One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

The powerscaling before the raid started is inconsistent, and I would prefer to just ignore it.

Unless you think Ulti could fight Kaido because she forced Luffy to use Gear 4 right before the rooftop battle, I would forget Kyoshiro blocking Zoro.

I also noticed something and that's with Kaido's favourite move - his THUNDER BAGUA stuff - if he gets a clean hit to the head it's a knock out like Oden, Luffy, and I think Kinemon. When it's to the body like Law and Zoro, it doesn't do as much damage but in Zoro's case he was already a dead man so he wasn't surviving it either way.

Yamato's smart to be using a club so she can easily block any such critical hit hence she took the least damage so far of all those who faced Kaido's club (plus he wasn't going to kill her since he had her in his plans all along).

TBH, Luffy deserves more praise than he's getting soloing Kaido without so much as a weapon something none of Kaido's foes have ever done and going for the win at that. Let's just hope it ends well cos that's just crazy!

 

[XXGenesis]

Why do we keep arguing with LadyVados, her saying that Zolo's Attack Power > Roger's is enough for me to dismiss her entirely.

Another thing, Luffy post TS was not YC1 @Pirate Queen he has only attained YC1 level when he reached Onigashima.
Zolo was not YC level until Wano. Teleport Fishman Island Zolo with Enma to current arc and he would not be able to scar Kaido or control Enma, look hes having a hard time controlling Enma from the latest chapter.

Shutenmaru vs Jack, Shuten made one huge cut on Jack, but the duel wasnt over it was interrupted by Kaidos arrival. Its hard to gauge, but it seems Shutenmaru was the winner. I would still rank him as YC3.

Kyoshro/Denjiro to me is the most overhyped RS, even though we know little of his strength. HE easily blocked Zolo but that doesnt mean they both were going at it seriously. Zolo did acknowledge his strength but he did so with Kamazo as well and then proceeded to take him down swiftly. Zolo also acknowledged Apoo, I think, but then took him down swiftly too.
Without knowing Denjiros strength compared to others I would rank him YC4/3. I say he is Flying 6 level.
Izo, Raizo, Kawa, Kiku are all YC4 level as well. But I see them having difficulty fighting Page One who may be the weakest F6.

Also Im on the Luffy is NOT Yonko level ship. Kaido is tired from fighting strong opponents back to back while keeping a whole island afloat. Kaido has been tanking hits left and right. Even if Luffy defeats him, it wouldnt be as if Luffy >/= Kaido. No way. Just like the Kata fight, Luffy "won" the fight but we all clearly saw how inferior he was to Kata.

Luffy vs Kata, take away FS and Kata can still defeat Luffy. Katas hits were hurting Luffy more than the other way around. Kata had to give himself a handicap.

Also, why are you guys ignoring the Sanji vs Queen fight is it truly over?

They like defaming Zoro & irritating logical fans. Why they cater to everyone else’s complains about the chef, when we critize those silly fans and the character for not having bad ass feats or a win.

The powerscaling before the raid started is inconsistent, and I would prefer to just ignore it.

Unless you think Ulti could fight Kaido because she forced Luffy to use Gear 4 right before the rooftop battle, I would forget Kyoshiro blocking Zoro.

You don’t need to ignore it. Just put it into context using future events & past events.

Ulti in Dino form is physically stronger than Luffy. * Not too crazy, Luffy was in Base; Ulti is a YC4 Dino Zoan; He was simply pinned; G3 attacks like P1 could have knocked her out Imo. She’s not taking multiple G4 blows, 1 would be enough.

Zoro was injured from fighting Kamazo; They weren’t fighting all out at all, it was a skirmish. So Yes Denjiro is strong 20years later…minimum YC4 at best YC3. For me it’s good enough to know his range in the power scale, he’s not some major character we gonna see later on.

*Biggest hits on the Power scale is Kaido 1 hit K.O Luffy; Then the rooftop of SN from YC3-YC1 fighting hurting the Yonkou; Aside from Luffy & Zoro who hit a limit during the fight. Kidd & Law are still kicking fighting BM with little to no consequence..it’s ridiculous, at least Zoro & Luffy were defeated once. Not just tankin

 

[HereNThere]

Also, why are you guys ignoring the Sanji vs Queen fight is it truly over?

Doubtful. I imagine Oda is trying to time it with something.

