One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LaGOAT]

wait who are we talking about fighting Blackbeard and potential fight against Shanks?



I kind of get the non-DF Luffy being stronger than DF Luffy, given how bad Luffy was at fighting with his fruit when he was a kid.

Yes we are Im saying that the reason Blackbeard was Hesitant to Shanks cuz he is fresh and no1 on battlefield was yonko level and/or was 100% (In his eyes)

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2021, Original Post Date: May 27, 2021 ---

Well......we have people saying the Admirals = Yonko, Akainu > All of WB Pirates + Crocodile, so let's do the math.

We have 5 Admiral level (garp and sengoku) versus BBP + WBP + RH Pirates.
We've seen how 1 Yonko can easily take down a YC1 level.
So say Aokiji and Kizaru take on Shanks and the RHP, the admirals would win given Admiral = Shanks, 2 Admirals > Shanks
BBP vs Garp and Sengoku who said they would deal with them so Garp + Sengoku > BBP.

So going by those calculations, the Marines would have taken way more casualties, but hey they wouldve taken 2 Yonko crews, 1 future Yonko
it would have been a win win win for the Marines.
Going by the logic of Admirals = Yonko.

I dont go by that logic.

Also, Non DF Luffy would be weaker than even Sanji. I say this because the Gears are the power ups for Luffy. Base Luffy even with ADV CoA and Future CoO, was able to hurt Kaido yes, but he was overconfident, and he is not as fast as he would be in G2 or G4. Sanji should be as fast as G2. Sanji hard diff Current Base Luffy, also since Luffy would have no DF, no Rubber defense, Sanji's kicks would hurt him more.

Thanks to his DF, he was able to defeat Rob Lucci (gears).

But me and u don’t go by that logic so that irrelevant im assuming that u believe yonko>admirals 2. I’m saying that all the admirals and the marines ain’t 100% so if they have continue the fight it would a major problem plus they have deal with another crew BBP who just would fight both marines and shanks crew.

 

[roggie]

Debatable as he'd have probably found a different fighting style. Plus, he did lose to Sabo and Ace because he didn't have control over his rubber body, not because he was weak (though it's up for debate if he was weaker than them).

Yeah, sure. Storywise Oda could make him stronger, he could've taken different decisions, could've evolved differently etc

But weren't Luffy shot a good number of times?

How would he defeat Crocodile? There were some water (and blood) techniques that could be somehow substituted? a big maybe.

Would he defeat Lucci? Without gear 2nd.

Above all, how would Luffy manage to defeat Enel?

IMO luffys rubber body gave him more opportunities to output more power faster and to withstand more pummelling. And more than once he needed each and every one of those opportunities. And still barely triumphed.

 

[Ellenate]

Yeah, sure. Storywise Oda could make him stronger, he could've taken different decisions, could've evolved differently etc

he only really needs to survive until thriller bark (the boss there is made easier if he's not rubber)... i think it's doable. even with no heavy rewrites and it's just him fighting smarter.

How would he defeat Crocodile? There were some water (and blood) techniques that could be somehow substituted? a big maybe.

was his df even a factor in that fight?

Would he defeat Lucci? Without gear 2nd.

Considering that he stole soru (one of lucci and friends 6 techniques). i see no reason why he couldn't have taken the other abilities if more motivated.

Had luffy bothered, he could've been flying in pre with geppo, instead of waiting til gear 4's gimped version years later.

Above all, how would Luffy manage to defeat Enel?

Nami/luffy combo. with the plethora of gold laying around, nami's knowledge of the weather, they could've pulled off something.


---


after those hurdles, he learns haki with rayleigh, and it doesn't matter anymore.

 

[XXGenesis]

What has King done to make you think Katakuri isn't stronger? Genuinely curious

Have a higher Bounty above 1Billion; that he shares with his other commander level Beast Pirates.

While Katakuri is The sole BMP hype 1Bil Bounty commander. While the others have high respectable bounties.

Then how the Marines addressed Yassop & Beckman.

So Fans ranking; We gave Katakuri VC1 lv because of his position. When it turns out he may just be VC2 Strength when compared to the real VC1 lv commanders....I personally would push back all of BMP commander lv

As you mentioned with King. King possibly is only VC2 lv imo also, but he has opportunity to change my mind.

