One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

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Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
  • Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
  • Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
  • We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.
  8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
 
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LadyVados

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Shouldn't Ground rule no. 3 be removed now ?

Maybe even a couple more
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Sure, you're right - Mihawk likely has stronger Armament and Observation, but I believe the difference is marginal. Shanks has been portrayed as a master of Conqueror's Haki, so that's where he probably exceeds the strongest swordsman. Either way, the difference in their strengths is minimal.
Considering that Zoro and Big Mom both have advanced CoC, I don't think it's as big a deal as some people were making it out to be. Sure Shanks is probably more skilled at it than Zoro and Big Mom... but still.

There's a reason Zoro learnt advanced coc before manifesting a black blade, Oda is showing us the hierarchy of these powers.
 

Pirate Queen

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Let's be clear Zoro does NOT have advanced CoC.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is only fooling themselves.

Will he get it? Most likely, but not currently
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Shouldn't Ground rule no. 3 be removed now ?
Zoro is much father away from catching up to Luffy than previously thought. Especially now that Luffy has Advanced CoC.

Zoro's ultimate move is very clearly weaker than a barrage of punches from Luffy in base.
 
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LadyVados

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Let's be clear Zoro doesn't NOT have advanced CoC.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is only fooling themselves.

Will he get it? Most likely, but not currently
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


Zoro is much father away from catching up to Luffy than previously thought. Especially now that Luffy has Advanced CoC.

Zoro's ultimate move is very clearly weaker than a barrage of punches from Luffy in base.
Kaido disagrees

Lol I guess Nekomamushi is as strong as Luffy since he knocked Kaido down.

Luffy's attacks did no damage to Kaido whatsoever. Kaido literally did not have a single scratch on him other than Zoro's wound in 1013.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Let's be clear Zoro doesn't NOT have advanced CoC.
Oh sorry my mistake, I misread. You're agreeing with me.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

One Piece Wikia actually lists Zoro in their list of AdCoC users.

Unlike Shanks
 

Pirate Queen

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Kaido disagrees

Lol I guess Nekomamushi is as strong as Luffy since he knocked Kaido down.

Luffy's attacks did no damage to Kaido whatsoever. Kaido literally did not have a single scratch on him other than Zoro's wound in 1013.
--- Double Post Merged, ---



Oh sorry my mistake, I misread. You're agreeing with me.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

One Piece Wikia actually lists Zoro in their list of AdCoC users.

Unlike Shanks
Your confusing CoC with Advanced CoC

But since your previous comment are pure nonsense I guess it's normal for you to confuse things

Stop using Wiki to prove your points. They are subject to the opinion of anyone and not based on facts at all unless it is explained in the Manga.

Zoro isn't able to coat his attacks in CoC like Luffy Kaido and Big Mom.
 

albertwv

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Let's be clear Zoro doesn't NOT have advanced CoC.
Maybe its a typo, but I am assuming you meant ZOLO DOES NOT HAVE ADVANCED COC
If so then I agree with you.
Zolo has barely shown that he has COC, for him to already have ADV COC, is pure imagination. It took Luffy this long to even use it and people think Zolo has ADV COC. Hilarious.

Also Zolo is not Yonko level. Lady Vados stop making pointless claims please. Ground rule no. 3 exists for people like you who claim Zolo > Luffy when the manga has shown otherwise. Zolo cutting Kaido was a huge feat, Oden level feat, but now with Luffy using ADV COC versus Kaido clearly trumps Zolo's feats. Also, although Zolo visibly scarred Kaido doesnt mean Luffy's attacks are not hurting Kaido.
 

Pirate Queen

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Maybe its a typo, but I am assuming you meant ZOLO DOES NOT HAVE ADVANCED COC
If so then I agree with you.
Zolo has barely shown that he has COC, for him to already have ADV COC, is pure imagination. It took Luffy this long to even use it and people think Zolo has ADV COC. Hilarious.

Also Zolo is not Yonko level. Lady Vados stop making pointless claims please. Ground rule no. 3 exists for people like you who claim Zolo > Luffy when the manga has shown otherwise. Zolo cutting Kaido was a huge feat, Oden level feat, but now with Luffy using ADV COC versus Kaido clearly trumps Zolo's feats. Also, although Zolo visibly scarred Kaido doesnt mean Luffy's attacks are not hurting Kaido.
Sorry typo you are correct.
 