Like Zoro and Sanji KO'ing King and Queen at the same time. Or Sanji being of Lunarian heritage and Oda's going to exposit what that means through King first before moving back to Sanji (if that theory holds water at least). Maybe both.

 

[Ellenate]

Teleport Fishman Island Zolo with Enma to current arc and he would not be able to scar Kaido or control Enma, look hes having a hard time controlling Enma from the latest chapter.

This supports the idea that fmi zoro could pick it up and do the same- as high level mastery wasn't a factor.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

The powerscaling before the raid started is inconsistent, and I would prefer to just ignore it.

Unless you think Ulti could fight Kaido because she forced Luffy to use Gear 4 right before the rooftop battle, I would forget Kyoshiro blocking Zoro.

I totally agree with you.

Or maybe we are looking at it the wrong way. We all assume everybody on the rooftop fighting the Yonko got stronger compared to those who werent up there simply because they were able to harm Kaido in some way, either by making him cry out in pain, bleed. or scar.
We are using Kaido's durability/toughness/defense as a powerscale to judge those who have or have not/could not harm him. Also we're using his attacks and how well the target takes the club hit, if they defend, dodge, or walk it off.

For example. nobody wants to believe that Kinemon > G4 Luffy in Kuri because Kaido knocked out Luffy in one hit, yet Kinemon was able to survive the hit. Or how Law also took a hit from the club but Laws defense is def inferior to g4 Luffys defense.

Another example, is how G4 Luffy was NOT able to actually harm Kaido in Kuri, but Izo, Kiku, Kawa, Killer, Zolo, Kinemon actually could harm Kaido. Is that implying that those character's attack power > G4 Luffys? Seems ridiculous right.

Oda built this idea that Kaido was invincible in the way that no attack phases him, so far only Oden was able to cut him and scar him.

i think luffy going g4 was him wanting to end the fight quick , ala he did the numbers

 

[Pirate Queen]

Why do we keep arguing with LadyVados, her saying that Zolo's Attack Power > Roger's is enough for me to dismiss her entirely.

Another thing, Luffy post TS was not YC1 @Pirate Queen he has only attained YC1 level when he reached Onigashima.
Zolo was not YC level until Wano. Teleport Fishman Island Zolo with Enma to current arc and he would not be able to scar Kaido or control Enma, look hes having a hard time controlling Enma from the latest chapter.

Shutenmaru vs Jack, Shuten made one huge cut on Jack, but the duel wasnt over it was interrupted by Kaidos arrival. Its hard to gauge, but it seems Shutenmaru was the winner. I would still rank him as YC3.

Kyoshro/Denjiro to me is the most overhyped RS, even though we know little of his strength. HE easily blocked Zolo but that doesnt mean they both were going at it seriously. Zolo did acknowledge his strength but he did so with Kamazo as well and then proceeded to take him down swiftly. Zolo also acknowledged Apoo, I think, but then took him down swiftly too.
Without knowing Denjiros strength compared to others I would rank him YC4/3. I say he is Flying 6 level.
Izo, Raizo, Kawa, Kiku are all YC4 level as well. But I see them having difficulty fighting Page One who may be the weakest F6.

Also Im on the Luffy is NOT Yonko level ship. Kaido is tired from fighting strong opponents back to back while keeping a whole island afloat. Kaido has been tanking hits left and right. Even if Luffy defeats him, it wouldnt be as if Luffy >/= Kaido. No way. Just like the Kata fight, Luffy "won" the fight but we all clearly saw how inferior he was to Kata.

Luffy vs Kata, take away FS and Kata can still defeat Luffy. Katas hits were hurting Luffy more than the other way around. Kata had to give himself a handicap.

Also, why are you guys ignoring the Sanji vs Queen fight is it truly over?

Go reread Luffy vs Katakuri. Luffy, once Katakuri couldn't use FS, was equal to Katakuri in G4.

If he used KKG right away Doflamingo would have been low diff'd by him.

Luffy was definitely Yc1, but in the same sense he is Yonko level now.

He was YC1 but of all of them he was the weakest.

The only thing that kept him apart from the other YC1 was that YC1's seem to have something that can keep them in a fight for a very long time

King= Wings thar provide insane durability
Marco=Regeneration
Katakuri=FS

Take those abilities away and Luffy would be able to crush each of them with G4

 

[Fox666]

I totally agree with you.

