One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[hokageji]

Jinbei was a shichibukai for a long time... he is sure to be insanely strong... I think Zoro will reach or exceed those levels post wano but pre wano there's no way Zoro is greater than Jinbei.

 

[jaymizzo]

I mean Zoro has feats that outclasses Jimbei’s...But sure, let’s just say our opinions differ.

Zoro has what now?

So far, Jinbei has showcased against a Yonkou and defeated a F6.

Zoro has one feat that stands out which is causing a scar against Kaido.

I think Jinbei > Zoro but as you said, opinions differ.

 

[slavkovski]

Have you guys watch the newest One Piece 984 anime? It show's Zoro using what it seems like a Conquerors Haki.. is it 100% confirmed that Zoro has it now?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Have you guys watch the newest One Piece 984 anime? It show's Zoro using what it seems like a Conquerors Haki.. is it 100% confirmed that Zoro has it now?

What? Lol did it really? Like Toei showing Sanji use Hardening even tho he hasn't used it in the manga yet?

Bruh that's silly and would totally ruin the Rooftop moment.

What episode is it?

 

[slavkovski]

What? Lol did it really? Like Toei showing Sanji use Hardening even tho he hasn't used it in the manga yet?

Bruh that's silly and would totally ruin the Rooftop moment.

What episode is it?

The recent one, episode 984

 

[Pirate Queen]

It's a bit different but yeah that's CoC lol

Toei really loves spoiling Anime only fans

 

[Crimson Ice]

Zoro has what now?

So far, Jinbei has showcased against a Yonkou and defeated a F6.

Zoro has one feat that stands out which is causing a scar against Kaido.

I think Jinbei > Zoro but as you said, opinions differ.

Jinbei knocked back a starving Big Mam and did no damage along with blocking Cognac. Jinbei's showcase was nice, but all the rooftop Supernova have better showings.

Zoro blocked attacks from a non-starving Big Mam along with bypassing Kaido's defenses on two separate occasions. And it's funny how you gloss over him scarring Kaido; that outclass anything Jinbei has done.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Jinbei knocked back a starving Big Mam and did no damage along with blocking Cognac. Jinbei's showcase was nice, but all the rooftop Supernova have better showings.

Zoro blocked attacks from a non-starving Big Mam along with bypassing Kaido's defenses on two separate occasions. And it's funny how you gloss over him scarring Kaido; that outclass anything Jinbei has done.

Scarring Kaido is impressive but it didn't even knock Kaido down. He shrugged it off and said it was Zoro shouldn't feel bad because it "Did enough", that's it.

Zoro scarring Kaido doesn't translate to anything powerscaling wise. Bypassing Kaido's defense is only showing the fighter learned how to work around his seemingly invulnerable body. Multiple people have done that already.

Luffy is NEVER going to scar Kaido. That doesn't translate to Luffy being weaker than Zoro.

And people forget Fishman Karate manipulates the water in one's body to deal damage so it's very likely Jinbei could equally bypass Kaido's defenses. Again he wouldn't scarring Kaido, but that's not hoe his power works

 

[john ellis]

i highly disagree with the above comment. managing to scar kaido with haki is a direct power level threat and nothing more. Zoro having strong enough haki to damage an extremely powerful haki user such as kaido. Is simply a combat feat. 99% of all one piece charatchers wouldn't have the haki strong enough to hurt kaido currently. Therefore Zoro is in the top 1% of haki users strength wise. Now the type of wound? yes luffy probably won't scar kaido because of the blunt force attacks he uses. But that simply doesn't matter. Just because they're different attack styles doesn't disqualify the other as a power feat. If i destory a ,moon by punching it, or slashing it into 100 million pieces. What i've done is a moon level power feat in 2 different ways. Just because the types of action i used to achieve said outcome is different doesn't make the feats any different. Both Luffy and zoro have haki strong enough to deal lasting damage to kaido.


