One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Honestly @Pirate Queen I think you're making all this Katakuri is Godlike and >>>> King just because it was Luffy who fought him... you're just being BS over your fav character when it's pretty obvious that as "Right hand" of Yonko those guys are close in strength.
They each other have ways to damage and block each other.
Out of 10 fights I believe, even though I don't know for sure who, one of them would win 6/10 with high dif.
Katakuri sure does have the potential to reach Yonko level with all 3 hakis but he isn't invincible nor way above King.
All Commanders we've seen so far are impressive on their own way and can all give each other an extrem high dif fight with each of them having the chances of winning

I'm not the one that overhyped Katakuri with an unbeatable record and a level of CoO that not even Kaido or Big Mom have. Oda did.

I listed 5 or 6 reason why Katakuri is a better combatant than King.

Better CoA
Better CoO
Awakened DF
Unlocked CoC
Faster than King
Better Endurance

King has Better AP and is more durable with flames activated.

Clearly I struck a nerve by addressing the facts of the match up.

I never said Katakuri neg diffs King. I said Katakuri has better stats. And I have to walk that back because I mixed up endurance with durability because King has better durability unless his flames go out.

Big Mom's Executives are overall most impressive than Kaido's so her having a better Right Hand man shouldn't be such a hot take.

 

[Fox666]

The Big Mom Pirates were more impressive because they were hyped in Whole Cake arc, besides the plot didn't required the Straw Hats to wipe the floor with them 1-on-1. that said...

Who is better, Katakuri or King?

The only truly special ability King showed is using fire as a "forcefield" that makes him invulnerable to Zoro's attacks. Katakuri has future sight, CoC and an awakened Devil Fruit.

I bet it on Katakuri.

 

[M3J]

Why? I agree some go overboard with boxing people into PL.
I agree with you that OP is also more about matchups and Devil Fruits, than just combat stats and haki.
Like, IMO Doflamingo wins against Zoro all the time, if they start the battle far enough. Though people mostly consider them in different tiers.

But "commander level" is a general way for people to categorize characters who operate at a high level. With " YC1" special among all of them.
I don't see an issue with this at all.

Problem is that emperor commanders seem to fluctuate in strength, and that it's possible for super weak crew mates to be commanders, but it's not possible for a weak captain to become an emperor, hence why I'm okay with that bein a tier, but don't agree with emperor commander being a tier. Same with shichibukai, because you can have a weak captain like Buggy as a warlord just because of his strong crew, or a strong, lone pirate like Mihawk as a warlord.

Though, I can't think of a commander that's that weak, tbh.

Yeah the floorboards squeaked.

How invisibility bypasses basic CoO is strange.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2021 ---

The mechanics of CoO is to sense something not physically there yet Invisibility works against it.... make it make sense

Probably because Sanji was moving too fast for CoO to really work well? He wasn't invisible was he, just moving too fast?

 

[I Am Atomic]

Who is better, Katakuri or King?

The only truly special ability King showed is using fire as a "forcefield" that makes him invulnerable to Zoro's attacks. Katakuri has future sight, CoC and an awakened Devil Fruit.

I bet it on Katakuri.

This is all some of us are saying, but apparently everyone thinks that makes him Yonko level? King is just a bad match up against Katakuri.
Marco will most likely beat Katakuri.

So from what we know, I would say Marco > Katakuri > King

 

[HereNThere]

The Big Mom Pirates were more impressive because they were hyped in Whole Cake arc, besides the plot didn't required the Straw Hats to wipe the floor with them 1-on-1. that said...

Yup. Big Mom Pirates actually got to show off against the Strawhats and allies. It was constantly an uphill battle, even after losing two of their Commanders. They were always a threat. Beast Pirates, unfortunately, never got a chance to shine or get a show of force to demonstrate why they are formidable as a crew.

Honestly, thinking about it now, as large as their crew is, it feels like they really should've been spread out around Wano more right? There really isn't a reason why they were all squished into Onigashima for the most part.

 

[XXGenesis]

Somebody obviously has an agenda pumping up Katakuri over King so much.lol the difference is not as big as it seems.

Katakuri is the son of Big Mom who possess CoC, ACoA, & ACoO. He’s also the 1st mate who faced off against Luffy the MC; Because of narrative reasons their fight lasted half a day with Luffy fighting an uphill battle. Yes on paper, portrayal Katakuri is the most impressive 1st mate aside from Beckman.

This does not mean Katakuri is untouchable & unbeatable by no means. If Katakuri beat the crap out of Luffy for the 1st few hours of their fight & Luffy survived other commanders will not be embarrassed in the same manner;

Also Haki is not infinite; Brûlée suggested to Luffy that he’s gonna have Katakuri use up his Haki, Luffy never took this route….Meaning Katakuri can’t just dodge forever, constant rapid attacks, will eventually start to land.

