One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[thedude]

Wait your right you didn’t agree with me. I’m confusing with another member who has a better gauge at power scailing.

Your post is very contradictory. You say Katakuri isn’t weaker than other YC but then say of course there’s a pecking with Beckman on top.....Okkkk

Never did I say there’s a clear distinction.
I’m not ranking Katakuri & King on the same tier as Marco or Ben Beckman. Because of Beckman’s hype & Marco finally showing off his hype.




No he can’t. His strings couldn’t slice through G4 Luffy.

Only way Luffy Busted Cracker’s Cracker Doll’s was with his G4.

Cracker unlike Doffy could hurt G4 Luffy with his Haki.

Luffy had the power not the stamina/Endurance in G4 to defeat Cracker; Nami weakening his DF is how Luffy got the win. Doffy may have the stamina/endurance but not the power.

This is why I cannot rate Doffy YC3; There’s a clear difference; no matter how beastly Doffy’s Stamina/Endurance for punishment is. He lacks the firepower. Manipulating others helps via Jozu but won’t settle the fight

You are twisting words. My words mean what they say - just because a character is beaten in an earlier arc, that doesn't mean he is necessarily weaker than those in a later arc. In this case, Katakuri being beaten on WCI before Wano doesn't say anything about his strength compared to Marco or King or any other VC.

That means...exactly that. It doesn't mean that he cannot be stronger or weaker, only that the logic of "well, he was beaten first means he is weaker" doesn't hold. For all we know Luffy would wreck the other VC1's with less trouble since they don't have FS like Katakurri.

 

[albertwv]

You are twisting words. My words mean what they say - just because a character is beaten in an earlier arc, that doesn't mean he is necessarily weaker than those in a later arc. In this case, Katakuri being beaten on WCI before Wano doesn't say anything about his strength compared to Marco or King or any other VC.

That means...exactly that. It doesn't mean that he cannot be stronger or weaker, only that the logic of "well, he was beaten first means he is weaker" doesn't hold. For all we know Luffy would wreck the other VC1's with less trouble since they don't have FS like Katakurri.

That is half true, we've seen countless times that that pattern holds true, especially in Shonen. Usually the first to fall/or be introduced to the main character is weaker than the rest. Crocodile at that time was weaker, Moria definetly is weaker, Jack is weaker than the rest, Page One seems to be the weakest F6, Cracker seems to be the weakest among the Sweet 3, Doffy is weaker than Cracker, etc. That is usually the case.
I dont think Katakuri is that strong compared to Marco or Beckman, idk about King.

 

[thedude]

That is half true, we've seen countless times that that pattern holds true, especially in Shonen. Usually the first to fall/or be introduced to the main character is weaker than the rest. Crocodile at that time was weaker, Moria definetly is weaker, Jack is weaker than the rest, Page One seems to be the weakest F6, Cracker seems to be the weakest among the Sweet 3, Doffy is weaker than Cracker, etc. That is usually the case.
I dont think Katakuri is that strong compared to Marco or Beckman, idk about King.

The pattern usually holds true, but Katakurri was a Luffy villain, he isn't fighting VC's anymore, so he could be seen as "strongest VC before Yonko, to put Luffy at that level", while the other YC's losing won't put Zoro or Sanji at the level to beat Kaido.

to state it more clearly:

Luffy beat Katakuri, and is now at the level to beat Kaido or BM.

If Sanji beats Queen, or Zoro beats King, they are not going to be at the level to beat Kaido or BM.

 

[HereNThere]

I think the way Mingo uses his strings makes him so versatile, he can be both a long range and short range fighter. He cna easily distance himself to gain better defense against Cracker. Plus we know he could use awakening, not sure if Cracker could...

You do make a fair point regarding Cracker, i will agree that he's higher than YC3 level, whatever that definition is. He's definitely a challenge to fight but if we compare power levels like Zoro does, Cracker would be worth 2000 men and Mingo would be 2300 men... Against each other is hard to pitch in.

Technically, we don't know the range of Cracker's control over his biscuits, so range might not be an issue. Nevermind that he's only limited to his imagination in what he creates. The only thing Doffy can for sure do that Cracker can't is fly, but I don't see that helping him when he needs to so big damage to wreck Cracker's soldiers.

I don't think we need to have stuff like high or low YC3. That just muddies things up. Cracker is a YC3 just like Jack. The lowest totem on the scale of Commanders (unless you want to add in YC4). I just don't see Doffy on that level due to the way things have been presented after his role in the story. He's versatile and has a complete mastery of his fruit, but everything else just doesn't seem up to snuff.

