One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[King Moe]

Law doesnt have COC. Stop with the headcannon.
You hype up Sanji but refuse to acknowledge any of Zolo's feats. Zolo defeated Killer and Apoo. Sanji hasnt defeated any Supernova yet. Will he? Yes I think Sanji can but so far he hasnt.
Thats the difference between you and I, I bring in manga facts you bring in your made up facts. When asked for proof you cannot show it because it doesnt exist. You refuse to see the truth. That is what we call insane.

He does have COC.

I acknowledge it, but don't believe he can beat Yonko 1 on 1 if that is talk your forcing in? He is YC lvl, being in team fight doesn't push that. He tied with Kamazou and didn't beat Apoo even in 2 vs 1. Sanji already beaten T6H who are around Supernova level. Ignoring that is on you, not me.

Nah, you bring headcannon on your side while I bring the facts. You refuse to see canon on things even when hints and actions shown. If you don't believe people who have COC don't have it, your more on agenda than being honest.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2021 ---

Sanji’s characterization during WCI was super annoying to me. His psychological chains just popped up out of nowhere, for everything we seen the crew go through...Why does he fell like Vinsnoke family is too much for the Crew to deal with??!?! Or even asking for help from his crew. To just be handicap every time someone is threatened..

Non-resistance against Capone, really pissed me off.
Sanji attacking Luffy; More than pissed me off.
Sanji wanting to marry pudding, his reaction to her future betrayal pathetic.

Him saving Luffy; Nothing kool about it; His Brothers is the reason why he escaped with Luffy; Why couldn’t Oda at least have him do that

Im not even paying attention to Sanji much anymore in onigashima.

We got Page One & Sanji just throws on his suit and doesn’t finish the fight...:Like what!!!

X Drake no sell his attack & pimp smacked him.....

Thank God he save Momonosuke...
Then we have Black Moriah B.S...
So yea Sanji is a bum until he’s kool again lol

Actually it was build up given Sanji knew things about North Blue and never gone deep on his background since he debuted. So could be build to this for awhile. I mean Vinsmokes aren't joke, but it is Sanji is stronger than everyone in his family.

Why should he attack Bege when he wants him to take him to face his family and plus he couldn't protect the crew while fighting him.

That one he had no choice and he was holding back as it was more for Luffy to move away.

When your in real life situation with this and given kindness she shown up to that point, it make sense, but he got over it and irony she falls for him overall.

It is cool he saved Luffy, but you have to know Sanji is holding injured Captain in an group of Yonko Crew. You can't pretend he beat everyone without issues. He beaten some enemies, but his focus was to get Luffy out of there, not to fight.

Sanji beaten PO, that is shown and he didn't come back.

He tanked Drake's attack and keep fighting.

He also outsmarted 2 YCs and block and tanked King's attack while saving Momo.

Again it is Kalifia situation, you shouldn't take it seriously unless your thoughts were like that in Enies Lobby when we know he will come back to fight and be tide of battle.

Nah, only you see that on biased and like how your ignoring good points he done and not looking on them. Your biased is not helping your side.

 

[albertwv]

He does have COC.

I acknowledge it, but don't believe he can beat Yonko 1 on 1 if that is talk your forcing in? He is YC lvl, being in team fight doesn't push that. He tied with Kamazou and didn't beat Apoo even in 2 vs 1. Sanji already beaten T6H who are around Supernova level. Ignoring that is on you, not me.

Nah, you bring headcannon on your side while I bring the facts. You refuse to see canon on things even when hints and actions shown. If you don't believe people who have COC don't have it, your more on agenda than being honest.

Okay perfect you say Law has COC. Prove it. Show me the chapter or episode or Vivre Card or Colored Book or Oda interview where it states Law has COC. Dont weasel yourself out of this one.
Believing and proving are two different things. I believe in the god Zeus, can I prove it? Well.....
So you must show proof that Law has Color of Conqueror's haki.

When did Zolo tie with Killer? He literally beat him AND then collapsed. Killer was lucky to stab Zolo it was thanks to Gyukimaru's distraction that Killer was able to.
.

Zolo defeated Apoo alone, no Combo attack no team attack by himself. Drake didnt contribute to Zolo's attack.

Yes Drake was cornering Apoo, but it was Zolo who landed the last hit. Zolo got somewhat serious and decided to end Apoo with the quickness.