ACoO isn’t invincible; Kaido was too fast to dodge completely; You have to remain cool calm & collected; Agitation weakens ACoO.

There are many means for other 1st Mates to challenge Katakuri, & for it to make sense why all of the Yonkou Crews are almost even.

Yes Katakuri stands out compared to King. Mainly his Haki mastery. However King’s invulnerable defense, speed & offense isn’t to be slept on. He has the means to fight any other 1st Mate like Marco & Katakuri.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Somebody obviously has an agenda pumping up Katakuri over King so much.lol the difference is not as big as it seems.

Katakuri is the son of Big Mom who possess CoC, ACoA, & ACoO. He’s also the 1st mate who faced off against Luffy the MC; Because of narrative reasons their fight lasted half a day with Luffy fighting an uphill battle. Yes on paper, portrayal Katakuri is the most impressive 1st mate aside from Beckman.

This does not mean Katakuri is untouchable & unbeatable by no means. If Katakuri beat the crap out of Luffy for the 1st few hours of their fight & Luffy survived other commanders will not be embarrassed in the same manner;

Also Haki is not infinite; Brûlée suggested to Luffy that he’s gonna have Katakuri use up his Haki, Luffy never took this route….Meaning Katakuri can’t just dodge forever, constant rapid attacks, will eventually start to land.

ACoO isn’t invincible; Kaido was too fast to dodge completely; You have to remain cool calm & collected; Agitation weakens ACoO.

There are many means for other 1st Mates to challenge Katakuri, & for it to make sense why all of the Yonkou Crews are almost even.

Yes Katakuri stands out compared to King. Mainly his Haki mastery. However King’s invulnerable defense, speed & offense isn’t to be slept on. He has the means to fight any other 1st Mate like Marco & Katakuri.

It’s not tnay it’s on paper , he does have more impressive standout attributes than king
I dunno how is his speed particularly higher , kata could keep up with snake man g4

 

[albertwv]

I believe after Zolo vs King, that Katakuri > King.
I have NO agenda to push, I like both Luffy and Zolo, and I truly believe Luffy > Zolo at any given time. That's how the portrayal has been since the early start of the series, more so after Alabasta. Im not trying to push an agenda of Luffy > Zolo because I like Luffy. No I seriously Luffy > Zolo > Sanji, until the end of the series or its shown otherwise.

King seriously has no great attributes that makes him stand out. The fire? Great but not that great. If he was Awakened of Advanced in a Haki, that would be more interesting but he's not.
He has great durability, but knowing Katakuri, he would find a way around it before he got tired and loses his ACoO.
I place Katakuri slightly above King. I am NOT saying Katakuri low diffs King, NO. Its an extremely diff fight but with Kata winning at the end.

Beckman and Shiryu are seriously overestimated and overrated. We literally have no real idea on how strong they really are, but people like to place them above Marcos and near Shanks (at least Beckman)
All because the marines stated that Shank's crew "well-balanced and high average bounty" among the Yonkos. That really doesnt give us a clue on their individual strengths.
I dont rate Beckman until we have seen his strength. He could be above Marcos or he cannot. We will just have to wait and see.

For Shiryu, just like BB, people like to place them high up because they will be the "EOS" villains, therefore they MUST be stronger than anybody else the SHs fight. I dont like that EOS hype. For all we know, some other new villains may pop up. So I wont rate him until we see what Shiryu can do.

My YC1 list:
Marcos>Katakuri>King

 

[Aaaa]

I believe after Zolo vs King, that Katakuri > King.
I have NO agenda to push, I like both Luffy and Zolo, and I truly believe Luffy > Zolo at any given time. That's how the portrayal has been since the early start of the series, more so after Alabasta. Im not trying to push an agenda of Luffy > Zolo because I like Luffy. No I seriously Luffy > Zolo > Sanji, until the end of the series or its shown otherwise.

King seriously has no great attributes that makes him stand out. The fire? Great but not that great. If he was Awakened of Advanced in a Haki, that would be more interesting but he's not.
He has great durability, but knowing Katakuri, he would find a way around it before he got tired and loses his ACoO.
I place Katakuri slightly above King. I am NOT saying Katakuri low diffs King, NO. Its an extremely diff fight but with Kata winning at the end.

