One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

I don't think he could get past Whitebeard's defense too, or at least younger Whitebeard. His CoO also seemed to be Future Sight, based on how he could tell when he was being attacked and when someone (Luffy) would protect him. Wonder if it was basic CoO during the war or if Oda did think of Future Sight at that time.

I think Future Sight was a thing already in Skypiea and Enel was not the only user.

In fact, the first time mantra/CoO was showcased by an enemy it was by Satori, who laughed at Luffy for having the power of stretching his limbs before Luffy threw his first attack and it was implied that he saw seconds into the future.

Spoiler: Satori

I think skypieans capable of CoO are just naturally better at it than most users.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I think Katakuri could injure Kaido. Even ignoring the possibility that Katakuri has ACoC, I feel that his haki should have been developed enough for his Trident to do some damage.

I doubt he'd push Kaido to any major level of difficulty, but I think he'd last a little longer than Luffy did due to his fruit and experience.

And I think if he'd been a part of the RT5, they're performance would've been improved by a decent amount.

Katakuri hasn’t demonstrated flow or imbuing with haki so no he can’t injure kaido
Heck kaido gets genuinely confused when people can injure him
Also he’d also get one or 2 shot just like luffy did
Unless his trident is ranked weapon

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 24, 2021 ---

I don't think he could get past Whitebeard's defense too, or at least younger Whitebeard. His CoO also seemed to be Future Sight, based on how he could tell when he was being attacked and when someone (Luffy) would protect him. Wonder if it was basic CoO during the war or if Oda did think of Future Sight at that time.

Whitebeard in his prime likely had future sight
It seemed like he could use it casually in his sleep
Ace tried to assassinate him while he was dead asleep and he easily countered it
I think Marco implies it too

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I think Future Sight was a thing already in Skypiea and Enel was not the only user.

In fact, the first time mantra/CoO was showcased by an enemy it was by Satori, who laughed at Luffy for having the power of stretching his limbs before Luffy threw his first attack and it was implied that he saw seconds into the future.

Spoiler: Satori

I think skypieans capable of CoO are just naturally better at it than most users.

I think it's just basic CoO that Satori & Enel used. Luffy was able to use attacks that he himself didn't know would land like ricochets or when causing the ordeal balls to just go around randomly to bypass their CoO. Only basic CoO ties the intention of the attacker as a core part of the its predictive power.

Future sight works regardless of intention since it is a vision of the literal future so ricochets etc wouldn't be a way to bypass it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 24, 2021 ---

Katakuri hasn’t demonstrated flow or imbuing with haki so no he can’t injure kaido
Heck kaido gets genuinely confused when people can injure him
Also he’d also get one or 2 shot just like luffy did
Unless his trident is ranked weapon

I don't think flow is necessary to hurt Kaido if someone is just that physically strong. CoA haki is just an enhancer to base strength so for all we know Katakuris peerless donut attacks may be able to hurt Kaido. They were as strong if not stronger than Luffy's G4 attacks so he might have enough raw power to at least tickle Kaido. As far as getting one shot or not, I tink Katakuri probably can avoid the attacks a lot better than Luffy since he is pretty good at dodging (he was able to dodge mamba gattling attack). Kaido definitely wins the fight but he probably would have a super annoying time.

Whitebeard in his prime likely had future sight
It seemed like he could use it casually in his sleep
Ace tried to assassinate him while he was dead asleep and he easily countered it
I think Marco implies it too

I think Oda just didn't display these abilities well pre-time skip. I'd hardly count the WB of 4 (assuming Ace made it to NW 1 year after setting sale) years ago someone in his prime so the whole sleep situation if it was future sight was just magically gone during Marine Ford. My opinion is other strong fighters were also just all proficient enough fighters that even with FS a person isn't going to have an easy time.

 

[Nie Li]

I think it's just basic CoO that Satori & Enel used. Luffy was able to use attacks that he himself didn't know would land like ricochets or when causing the ordeal balls to just go around randomly to bypass their CoO. Only basic CoO ties the intention of the attacker as a core part of the its predictive power.

Future sight works regardless of intention since it is a vision of the literal future so ricochets etc wouldn't be a way to bypass it.