M3J

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Hmm, Mihawk used to fight Shanks with swords, and holds the title of strongest swordsman

The problem is that Mihawk and Shanks have appeared like what, 10 panels combined for the past 900 chapters? So it's open to speculation
It means Mihawk is either the superior swordsman, or Shanks's refusal to fight after losing his arm made Mihawk the best swordsman. Basically, as you implied, who the fuck knows?

I just don't think Mihawk's emperor level or close to it just because he's the world's strongest swordsman though, he can be a superior swordsman and still lose in an actual fight.

Mihawk has to be able to challenge the Emperors if he's the strongest swordsman, otherwise his title is just for show.
So, if, say, Shanks and Mihawk were to fight with swords only, Mihawk would likely emerge victorious. This doesn't mean that Mihawk can beat Shanks though, since the latter may have Haki that would allow him to overpower a better swordsman in other fields.
For example, Kaido is the strongest fighter when it comes to physique, so he's bound to beat anyone in a challenge of raw power, but he can be beaten if one is more agile, faster, has better Haki, or a very powerful Devil Fruit.
Well, not really if the emperors aren't swordsmen like he is, except for Shanks. It's also weird that for all the hype that the emperors have, Mihawk barely has hype of that level.

Other than that, though, I think I agree with you.

Zoro is already nearly as strong as an Emperor, let alone Mihawk.
No he's not.
 

albertwv

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It means Mihawk is either the superior swordsman, or Shanks's refusal to fight after losing his arm made Mihawk the best swordsman. Basically, as you implied, who the fuck knows?
I just don't think Mihawk's emperor level or close to it just because he's the world's strongest swordsman though, he can be a superior swordsman and still lose in an actual fight.
Well, not really if the emperors aren't swordsmen like he is, except for Shanks. It's also weird that for all the hype that the emperors have, Mihawk barely has hype of that level.
Yes thank you someone else agrees with me about Mihawk.
Mihawk was Shanks' rival before he became a Yonko and before he lost his arm. But ODA, stated in an SBS that Shanks losing an arm did not weaken him at all. What I think happened, is that Shanks' skills at swordplay became a subpar to Mihawk's sword skill and therefore Mihawk didnt want to duel him anymore.
Mihawk's hype is nowhere near the Yonkos.


Aside from this, I really wish we would have seen Zolo duel more swordsman throughout the NW, especially in Wano, he didnt get a real swordsman duel at all, quite disappointing. As if Oda, forgot that Zolo was a swordsman.
 

M3J

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oh whoops, it's Mihawk who refused to fight Shanks. But anything's up in the air, so it's weird how readers keep insisting at Mihawk's strength when that doesn't really make him that strong. Can he hurt Kaidou or Big Mom? Unless he can actually deal some sort of damage, it's pointless comparing him to them.
 

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oh whoops, it's Mihawk who refused to fight Shanks. But anything's up in the air, so it's weird how readers keep insisting at Mihawk's strength when that doesn't really make him that strong. Can he hurt Kaidou or Big Mom? Unless he can actually deal some sort of damage, it's pointless comparing him to them.
I think it's just as likely that he's as strong as the people you disagree with, but I'm somewhere in the middle on this.

There's no other metric for his power beyond 'Shanks's rival at least in sword stuff'. Shanks is often used as a measuring stick to specifically say where other characters' overall power levels are. Whitebeard clash, turning Kaidou around from Marineford, Blackbeard scarring him with 'no tricks', being the rival to the greatest swordsman in the world, being basically the finishing line of 'great pirate' for Luffy himself... It's pretty obvious to me he's used to hype up other characters and establish they're in the same top tier.
 

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I'm personally in the "who tf knows? but assuming and hyping Mihawk up without proof is annoying" category. The weird thing about using Shanks is that he hasn't shown his strength, other than his haki, but we assume he can at least tangle with Whitebeard because he's shown no fear and eventually became an Emperor.
 

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If Mihawk play-fighting Shanks is evidence he's Yonko level, there's far more evidence of the opposite.

In Marineford, everyone was pooping their pants at the sight of Whitebeard or Shanks. But nobody cared at Mihawk's presence. If the Marines had someone like Kaido as an ally, there's no way they would keep it quiet.

Mihawk also clashed with the likes of Crocodile and Vista... can you imagine a Yonko having their passage blocked like that?

And there are dozens of times the strongest in the world have been mentioned, and they would have forgotten about Mihawk. I.e. the Gorosei saying only the remaining Yonko or Marco could put a stop to Blackbeard.

