One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[FetherMan]

@Lord Traffy Law @Fox666

I just stated the facts written in the series by Oda and gave my opinion on it, which I still stand on. I mean, you can nitpick with a few scenarios here and there, but I highly doubt Kizaru, Aokiji or Akainu, could've defeated Whitebeard by themselves, especially if, he wasn't ill. And to be fair, Whitebeard came to the territory of the Marines, so yeah, do they have an advantage against any Yonkou...?. Of course, but Whitebeard said f**k it, I'm saving Ace no matter what and did his thing.

Much respect to the Goat, he died standing.

 

[albertwv]

That’s head canon and not a retcon , all that wasn’t available was hardening , they did this in marineford , Oda started leaning hard into haki and developing it fast from marineford, to be a vice admiral just at the very base you have to learn how to use haki , the admirals have mastered it
Suddenly dismissing it when Rayleigh performed the same feat a few chapters later to teach luffy what advanced application of haki was ?

No you’re missing my point , just because you can defeat someone doesn’t mean it’s worth it
Do you know what a pyhrric victory is , ? Yes you win the war but the world is so devastated and set back that is it worth it ? The WG is fine with the stalemate , they maintain and protect their allied countries from the most oart
They have day to day responsibilities and duties it’s more than just again fighting the yonkou , they’re stationed all over the world , taking it oart in 4 costly skirmishes where they don’t know the outcome is risky and stupid and would leave their own countries suspectible to revolutionaries and other pirates
It’s simply not just a> b so a has to go after b

Didn’t we see that the navy and the shichibukai go after a ton of other pirates and maintain security , the WG is bigger than the yonkou and existed before them and had responsibilities and jobs before them




1. Taking all 3 admirals to reflect a quake attack
However during marineford akainu ( the man with the highest offensive fruit ) in one piece blocked and countered WB quake powered attacks by himself twice very easily

kizaru literally and causally pinned WB Biden to with one foot

and looks away , and still injured whitebeard and comes from their clash very unscathed hole injuring whitebeard

when they allied up kizaru was ready to lead a force to take on big mum and kaido but again akainu rebuffed cause they didn’t know the fighting capability of the samurais yet they needed gathering intelligence on them , kizaru not fazed , akainu worry isn’t even them either it’s lack of knowledge

the biggest issue with the shichibukai system is that it’s sucks ass the pirates were constantly undermining the WG that was why Fujitora came to do , end a bad system

the world of one piece is much bigger than the NEW WORLD the WG isn’t only worried about that territory where the yonkou control a lot of of even tho they have a lot of territory and bases there

You honestly believe Kizaru could do anything to both Kaido and BM?

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I did mention WB wasn't able to use his advanced CoC because of his health issues. Perfect example is when he wasn't able to use CoC to knock the guards down like Luffy did. Admirals haven't shown advanced CoC, so until then they are below Yonko's.

I’m not saying they have advanced COC but the only way to display was too clash with someone who possessed it , plus we aren’t definitely sure what Oda had plans in regards to that cause whitebeard and shanks swords touched so he he had the ideas but didn’t develop till pre TS, the whitebeard forces only had one dude who could use it in whitebeard and he couldn’t use it at all
The admirals also didn’t even go close to going all out at marineford , neither garp or Sengoku used Advanced COC either at marineford and I’m 99% they both have it or least Sengoku
Advanced COC is an ability that literally just got revealed , and we had big mum use it immediately I’m just saying it’s late stage power up
I’m sure the marines have officers who can use it or a few
]

You honestly believe Kizaru could do anything to both Kaido and BM?