Had he been a member of the Beast Pirates like Oda wanted, I'm fairly certain he'd still be under Jack. Just above most of the Flying Six.

 

[hokageji]

I don't think we need to have stuff like high or low YC3. That just muddies things up. Cracker is a YC3 just like Jack. The lowest totem on the scale of Commanders (unless you want to add in YC4). I just don't see Doffy on that level due to the way things have been presented after his role in the story. He's versatile and has a complete mastery of his fruit, but everything else just doesn't seem up to snuff.

i'll reserve my comments for another time in that case when i have the time to write up a long detailed scenario of how their matchup would look like...

To summarize Mingo:
insane DF versatility
awakening
CoC
ability to come out any scenario (should've died with Law's attack)
was able to bring an entire nation to its knees while fighting multiple opponents

Cracker's greatest defense is the biscuits... otherwise, he was outdone in one punch.... He has no resilience..

 

[HereNThere]

Cracker has similarly insane versatility. It wasn't focused on much due to Cracker's limited panel time, but it was enough to push Luffy to the brink. He had to run away from Cracker for hours until he was finally in a position to take him down. And that's only with Nami's help with her making it rain and using Big Mom's vivre card to control the Seducing Woods homies.

Awakening is beneficial, but I don't see it packing the necessary punch to break through the biscuits. Luffy himself was able to overpower the awakened strings that Doffy created.

CoC isn't much of a plus in this fight. If Doffy had ACoC like Luffy, Kaido, or Big Mom, he'd be in a perfect position to beat Cracker.

That was more plot than a quality, lol.

Cracker could probably do the same given his soldiers.

Versatility is good, but, in my opinion, Doffy just lacks the raw strength to take on Cracker.

 

[albertwv]

Here we go again with the Cracker vs Doffy. It is a good argument on both sides, but my choice would be Cracker. It sucks how Oda off paneled most of the fight, it was disappointing and to see Luffy take down Cracker in only one hit, lame. Now im not saying Luffy was able to One Hit KO Cracker, because that wasnt the case.
Who I really wanted to see from the BM pirates instead of the weaker ones, was Bobbin, he looked promising and for Sanji and Gotti to take him out was disappointing. I wanted to see Compote fight since shes the oldest daughter, Smoothie show her true abiliities, and Snack.
Among the YC levels there are high and low
Doffy could be YC3 low while Jack could be YC3 High
Kata is YC1 low and Marco YC3 high

 

[XXGenesis]

So only with an DF advantage he is on that level?

I would strongly assume so. Overall it’s a strong logia ability that’s pretty destructive:

He countered Kuzan perfectly during Marineford. But we do know that Kuzan’s limit’s are higher as he fought with Akianu who has a stronger DF than Ace.

You are twisting words. My words mean what they say - just because a character is beaten in an earlier arc, that doesn't mean he is necessarily weaker than those in a later arc. In this case, Katakuri being beaten on WCI before Wano doesn't say anything about his strength compared to Marco or King or any other VC.

That means...exactly that. It doesn't mean that he cannot be stronger or weaker, only that the logic of "well, he was beaten first means he is weaker" doesn't hold. For all we know Luffy would wreck the other VC1's with less trouble since they don't have FS like Katakurri.

I didn’t go back enough pages or I never posted that I agree with the statements. But your statement holds incorrect due to story telling in how your phrasing it.

No Luffy wouldn’t wreck the other 1st Mate. Katakuri vs Luffy resulting in Luffy’s win has a lot to do with Katakuri respecting and liking Luffy.

Katakuri in comparison to other 1st Mates is fine. Not many or viewing him weaker, if anything they see him stronger because of his FS.

However the Marines & WG have hyped Marco pre TS & then Beckman & Yassop.

now we see why King is not stronger than Marco because he can’t take the advantage being assisted by Queen. That says a lot.

So the true 1st mate class should be reserved for those around that tier, close to the Yonkou but above majority of the commanders

 

[Fox666]

So only with an DF advantage he is on that level?

Ace can counter Aokiji's freezing without issues.

However, Aokiji probably has mastered his Devil Fruit to a greater degree that Ace. When it comes to the more creative applications of the abilities, Aokiji would get the upper hand.

Besides, Aokiji physical strength and Haki is far superior than Ace. If they get in close combat, Aokiji could defeat Ace without much problem.