EDIT: Oh no, I have trapped by one of the forbidden topics of this thread
 
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Core D. Roy

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I'm personally in the "who tf knows? but assuming and hyping Mihawk up without proof is annoying" category. The weird thing about using Shanks is that he hasn't shown his strength, other than his haki, but we assume he can at least tangle with Whitebeard because he's shown no fear and eventually became an Emperor.
That's the thing, Shanks is the one connective tissue between all of these characters. An assumption that everyone that has clashed with Shanks is firmly somewhere in the legendary tier is I think more likely than just getting annoyed because there's 'no reason'. The reason is right there, and it's Shanks.

When it comes to a fantasy match with Mihawk vs. the likes of Kaidou or Big Mom, I think there's a lot to unpack with what little we know. But to dismiss it outright? C'mon
 

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Maybe its a typo, but I am assuming you meant ZOLO DOES NOT HAVE ADVANCED COC
If so then I agree with you.
Zolo has barely shown that he has COC, for him to already have ADV COC, is pure imagination. It took Luffy this long to even use it and people think Zolo has ADV COC. Hilarious.

Also Zolo is not Yonko level. Lady Vados stop making pointless claims please. Ground rule no. 3 exists for people like you who claim Zolo > Luffy when the manga has shown otherwise. Zolo cutting Kaido was a huge feat, Oden level feat, but now with Luffy using ADV COC versus Kaido clearly trumps Zolo's feats. Also, although Zolo visibly scarred Kaido doesnt mean Luffy's attacks are not hurting Kaido.
Except they clearly no damage to Kaido at all.

Zoro clearly did better against Kaido than Luffy.

Strong evidence for Zoro > Luffy (atleast in pure AP)

(not to mention to beat Luffy you just need to survive for 10 minutes and he'll ko himself)

Also Oden is unquestionably above Luffy lol so is Zoro is Oden level he's well above Luffy.

If Zoro can wound Kaido then what can Mihawk do...

Your confusing CoC with Advanced CoC

But since your previous comment are pure nonsense I guess it's normal for you to confuse things

Stop using Wiki to prove your points. They are subject to the opinion of anyone and not based on facts at all unless it is explained in the Manga.

Zoro isn't able to coat his attacks in CoC like Luffy Kaido and Big Mom.
If Zoro isn't able to coat his attacks with CoC then how did he scar Kaido ?

The One Piece Wikia is run by people who know what they are talking about.
Yes thank you someone else agrees with me about Mihawk.
Mihawk was Shanks' rival before he became a Yonko and before he lost his arm. But ODA, stated in an SBS that Shanks losing an arm did not weaken him at all. What I think happened, is that Shanks' skills at swordplay became a subpar to Mihawk's sword skill and therefore Mihawk didnt want to duel him anymore.
Mihawk's hype is nowhere near the Yonkos.


Aside from this, I really wish we would have seen Zolo duel more swordsman throughout the NW, especially in Wano, he didnt get a real swordsman duel at all, quite disappointing. As if Oda, forgot that Zolo was a swordsman.
Mihawk has been hyped since chapter 50, the Yonko weren't even introduced until like chapter 200.

If Mihawk play-fighting Shanks is evidence he's Yonko level, there's far more evidence of the opposite.

In Marineford, everyone was pooping their pants at the sight of Whitebeard or Shanks. But nobody cared at Mihawk's presence. If the Marines had someone like Kaido as an ally, there's no way they would keep it quiet.

Mihawk also clashed with the likes of Crocodile and Vista... can you imagine a Yonko having their passage blocked like that?
Marco who is comparable to Vista blocked Big Mom, heck weaker characters than Crocodile such as Chopper and Brook have given Big Mom trouble.

I consider Crocodile stronger than any scabbard and Kaido had his hands full with them.

What are you talking about ? Literally everyone was in awe of Mihawk when he appeared and everyone was holding their breath when he slashed. Even Boa was scared of him, Boa who is scared of no one, even a Yonko level+ being like Rayleigh.
oh whoops, it's Mihawk who refused to fight Shanks. But anything's up in the air, so it's weird how readers keep insisting at Mihawk's strength when that doesn't really make him that strong. Can he hurt Kaidou or Big Mom? Unless he can actually deal some sort of damage, it's pointless comparing him to them.
If Zoro can wound Kaido Mihawk who's way stronger will slaughter him.
oh whoops, it's Mihawk who refused to fight Shanks. But anything's up in the air, so it's weird how readers keep insisting at Mihawk's strength when that doesn't really make him that strong.
You're clearly biased against Mihawk if you believe that.