Obviously probably not solo he was gonna lead a task force or a well prepared military expedition for it
Neither akainu nor kizaru seemed fussed about it so at the very least they’re not Afraid of them , the only concern is lack of intelligence on the samurais and their capability so yeah
Obviously not in 2 on 1 Lmao no one can beat them together , but kizaru was fine leading a capable force to face them
Oda is Not a careless writer he writes deliberately , the marines have beefed up their fighting ability

 

[M3J]

The Warlords weren't useless though. Doflamingo did quite a bit of damage to Oars Jr and cut off his leg. He also controlled Jozu and had him attack his own allies. Mihawk was probably the most useless for no reason, but he did delay Luffy in getting to Ace. Moria had the misfortune of losing what shadows he had and whatnot to Luffy few days/weeks prior and fighting against a fishman karate user, as Jinbei could use salt water to take down his zombies. Hancock was also helping Luffy and was there because of him, so it makes sense she didn't put in much effort. Kuma though, no excuse, but Iva is strong, so it makes sense.

Otherwise weren't the Marines doing well prior to Luffy and allies crashing the party?

 

[LaGOAT]

@Lord Traffy Law u keep up bring moments are brief skirmish fights with admirals vs WB that’s like saying yonko commanders=admirals cuz of the same logic I mean Marco and kizaru quite equal same with Jozu and aokiji.

yonko>admirals>YC those are facts

 

[GL_Nova]

they are all advanced haki users , as well as incredible df users, they held back aot during marineford

they can use high level advanced armament haki techniques such as reflecting attacks back, with something as powerful as a quake attack

they can also nullify haki attacks by either using their own haki or shifting around the area of attack

Which proves they have FS themselves

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

@Lord Traffy Law u keep up bring moments are brief skirmish fights with admirals vs WB that’s like saying yonko commanders=admirals cuz of the same logic I mean Marco and kizaru quite equal same with Jozu and aokiji.

yonko>admirals>YC those are facts

If from the skirmishes , the admirals either consistently dealt worse damage to the yonkou they fought than got dealt to them
Except from the short skirmishes in the war the admirals actually won against the YC , when the YC got distracted shots against the admirals they barely did damage or drew light blood when the admirals got their shot in, they took out the YC , except Marco who you know can regenerate and it’s hard to put him down ( even big mum showed it’s super difficult dealing with him ) . Heck just akainu was comfortable fighting a whole bunch of yonkou commanders and had his way
Of the 6 admiral (admiral level dudes ) that have been introduced 2 of them in garp(he’s an admiral in strength he just didn’t want the promotion) and Sengoku were guys who could handle anyone , the OG 3 admirals all fared super well against whitebeard and either drew or came out in better condition , only fujitora for me isn’t quite up to them and we will see how strong he is when he goes all out

And again Blackbeard and his entire crew were fine fighting Sengoku and garp but ran away from just akainu , maybe it was Blackbeard figuring out the fight wasn’t worth it but again it says a lot about akainu

 

[M3J]

yonko>admirals>YC those are facts

It really isn't, when the so-called strongest emperor wasn't able to take out any of the admirals. The emperors are way too overhyped when it comes to versus admirals. Doesn't seem like there's a way to tell who'd win, especially when you consider how Akainu and Kuzan were able to fight for days and apparently survive the injuries they gave each other.

Hell, Doflamingo didn't even want to mess with Kuzan after the Straw Hats left Punk Hazard.

 

[albertwv]

It really isn't, when the so-called strongest emperor wasn't able to take out any of the admirals. The emperors are way too overhyped when it comes to versus admirals. Doesn't seem like there's a way to tell who'd win, especially when you consider how Akainu and Kuzan were able to fight for days and apparently survive the injuries they gave each other.

Hell, Doflamingo didn't even want to mess with Kuzan after the Straw Hats left Punk Hazard.

it really is, the whole story since their introduction by Garp has been that way. They are overhyped for a reason, not unlike the admirals.
WB was sick and not at his best at MF, if anything that proves Yonko > Admiral, if WB put up a great fight versus the admirals. He took a lazer from Kizaru like it was nothing, he did not seem to be struggling to lift his bisento from Kizaru's leg, maybe WB was just distracted watching Luffy rescue Ace.
WB vs the admirals was almost the same as Yonko Commanders vs the admirals.