Or maybe we are looking at it the wrong way. We all assume everybody on the rooftop fighting the Yonko got stronger compared to those who werent up there simply because they were able to harm Kaido in some way, either by making him cry out in pain, bleed. or scar.
We are using Kaido's durability/toughness/defense as a powerscale to judge those who have or have not/could not harm him. Also we're using his attacks and how well the target takes the club hit, if they defend, dodge, or walk it off.

For example. nobody wants to believe that Kinemon > G4 Luffy in Kuri because Kaido knocked out Luffy in one hit, yet Kinemon was able to survive the hit. Or how Law also took a hit from the club but Laws defense is def inferior to g4 Luffys defense.

Another example, is how G4 Luffy was NOT able to actually harm Kaido in Kuri, but Izo, Kiku, Kawa, Killer, Zolo, Kinemon actually could harm Kaido. Is that implying that those character's attack power > G4 Luffys? Seems ridiculous right.

Oda built this idea that Kaido was invincible in the way that no attack phases him, so far only Oden was able to cut him and scar him.

It's not just the fight against Kaido. The characters jumped in power all of a sudden.

- Luffy struggled a bit against Page One, and Ulti forced him to use Gear 4. He was knocked out by Apoo.
- Zoro had a hard time against Hawkins, and was a joke next to Kyoshiro. He was wrecked by Apoo, and had to ganged up with Drake to fight him.
- Sanji had a hard time against Page One even wit the Raid Suit, and Drake was unfazed by his attacks.
- Robin or Brook did not seem capable of handling Fukurokuju or the Oniwabanshu.
- Kid smashed Apoo against a wall, and Apoo shrugged it off.

A few chapters later:

- Luffy is fighting evenly with Kaido in his base form, and even split the sky.
- Zoro cut Kaido and is fighting an All-Star.
- Sanji is fighting an All-Star.
- Robin and Brook defeated a 480,000,000 pirate.
- Kid is smashing Big Mom against the floor.

The odd part is not how inconsistent it is, but how consistent it was before and after the power jump. There's a clear image for the 3 Supernova crews before and after this. For example, before someone like Hawkins would be the real deal for any of the captains, while now he's no match for the second in command.

 

[XXGenesis]

Go reread Luffy vs Katakuri. Luffy, once Katakuri couldn't use FS, was equal to Katakuri in G4.

If he used KKG right away Doflamingo would have been low diff'd by him.

Luffy was definitely Yc1, but in the same sense he is Yonko level now.

He was YC1 but of all of them he was the weakest.

The only thing that kept him apart from the other YC1 was that YC1's seem to have something that can keep them in a fight for a very long time

King= Wings thar provide insane durability
Marco=Regeneration
Katakuri=FS

Take those abilities away and Luffy would be able to crush each of them with G4

WTH? Are you talking about. Luffy was not YC1 Post TS.

What you are trying to allude at. Is Luffy in G4 is YC1; Which lacks heavy content, & still is incorrect.

Luffy could not defeat Doflamingo w/o G4 because his attacks were too weak/shallow for a. k.o in G2; G3 was too slow to even land; G4 the muscle bound form was still endured.
*There’s big plot Armour for Luffy vs Doflamingo….Luffy wasn’t YC1

G4 has a time limit; no Haki for 10mins. It’s not a stable power up. It’s a HUGE power up, that doesn’t last long.

Luffy could not, did not defeat Cracker’s Biscuit soldiers using G2 attacks or G3. Again he used G4 & was stalemating Cracker’s DF ability & timed out before a KKG attempt at overpowering wave of biscuit soldiers…Nami’s assistance negated the usefulness of Cracker’s DF & Luffy capitalized on this advantage, & Cracker receives a gag K.O

That’s not YC1 lv.

Luffy never surpassed Katakuri in their fight, he grew to his lv, & Katakuri let him win. Base luffy lands 1 hit while Katakuri was flustered, other hits were later in the fight after he grew & it was a smug feast with Katakuri landing way more blows. Then in G4 he gets in a few hits while Katakuri was flustered, Katakuri immediately G4 The hell outta town.
Snake man was cute, Katakuri weaved that too & made Luffy verbally complain!!

Either way, Luffy was never YC1 until he fought Katakuri. Where he was a YC2 fighting a uphill battle

To be certified in any tier, a stable sustainapower up or ability is needed;

I.E Zoro isn’t YC1/1+ because of Ashura or Cutting Onigashima off, but we do know that is his current peak.