Now your turn to show proof that Sanji defeated anyone worth SN level.

For the last time, NOBODY is saying Zolo can 1v1 Kaido or that Zolo is fighting Kaido 1v1. We all know it is a team fight, not anymore since Luffy is going 1v1 Kaido but thats not the point.

Remember show us real proof/evidence of your claims especially the one about Law having COC. If you cannot provide any proof I suggest you shut up about it.

 

[King Moe]

Okay perfect you say Law has COC. Prove it. Show me the chapter or episode or Vivre Card or Colored Book or Oda interview where it states Law has COC. Dont weasel yourself out of this one.
Believing and proving are two different things. I believe in the god Zeus, can I prove it? Well.....
So you must show proof that Law has Color of Conqueror's haki.

When did Zolo tie with Killer? He literally beat him AND then collapsed. Killer was lucky to stab Zolo it was thanks to Gyukimaru's distraction that Killer was able to.
.

Zolo defeated Apoo alone, no Combo attack no team attack by himself. Drake didnt contribute to Zolo's attack.

Yes Drake was cornering Apoo, but it was Zolo who landed the last hit. Zolo got somewhat serious and decided to end Apoo with the quickness.

Now your turn to show proof that Sanji defeated anyone worth SN level.

For the last time, NOBODY is saying Zolo can 1v1 Kaido or that Zolo is fighting Kaido 1v1. We all know it is a team fight, not anymore since Luffy is going 1v1 Kaido but thats not the point.

Remember show us real proof/evidence of your claims especially the one about Law having COC. If you cannot provide any proof I suggest you shut up about it.

He is same case as Garp who isn't officially confirmed, but we know he has it if man can fight with Roger and same level as Sengoku. Is it headcannon to say he won't be confirmed when heavily hints he is one? More headcannon on you than me here.

You kinda prove my point as he fainted in seconds next to Kamazou, not standing for even a minute before fainting, so he was badly hurt as much as him. Plus he didn't beat Gyukimaru as shown in that panel too.

Thanks for porving my point again and this is Apoo after the fight in next chapter:

And we see him again later still fighting with Drake. He didn't beat someone if they got up quickly after next chapter unless your saying Luffy was defeated by Apoo given he his attack. Nice hypocrisy there and this was 2 vs 1 and Drake help Zoro, he couldn't beat Apoo on his own which is why he team on him, but even that didn't beat him as he still back to fighting.

Your pushing it like he will be on level to survive when we know he wouldn't get moments he did without help on his side. Not same case with Luffy who can fight Kaido more on his own. I stated he is YC lvl, but just saying not to overthink on Kaido side to push him above everyone else when he isn't.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

When it comes to law with COC for me it’s 50/50
It’s definitely not like Gary who has already shown way more streaks of independent behavior like wanting to be free at sea and not being bent to the will of the celestial dragons and by becoming an admiral , he crushed a conqueror in chinajo, and he defeated and erased rocks and his crew who was probably the top top conqueror of his time and had multiple conquerors under him so that lends to garp having COC
As well as luffy having COC ( I can bet dragon does have it too )
With law , for me it’s as a parrallel maybe his conquerors spirit has a different aura but it should have manifested when he was in flavence or against doflamingo or kaido ? We’ve not really had hints with law , though the closest is that his fated enemy was doffy and he’s after the secret history of the D so maybe he might manifest it
Law having COC hadnt been hinted at all it wouldn’t surprise anyone if he had it but there’s been 0 hints , granted a significant part of Zoro hints was people being surprised he followed anyone well that’s moot with law since he’s a captain
We will see
Law still has a lot of fighting and battling to do

 

[XXGenesis]

Was it not because of Big Mom and not the Vinsmokes that he surrendered himself to Capone? Either way I do agree it's pretty weird since they were planning on fighting Big Mom's crew soon anyway.

At least he saved his brothers which in turn saved him and Luffy, I guess?

Yea it was a threat from the Yonkou BM. But they just finished out running their ship....Sanji I don’t think is dumb enough that he thought he could solo enter a Yonkou territory & walk away. It was the Vinsmoke’s he thought he could walk away from, until they throw the explosive cuffs on him.

I’ll bring it back to PL, Sanji’s showings as a character & development shows struggle in the NW. ODA never gives him a fair shot to overcome the odds. His lost to Judge was unfair, Sanji could take Judge out in his RS imo during WCI.

