One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[roggie]

I'm not eager to win any debate here and I'm not an one piece scholar. I leave this role for some of you guys here and I'm grateful for it. Everything i put here usually comes from old memories and possible misconceptions. Lets go

1. Can't Luffy kind change his density (maybe hardness?)? He doesn't walk around with flabby arms. Edit. There's also armament haki anyway.
2. Normal Luffy stuff doesn't seem to spend any stamina. It's totally discretionary to Oda and we have no basis of comparison. Doflamingo Bird's Cage didn't stress him out at all for example.
3. To stretch and compress permits Luffy to gather a lot more power. It's like a coil and a catapult.
4. Isn't Luffy gears only possible because of his rubber body? Pumping high pressure blood etc

 

[XXGenesis]

WTF! Every other week reasoning just leaves the forum & its OP threads.

How the hell would Luffy be weaker w/o his DF?

What about stretching your arm mad far then striking? Makes ppl think that’s not a stronger strike than a regular cock back punch??? Like what the $&&$ type of logic is that.

It’s just so elementary I can’t believe ppl have these POV, it’s just doesn’t make sense after reading the story for so long to have this false interpretation.

Luffy was trained by Garp. Yes he’s naturally strong. His DF gives him the physically abilities of Rubber. Lmfao that doesn’t make his body softer or less dense, simply gives him the ability to stretch like rubber and it’s properties of endurance. G3 is a big ass giant fist, how would Luffy w/o his DF replicate such an attack? He can’t, just like most others can’t because they aren’t a giant! Not can they increase their arm size....So this whole notion is just stupid. Luffy is a genius with his DF even with his beginning moves like Gomu Gomu no Rifle or Bazooka, shit even Gomu Gomu no Axe..


CoA vs DF does not apply to every single DF. My god why is nuisances to hard to understand.........:BB DF is the perfect example to help you understand, the difference of CoA vs DF abilities.

BB with Yami Yami once he touches you. He turns off your DF power. All DF w/e DF power it will be negated fully if BB is in physical contact with you. Meaning Luffy can’t stretch if he’s grabbed; Akainu wouldn’t be able to turn into magma or use a magma fist if BB is touching him...

CoA harden’s 1 body; Provides a small shield around the body which doesn’t allow for contact & can still attack with the barrier. This would allow 2 results against an elemental DF.

1) CoA allows for strikes; Not grappling or physically contact. Grabbing Akainu would result in him burning your hand regardless of your touching him with CoA I.e Jimbei trying to block Akainu....

2) Advanced CoA provides a small barrier, so therefore that more than likely would result in you grabbing/touching someone without real physical contact. Akainu would be unable to burn you as your not in direct contact with his body


The same applies for Ice DF, Fire DF etc.....Advanced Haki can be used as a shield to protect from harm I.e Admirals vs WB’s Guru guru attack

Regular CoA allows for more defense and attacks on DF users body, but doesn’t stop their DF power

In terms of other DF powers yes Stronger Haki seems to leave them unable to effect them.....I.E Law can’t move the Yonkou’s with Shambles. Or someone maybe capable of blocking his dissection within his room(Vergo)

Note Haki is nullifying not negating the DF ability, logia’s are different because they are the actual elements

 

[Nie Li]

Note Haki is nullifying not negating the DF ability, logia’s are different because they are the actual elements

Note they're literally synonyms.

 

[Ellenate]

When an opponent hits Luffy's body, he barely can feel anything

Shouldn't the same be true when Luffy's hits the opponent?

Luffy feeling less recoil from his attacks/movements was explicitly stated as a thing during drum island...

I'm not really knocking the defensive capabilities of the fruit (though they fell off in the timeskip)

Also, Non DF Luffy would be weaker than even Sanji.

sanji is a bum, he couldn't even match vergo at his specialty.

he's not beating coby (currently inbound to a warlord), let alone a luffy who developed without a fruit.

if coby beats boa (which i myself will admit would be f***ing ridiculous) he's murdering the entire crew outside of

luffy
zoro (getting lucky)


luffy would've been better off being trained by his grandpa than having a fruit.