You mention Doffy vs Kuzan, Doffy was trying to kill Smoker and even after Kuzan told him to leave him, Doffy still went for the kill before he got frozen. Doffy came out unscathed. Yet, he was not terrified by Kuzan and chose not to fight him because although he would have lost, he was not scared of Kuzan compared to Kaido. Doffy was more afraid of what Kaido would do to him than what any admiral or Kuza could do. I doubt if Kaido was there instead of Kuzan that Doffy would have dared moved a muscle.

 

[I Am Atomic]

I’m not saying they have advanced COC but the only way to display was too clash with someone who possessed it ,

Until then, Yonko's are superior. Yes, Sengoku and Garp might have it since they were able to match Roger and WB. However, OG admirals haven't been said to have CoC or match any Yonko at full strength. I will definitely change my opinion when they show that admirals can match Yonko.

Again I tell you. WB was not at 100%. Marco explicitly said that in the manga (not sure how much clearer Oda needs to be). We learn later that WB is a user of all 3 types of haki, but he didn't use it to knock the guards down? Luffy with his weak CoC was able to knock them down. Even Luffy in Fishman Island was only able to knock 50k fishmen, while Rayleigh and Shanks can knock out 100k (revealed in SBS I think). Meaning WB could also knock out 100k. So at MF, WB should have had stronger CoC than Luffy, but he didn't use it but Luffy did?

Again, we should focus on writing than brief skirmishes. 3 admirals, 1 fleet admiral and Garp. But only WB at the opposite. Oda still hyped up WB pirates and not Marines. That's not something you do for a guy who is only equal to an Admiral.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Until then, Yonko's are superior. Yes, Sengoku and Garp might have it since they were able to match Roger and WB. However, OG admirals haven't been said to have CoC or match any Yonko at full strength. I will definitely change my opinion when they show that admirals can match Yonko.

Again I tell you. WB was not at 100%. Marco explicitly said that in the manga (not sure how much clearer Oda needs to be). We learn later that WB is a user of all 3 types of haki, but he didn't use it to knock the guards down? Luffy with his weak CoC was able to knock them down. Even Luffy in Fishman Island was only able to knock 50k fishmen, while Rayleigh and Shanks can knock out 100k (revealed in SBS I think). Meaning WB could also knock out 100k. So at MF, WB should have had stronger CoC than Luffy, but he didn't use it but Luffy did?

Again, we should focus on writing than brief skirmishes. 3 admirals, 1 fleet admiral and Garp. But only WB at the opposite. Oda still hyped up WB pirates and not Marines. That's not something you do for a guy who is only equal to an Admiral.

We’ve only had skirmishes between the OG admirals and a yonkou , and the og admirals came out in better condition for the most part
Oda didn’t hype up the marines , he did but they weren’t the focus , the story was centered around ace luffy and whitebeard during marineford
Whitebeard was hyped , he’d already hyped and built up the marines
Oda hyped up whitebeard , yet the admirals ended up faring much better during the war and against him in their clashes
You brought up the admirals and commanders classing even tho the admirals actually ended up winning those fights and the only who fared better was Marco who even big mum couldn’t put down during a short skirmish , his ability makes him super Tanky
We’ve seen about 5 of the admiral class go toe to with yonkou/pirate king class ( rocks roger wb)
We just got introduced to a new power and even tho we’ve had instances of the admirals matching yonkou that suddenly doesn’t matter , that’s poor writing , this new power doesn’t invalidate the buildup and clashes Oda wrote before
And again using advanced COC doesn’t automatically make you as capable as a yonkou , ie Yamato and luffy

 

[I Am Atomic]

You brought up the admirals and commanders classing even tho the admirals actually ended up winning those fights and the only who fared better was Marco who even big mum couldn’t put down during a short skirmish , his ability makes him super Tanky

I didn't bring up YC into this discussion.

And I did mention WB was sick. Skip the actual argument, why not!

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

it really is, the whole story since their introduction by Garp has been that way. They are overhyped for a reason, not unlike the admirals.
WB was sick and not at his best at MF, if anything that proves Yonko > Admiral, if WB put up a great fight versus the admirals. He took a lazer from Kizaru like it was nothing, he did not seem to be struggling to lift his bisento from Kizaru's leg, maybe WB was just distracted watching Luffy rescue Ace.
WB vs the admirals was almost the same as Yonko Commanders vs the admirals.