Sanji shouldn’t have needed the save. He got overwhelmed by the BMP too easy, even getting shot. Even in his RS he still got overpowered by P1.

Will Sanji really fight one of Kaido’s commanders? & what kind of difficulty is he gonna suffer going up against a commander lv Ancient Zoan, when he ain’t K.O a Tobi Roppo who wasn’t the strongest

 

[King Moe]

Yea it was a threat from the Yonkou BM. But they just finished out running their ship....Sanji I don’t think is dumb enough that he thought he could solo enter a Yonkou territory & walk away. It was the Vinsmoke’s he thought he could walk away from, until they throw the explosive cuffs on him.

I’ll bring it back to PL, Sanji’s showings as a character & development shows struggle in the NW. ODA never gives him a fair shot to overcome the odds. His lost to Judge was unfair, Sanji could take Judge out in his RS imo during WCI.

Sanji shouldn’t have needed the save. He got overwhelmed by the BMP too easy, even getting shot. Even in his RS he still got overpowered by P1.

Will Sanji really fight one of Kaido’s commanders? & what kind of difficulty is he gonna suffer going up against a commander lv Ancient Zoan, when he ain’t K.O a Tobi Roppo who wasn’t the strongest

What you mean on that as did you think Sanji could fight everyone on his own while holding Luffy? That kinda dumb to say as while Sanji can defeat them, but your missing point he can't fight everyone while holding Luffy in his arms, not because he can't beat them. It's same situation why Zoro choose to run from Gifters and let Samurai Alliance help him since he can't beat them all on his own. Idk example your trying to force here.

Sanji beaten PO, that is clear. He never got overpowered by PO while he needed to go Hybrid Form to fight with his Base Kicks. Your making something up on headcannon there when already King couldn't harm him early, but you think he won't fight them when he doesn't mind fighting them? Again not making sense here.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 27, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 27, 2021 ---

When it comes to law with COC for me it’s 50/50
It’s definitely not like Gary who has already shown way more streaks of independent behavior like wanting to be free at sea and not being bent to the will of the celestial dragons and by becoming an admiral , he crushed a conqueror in chinajo, and he defeated and erased rocks and his crew who was probably the top top conqueror of his time and had multiple conquerors under him so that lends to garp having COC
As well as luffy having COC ( I can bet dragon does have it too )
With law , for me it’s as a parrallel maybe his conquerors spirit has a different aura but it should have manifested when he was in flavence or against doflamingo or kaido ? We’ve not really had hints with law , though the closest is that his fated enemy was doffy and he’s after the secret history of the D so maybe he might manifest it
Law having COC hadnt been hinted at all it wouldn’t surprise anyone if he had it but there’s been 0 hints , granted a significant part of Zoro hints was people being surprised he followed anyone well that’s moot with law since he’s a captain
We will see
Law still has a lot of fighting and battling to do

I mean in terms not in feats, but in that unofficial announced as Law is one given heavy hints about his character that fits the traits of a COC just the same with Garp. We haven't heard mention on anyone saying Garp's COC much, but does that mean he doesn't have it? Same thing on Law, so just saying we should not spoon-fed to know who has it when it clear. Oda isn't one to just state the obvious or at least show heavy hints before he give it in a form. There will be more COC users to see as the series goes on, so we have to prepare on that especially those who show signs on it.

 

[albertwv]

@goldb can you please add on to that list regarding Law having COC?

It seems that someone is pushing for Law having COC but cannot provide substantial proof from any source besides their own fantasy.
I've asked numerous times for proof of Law's COC but the claimer has failed to produce any proof and still keeps claiming Law has it.

 

[hokageji]

all CoC first time uses we've witnessed is a shocking / life changing event.
And Law has passed through all of them, i doubt he has CoC

 

[King Moe]

all CoC first time uses we've witnessed is a shocking / life changing event.
And Law has passed through all of them, i doubt he has CoC

Just saying it is possible for him to still show it though as we take Kidd for example, we don't know much deep about him, but he has COC and no one before it was stated knew or thought he will have it. Shouldn't be farfetched to say Law could have it especially he competing with Luffy and Kidd for Pirate King.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 27, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 27, 2021 ---

@goldb can you please add on to that list regarding Law having COC?

