One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[john ellis]

i'm somewhat surprized kaido's fodder doesn't know luffy has a 1.5b bounty. Luffy probably has a top 10 bounty of any pirate on the seas. I wouldn't be surprized if the average kaido fodder has more then 70-100k bounty. Gifters miught have up to 200k. But like surely you see the "5th emperor of the sea" and be like... well thats a job for a flying six or calamity. Which like we know as readers, luffy in his current state could only be beaten by an actual emperor... but kaido's forces should atleast know he's atleast commander tier. Which i think you could argue flying 6= low commander tier. On par with whitebeard's commanders. I think you could also make arguement that queen and jack are both actually mid or second commander tier. Even if jack is weaker then queen, jack should logically be on par if not stronger then smoothie, where queen is certainly stronger then smoothie. But both on the same tier.

Future arguement for the flying six to be low commander tier, is who's who fought against jinbe and atleast forced one of his strongest attacks out and to coat his body in haki. Jinbe was a high tier warlord and the high tier warlords have been shown to be atleast low commander tier if not mid commander tier. Also storywise Jack being second commander tier on average and the flying six thinking they stand a chance against him also logically puts them as low commander tier. Like would it be a surprize if a member of the flying 6 took down snack? Probably not right?

now nami did beat a flying 6 member so does that make her commander tier? well no she had big mom's help in the fight and alot of favourable situations happened. Nami is probably on par with luffy when he fought against crocodile atm. Maybe i'm not giving her enough credit, but she hasn't really shown anything major. Also i think luffy beating crocodile is very respectable. A rookie who came out of the weakest sea instantly taking down a warlord? Like thats pretty insane when you come to think about it. I'd wager crocodile can actually defeat most pirates in the new world. Like supernova's and yonko commander tier level opponents aside? Do you really think many new world pirates have a chance vs crocodile?

Also future evidence is ulti, took a named raged attack from big mom, admitably got servely injured but wasn't knocked out. Which even compared to luffy, who was 1st commander tier at the time he entered wano he got instant knocked out from an emperor named attack. That said zoan durabillity is probably a factor.... so

 

[Rmstorm]

i'm somewhat surprized kaido's fodder doesn't know luffy has a 1.5b bounty. Luffy probably has a top 10 bounty of any pirate on the seas. I wouldn't be surprized if the average kaido fodder has more then 70-100k bounty. Gifters miught have up to 200k. But like surely you see the "5th emperor of the sea" and be like... well thats a job for a flying six or calamity. Which like we know as readers, luffy in his current state could only be beaten by an actual emperor... but kaido's forces should atleast know he's atleast commander tier. Which i think you could argue flying 6= low commander tier. On par with whitebeard's commanders. I think you could also make arguement that queen and jack are both actually mid or second commander tier. Even if jack is weaker then queen, jack should logically be on par if not stronger then smoothie, where queen is certainly stronger then smoothie. But both on the same tier.

Future arguement for the flying six to be low commander tier, is who's who fought against jinbe and atleast forced one of his strongest attacks out and to coat his body in haki. Jinbe was a high tier warlord and the high tier warlords have been shown to be atleast low commander tier if not mid commander tier. Also storywise Jack being second commander tier on average and the flying six thinking they stand a chance against him also logically puts them as low commander tier. Like would it be a surprize if a member of the flying 6 took down snack? Probably not right?

now nami did beat a flying 6 member so does that make her commander tier? well no she had big mom's help in the fight and alot of favourable situations happened. Nami is probably on par with luffy when he fought against crocodile atm. Maybe i'm not giving her enough credit, but she hasn't really shown anything major. Also i think luffy beating crocodile is very respectable. A rookie who came out of the weakest sea instantly taking down a warlord? Like thats pretty insane when you come to think about it. I'd wager crocodile can actually defeat most pirates in the new world. Like supernova's and yonko commander tier level opponents aside? Do you really think many new world pirates have a chance vs crocodile?