Does Jinbei have Haki strong enough to actually do lasting damage to a yonko? Probably not, his attacks somewhat can bypass the defense of someone but there is a difference between being able to bypass someone's defense and having enough attack power to hurt them. Like i can't logically see jinbei's attack actully hurting a yonko, Knock them back, annoy them yes 100%. Actually do lasting damage no? If jinbei had the attack power to actually hurt a yonko he should low dif a flying Six, and mid to low dif king or queen.

 

[Pirate Queen]

i highly disagree with the above comment. managing to scar kaido with haki is a direct power level threat and nothing more. Zoro having strong enough haki to damage an extremely powerful haki user such as kaido. Is simply a combat feat. 99% of all one piece charatchers wouldn't have the haki strong enough to hurt kaido currently. Therefore Zoro is in the top 1% of haki users strength wise. Now the type of wound? yes luffy probably won't scar kaido because of the blunt force attacks he uses. But that simply doesn't matter. Just because they're different attack styles doesn't disqualify the other as a power feat. If i destory a ,moon by punching it, or slashing it into 100 million pieces. What i've done is a moon level power feat in 2 different ways. Just because the types of action i used to achieve said outcome is different doesn't make the feats any different. Both Luffy and zoro have haki strong enough to deal lasting damage to kaido.


Does Jinbei have Haki strong enough to actually do lasting damage to a yonko? Probably not, his attacks somewhat can bypass the defense of someone but there is a difference between being able to bypass someone's defense and having enough attack power to hurt them. Like i can't logically see jinbei's attack actully hurting a yonko, Knock them back, annoy them yes 100%. Actually do lasting damage no? If jinbei had the attack power to actually hurt a yonko he should low dif a flying Six, and mid to low dif king or queen.

I disagree. It's only a combat feat against enemies like Kaido who are damn near impossible to hurt. What was impressive is that he hurt someone who seemingly cannot be hurt. The damage output was not impressive. But that goes for 99.99% of everything that Kaido has been hit by.

Outside of Luffy's CoC attacks Kaido hasn't really felt anything and even that wasn't enough to even slow Kaido down.

Are you implying Zoro could low diff King or Queen? you can't be serious.

And your moon comparison is false equivalence. If the moon was indestructible and you managed to destroy because you found a way to actually damage the moon when no one else could... that is not a powerlevel feat because if you gave this unknown technique to someone else equivalent to you they would be equally able to destroy the moon. It's HOW you destroyed the moon that's impressive which is why Zoro cutting Kaido is so impressive. He FOUND a way to scar Kaido through means of Enma

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Jul 26, 2021 ---

Zoro is in the top 1% of all haki users tho. I agree with you, there is no doubt in my mind.

Zoro is more EFFECTIVE at fighting Kaido than say Kidd or Law but that by no means he's stronger than either of them just because he can hurt Kaido but they can't. Match ups are everything in one piece

 

[Crimson Ice]

Scarring Kaido is impressive but it didn't even knock Kaido down. He shrugged it off and said it was Zoro shouldn't feel bad because it "Did enough", that's it.

Zoro scarring Kaido doesn't translate to anything powerscaling wise. Bypassing Kaido's defense is only showing the fighter learned how to work around his seemingly invulnerable body. Multiple people have done that already.

Luffy is NEVER going to scar Kaido. That doesn't translate to Luffy being weaker than Zoro.

And people forget Fishman Karate manipulates the water in one's body to deal damage so it's very likely Jinbei could equally bypass Kaido's defenses. Again he wouldn't scarring Kaido, but that's not hoe his power works

Scarring Kaido is really impressive, only he and Oden has done that. I will admit he didn't do as much as Luffy but was immensely impressive regardless.

Scarring Kaido is definitely impressive. Most characters who have harmed Kaido have failed to damage him enough to even show visible wounds. Kaido himself stresses this when the Scabbards couldn't even re-open his old wound.

Dunno why Luffy is being brought up. I know Luffy does more, but the discussion is about Jinbei.