@roggie

1) no but it's been shown to get weaker as luffy uses haki and pushes it. (luffy seems to be the only character who these weakness affect. no one else gets weaker as they use their df)
2) normal luffy?
3) on a target range against a non moving dummy. where both versions only get one hit. fruit luffy should be capable of hitting harder. that doesn't translate well into an actual battle though.
4) yes.

 

[LadyVados]

Good point. If Mihawk was that a threat, at least Marco should be taken to engage him.

Still, he is obviously stronger than present Zoro. I think we should concede him a low yonko rank. I believe it's fair. Below yonkos, above YC1

The only time they were impressed by Mihawk was when Mihawk stated he wanted to see the distance (in strength) between him and WB. But Jozu stopped his attack like it was nothing. Not even WB was fazed lol. THEN, Marco tells Vista to cover Luffy from Mihawk, if Mihawk is Yonko level, the only one able to stop him would have been WB. but no a YC2 max was able to clash somewhat evenly agaisnt Mihawk and showed no fear and the outcome was a tie, yeah yeah they werent serious at all but still Mihawk shouldve finished Vista in 1-3 hits if he was really Yonko level.

Mihawk was a threat to the WB pirates but not a big threat like the admirals.

Mihawk just does not have the same hype as any of the Yonko or even admirals do.

I don't understand this logic at all. Marco, Jozu and Vista were WB's top 3, 2 of them fought Admirals, one of them fought Mihawk, how is that a negative against Mihawk ? Heck Vista has been with WB the longest so if anything he trusts him the most that's why he sent him after Mihawk.

There's no black lighting at all in Zoro's attack.

What Kaido sensed must be just basic CoC, like Luffy pre-timeskip. Like Luffy, Zoro will have to train to show the black lighting.

How could he damage Kaido with just basic CoC ?

Again One Piece wikia lists him as an AdCoC user.

He was fresh off beating Kaidos ass. Jk.
Most of the Marines were not injured, it was the WBP who held the highest casualties. The marines were fired up after WBs death.

I'd argue Marco did better against BM than Vista did against Mihawk.

Heck Jinbe and Robin did better against BM than Vista did against Mihawk.

Heck Kinemon did better against Kaido than Vista did against Mihawk.

Vista is unquestionably above Jinbe, Robin and Kinemon. Heck he could probably solo all 3 since he's been portrayed as Marco's equal.

ANd yet Kaidou is still fighting like he never got hurt and knocked Luffy and Zoro out.

Zoro atleast managed to have some effect on Kaido unlike Luffy.

If Big Mom hadn't been there I'm sure a 1v1 between Zoro and Kaido would have atleast lasted for a couple of hours. And Kaido would probably have atleast 2 or 3 scars at the end of it.

I guess Doflamingo took no damage from Luffy in their fight... Or Katakuri... and Garp "THE FIST" doesn't do any damage when he fight.

Except Doffy and Katakuri all had visible damage after their fights with Luffy and they both BLED from Luffy's attacks. Unlike Kaido.

I was wrong about Boa, it seems that was an anime only scene.

YC2 max

i think WB's commanders are clearly much stronger than other Yonko commanders.

Marco alone is destroying King and Queen at the same time. And even Queen has a much higher bounty than Katakuri. Heck Jack has a similiar bounty to Katakuri.

I think it's safe to say WB Commanders >> Beast All stars > Sweet Generals.

Heck Marco was able to hold his own against Big Mom for 3 chapters while the ENTIRE BM CREW felt they had no chance against BM at all during her rampages and would get neg-diffed.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Except Doffy and Katakuri all had visible damage after their fights with Luffy and they both BLED from Luffy's attacks. Unlike Kaido.

I was wrong about Boa, it seems that was an anime only scene.

Luffy was making Kaido bleed even from his non CoC attacks

A panel of Luffy WITHOUT COC making Kaido bleed and Kaido himself saying Luffy damaged him...

You need to stop being so ridiculous lol

 

[LadyVados]

Luffy was making Kaido bleed even from his non CoC attacks

A panel of Luffy WITHOUT COC making Kaido bleed and Kaido himself saying Luffy damaged him...

You need to stop being so ridiculous lol

Except it didn't leave a scar and disappears shortly afterwards. (It was too shallow to quote Luffy himself)

Unlike Zoro's scar which is permanent.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Except it didn't leave a scar and disappears shortly afterwards. (It was too shallow to quote Luffy himself)

Unlike Zoro's scar which is permanent.