Are we 100% sure future sight isn't tied to intention? I honestly just see it as a way of interpreting the intention of the opponent so accurately that you actually get to "see" the future, but I never thought of it as a technique that straight up allows to look into the future without any connection to how normal CoO works, just like a more advanced version of it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Are we 100% sure future sight isn't tied to intention? I honestly just see it as a way of interpreting the intention of the opponent so accurately that you actually get to "see" the future, but I never thought of it as a technique that straight up allows to look into the future without any connection to how normal CoO works, just like a more advanced version of it.

Katakuri straight up saw Gear 4th tho. If it was based on intention I don't think he would have known what it was all abouy

 

[Nie Li]

Katakuri straight up saw Gear 4th tho. If it was based on intention I don't think he would have known what it was all abouy

But isn't that like Satori seeing Gomu Gomu no Pistol and commenting on it before knowing Luffy was elastic? Luffy was probably just thinking "Imma punch this fatty in the face".

 

[Pirate Queen]

But isn't that like Satori seeing Gomu Gomu no Pistol and commenting on it before knowing Luffy was elastic? Luffy was probably just thinking "Imma punch this fatty in the face".

Did he predict the stretch or the punch? Honestly I haven't read Skypeia in 5 years

 

[Nie Li]

Did he predict the stretch or the punch? Honestly I haven't read Skypeia in 5 years

He predicted the stretch.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Are we 100% sure future sight isn't tied to intention? I honestly just see it as a way of interpreting the intention of the opponent so accurately that you actually get to "see" the future, but I never thought of it as a technique that straight up allows to look into the future without any connection to how normal CoO works, just like a more advanced version of it.

I think future sight is the only one that allows the user to visually see the future in their minds eye. I think normal CoO doesn't actually show a mental visual of the future, just more of a 6th sense on what conscious beings will do in the next moment. Like Pirate Queen mentioned, Kata seeing the G4 form itself or that whole scene with Jigra at the beginning of the Tea Party are far more than anything we'd seen before. The only example I can think of pre-time skip was when Luffy saw a vision of Mihawk cutting his arms off.

 

[Nie Li]

I think future sight is the only one that allows the user to visually see the future in their minds eye. I think normal CoO doesn't actually show a mental visual of the future, just more of a 6th sense on what conscious beings will do in the next moment. Like Pirate Queen mentioned, Kata seeing the G4 form itself or that whole scene with Jigra at the beginning of the Tea Party are far more than anything we'd seen before. The only example I can think of pre-time skip was when Luffy saw a vision of Mihawk cutting his arms off.

It's a bit confusing that Luffy's first use of CoO was pretty future sightish. That also makes me think it's just a more advanced version of basic prediction CoO (I say prediction because there seem to be like 3 different types of basic CoO).

 

[Pirate Queen]

He predicted the stretch.

Then I think you would be accurate. Idk how else it could be explained

 

[DeadlyBeast]

He predicted the stretch.

Hm that is interesting. Maybe the only difference is intentionality of attacks might not matter with advanced version (Katakuri was able to know the collapse of WC chateau wouldn't destroy the town when it was falling even though Stressuen wasn't near him. Guessing he saw his own future where the chateu turned into mush). Otherwise if future sight also needs intent, I'd be confused as to why same methods Luffy used against COO users in the past wouldn't have worked against Kata.

It's a bit confusing that Luffy's first use of CoO was pretty future sightish. That also makes me think it's just a more advanced version of basic prediction CoO (I say prediction because there seem to be like 3 different types of basic CoO).

Yeah i'm starting to think the same. COO is so varied that its weird advanced version only enhances one aspect. Maybe we'll see advanced users of the other varieties e.g. heightened emotion sensing to the point of reading minds etc.

 

[HereNThere]

Katakuri hasn’t demonstrated flow or imbuing with haki so no he can’t injure kaido
Heck kaido gets genuinely confused when people can injure him
Also he’d also get one or 2 shot just like luffy did
Unless his trident is ranked weapon

The argument could be made. Someone pointed out that Katakuri had mentioned that there are stages of haki beyond hardening and Luffy's hands were throbbing in pain. Fast forward to chapter 1009, Kaido hit a Luffy defending using Hardening and Luffy's hands were similarly throbbing like they were against Katakuri. And in the very next chapter, we had the reveal of ACoC.