You mention Doffy vs Kuzan, Doffy was trying to kill Smoker and even after Kuzan told him to leave him, Doffy still went for the kill before he got frozen. Doffy came out unscathed. Yet, he was not terrified by Kuzan and chose not to fight him because although he would have lost, he was not scared of Kuzan compared to Kaido. Doffy was more afraid of what Kaido would do to him than what any admiral or Kuza could do. I doubt if Kaido was there instead of Kuzan that Doffy would have dared moved a muscle.

and no the admirals decked the YC soundly

kizaru and macro was a stalemate, but guess who else macro could stalemate and frustrated, big mum

while akainu literally took like half of wb's face off , pierced his chest and melted his organs
kizaru pinned his bisento and pierced and walked away unscathed
YC commanders were more not close to the admirals in the war

he didn't take it like it was nothing, wb got mad endurance but he didn't shrug it off, it damaged him, pierced his body and made him cough blood

I didn't bring up YC into this discussion.

And I did mention WB was sick. Skip the actual argument, why not!

oh my bad , thought it was you but was responding to a yonkou > admiral > yc post
so the admirals had an advantage against a weakened WB, as they should , prior to a new power revealed which again we still start to see amongst top tiers in general now , some of the marines will be able to use it

also sabo is crazy underrated to me , him blowing up the colleseum is underrated , it's a large scale use of advanced armament haki

 

[M3J]

it really is, the whole story since their introduction by Garp has been that way. They are overhyped for a reason, not unlike the admirals.
WB was sick and not at his best at MF, if anything that proves Yonko > Admiral, if WB put up a great fight versus the admirals. He took a lazer from Kizaru like it was nothing, he did not seem to be struggling to lift his bisento from Kizaru's leg, maybe WB was just distracted watching Luffy rescue Ace.
WB vs the admirals was almost the same as Yonko Commanders vs the admirals.

You mention Doffy vs Kuzan, Doffy was trying to kill Smoker and even after Kuzan told him to leave him, Doffy still went for the kill before he got frozen. Doffy came out unscathed. Yet, he was not terrified by Kuzan and chose not to fight him because although he would have lost, he was not scared of Kuzan compared to Kaido. Doffy was more afraid of what Kaido would do to him than what any admiral or Kuza could do. I doubt if Kaido was there instead of Kuzan that Doffy would have dared moved a muscle.

True, but Whitebeard was still considered the strongest even in his old age, was he not? If he was weaker than the other emperors, then I'd have to agree that the Emperors are likely stronger, but Whitebeard stood out in terms of strength. Whitebeard failed to deal lasting damage on the admirals, so I can't really say he's superior to them, more like it's up in the air. I forgot who, but someone here pointed out that the Marines had advantages against Whitebeard because they predicted him coming and could set up traps, which is a pretty good point.

I don't think I'm saying admirals are stronger though, just that it's hard to determine. If the emperors really were superior, why not at least take down the Marines or the admirals?

AH yeah, I forgot that, but Doflamingo still didn't mess with Kuzan, other than trying to kill Smoker anyway. Maybe it's not because of power, but because Kaidou could find ways to torture Doflamingo whereas Kuzan wouldn't do something like that.

 

[I Am Atomic]

True, but Whitebeard was still considered the strongest even in his old age, was he not? If he was weaker than the other emperors, then I'd have to agree that the Emperors are likely stronger, but Whitebeard stood out in terms of strength. Whitebeard failed to deal lasting damage on the admirals, so I can't really say he's superior to them, more like it's up in the air. I forgot who, but someone here pointed out that the Marines had advantages against Whitebeard because they predicted him coming and could set up traps, which is a pretty good point.

Read what Marco said in the war about WBs condition.

WB was off his meds for days before arriving to the war. Marco said that the meds stabilised his condition. WB we see with Shanks is stronger than the MF one.