Your hopeless you keep moving the goal post

You: Luffy didn't damage Kaido like Zoro
Me: here's a panel
You: He didn't make Kaido bleed like Zoro
Me: Here's a panel
You: Well he didn't leave a scar like Zoro
Me: Fists don't make scars it's blunt damage which can be just as deadly as slashing damage
You: See? Checkmate


The fuck are you trying to accomplish? No one but you is convinced Zoro did more than Luffy is doing. You are just spouting nonsense

 

[LadyVados]

No one but you is convinced Zoro did more than Luffy is doing.

Most of the internet is.
And what do you mean is doing ?

Spoiler: 1014

Luffy's at the bottom of the ocean last time I checked

 

[Pirate Queen]

Most of the internet is.

Sure they are pal

 

[roggie]

1) no but it's been shown to get weaker as luffy uses haki and pushes it. (luffy seems to be the only character who these weakness affect. no one else gets weaker as they use their df)
2) normal luffy?
3) on a target range against a non moving dummy. where both versions only get one hit. fruit luffy should be capable of hitting harder. that doesn't translate well into an actual battle though.
4) yes.

1. His hardness gets softer? He doesn't becomes a slime when tired. What i meant is nothing seems to imply his rubber hand is softer than an actual hand.
2. Normal Luffy would be "gear 1"? Just his regular stretch etc
3. Maybe in real world physics. But Luffy is not real. He is "magical". He is a fantastic being not tied to the laws of our reality. How else would gear 3 makes sense? He just blows air into his body. How would snake man be practical? Changing direction blows?? And also, the problem you mentioned, everybody would chop off his limbs.
4. Thanks.

 

[HereNThere]

His hardness gets softer? He doesn't becomes a slime when tired. What i meant is nothing seems to imply his rubber hand is softer than an actual hand.

His body is naturally malleable, but his density should be the same as a normal humans without the use of Gear 3 or haki.

As shown in Dressrosa, when he's completely exhausted or overexerted, he just loses the ability to properly maintain his "form", which we can assume is usually autonomic in most circumstances. Not unlike marathon runners whose muscles give out on them due to exhaustion.

 

[Ellenate]

1. His hardness gets softer? He doesn't becomes a slime when tired. What i meant is nothing seems to imply his rubber hand is softer than an actual hand.
2. Normal Luffy would be "gear 1"? Just his regular stretch etc
3. Maybe in real world physics. But Luffy is not real. He is "magical". He is a fantastic being not tied to the laws of our reality. How else would gear 3 makes sense? He just blows air into his body. How would snake man be practical? Changing direction blows?? And also, the problem you mentioned, everybody would chop off his limbs.
4. Thanks.

1. You guys keep preaching about this hardness- prove it. if he could make himself harder to some substantial degree, it would've come up by now.

2. He's not huffing and puffing on the ground after one stretch but it's obviously going to be more taxing/slower than him just punching someone. If this is about regular luffy punch versus fruit luffy punch. Regular should be stronger due to being made of a harder material.

3. My assertion of his fruit preforming poorly in battle was based off of previous encounters he has had. How real world physics could play a role in coming to that conclusion is beyond me... You have to actually confirm MY reasoning, not just make up your own, and counter it. Otherwise you end up pointlessly rambling.

4. Your welcome.


again being made of rubber is good for defense but it weakens his offense. he has to twist every drop of water out of the rag to get an increase of strength with it. if he'd just let his df play defense and focus on haki for offense he'd be way stronger. until a hopefully good awakening his df has stunted his development.

 

[Fox666]

How could he damage Kaido with just basic CoC ?

Zoro sliced Kaido before, and Kaido did not say anything about CoC

Again One Piece wikia lists him as an AdCoC user.

My mom says otherwise.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You have to actually confirm MY reasoning, not just make up your own, and counter it.

"You see, I'm making an entirely baseless claim. It up to YOU to confirm my reasoning." - You

 

[HereNThere]

again being made of rubber is good for defense but it weakens his offense. he has to twist every drop of water out of the rag to get an increase of strength with it. if he'd just let his df play defense and focus on haki for offense he'd be way stronger. until a hopefully good awakening his df has stunted his development.