The Real VC1 Commanders imo are Yassop, Beckman, Marco, Vista, Luffy (Pre advanced CoC)

I simply ignore them now.
Well we rank the Yonko Commanders by what seems appropriate, but of course within their own rankings, they may not be entirely equal.
YC1- YC3 or YC4 is a good tier list to place characters appropriately. Before that, it was harder to accurately gauge a character's PL.
Warlords are just to random to have a tier list
VA's are a good example, but even within the VAs there are weak and strong.
So YC tier list is great.

Initially, I personally don't think Katakuri is that strong compared to the other YC1s, BUT that is because I am heavily biased using his bounty and how he was the first YC1 to be defeated.
His bounty is just a little bit higher than Jack's, that's why I initially thought Kata was around Queen's level and weaker than the rest of the YC1s.

King is hard to properly gauge but he should be stronger than Queen even if it's by a bit.
I don't see Katakuri stronger than Marcos.
Beckman, I do not bother to rank but I assume he is YC1.
Shiyruu (if he is the right hand man of BB) well he is a tough one to rank, people like to think he is because he has a sword and will most likely fight Zolo, that is what some people think. We'll see.
Marcos has been able to push the Admirals more than anyone else besides WB of course. So I place Marcos as the strongest YC1 also because of his experience fighting the Roger Pirates and being on WB's ship for so long.

I agree, I share the same sentiments on the bounties, story progression and character portrayals.

VC1-vc4 isn’t a bad ranking system. I think we had commanders placed all wrong, thinking every 1st mate & following were almost equal to each other in the different Yonkou groups.

So my opinion at the moment is this.
BMP
Dogtooth VC2
Smoothie VC3
Cracker VC3
Snack VC4
Perospero**VC4

Kaidou
King VC2
Queen VC2
Jack VC3

WBP
Marco VC1
Vista VC1.5/VC2
Jozu VC3
Ace VC3

Others
Luffy VC1.5/1 (CoC)
Sabo VC2
Zoro VC2
Law VC2
Kidd VC2
Doflamingo VC3.5
Apoo VC3
Urouge VC4+
XDrake VC3.5

 

[M3J]

Yeah, sure. Storywise Oda could make him stronger, he could've taken different decisions, could've evolved differently etc

But weren't Luffy shot a good number of times?

How would he defeat Crocodile? There were some water (and blood) techniques that could be somehow substituted? a big maybe.

Would he defeat Lucci? Without gear 2nd.

Above all, how would Luffy manage to defeat Enel?

IMO luffys rubber body gave him more opportunities to output more power faster and to withstand more pummelling. And more than once he needed each and every one of those opportunities. And still barely triumphed.

Luffy let himself be shot though because he knew he could take it. If he couldn't, he might have tried to dodge.

Other than that though, we mostly agree. I'm not saying he'd be better, just that he wouldn't be as weak as one would think without his fruit.

 

[mangaempire29]

Zoro > Kid > Marco

 

[LaGOAT]

Have a higher Bounty above 1Billion; that he shares with his other commander level Beast Pirates.

While Katakuri is The sole BMP hype 1Bil Bounty commander. While the others have high respectable bounties.

Then how the Marines addressed Yassop & Beckman.

So Fans ranking; We gave Katakuri VC1 lv because of his position. When it turns out he may just be VC2 Strength when compared to the real VC1 lv commanders....I personally would push back all of BMP commander lv

As you mentioned with King. King possibly is only VC2 lv imo also, but he has opportunity to change my mind.

The Real VC1 Commanders imo are Yassop, Beckman, Marco, Vista, Luffy (Pre advanced CoC)



I agree, I share the same sentiments on the bounties, story progression and character portrayals.

VC1-vc4 isn’t a bad ranking system. I think we had commanders placed all wrong, thinking every 1st mate & following were almost equal to each other in the different Yonkou groups.

So my opinion at the moment is this.
BMP
Dogtooth VC2
Smoothie VC3
Cracker VC3
Snack VC4
Perospero**VC4

Kaidou
King VC2
Queen VC2
Jack VC3

WBP
Marco VC1
Vista VC1.5/VC2
Jozu VC3
Ace VC3

Others
Luffy VC1.5/1 (CoC)
Sabo VC2
Zoro VC2
Law VC2
Kidd VC2
Doflamingo VC3.5
Apoo VC3
Urouge VC4+
XDrake VC3.5

why is vista so high on ur list?

 

[Ramen]

why is vista so high on ur list?

