanted to show" to demonstrate Sanji is below Tobi Roppo level.

Nobody says Sanji isn't reaching YC level or that he can't possibly defeat Queen or King, what I'm saying is that you have to stop using the anime to make points.

Not cherry pick. Not every moment of filler is Canon. Some are and some not. More obvious on Sanji vs Drake given after that episode talks of Oda and Staff on extending scenes like flashback, so just saying whether We believe Canon or something, Sanji shown above level of T6H. PO never came back in the manga and show no concern to him. 'Runaway' really isn't there given attitude he sees him again.

Not using it Canon. Just saying he will be above notable enemies given the next stage of power. If you don't think that then you know arc is making everyone stronger. So him able to handle Drake and Apoo isn't something Headcannon given the hints to face King or Queen on showing more on YC lvl.

 

[catagon87]

Being in team fight doesn't mean you can easily beat YC. They are YC lvl while Luffy, Kidd, and Law a bit above that. Though doesn't mean they beat YC easily either. Zoro and Killer will struggle to fight YC.

PO was defeated. There is no doubt on that. He never came back for mission and only came 2 weeks later for Fire Festival. Sanji's attitude in manga inserts he beat him given he show no worry about him. That is debunked. Trying find another idea what happen doesn't make sense given on what we saw. T6H are around same level. No one been show stronger than another from what we seen. Staff still animate him to be more than Drake. Not saying it is Canon or something, but it shows Sanji is very much shown above T6H lvl and being YC lvl as next stage of power by those who could have work it something else, but show the animation.

If he tanked King and block attacks from him and come back fine, that's a pretty big deal. We should aspect every Strawhat to get stronger this arc.

You need to pick a lane and stick with it. You can't cite the anime as a source of "Sanji defeating X-Drake" (which never happened in the manga), then say Sanji defeated Page One. This is the anime version of the page one fight. Note that he got up, completely unharmed after Sanji's final attack. Sanji simply escaped, and PO angrily yelled at him. You can't have your cake and eat it too in a debate. The things you are claiming are indeed mutually exclusive based on your source of evidence. So Sanji either defeated Drake (because it happened in the anime) and did not defeat Page One (because it clearly did not happen in the video I showed you of their fight's conclusion) OR Sanji "maybe" defeated Page One. We never saw an unconscious body of PO, even in the manga, and never even got anything anecdotal such as him being berated by his fellow TF6 like we got when Sanji defeated Yonji.

 

[King Moe]

You need to pick a lane and stick with it. You can't cite the anime as a source of "Sanji defeating X-Drake" (which never happened in the manga), then say Sanji defeated Page One. This is the anime version of the page one fight. Note that he got up, completely unharmed after Sanji's final attack. Sanji simply escaped, and PO angrily yelled at him. You can't have your cake and eat it too in a debate. The things you are claiming are indeed mutually exclusive based on your source of evidence. So Sanji either defeated Drake (because it happened in the anime) and did not defeat Page One (because it clearly did not happen in the video I showed you of their fight's conclusion) OR Sanji "maybe" defeated Page One. We never saw an unconscious body of PO, even in the manga, and never even got anything anecdotal such as him being berated by his fellow TF6 like we got when Sanji defeated Yonji.

From what we know, the Staff are in taljs with Oda extending scenes recently after Sanji vs Drake fight. Not saying every scene is canon, but certain ones are especially they could have done the fight in another way, but shows Sanji over Drake. Not really picking and choosing especially when in the manga when Sanji saw PO again, he has no concern for him and never mention issues on him. Pretty sure heavily implied he defeated him.

Also we know he still overpowered either T6H without much. That still more on his favor as Luffy didn't knockout PO when using G4, but we know Luffy is stronger than him given we know he didn't go full power either.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

From what we know, the Staff are in taljs with Oda extending scenes recently after Sanji vs Drake fight. Not saying every scene is canon, but certain ones are especially they could have done the fight in another way, but shows Sanji over Drake. Not really picking and choosing especially when in the manga when Sanji saw PO again, he has no concern for him and never mention issues on him. Pretty sure heavily implied he defeated him.