Fairly certain you're trolling because your argument makes so sense and we have multiple instances of in story moments where Luffy's physical ability has been highlighted. Nevermind the fact that Luffy's mastery of haki is already formidable enough to allow him to clash and defeat a Billion Beli Haki master and make a Yonkou bleed.

I mean, really? Stunted his development?

 

[Ellenate]

Fairly certain you're trolling because your argument makes so sense...

I mean, really? Stunted his development?

You're whole post reads like a comprehension deficit-

Yes, stunted his development. Do i really need to repeat things multiple times for you to undertand?

we have multiple instances of in story moments where Luffy's physical ability has been highlighted.

There's instances of usopp being useful in battle, doesn't prove he's not dead weight most of the time.

Anyway-

Nevermind the fact that Luffy's mastery of haki is already formidable enough to allow him to clash and defeat a Billion Beli Haki master

Luffy hasn't beat anyone of note, since lucci, without some plot shenanigans.

He's almost always depicted as underpowered and inconsistent.

make a Yonkou bleed.

Chopper made a yonko commander bleed... does that prove anything substantial?

With all the help luffy was getting he better had done something of worth.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Fairly certain you're trolling because your argument makes so sense and we have multiple instances of in story moments where Luffy's physical ability has been highlighted. Nevermind the fact that Luffy's mastery of haki is already formidable enough to allow him to clash and defeat a Billion Beli Haki master and make a Yonkou bleed.

I mean, really? Stunted his development?

Luffy with his weak rubber pushing away 2 buildings with pure physicality.

Something a non rubber Zoro couldn't do and actually needed Chopper to give him a sword to do.

I'm shook at the logic behind this one lol

 

[HereNThere]

You're whole post reads like a comprehension deficit-

Yes, stunted his development. Do i really need to repeat things multiple times for you to undertand?

Ah cool, so you are just trolling. Good to know. But I'll play along for now.

BTW, you just commented on @Pirate Queen manner of posting, but now you're doing the same thing for no discernable reason.

There's instances of usopp being useful in battle, doesn't prove he's not dead weight most of the time.

Anyway-

Usopp ain't got shit to do with your initial argument nor Luffy's fruit. But since you brought him up, yes, there are instances of Usopp showing off he isn't dead weight. But there are also instances where he and others acknowledge said dead weight.

On the flip side, we have instances upon instances to pull from that show Luffy's physical strength (such as the one posted above), yet no panels showing Luffy's fruit stunting or weakening him in any way, nor do we have statements from Oda stating the same. We have more evidence pointing towards the fact that Devil Fruits, no matter what the ability, add to someone's strength no matter what.

Luffy hasn't beat anyone of note, since lucci, without some plot shenanigans.

He's almost always depicted as underpowered and inconsistent.

It's almost like the opponents he's fighting are getting stronger or something and Luffy and his crew are lagging slightly behind. It took years for some of the strongest characters to reach the point where Luffy is. The fact that he (and his crew) have grown to the point they are currently at is a miracle in itself. He's been fighting end-game level opponents since he left Dressrosa. He's not at the level to solo anyone like that just yet.

Chopper made a yonko commander bleed... does that prove anything substantial?

With all the help luffy was getting he better had done something of worth.

Last I checked, Queen wasn't Kaido, aka the man who has a history of not being harmed or injured by any normal means. The very same Kaido who praised Luffy for finally reaching that level to where he could do damage to him. One of those feats is more significant than the other. And one of those feats is only capable of being done when one is highly proficient in haki, which Luffy is, meaning that he doesn't need to solely focus on haki because he's already on the path to becoming one of the top haki users in the world.

Point is, Luffy's fruit doesn't weaken him in any way, shape, or form, nor does he need to focus solely on haki, especially when he's on the path to becoming one of the foremost users.

 

[XXGenesis]

Note they're literally synonyms.

Lol during my re-read after I post I noticed that lol.....Post wasn’t all that articulate, it was a rant post.

But yea Ellente is trolling. It’s hard to even follow the root of the argument he’s making; overall it’s heavy bias & prefrenced in Luffy’s performance Post Time Skip.