Kaido is confused when people he deems weak injure him. Which is something that's understandable. Especially when you literally stomped a hole in them days ago, only for them to come back packing heat like legends. To him, The Supernova are still just kids. Hell, I'd say he respected the Scabbards more than he did the Supernova, even though the Supernova did the most damage in the long run. I imagine he'd give Katakuri some respect given that he's proven himself as a Pirate and is a known name.

I highly doubt he would. Aside from his more consistent use of FS, Katakuri's fruit would allow him to potentially dodge more of Kaido's moves. Luffy won the fight, but Katakuri was still closer to Kaido than Luffy was at Wano's start. At least, in my opinion. Especially given that Katakuri handicapped himself during said fight and, potentially, gave Luffy the win at the end.

Whether or not his Trident is ranked, his haki should make up for it.

 

[M3J]

I think Future Sight was a thing already in Skypiea and Enel was not the only user.

In fact, the first time mantra/CoO was showcased by an enemy it was by Satori, who laughed at Luffy for having the power of stretching his limbs before Luffy threw his first attack and it was implied that he saw seconds into the future.

Spoiler: Satori

I think skypieans capable of CoO are just naturally better at it than most users.

HOnestly, it's confusing because Luffy showed that too on Sabaody. I feel like Oda just copied that and made the user able to look one or two more seconds ahead. I'm not sure about Sanji when Katakuri flicked that bean at him though, but it seems possible.

 

[I Am Atomic]

I personally think Katakuri will fare against Kaido pretty well. Kaido is a punching bag. All Katakuri has to do is awakening and then wrap Kaido in Mochi. It's sticky, and we haven't seen anyone overpower through its stickiness.

I am hoping that CoA has different branches of mastery, flow being one. Just like how CoO has different branches (Fujitora and Katakuri).
Will explain why Katakuri's haki was able to hurt Luffy.

 

[Ricko]

I think Oda just didn't display these abilities well pre-time skip. I'd hardly count the WB of 4 (assuming Ace made it to NW 1 year after setting sale) years ago someone in his prime so the whole sleep situation if it was future sight was just magically gone during Marine Ford. My opinion is other strong fighters were also just all proficient enough fighters that even with FS a person isn't going to have an easy time.

Marco said that WB loosed power during Marine Ford, just few time ago Squard should never touch him or surprise him. That clearly show that age and health greatly affect future sight.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Marco said that WB loosed power during Marine Ford, just few time ago Squard should never touch him or surprise him. That clearly show that age and health greatly affect future sight.

I guess maybe he just had some disease is all and even in the span of 4 years it really took its toll on him. Being old definitely did a number on him but there are other old people from his era like Garp, Sengoku, Rayleigh that don't seem to need all that IV stuff just to live.

 

[Fox666]

In One Piece world, old age doesn't necessarily makes someone weak. That's most likely not the case of Whitebeard, and it was only his disease that affected him.

It seems the disease affected Whitebeard agility, not his CoO. Going by what Marco said, seeing the attack was not the problem, but dodging it. Squard is just a 200 million pirate, normally Whitebeard should have been so fast that Squard couldn't even see him.

 

[XXGenesis]

Everybody had jokes…Zoro’s having trouble with Gifters lol….Same Gifters everybody one shorted are back up and fighting lol

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

In One Piece world, old age doesn't necessarily makes someone weak. That's most likely not the case of Whitebeard, and it was only his disease that affected him.

It seems the disease affected Whitebeard agility, not his CoO. Going by what Marco said, seeing the attack was not the problem, but dodging it. Squard is just a 200 million pirate, normally Whitebeard should have been so fast that Squard couldn't even see him.

Nah old age definitely affected his ability to use haki attacks and techniques
He couldn’t use conquerors at will to save ace more COO to prevent squardo
Heck young WB armament probably reduces considerably the damage he takes at WB
Heck the WB that ace fought saves ace and probably gets away with him

I personally think Katakuri will fare against Kaido pretty well. Kaido is a punching bag. All Katakuri has to do is awakening and then wrap Kaido in Mochi. It's sticky, and we haven't seen anyone overpower through its stickiness.

I am hoping that CoA has different branches of mastery, flow being one. Just like how CoO has different branches (Fujitora and Katakuri).
Will explain why Katakuri's haki was able to hurt Luffy.

Kaido can turn into a dragon and literally generate slicing thunder storms the useless Mochi ain’t holding
He’s levitating a whole island
And the massive boro boro breath
It’s an incredible mismatch on every level

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2021 ---

Jinbei respect chapter