One of the best swordsman in the world.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Zoro > Kid > Marco

Ehhh Marco was actually fighting big mum one on one on his own and she called for an outside assist
And she actually ducked Marco , that says a lot about him , not to say she wouldn’t win but that’s a testament to his strength
She isn’t even worried about facing kidd at all and has laughed off all his attacks , though I think he’s gonna become more effective at inflicting damage at them during this fight
Ehhh Marco is still stronger than Zoro

 

[albertwv]

So my opinion at the moment is this.
BMP
Dogtooth VC2
Smoothie VC3
Cracker VC3
Snack VC4
Perospero**VC4

Kaidou
King VC2
Queen VC2
Jack VC3

WBP
Marco VC1
Vista VC1.5/VC2
Jozu VC3
Ace VC3

Others
Luffy VC1.5/1 (CoC)
Sabo VC2
Zoro VC2
Law VC2
Kidd VC2
Doflamingo VC3.5
Apoo VC3
Urouge VC4+
XDrake VC3.5

Pretty solid list not going to lie.
Im assuming the .5 means in between, (Vista is 1.5 so he is in between YC1 and YC2)
Luffy is YC1 for sure
Jozu is YC2 i rank him slightly higher than Vista but it could be a tie.
Apoo no way is a YC3, he is barely a YC4, no reason to put him that high.
Drake can barely be YC3, hope to see more of him.
Doffy is YC3 tied with Cracker
Sabo is YC2, people like to put him in YC1 but I dont see Sabo being that strong
King is a mystery
Zolo, Kid and Law are YC2, that is great. Still think Zolo > Kid = Law
Smoothie is a tough one all we can do is go by her bounty and place her as a YC3 because shes in between Kata and Cracker but she doesnt seem all that powerful so yes YC3 is perfect for her right now

 

[Ramen]

King is a mystery

Shouldn't he be by default be a YC1?

 

[GL_Nova]

Luffy has left YC1 behind and securely stepped into Yonko territory. I say that because this was a base Luffy who did the majority of that damage to Kaido and got him so hyped up. He hadn’t even really utilized his gears yet. When Luffy makes his triumphant return, he still hasn’t even made G2&3 big parts of this match up yet. When he starts stacking his new Haki’s on those for real!?! Red Rock shoulda given folks a clue to what’s coming. Luffy is a genuine monster now.

Also, I am aghast about the arc so far. This was supposed to break OP wide open. At this moment, I live in a world where Mashima delivers on his hype (DG broke the verse) and Oda isn’t living up to the hype just yet.. Ocean Sovereignty didn’t break anything in OP except the Zoro/Sanji rivalry fans. I was expecting Kaido to shatter the power ceiling and I demand to be made right. Otherwise OP risks really capping at a ridiculously low level for its length and popularity. Always too strong for new and regular series, but too weak to ever really best it’s brothers and competitors. Please let this ocean nonsense be the set up OP needs to go really wild.

--- Double Post Merged, May 28, 2021, Original Post Date: May 28, 2021 ---

Wow. Why am I still seeing Sabo hate like he wasn’t sparring with Admirals to break in his brand new fucking fruit lmmfao.

 

[M3J]

What difference would Gears 2 and 3 make though? Isn't Gear 4 a combination of both gears but dialed up?

 

[mangaempire29]

Ehhh Marco was actually fighting big mum one on one on his own and she called for an outside assist
And she actually ducked Marco , that says a lot about him , not to say she wouldn’t win but that’s a testament to his strength
She isn’t even worried about facing kidd at all and has laughed off all his attacks , though I think he’s gonna become more effective at inflicting damage at them during this fight
Ehhh Marco is still stronger than Zoro

Marco never damaged a Yonko tho unlike Kid and Zoro who did multiple times. And both Kid and Zoro both tanked attacks from both Kaido and Big Mom.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Marco never damaged a Yonko tho unlike Kid and Zoro who did multiple times. And both Kid and Zoro both tanked attacks from both Kaido and Big Mom.

Kidd actually hasn’t damaged a yonkou yet out of all the supernovas he’s been the most disappointing on that end
He can eat their attacks and is fast and strong enough to not get molly whopped but he’s not done anything but slam kaido and throw metal arrows at big mum , he’s been surprisingly ineffective
Big mum literally said she doesn’t have souls to waste on him , probably the biggest compliment you can pay to a character , she saw fighting him as too much strength
Also in reality it was a brief skirmish , big mum didn’t damage Marco either

 

[Fox666]

Kidd actually hasn’t damaged a yonkou yet out of all the supernovas he’s been the most disappointing on that end
He can eat their attacks and is fast and strong enough to not get molly whopped but he’s not done anything but slam kaido and throw metal arrows at big mum , he’s been surprisingly ineffective
Big mum literally said she doesn’t have souls to waste on him , probably the biggest compliment you can pay to a character , she saw fighting him as too much strength
Also in reality it was a brief skirmish , big mum didn’t damage Marco either

According to Kid, he would damage Kaido by crushing him... Indeed, Kaido did comment they all had the means to damage him, after Kid tossed him around.