Heck VSBW rates Mihawk above Shanks and that site is generally very biased against Mihawk and Zoro.

In fact, one of their admins said that while he personally thinks that Shanks is above Mihawk, all the evidence points to Mihawk being stronger so he had to be impartial and rate Mihawk higher.

One Piece Wikia's list of AdCoC users, a certain red haired man is missing while a certain green-haired man is here...
 

Pirate Queen

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Except they clearly no damage to Kaido at all.

Zoro clearly did better against Kaido than Luffy.

Strong evidence for Zoro > Luffy (atleast in pure AP)

(not to mention to beat Luffy you just need to survive for 10 minutes and he'll ko himself)

Also Oden is unquestionably above Luffy lol so is Zoro is Oden level he's well above Luffy.

If Zoro can wound Kaido then what can Mihawk do...
So let me get this straight. Your trail of thought is... because Luffy uses his fists, and as such doesn't leave defining marks like Zoro slashing with his swords, that Luffy is doing no damage?

Are you that slow?

I guess Doflamingo took no damage from Luffy in their fight... Or Katakuri... and Garp "THE FIST" doesn't do any damage when he fight.

That has to be the most hilarious take I have ever read.

Luffy has done FAR more damage to Kaido than Zoro and its not even close. Luffy fought Kaido solo for 10-20 minutes(being liberal since all we have to go on is the events of last chapter to base our time on) in his BASE form. We are taking basic punches here.

Now that that point is done, let's go to your next insane take.

Zoro doesn't have advanced CoC



Zoro is very clearly missing the "black Lightning effect" that highlights when Advanced CoC is being used unlike Luffy:



Unlike Kaido:



Unlike Big Mom:



Unlike Roger and Whitebeard:




BUT YOU CAN HAVE COC CLASHES WHERE BLACK LIGHTNING IS PRESENT BUT NOT COATED IN ATTACKS:





Now again let's look at Zoro v Kaido



No black lightening. Zoro isn't utilizing Advanced CoC. This is simply the easiest thing to confirm. All you have to do is read the manga.

I don't know how you can't be embaressed with some of the takes you spout.

But your dumbest take, even above saying Zoro>Luffy is your take that BOA HANCOCK was scared of Mihawk. And that she doesn't even fear Yonko+ level dudes like Rayliegh. What? They have a personal connection first of all, second... she wasn't even close to fearing Mihawk. You have no panels to back up that nonsense.

What a joke
 

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There's no black lighting at all in Zoro's attack.

What Kaido sensed must be just basic CoC, like Luffy pre-timeskip. Like Luffy, Zoro will have to train to show the black lighting.
 

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There's no black lighting at all in Zoro's attack.

What Kaido sensed must be just basic CoC, like Luffy pre-timeskip. Like Luffy, Zoro will have to train to show the black lighting.
This. I am just astounded with the amount of headcanon floating around here recently
 

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That's the thing, Shanks is the one connective tissue between all of these characters. An assumption that everyone that has clashed with Shanks is firmly somewhere in the legendary tier is I think more likely than just getting annoyed because there's 'no reason'. The reason is right there, and it's Shanks.

When it comes to a fantasy match with Mihawk vs. the likes of Kaidou or Big Mom, I think there's a lot to unpack with what little we know. But to dismiss it outright? C'mon
I just fail to understand how he's the connective tissue when we know almost nothing about him other than him likely being very strong.

If Zoro can wound Kaido Mihawk who's way stronger will slaughter him.
ANd yet Kaidou is still fighting like he never got hurt and knocked Luffy and Zoro out.

You're clearly biased against Mihawk if you believe that.

Heck VSBW rates Mihawk above Shanks and that site is generally very biased against Mihawk and Zoro
I'm not biased at all, nor do I care what some random person says about Mihawk. I'm going by the manga and what can be deduced from the manga. And if Mihawk is above Shanks, then why didn't anyone on Marineford lose their shit at Mihawk, but they did when Shanks arrived? Blackbeard had no problem taking on Whitebeard remnants and the Marines, but when Shanks joined, he retreated.
 

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@M3J simple because they have been fighting for a while when shanks came he was fresh lol
 

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why didn't anyone on Marineford lose their shit at Mihawk

Mihawk didn't present himself as a real threat/ally for either side. He was just there (like most of the other warlords) and both sides had better things to do than gawk over him.

On the other hand, Shanks did pose himself as a threat/obstacle.
 
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