 

[Pirate Queen]

WTH? Are you talking about. Luffy was not YC1 Post TS.

What you are trying to allude at. Is Luffy in G4 is YC1; Which lacks heavy content, & still is incorrect.

Luffy could not defeat Doflamingo w/o G4 because his attacks were too weak/shallow for a. k.o in G2; G3 was too slow to even land; G4 the muscle bound form was still endured.
*There’s big plot Armour for Luffy vs Doflamingo….Luffy wasn’t YC1

G4 has a time limit; no Haki for 10mins. It’s not a stable power up. It’s a HUGE power up, that doesn’t last long.

Luffy could not, did not defeat Cracker’s Biscuit soldiers using G2 attacks or G3. Again he used G4 & was stalemating Cracker’s DF ability & timed out before a KKG attempt at overpowering wave of biscuit soldiers…Nami’s assistance negated the usefulness of Cracker’s DF & Luffy capitalized on this advantage, & Cracker receives a gag K.O

That’s not YC1 lv.

Luffy never surpassed Katakuri in their fight, he grew to his lv, & Katakuri let him win. Base luffy lands 1 hit while Katakuri was flustered, other hits were later in the fight after he grew & it was a smug feast with Katakuri landing way more blows. Then in G4 he gets in a few hits while Katakuri was flustered, Katakuri immediately G4 The hell outta town.
Snake man was cute, Katakuri weaved that too & made Luffy verbally complain!!

Either way, Luffy was never YC1 until he fought Katakuri. Where he was a YC2 fighting a uphill battle

To be certified in any tier, a stable sustainapower up or ability is needed;

I.E Zoro isn’t YC1/1+ because of Ashura or Cutting Onigashima off, but we do know that is his current peak.

Luffy was fighting Katakuri in base a good chunk of the fight thanks to G4 time limit. If Katakuri didn't have FS, Luffy would have won outright.

FS was the deciding factor in that fight.

Luffy certainly had the Attack Power, Speed, and Endurance of a YC1 coming out of the timeskip.

 

[grey matter]

Luffy was fighting Katakuri in base a good chunk of the fight thanks to G4 time limit. If Katakuri didn't have FS, Luffy would have won outright.

FS was the deciding factor in that fight.

Luffy certainly had the Attack Power, Speed, and Endurance of a YC1 coming out of the timeskip.

Even without future sight, Katakuri was still better.

Kata had YC3 level stats, his Future sight is what made him a YC1.

I kinda agree.

But "YC1" is something that is a result of everything put together. Point being, there is no strict "YC1 level stats"

King seems like pure combat and is an ancient zoan, so of course his stats will be better. Same with Marco, who is a mythical zoan and regen, so a mix of stats + heal.
Neither has the versatility of Katakuri

 

[Pirate Queen]

Even without future sight, Katakuri was still better.

Better? Sure... but not to the degree in which a certain person is claiming.

Katakuri definitely had better CoA, tho. Luffy was doing enough to give him an extreme diff fight.

Katakuri only did as good as he did because of FS. Without it Luffy would have won cleanly. Even with better stats than Luffy he couldn't keep him down. Luffy just kept coming for him

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Kata had YC3 level stats, his Future sight is what made him a YC1.

Kata armament and physical strength and DF mastery was clear of YC3 easily
Lmao this is Judy king wank , you’re incredible

 

[Rein Avara]

Locking the thread and deleting posts .
Seems that some of you are unable to heed the words on the stickied post by @goldb.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Locking the thread and deleting posts .
Seems that some of you are unable to heed the words on the stickied post by @goldb.

this is cringe. just delete the posts and leave the thread open

 

[Rein Avara]

this is cringe. just delete the posts and leave the thread open

The thread was locked so I could delete posts without people derailing the thread even further, but thanks for your insightful words.