The same is probably true for slamming Big Mom's face on the floor... clearly she could have died by the fall when the castle in Whole Cake exploded.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

According to Kid, he would damage Kaido by crushing him... Indeed, Kaido did comment they all had the means to damage him, after Kid tossed him around.

The same is probably true for slamming Big Mom's face on the floor... clearly she could have died by the fall when the castle in Whole Cake exploded.

That was his assumption but that’s useless
Please kaido fell from the sky and big mum literally laughed off his attacks
He needs to level up the quality of his attacks

 

[XXGenesis]

Pretty solid list not going to lie.
Im assuming the .5 means in between, (Vista is 1.5 so he is in between YC1 and YC2)
Luffy is YC1 for sure
Jozu is YC2 i rank him slightly higher than Vista but it could be a tie.
Apoo no way is a YC3, he is barely a YC4, no reason to put him that high.
Drake can barely be YC3, hope to see more of him.
Doffy is YC3 tied with Cracker
Sabo is YC2, people like to put him in YC1 but I dont see Sabo being that strong
King is a mystery
Zolo, Kid and Law are YC2, that is great. Still think Zolo > Kid = Law
Smoothie is a tough one all we can do is go by her bounty and place her as a YC3 because shes in between Kata and Cracker but she doesnt seem all that powerful so yes YC3 is perfect for her right now

Thank you.

Kidd,Law & Zoro are even imo. Zoro does stand out. But I can’t take the haters hating so I’ll hold back on a 1.5 rating for Asura.

I wouldn’t tie Cracker & Doffy because of Cracker’s superior Haki...Doffy had very high endurance & stamina but not enough offensive power over G4....G4 seems to be auto VC2 strength at least 2.5, because Katakuri did over power him with Mochi block.

Shouldn't he be by default be a YC1?

Luffy has left YC1 behind and securely stepped into Yonko territory. I say that because this was a base Luffy who did the majority of that damage to Kaido and got him so hyped up. He hadn’t even really utilized his gears yet. When Luffy makes his triumphant return, he still hasn’t even made G2&3 big parts of this match up yet. When he starts stacking his new Haki’s on those for real!?! Red Rock shoulda given folks a clue to what’s coming. Luffy is a genuine monster now.

Also, I am aghast about the arc so far. This was supposed to break OP wide open. At this moment, I live in a world where Mashima delivers on his hype (DG broke the verse) and Oda isn’t living up to the hype just yet.. Ocean Sovereignty didn’t break anything in OP except the Zoro/Sanji rivalry fans. I was expecting Kaido to shatter the power ceiling and I demand to be made right. Otherwise OP risks really capping at a ridiculously low level for its length and popularity. Always too strong for new and regular series, but too weak to ever really best it’s brothers and competitors. Please let this ocean nonsense be the set up OP needs to go really wild.

--- Double Post Merged, May 28, 2021, Original Post Date: May 28, 2021 ---

Wow. Why am I still seeing Sabo hate like he wasn’t sparring with Admirals to break in his brand new fucking fruit lmmfao.

 

[Fox666]

Please kaido fell from the sky

Hmm that sounds like a plot-hole actually. Why it seemed like Big Mom would have died of a fall on Whole Cake?

 

[mangaempire29]

Kidd actually hasn’t damaged a yonkou yet out of all the supernovas he’s been the most disappointing on that end
He can eat their attacks and is fast and strong enough to not get molly whopped but he’s not done anything but slam kaido and throw metal arrows at big mum , he’s been surprisingly ineffective
Big mum literally said she doesn’t have souls to waste on him , probably the biggest compliment you can pay to a character , she saw fighting him as too much strength
Also in reality it was a brief skirmish , big mum didn’t damage Marco either

Marco got rocked from one Garp punch. Zoro and Kid tanked multiple attacks from Yonkos (with killing intent), they even blocked a few attacks. Kid did damage Kaido wym? Kaido called the supernova captain trio "monsters."