Jinbei couldn't even harm a staving Big Mam, why do you think he's hurting Kaido? Even if he could who says he's doing more than someone like Killer or Kidd? Jinbei's feats just aren't up to snuff with Zoro's.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Scarring Kaido is really impressive, only he and Oden has done that. I will admit he didn't do as much as Luffy but was immensely impressive regardless.

Scarring Kaido is definitely impressive. Most characters who have harmed Kaido have failed to damage him enough to even show visible wounds. Kaido himself stresses this when the Scabbards couldn't even re-open his old wound.

Dunno why Luffy is being brought up. I know Luffy does more, but the discussion is about Jinbei.

Jinbei couldn't even harm a staving Big Mam, why do you think he's hurting Kaido? Even if he could who says he's doing more than someone like Killer or Kidd? Jinbei's feats just aren't up to snuff with Zoro's.

This is a power level discussion and I was equating visible damage to none visible damage. Luffy, like Jinbei, attack just as effectively as weapon users.

Jinbei has equivalent feats to Zoro. Just because you can't see the damage he causes doesn't mean he isn't causing damage

That's internal damage, your just saying Jinbei couldn't harm her because you can't SEE the damage, which is terrible assessment of damage overall.

Law used Counter Shock on Big Mom, it caused damage but you can't see the damage so people like you brush it off, but that damage is doing something.

The fact that Kaido didn't even react to Zoro's attack tells us its no different than anyone attack not done by CoC Luffy.

But you being too visual. And if you want to go that way, Jinbei's punch sent BM to the sea a far distance away, Zoro didnt even move Kaido an inch. If we are using your measurement of power then I could easily say it proves Jinbei is stronger than Zoro... but I know better.

 

[Fox666]

At least against Wadatsumi, it was clear the technique was causing internal damage, since the shockwave was released from the other side...

 

[Pirate Queen]

At least against Wadatsumi, it was clear the technique was causing internal damage, since the shockwave was released from the other side...

All of Fishman karate deals with the manipulation of water within and outside the body.

"According to Jinbe, the secret of Fish-Man Karate is mastery of the water in the user's direct vicinity, using its power to send powerful waves impacting the water within the opponent's body. Because every creature has a high percentage of water in their body, the users of Fish-Man Karate are able to battle opponents that are usually highly resistant (if not immune) against blows and punches."
Resistant to blows and punches = Kaido

Jinbei would certainly make the list of people that can hurt Kaido without Advanced CoC.

@fox66sorry didn't mean to rply to you directly, just supplementing what you wrote

 

[Crimson Ice]

This is a power level discussion and I was equating visible damage to none visible damage. Luffy, like Jinbei, attack just as effectively as weapon users.

Jinbei has equivalent feats to Zoro. Just because you can't see the damage he causes doesn't mean he isn't causing damage

Please, we have visual indicators for damage when people are hit with blunt and internal force. Luffy punched Kaido and he spit out blood, Jinbei did nothing to Big Mam outside of pushing her back. Even if I agreed he did the damage is still not equal to Zoro as Big Mam was in a starved state.

That's internal damage, your just saying Jinbei couldn't harm her because you can't SEE the damage, which is terrible assessment of damage overall.

Please, we have visual indicators of people doing blunt and internal damage. You're assuming Jinbei hurt her because it suits your argument, not because there is evidence supporting that.

Law used Counter Shock on Big Mom, it caused damage but you can't see the damage so people like you brush it off, but that damage is doing something.

Big Mama screamed in pain when Law did that, I know. It's good for me we're not discussing Law then.

The fact that Kaido didn't even react to Zoro's attack tells us its no different than anyone attack not done by CoC Luffy.

Didn't react or just got tagged? And it clearly did more than Killer and Law who just made him spit up a bit of blood. Zoro did more damage to Kaido than everyone not named Luffy.

But you being too visual. And if you want to go that way, Jinbei's punch sent BM to the sea a far distance away, Zoro didnt even move Kaido an inch. If we are using your measurement of power then I could easily say it proves Jinbei is stronger than Zoro... but I know better.