It seems that someone is pushing for Law having COC but cannot provide substantial proof from any source besides their own fantasy.
I've asked numerous times for proof of Law's COC but the claimer has failed to produce any proof and still keeps claiming Law has it.

Not really, your overreacting if you think Law won't have it. Your headcannon for dislike on character won't make it happen. Law has the traits and reasons to have it, Idk why your making such a big deal for someone to say Law will have it as much as those who been heavily implied like Blackbeard, Garp, Dragon, etc..

 

[XXGenesis]

@goldb
I advocate for Law’s claim of CoC
& the benign comment of “Headcannon” that only Moe is using

 

[albertwv]

@goldb
I advocate for Law’s claim of CoC
& the benign comment of “Headcannon” that only Moe is using

Thank you.
Plus iirc, he was the main instigator regarding the Smoker is Top 30 argument. Him claiming Smoker was in the Top 30 because he had gotten stronger somehow since his defeat in PH. Moe had no proof but still claimed Smoker was Top 30.
Bet if you ask moe, he will still claim it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Who wins???? A 2 handed club wielding full force hybrid Kaido vs 1 legged staw boi, who ya got???

 

[King Moe]

@goldb
I advocate for Law’s claim of CoC
& the benign comment of “Headcannon” that only Moe is using

If he gets COC and confirmed, your going to hurt yourself even more. If Kidd can have it, you got expect certain characters like that to have it. Your headcannons not helping you.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 27, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 27, 2021 ---

Thank you.
Plus iirc, he was the main instigator regarding the Smoker is Top 30 argument. Him claiming Smoker was in the Top 30 because he had gotten stronger somehow since his defeat in PH. Moe had no proof but still claimed Smoker was Top 30.
Bet if you ask moe, he will still claim it.

Coming from someone who once said 'Law won't be up there to fight Kaido' and you got proven wrong in recent chapters. Yeah compare to me, your credibility is more biased than anything credible and now your doubting Law who is another 'D.' who won't have COC just because you say so? I have discuss the proof, but you and Genesis like ignoring canon for your own agenda.

Why you bringing off topic like Smoker now? You insecure cause I also say Zoro isn't stronger than Law too? Law proves you can come back stronger in an arc to face someone despite some saying he 'can't' because he couldn't beat Doflamingo. What is your stance now that he can even harm Kaido now. Do you still think he won't do anything to Doffy? Same can be said with Smoker when he comes back into the story. Characters get stronger in each arc, dumb to think we aren't in a Shounen and that is impossible or just manga in general of characters getting stronger in future arcs.

 

[Nie Li]

Coming from someone who once said 'Law won't be up there to fight Kaido' and you got proven wrong in recent chapters. Yeah compare to me, your credibility is more biased than anything credible

This coming from someone who once said "Zoro won't be up there to fight Kaido".

Anyway; yes, Law could have CoC, but there are no indications so far that he has it, so while of course it's not impossible that he has it (hell, even Chopper could possibly have it) we can't be sure that he ever will. For now, until there's some evidence or hint, Law doesn't have CoC.

 

[goldb]

If he gets COC and confirmed, your going to hurt yourself even more. If Kidd can have it, you got expect certain characters like that to have it. Your headcannons not helping you.

Why would it hurt them? it's not like they're telling lies. There's no current evidence to confirm Law has CoC, just as Elessar said. Anything stating that he does right is an assumption based on his lineage, similar to any other Ds.

 

[thedude]

I know it's "banned" topic...but is there any real way even the biggest Zoro stan can say he's stronger than Luffy anymore? Zoro cut Kaido, but didn't really hurt him, while Luffy is fighting evenly with Kaido on the roof. I think this one is over (until Zoro can master CoC haki that is, lol).

 

[Nie Li]

I know it's "banned" topic...but is there any real way even the biggest Zoro stan can say he's stronger than Luffy anymore? Zoro cut Kaido, but didn't really hurt him, while Luffy is fighting evenly with Kaido on the roof. I think this one is over (until Zoro can master CoC haki that is, lol).

There's no way to defend that now. I expect Zoro to always be the closest SH to Luffy, though, and perhaps even rival his power once again before the series ends, kind of like the Dark King Rayleigh and Roger.

That's unless Luffy unlocks powers that go beyond anyone else has ever possessed like most shonen protagonists.