Think of it logically. An old guy with no meds to stabilise his condition go to a war. Gets heart attack in between (allowing Akainu to land a blow). Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru all had to contribute in trying to stop WB's advance to the core of Marineford.
Now think opposite. Let's say Coby is about to be executed by Luffy. Akainu comes to save Coby. Akainu advances. Luffy's main fighters are Kaido, BM and Shanks. All 3 swoop in to attack Akainu. Do you see Akainu performing well as WB did? Oh and throw in couple of heart attacks for Akainu as well

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 4, 2021 ---

And if Admirals equals to Yonko. Then Oda wouldn't have made Garp say this. A man who knows WBs and Rayleigh's strength.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Read what Marco said in the war about WBs condition.

WB was off his meds for days before arriving to the war. Marco said that the meds stabilised his condition. WB we see with Shanks is stronger than the MF one.

Think of it logically. An old guy with no meds to stabilise his condition go to a war. Gets heart attack in between (allowing Akainu to land a blow). Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru all had to contribute in trying to stop WB's advance to the core of Marineford.
Now think opposite. Let's say Coby is about to be executed by Luffy. Akainu comes to save Coby. Akainu advances. Luffy's main fighters are Kaido, BM and Shanks. All 3 swoop in to attack Akainu. Do you see Akainu performing well as WB did? Oh and throw in couple of heart attacks for Akainu as well

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 4, 2021 ---

And if Admirals equals to Yonko. Then Oda wouldn't have made Garp say this. A man who knows WBs and Rayleigh's strength.

again understanding needing to win, what purpose does going after rayleigh at that point
phyrric videos exist
the marines were on track to completely destroy the whitebeard pirates without a significant loss to their fighting force
this was after the addition of the impel down backups

ohh and garp and sengoku containing blackbeaerd and his crew

pretty sure impel down escapees + blackboard pirates > rayleigh

 

[GL_Nova]

We’ve only had skirmishes between the OG admirals and a yonkou , and the og admirals came out in better condition for the most part
Oda didn’t hype up the marines , he did but they weren’t the focus , the story was centered around ace luffy and whitebeard during marineford
Whitebeard was hyped , he’d already hyped and built up the marines
Oda hyped up whitebeard , yet the admirals ended up faring much better during the war and against him in their clashes
You brought up the admirals and commanders classing even tho the admirals actually ended up winning those fights and the only who fared better was Marco who even big mum couldn’t put down during a short skirmish , his ability makes him super Tanky
We’ve seen about 5 of the admiral class go toe to with yonkou/pirate king class ( rocks roger wb)
We just got introduced to a new power and even tho we’ve had instances of the admirals matching yonkou that suddenly doesn’t matter , that’s poor writing , this new power doesn’t invalidate the buildup and clashes Oda wrote before
And again using advanced COC doesn’t automatically make you as capable as a yonkou , ie Yamato and luffy

The Admirals didn’t do anything of Note until after Akainu tricked one of WB own into literally stabbing him in the back. This is all while the old man is off the literal life support that he needs to survive, he was told he wouldn’t survive this battle either way if he was off it that long, and had already had a few skirmishes with them and come out on top. WB is literally a worthy opponent for all 3 of them, on his literal fucking deathbed.

 

[I Am Atomic]

pretty sure impel down escapees + blackboard pirates > rayleigh

What? Really? Haha ok

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 4, 2021 ---

on his literal fucking deathbed.

Wish more people realised the importance of this statement.

 

[GL_Nova]

What? Really? Haha ok

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 4, 2021 ---

Wish more people realised the importance of this statement.

They see it, they just don’t care because it doesn’t mesh with their argument. Sadly people rarely grow out of selective hearing.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

What? Really? Haha ok

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 4, 2021 ---

Wish more people realised the importance of this statement.

They see it, they just don’t care because it doesn’t mesh with their argument. Sadly people rarely grow out of selective hearing.

Okay this is fair that he was ill but again this might not be you but it’s an aside where folks hyped marineford as the strongest man in the world and owns the admirals , but he didn’t own them , just can’t have it both ways
And again for me king haki coating visibility is a new power or reveal