Also we know he still overpowered either T6H without much. That still more on his favor as Luffy didn't knockout PO when using G4, but we know Luffy is stronger than him given we know he didn't go full power either.

unless you are part of the staff who works with oda directly, anything you said is headcanon.
Anyway, sanji hadn't shown to be capable to fight YC1 like king. And seemed more like sanji would fight queen (with chopper) or kanjuro by himself

 

[King Moe]

unless you are part of the staff who works with oda directly, anything you said is headcanon.
Anyway, sanji hadn't shown to be capable to fight YC1 like king. And seemed more like sanji would fight queen (with chopper) or kanjuro by himself

Then them posting on Twitter for everyone to see is 'headcannon' then? Got check on situation before getting involve .

He has already when he block and tanked King's attacks. He going to be on YC status as everyone reach new stage of power. Also stop with rest of the talk. Kanjuro vs Kinemon is the fight going to happen and Chopper won't face Queen, but think someone else will.

 

[Fox666]

wrong analogy there. In fact in WCI, we saw pudding could injure reiju with candy bullets (perospero power). So there is some foreshadowing on the conflict between vinsmoke (sanji) and perospero

I find that a weird conclusion

Is there any indication Perosperos created these bullets? They build houses of chocolate in Whole Cake Island, guns with candy bullets isn't strange at all

Any characters above a certain level should be capable of defeating the Vinsmoke, in fact even Sanji defeated Yonji before

 

[Nie Li]

From what we know, the Staff are in taljs with Oda extending scenes recently after Sanji vs Drake fight. Not saying every scene is canon, but certain ones are especially they could have done the fight in another way, but shows Sanji over Drake. Not really picking and choosing especially when in the manga when Sanji saw PO again, he has no concern for him and never mention issues on him. Pretty sure heavily implied he defeated him.

Also we know he still overpowered either T6H without much. That still more on his favor as Luffy didn't knockout PO when using G4, but we know Luffy is stronger than him given we know he didn't go full power either.

Of course you don't say "every scene is canon", you say only scenes in whìch Sanji wins are canon.

Please, stop that. We've already talked over that enough times.

Also, Luffy never attacked Page One with G4. Luffy used G3 and he dealt more damage to him than Sanji did.

 

[catagon87]

From what we know, the Staff are in taljs with Oda extending scenes recently after Sanji vs Drake fight. Not saying every scene is canon, but certain ones are especially they could have done the fight in another way, but shows Sanji over Drake. Not really picking and choosing especially when in the manga when Sanji saw PO again, he has no concern for him and never mention issues on him. Pretty sure heavily implied he defeated him.

Also we know he still overpowered either T6H without much. That still more on his favor as Luffy didn't knockout PO when using G4, but we know Luffy is stronger than him given we know he didn't go full power either.

You don't have the liberty to cherry-pick your data like that. You can of course post what you want, but picking scenes that make Sanji look good and throwing it out there as cannon, then ignoring scenes that don't even necessarily do the opposite is not the proper way to construct a solid argument.

To clarify: I don't think Sanji is weak and I don't think the Sanji vs P1 fight made Sanji look bad in the anime. I honestly think Sanji could defeat him for sure, but didn't have time to, because he's a sturdy-as-hell ancient Zoan user. Claiming Sanji defeated him when it clearly didn't happen doesn't do any favors. I don't think anyone actually thinks P1 could defeat Sanji (especially in RAID suit form); I more think that people just suspect with Drake out and about too, the enemy knowing of / where Sanji was with approximate accuracy, and the war coming in a couple weeks that Sanji evaluated his options, and hit P1 with an attack that gave him an opening to escape.

(Edit) Just another note - I don't think anyone is going to quickly defeat an upper tier ancient zoan who doesn't have Luffy / Big Mom / Kaido's level of attack power now. Luffy probably could AS OF CHAPTER 1010. Not before.