 

[Ellenate]

Ace can counter Aokiji's freezing without issues.

However, Aokiji probably has mastered his Devil Fruit to a greater degree that Ace. When it comes to the more creative applications of the abilities, Aokiji wouldget the upper hand.

Besides, Aokiji physical strength and Haki is far superior than Ace. If they get in close combat, Aokiji could defeat Ace without much problem.

but...

if they get into close combat, ace burns him alive.

 

[Fox666]

but...

if they get into close combat, ace burns him alive.

Their abilities negate each other.

If they get close enough, what would matter is Haki.

 

[XXGenesis]

I get Zoans have high recovery rate. But this is ridiculous. Even Jack took a few chapters to heal. Why the *#*^* is Ulti back up attacking.....Damn Oda Power Levels aren’t consistent. I’m tired of trying to make sense of shit....It even makes Big Mom look bad, tsk tsk tsk.

Idk if it’s a false presumption the fandom had; but either way it’s to convoluted & hazy. Yonkou’s attacking lesser Pirates should mostly be a 1 shot. Especially Named techniques.

 

[Ellenate]

Their abilities negate each other.

If they get close enough, what would matter is Haki.

They don't.

Fire melts ice- and that's the end of the relationship.

If aokiji is stupid enough to engage in close-range combat he's getting turned into a puddle.

 

[Fox666]

Fire melts ice- and that's the end of the relationship.

That's not how the show portrays it, they were both equally matched.

 

[XXGenesis]

They don't.

Fire melts ice- and that's the end of the relationship.

If aokiji is stupid enough to engage in close-range combat he's getting turned into a puddle.

Ace doesn’t match up to Akainu.
Yet Akoji is almost his equal.
I’m sure Akoji can generate more Ice than Ace can generate Fire. Which would result in Akoji eventually freezing Ace

 

[Ellenate]

Ace doesn’t match up to Akainu.
Yet Akoji is almost his equal.
I’m sure Akoji can generate more Ice than Ace can generate Fire. Which would result in Akoji eventually freezing Ace

When magma hits something cool it becomes rock.

Akainu is actually a better match up for aokiji than ace is.

There's nothing Aokiji can do to ace.

 

[XXGenesis]

When magma hits something cool it becomes rock.

Akainu is actually a better match up for aokiji than ace is.

There's nothing Aokiji can do to ace.

I wouldn’t apply real life physics and laws of nature to a fictional work of art that you didn’t create; It doesn’t apply.

Akianu’s Magma already hit the water during Marineford. It created no such rock formations. Nor did Akainu’s & Akoji battle at Punk Hazard create any extra island formations, it simply split the weather of the island......Via my 1st post.

Ace can counter Akoji but not indefinitely. I believe it becomes a match of Stamina/Range of Power...Akoji easily has more range than Ace with his DF.

 

[Ellenate]

I wouldn’t apply real life physics and laws of nature to a fictional work of art that you didn’t create; It doesn’t apply.

y'all latch onto these arguments and just keep repeating them...

If a creator doesn't lay down clear rules for his universe, we (the readers) are free to interpret them however we want.

 

[LaGOAT]

y'all latch onto these arguments and just keep repeating them...

If a creator doesn't lay down clear rules for his universe, we (the readers) are free to interpret them however we want.

bro stop the cap aokiji>ace even with the elemental advantage

 

[kkck]

Luffy straight up said that Cracker's haki was stronger than any one else's he'd faced at that point in time. That was followed through with Cracker piercing Luffy's Gear 4 form, which Doffy couldn't do. So I don't see Doffy's strings slicing through Cracker's biscuits.

Parasite is a threat, but there's nothing stopping Cracker from just, you know, turning his clones back to crumbs.

The way Jack spoke about him and Big Mom's reasoning for sending Cracker, it really doesn't seem like he's YC3 level.

I can see doflamingo musoing his way through cracker's army (while cracker simply replenishes it endlessly). But that ignores the bigger issue at hand. The cracker army is annoying but it's by no means main asset. cracker is simply incredibly strong in general. His one weakness is being a bit of a glass cannon by his own admission but beyond that the guy is physically strong, extremely fast and his swordsmanship is at least good enough to cut through luffy's gear 4 like butter. Gear 4 luffy simply overpowered doflamingo, plain and simple. Doflamingo was pretty much a ragdoll to gear 4 luffy. Meanwhile cracker was actually able to engage gear 4 luffy in close range combat and not get immediately owned.