 

[albertwv]

Moe, it's not that I don't think Law MAY have COC, it's just that it isn't confirmed that he has it. You are claiming he does when there's no proof. If you say because he is a D member than that includes Portgas D. Rouge, she must've had it right? Even though there is no evidence she had it but according to your logic she has it.

I never said Law wasnt going to be up there fighting Kaido. I was thought it was going to be a Supernova team fight versus Kaido. I actually wanted all SN present at Wano to unite together to fight Kaido, including Apoo and Hawkins.

 

[King Moe]

This coming from someone who once said "Zoro won't be up there to fight Kaido".

Anyway; yes, Law could have CoC, but there are no indications so far that he has it, so while of course it's not impossible that he has it (hell, even Chopper could possibly have it) we can't be sure that he ever will. For now, until there's some evidence or hint, Law doesn't have CoC.

I can admit I said that, but just that he won't face him in first round, I thought later.

Just saying on possibility scale. I know it's unofficial, but if Kidd could get it despite we still don't know much on him, it make sense Law will have it especially he is shown competing with Luffy and Kidd as well traits for COC user.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 27, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 27, 2021 ---

There's no way to defend that now. I expect Zoro to always be the closest SH to Luffy, though, and perhaps even rival his power once again before the series ends, kind of like the Dark King Rayleigh and Roger.

That's unless Luffy unlocks powers that go beyond anyone else has ever possessed like most shonen protagonists.

Nah, Roger and Rayleigh weren't seen as rivals on their ship, that was Rayleigh and Gaban. Roger is moving to his own tier and same with Luffy. Zoro doesn't feel like a rival compare to Kidd and Law who are actually rival with each other.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 27, 2021 ---

Why would it hurt them? it's not like they're telling lies. There's no current evidence to confirm Law has CoC, just as Elessar said. Anything stating that he does right is an assumption based on his lineage, similar to any other Ds.

He stating it like Law will never get it same way he thought Law won't come up to the roof to face Kaido. You shouldn't doubt it especially Law having COC is a possible, not impossible.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 27, 2021 ---

I know it's "banned" topic...but is there any real way even the biggest Zoro stan can say he's stronger than Luffy anymore? Zoro cut Kaido, but didn't really hurt him, while Luffy is fighting evenly with Kaido on the roof. I think this one is over (until Zoro can master CoC haki that is, lol).

Nah, Luffy is always on his own tier, I don't think Oda is going to push him on same as Luffy on his side. You can see it even in newspaper as Luffy is seen as 'Yonko' and probably after this arc, we will see the Yonko Commanders being Zoro, Sanji, and Jimbei to the Strawhats.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 27, 2021 ---

Moe, it's not that I don't think Law MAY have COC, it's just that it isn't confirmed that he has it. You are claiming he does when there's no proof. If you say because he is a D member than that includes Portgas D. Rouge, she must've had it right? Even though there is no evidence she had it but according to your logic she has it.

I never said Law wasnt going to be up there fighting Kaido. I was thought it was going to be a Supernova team fight versus Kaido. I actually wanted all SN present at Wano to unite together to fight Kaido, including Apoo and Hawkins.

I get that. I am just saying it is highly possibility, not that it is confirmed or not. That still Oda with his series to confirmed on it, but just saying you have to be open on possibility there. I not saying every 'D.' has it (Also don't know more about Rouge to say on her if she is one or not), but it raise your chances to be one more from those we seen whether active or inactive have it.

You did said back before thinking about fights especially Law side when he was on the Poneglyph to think he do something else. I saw Supernova fight and say Law will be up there, but some say due to not handling Doffy, they think he is same as he is when you do know everyone get stronger on each arc. Why ignoring this when it is shown in manga series.

 

[goldb]

Just saying on possibility scale. I know it's unofficial, but if Kidd could get it despite we still don't know much on him, it make sense Law will have it especially he is shown competing with Luffy and Kidd as well traits for COC user.

He stating it like Law will never get it same way he thought Law won't come up to the roof to face Kaido. You shouldn't doubt it especially Law having COC is a possible, not impossible.

This topic is benched until you can provide a manga page or SBS or databook information to confirm that Law has CoC right now. The fact that it may be a possibility is irrelevant, because that can be said for many characters and any Ds that have appeared. You failing to see that makes you stubborn and means you don't get the point of this discussion. Which is exact same reason the Smoker debate was initially added on the list.

I don't want to know about traits, vibes, anime staff or how things go.