Also future evidence is ulti, took a named raged attack from big mom, admitably got servely injured but wasn't knocked out. Which even compared to luffy, who was 1st commander tier at the time he entered wano he got instant knocked out from an emperor named attack. That said zoan durabillity is probably a factor.... so

Luffy started out overpowered, which is why he steamrolled everyone in the east blue and was stronger than majority of the people in paradise, from day 1.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

i'm somewhat surprized kaido's fodder doesn't know luffy has a 1.5b bounty. Luffy probably has a top 10 bounty of any pirate on the seas. I wouldn't be surprized if the average kaido fodder has more then 70-100k bounty. Gifters miught have up to 200k. But like surely you see the "5th emperor of the sea" and be like... well thats a job for a flying six or calamity. Which like we know as readers, luffy in his current state could only be beaten by an actual emperor... but kaido's forces should atleast know he's atleast commander tier. Which i think you could argue flying 6= low commander tier. On par with whitebeard's commanders. I think you could also make arguement that queen and jack are both actually mid or second commander tier. Even if jack is weaker then queen, jack should logically be on par if not stronger then smoothie, where queen is certainly stronger then smoothie. But both on the same tier.

Future arguement for the flying six to be low commander tier, is who's who fought against jinbe and atleast forced one of his strongest attacks out and to coat his body in haki. Jinbe was a high tier warlord and the high tier warlords have been shown to be atleast low commander tier if not mid commander tier. Also storywise Jack being second commander tier on average and the flying six thinking they stand a chance against him also logically puts them as low commander tier. Like would it be a surprize if a member of the flying 6 took down snack? Probably not right?

now nami did beat a flying 6 member so does that make her commander tier? well no she had big mom's help in the fight and alot of favourable situations happened. Nami is probably on par with luffy when he fought against crocodile atm. Maybe i'm not giving her enough credit, but she hasn't really shown anything major. Also i think luffy beating crocodile is very respectable. A rookie who came out of the weakest sea instantly taking down a warlord? Like thats pretty insane when you come to think about it. I'd wager crocodile can actually defeat most pirates in the new world. Like supernova's and yonko commander tier level opponents aside? Do you really think many new world pirates have a chance vs crocodile?

Also future evidence is ulti, took a named raged attack from big mom, admitably got servely injured but wasn't knocked out. Which even compared to luffy, who was 1st commander tier at the time he entered wano he got instant knocked out from an emperor named attack. That said zoan durabillity is probably a factor.... so

Makes sense if they’ve been stationed in wano for ages
Super isolated place

 

[john ellis]

they know zoro and sanji are big shots though? surely luffy has atleast 500k bounty to them.

 

[HereNThere]

They probably do, but they also know Kaido washed him early on. They probably assume his bounty is inflated and he's just another rookie too big for his britches. Their opinion on the opposition is likely influenced by his and if he doesn't take it seriously, they won't.

Even Queen, despite acknowledging that Sanji and Zoro were the main pillars after Luffy, assumed that they could easily be taken down to disrupt the crew.

 

[LadyVados]

So the Gomu Gomu no is some sort of super devil fruit ?

That means it’s a huge amp and without it Luffy would probably be weaker than East Blue Zoro !

 

[hokageji]

So the Gomu Gomu no is some sort of super devil fruit ?

That means it’s a huge amp and without it Luffy would probably be weaker than East Blue Zoro !

i think Luffy was weaker than east blue zoro even with his DF.... but cant make the same argument anymore.. with advanced forms of all 3 haki

 

[Nie Li]

So the Gomu Gomu no is some sort of super devil fruit ?

That means it’s a huge amp and without it Luffy would probably be weaker than East Blue Zoro !

That's some olympic level gymnastics, eh. We don't know yet what makes gomu gomu special, if anything makes it special, but we know it's not exactly an instant-buffing DF.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

i think Luffy was weaker than east blue zoro even with his DF.... but cant make the same argument anymore.. with advanced forms of all 3 haki

I don’t think there was any proof of this at all in the least , at the very least from arlomg smd
Their fight on whiskey peak they were equal

the fruit at least from the jump makes you more bullet proof and immune to punches , maybe it aids recovery

 

[M3J]

You're aware that if Luffy didn't have the gomu gomu no mi, he'd still be strong in other ways? He'd still train to get stronger, but he'd have to be more careful until he learns CoA haki because he'd actually get wounded.
Plus one can argue gomu gomu no mi hindered him initially, as he lost to Ace and Sabo all the time because he couldn't control his rubber body.

 

[Ellenate]

I read that oda didn't want luffy's fruit to be too powerful but more on the silly side (as not to have him be strong)...

Which i odd considering gomu made him pretty overpowered (albeit just defensively) in the earlier portions of the story. Not to mention that compared to other fruit abilities, it's pretty low on the "wacky" scale.