 

[XXGenesis]

Why is this kid so dense?
Nobody is getting Pawned...but You Moe...FacePalm

I’ve never seen Sanji execute as much force or damage as a G3 attack....Pre or Post time skip......It’s Sanji’s biggest weakness how much destructive power he can dish out.

G3 Luffy Punch >> RS Sanji boosted Air kick.
1 K.O P1...The other hit multiple times and only inflicted mid damage.

 

[King Moe]

Of course you don't say "every scene is canon", you say only scenes in whìch Sanji wins are canon.

Please, stop that. We've already talked over that enough times.

Also, Luffy never attacked Page One with G4. Luffy used G3 and he dealt more damage to him than Sanji did.

Nah, just going by evidence especially the timing of the post.

Sure thing, but wasn't first one to talk about Anime here.

Sorry typo, I mean G3. Also not really given PO came back to fighting and this is one who has Adv. COA and he didn't defeat him while he went. By that logic we shouldn't push Luffy handling Kaido if PO still active. Just stating on how he discuss it as we both know Luffy and Sanji would beat PO with ease to be honest.

You don't have the liberty to cherry-pick your data like that. You can of course post what you want, but picking scenes that make Sanji look good and throwing it out there as cannon, then ignoring scenes that don't even necessarily do the opposite is not the proper way to construct a solid argument.

To clarify: I don't think Sanji is weak and I don't think the Sanji vs P1 fight made Sanji look bad in the anime. I honestly think Sanji could defeat him for sure, but didn't have time to, because he's a sturdy-as-hell ancient Zoan user. Claiming Sanji defeated him when it clearly didn't happen doesn't do any favors. I don't think anyone actually thinks P1 could defeat Sanji (especially in RAID suit form); I more think that people just suspect with Drake out and about too, the enemy knowing of / where Sanji was with approximate accuracy, and the war coming in a couple weeks that Sanji evaluated his options, and hit P1 with an attack that gave him an opening to escape.

(Edit) Just another note - I don't think anyone is going to quickly defeat an upper tier ancient zoan who doesn't have Luffy / Big Mom / Kaido's level of attack power now. Luffy probably could AS OF CHAPTER 1010. Not before.

I am not picking and choosing scenes on Sanji unlike you picking and choosing scenes to say he didn't do something helpful when he did. If I want to pick and choose scene, I could have stated about Sanji fighting off Oven and Daifuku at same time, but not talking about that. Just timing of when Staff stated on Twitter they been talking to Oda about extending scenes and it was soon after Sanji vs Drake fight when upcoming flashback was being talk about. The timing of that talk and episode make sense on Oda giving blessing about that fight as again it could have been something else, but instead they have Sanji over Drake.

Thing is PO never came back and he was given a mission to go after Sanji and after the fight only Drake and Hawkins were only ones. It heavily implying he beat him especially when he saw PO again and so no concern for him. It is really odd he didn't come back if he was 'active', but more like he wasn't active though.

True, but just saying by same logic few been using, Luffy couldn't beat PO if he choose to leave and not knock him out. So by that logic, why is he facing Kaido? You don't need to knockout an opponent every time to know characters were over them. Luffy and Sanji weren't even using full power and still dominated over PO.

Why is this kid so dense?
Nobody is getting Pawned...but You Moe...FacePalm

I’ve never seen Sanji execute as much force or damage as a G3 attack....Pre or Post time skip......It’s Sanji’s biggest weakness how much destructive power he can dish out.

G3 Luffy Punch >> RS Sanji boosted Air kick.
1 K.O P1...The other hit multiple times and only inflicted mid damage.

I am not taking word of a guy who think Zoro can beat Kidd and Law because he can when no proof. Your facepalming yourself more here.

Sanji blocked Big Mom attack along with Luffy's G3 in prior arc and Oda stated on SBS his strength can stop her punch too. He has destructive power if your forgetting what he did to Watdusmi

You mean Base kicks compare to G3 Attack? Where has Sanji use anything more than Base Kicks in his fight? It was doing heavy damage to PO as much as Luffy's G3.