Pushed her back and did no damage lol. This point only stands somewhat if you ignore that Big Mam is weakened.

 

[Ramen]

I'd say Zoro can definitely be put in the category against other first commanders but I don't think he beats Marco or Beckmann yet. He could compete with Katakuri and I don't know about King until we see him fight.

 

[M3J]

Without Future Sight or speed, Zoro would lose to Katakuri unless he can outsmart Katakuri. Future Sight is too hax.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Please, we have visual indicators for damage when people are hit with blunt and internal force. Luffy punched Kaido and he spit out blood, Jinbei did nothing to Big Mam outside of pushing her back. Even if I agreed he did the damage is still not equal to Zoro as Big Mam was in a starved state.



Please, we have visual indicators of people doing blunt and internal damage. You're assuming Jinbei hurt her because it suits your argument, not because there is evidence supporting that.



Big Mama screamed in pain when Law did that, I know. It's good for me we're not discussing Law then.



Didn't react or just got tagged? And it clearly did more than Killer and Law who just made him spit up a bit of blood. Zoro did more damage to Kaido than everyone not named Luffy.



Pushed her back and did no damage lol. This point only stands somewhat if you ignore that Big Mam is weakened.

Please, we have visual indicators for damage when people are hit with blunt and internal force. Luffy punched Kaido and he spit out blood, Jinbei did nothing to Big Mam outside of pushing her back. Even if I agreed he did the damage is still not equal to Zoro as Big Mam was in a starved state.



Please, we have visual indicators of people doing blunt and internal damage. You're assuming Jinbei hurt her because it suits your argument, not because there is evidence supporting that.



Big Mama screamed in pain when Law did that, I know. It's good for me we're not discussing Law then.



Didn't react or just got tagged? And it clearly did more than Killer and Law who just made him spit up a bit of blood. Zoro did more damage to Kaido than everyone not named Luffy.



Pushed her back and did no damage lol. This point only stands somewhat if you ignore that Big Mam is weakened.

Me:Jinbei's attack is internal so you won't see physical signs of it as he is using the water within one's body to attack.

You: See, Jinbei just pushed Big Mom as there is no sign he hurt her....

Thanks for proving my point


And you say Big Mom wasnt at 100% when Jinbei attacked her but ignore the fact Kaido was not at 100% either when Zoro cut him, dont be a hypocrite now.

 

[hokageji]

Without Future Sight or speed, Zoro would lose to Katakuri unless he can outsmart Katakuri. Future Sight is too hax.

Wait, i thought Zoro's attack on Kaido was with Kaido using future sight? Anyways, that was a quick enough attack to confuse the best, it would work on Katakuri, even if it isnt enough to take him down.

 

[HereNThere]

Zoro new peak potential has the offensive capabilities to match up against First Mates and other Top Tiers, but that alone isn't enough to guarantee victory against some of these characters. Scarring Kaido is an amazing feat, but there is no stopping power behind the hit. He intended to put Kaido on his ass and that didn't happen. So his physical capabilities may not be on the appropriate level to steamroll certain Commanders, be they 1st or 2nd.

The only thing you can safely say Zoro can do to Jinbe is bypass his haki. But are we sure that will take out Jinbe? Are we going to argue that Zoro's physical abilities with a sword are stronger than an admittedly weakened Big Mom, who bypassed Jinbe's haki as well, but didn't take him out for an extended period?

Same thing for Katakuri. How is Zoro sizing up to Future Sight and Mochi intangibility? Katakuri forms his body around attacks. Zoro's not going to be able to easily get a cut in unless he manages to break Katakuri's concentration. And even then, Katakuri still has his trident.

In my opinion, Zoro still has some gaps to fill before we start saying he's definitely above certain confirmed top tiers. Hopefully, a fight with King addresses some of those potential weakpoints.

Wait, i thought Zoro's attack on Kaido was with Kaido using future sight? Anyways, that was a quick enough attack to confuse the best, it would work on Katakuri, even if it isnt enough to take him down.

No confirmation that Kaido knows Future Sight.