Moments of dissonance with oda #1

 

[hokageji]

I don’t think there was any proof of this at all in the least , at the very least from arlomg smd
Their fight on whiskey peak they were equal

the fruit at least from the jump makes you more bullet proof and immune to punches , maybe it aids recovery

wait, i thought Zoro was trying to attack him without a fatal damage of any sort....Zoro was in a pretty bad shape in Arlong Park, so you can't consider that...

Luffy with his DF was strong but you cannot prove he was weaker than Zoro either... Anyways, the whole thing of gomu gomu no mi being a super fruit made Luffy superior is itself a dumb argument in my opinion.... he did train well with it, but nothing suggests its superiority in east blue..

 

[XXGenesis]

That's some olympic level gymnastics, eh. We don't know yet what makes gomu gomu special, if anything makes it special, but we know it's not exactly an instant-buffing DF.

I’m not using semantics, the argument that’s being stated I don’t believe is being probably stated.

Devil Fruits IMO no matter what the power is, is a Buff. It gives you a particular ability that more than likely can’t be copied or Replicated.

Gomu Gomu instantly gives you extreme durability, other abilities we see come later with practice & ingenuity.

 

[HereNThere]

Volume 65 SBS, Page 46:

D: In the ONE PIECE of these days, all kinds of strong ability users whom even Luffy can't compete with have been appearing, one after the other. In general manga and anime, I feel that the protagonist is established to be the strongest of all, but why did you decide to turn Luffy into a pretty weak-looking rubber Devil Fruit user? P.N. Do your best Japan

O: Ahaha, that is true. It must seem like a mystery when you consider all the other strong and cool abilities. The answer is simple. I have picked the most ridiculous ability. If the protagonist were the typical strong guy, I doubt I could continue on with this for long. No matter how serious the story gets, Luffy is there to stretch and inflate. He always give me a chance to fool around. That's the kind of manga I wanted to write.

It's really not that deep. Luffy's fruit is stupid and seemingly non threatening by design. It's not a super power up, especially compared to other fruits that offer an obvious power up. As stated a billion and 9 times in the series, it's the fruit user who makes the fruit stronger, not the fruit itself.

It's highly unlikely that the WG wanted the fruit solely because of its power.

 

[M3J]

I’m not using semantics, the argument that’s being stated I don’t believe is being probably stated.

Devil Fruits IMO no matter what the power is, is a Buff. It gives you a particular ability that more than likely can’t be copied or Replicated.

Gomu Gomu instantly gives you extreme durability, other abilities we see come later with practice & ingenuity.

It doesn't give you extreme durability, that's all Luffy. Gomu gomu no mi does make it harder to hurt you though, which is why blunt attacks and bullets barely do anything unless there's more power behind them.

 

[XXGenesis]

It doesn't give you extreme durability, that's all Luffy. Gomu gomu no mi does make it harder to hurt you though, which is why blunt attacks and bullets barely do anything unless there's more power behind them.

Semantics because you know what durability I’m referring to in relation to the Gomu gomu.

you just felt the need to be super clear!??

 

[M3J]

Semantics because you know what durability I’m referring to in relation to the Gomu gomu.

you just felt the need to be super clear!??

Darn tootin'. We're not about to take Luffy's positives away from him

 

[GL_Nova]

Well depends if they send gion and tokikake , the vice admirals who were considered for promotion to admirals , they also had code names like the rest of the admirals ( mousagi and chaton ) which for me means they’re both serious business combat wise , I think either could likely capture Hancock if it came to it , but nothing less than an admiral ans a bunch of soldiers for Hancock , the kuja tribe isn’t easy to deal with

Where you find out about them?

 

[Fox336]

Where you find out about them?

They where shown in Chapter 907 the first time and the info about both being considered admirals is from one of the SBS of volume 75 :3

 

[thedude]

You're aware that if Luffy didn't have the gomu gomu no mi, he'd still be strong in other ways? He'd still train to get stronger, but he'd have to be more careful until he learns CoA haki because he'd actually get wounded.
Plus one can argue gomu gomu no mi hindered him initially, as he lost to Ace and Sabo all the time because he couldn't control his rubber body.

Right. Like, Ace was strong, beat Luffy all the time without a DF. Shanks, Garp, etc. Luffy would be strong without the DF. He'd just fight differently.