 

[Idkwhatanameis]

Luffys opponents have always been a slice above the rest by a good margin. Lucci would destroy Kaku with ease. Without enma zoro wouldn’t have showed such a good performance against Kaido. Yeah zoro has had it easy in the new world but luffy has always been 3 steps ahead not 1 not 2 . Every fight luffy has had in the new world has been tricky but g4 has fodderized everyone in the new world except for the yonkou. Once luffy was able to hit cracker it was over. Once luffy learned future sight it was over. Had luffy been able to use future sight from the start the first time he used g4 the fight would have been over. These fights would have been over quicker had luffy fought jack and then king it’s more of a brawl. If zoro barely beats king he was never stronger then luffy cause he trained in wano and got enma. I don’t believe zoro is top teir yet. This is not a vs I’m just stating power levels. Like who can’t agree that g4 is too strong for all these opponents? Without future sight or infinite biscuit soilders luffy could realistically one shot everyone besides the yonkou with King Kong punch.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Luffys opponents have always been a slice above the rest by a good margin. Lucci would destroy Kaku with ease. Without enma zoro wouldn’t have showed such a good performance against Kaido. Yeah zoro has had it easy in the new world but luffy has always been 3 steps ahead not 1 not 2 . Every fight luffy has had in the new world has been tricky but g4 has fodderized everyone in the new world except for the yonkou. Once luffy was able to hit cracker it was over. Once luffy learned future sight it was over. Had luffy been able to use future sight from the start the first time he used g4 the fight would have been over. These fights would have been over quicker had luffy fought jack and then king it’s more of a brawl. If zoro barely beats king he was never stronger then luffy cause he trained in wano and got enma. I don’t believe zoro is top teir yet. This is not a vs I’m just stating power levels. Like who can’t agree that g4 is too strong for all these opponents? Without future sight or infinite biscuit soilders luffy could realistically one shot everyone besides the yonkou with King Kong punch.

Gear 4 luffy didn’t fodderzie cracked
Even after he learnt the secret to softening up and eating , he spent the entire night running and recovering to fight cracker
Plus cracker swordsmanship and haki were elite as confirmed by luffy , doffy couldn’t harm luffy in g4 and cracker sliced him with near ease
Cracker weakness is his durability is cheeks

 

[LadyVados]

My posts are deleted when I was simply responding to other people yet no one else’s are even when they insult me and make fun of me…

If the inequality wasn’t obvious.

 

[grey matter]

Kata armament and physical strength and DF mastery was clear of YC3 easily
Lmao this is Judy king wank , you’re incredible

I'm pretty sure what Vados meant was that Katakuri's stats don't match with King's or Marco's.

Which is right. And that's fine. Those two are ancient and mythical zoans, zoans excel in brute stats.

It's not like there is "YC1 level stats" anyway. YC1 is the combination of all the combat abilities.
If Katakuri had those kind of stats on top of future sight and his DF versatility, he would be admiral tier.

YC3 (referring to Jack I assume) was too far tho.

 

[LadyVados]

YC3 (referring to Jack I assume) was too far tho.

I disagree, Jack is a beast in terms of strength, durability and endurance.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2021 ---

Without future sight or infinite biscuit soilders

That’s what I’m trying to say, The sweet commanders are hax-based fighters. Their physical stats are a tier or 2 below other people with the same rank. There is no way Luffy is oneshotting someone like King or Marco or Jozu. Someone like King or Jozu or Marco could probably eat King Kong Guns all day long.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2021 ---

Luffys opponents have always been a slice above the rest by a good margin.

And Luffy has always had much harder fights and often needed other characters to help him. Such as Robin against Croc, Law against Doffy and Now everyone and their uncle against Kaido.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2021 ---

If Katakuri had those kind of stats on top of future sight and his DF versatility, he would be admiral tier.

Exactly !

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2021 ---

Go reread Luffy vs Katakuri. Luffy, once Katakuri couldn't use FS, was equal to Katakuri in G4.

If he used KKG right away Doflamingo would have been low diff'd by him.

Luffy was definitely Yc1, but in the same sense he is Yonko level now.

He was YC1 but of all of them he was the weakest.

The only thing that kept him apart from the other YC1 was that YC1's seem to have something that can keep them in a fight for a very long time

King= Wings thar provide insane durability
Marco=Regeneration
Katakuri=FS

Take those abilities away and Luffy would be able to crush each of them with G4

Here’s my problem with this.

Kata is only YC1 level because of his FS, King is only YC1 level because of his insanely durable wings, Marco is only YC1 level because of his wings.

Take away one aspect of their game and they are no longer at the same level. Note every character has the same stats, you can’t just pick and choose different stats to define a level.

You could say Kizaru would only be YC1+ level without his speed or Kaido would only be YC1+ level without his durability. You can say stuff like this about any character by simply ignoring some of their powers.