Beckman and Shiryu are seriously overestimated and overrated. We literally have no real idea on how strong they really are, but people like to place them above Marcos and near Shanks (at least Beckman)
All because the marines stated that Shank's crew "well-balanced and high average bounty" among the Yonkos. That really doesnt give us a clue on their individual strengths.
I dont rate Beckman until we have seen his strength. He could be above Marcos or he cannot. We will just have to wait and see.

For Shiryu, just like BB, people like to place them high up because they will be the "EOS" villains, therefore they MUST be stronger than anybody else the SHs fight. I dont like that EOS hype. For all we know, some other new villains may pop up. So I wont rate him until we see what Shiryu can do.

My YC1 list:
Marcos>Katakuri>King

I don’t know what to think about Blackbeard tbh. I reckon the World government will be the the straw hats main opponents in the end, since I can see the gorosei being some OP individuals as well to bolster the WG, one of those guys even has the Shodai Kitetsu by the looks of it. I reckon Blackbeard and his crew will probably swoop in once everyone has tired themeselves out like he did at Marineford since he is opportunistic.

Also the whole King vs Katakuri thing is just pure speculation that fans love to play out tbh. King and katakuri have different strengths and weaknesses that put them on equal footing but if I had to pick, I think king would take it as they are right now solely because he probably has the better stamina & durability, and from what we’ve seen when two fighters of near equal strength fight, the thing that separates them is stamina. But we never really got to see Kings capabilities in haki because he was overpowering Zoro with just his race powers + CoA and then proceeded to get demolished once Zoro started using aCoC. Katakuri has the higher potential since we know he has CoC though, he’ll end up stronger eventually as I can see him unlocking advanced CoC later on. It’s up in the air and anyones guess about who is stronger tbh

 

[Dziumbranakas]

In regards to Katakuri vs King,

Their match up's suck. Katakuri has deus ex machina's which are very hard to counter, but ARE counterable either by : better Haki or just plain brute force.
Question is, could King be so above Katakuri to render his haxxx's?
Well to be fair King also has some haxxx's, but regardless.

King looks like he is an physical specimen like no other due to his Lunarian biology and ancient DF, I'd say out of all 1st mates, he's the highest one in physical realm, especially if we'd go in theory time.

Being an Lunarian, at least from what we are shown, makes him an DF user pretty much since birth - being able to specialize in either durability or speed, and both of them go to retarded heights - Zoro was able to WOUND Kaido, and when pouring his Haki to it's limit, his attacks were scary enough both for BM and Kaido to not play with it, and while pouring an similar amount of Haki during King fight, he said that it's not worth attacking him. To be able to wound Kaido, who was eating G4 like raspberry schnapps, probably an even stronger version of G4 than which actually OVERPOWERED Katakuri to some extent, and not BOTHERING attacking King as it wouldn't even work speaks volumes of King's durability when it is on.
In regards to speed - able to move in blitzing speeds, maybe one may compare it with Luffy's G2 mode, isn't anything that exceptional in OP's world but notable nonetheless. And since speed is power and weight, his attack potency is also increased.

As per his Fire manipulation - giving him early Ace DC, but also, nothing exceptional, or at least on such callibers.

When it comes to his DF - standard ancient stuff, but if it is awakened - the increase of power would be retarded, and combined with his Lunarian stuff would make him nigh invincible if he's on durability mode.

So, what King has is an insane, even higher durability than that of Kaido and I'd say BM, proper speed and DC, but due to that being quite an glass Canon or indestructable wall. Also, most likely highest base stats.
I mean, he casually kicked BM Chanter which is what, half kilometer high and long.

I'd say that when it comes to basic stats and haxxx's, King's nigh invincibility and potential awakening of his DF elevates him above Katakuri, since he'd have enough stats to just power through Katakuri's haxx's. But so far we only talked about his physical stats and etc., as King seems to lack training in combat to match Katakuri, and simply their difference in mastery of Haki shows it.

BUT this is hypothetical, since we do not even know if he's awakened or not, as only with that he'd be able to soundly beat him.
Without it, Katakuri would catch him eventually, but untill then they'd both stall eachother.

Without awakening on King's side (well if he is not awakened in the first place), Katakuri would win it 7/10, as he'd catch him eventually and King has enough raw stats to maybe catch him once in a while, but if King is awakened and we still didn't see it due to him either not giving an f* to use it and paying for it, or that we're still gonna see when the top echalon of Beast's awaken amd get the humbling in act 3, he'd beat Katakuri 10/10 times , since he'd be simply too physically gifted for Kata's haxx to matter.

 

[Moss Green]

Why do people keep saying Katakuri has ACoA? It’s blatantly not true…

His CoA was slightly stronger than Luffy’s in the same way Zoro’s was stronger than Pica’s and Law’s was stronger than Vergo’s. He’s NOT doing what anyone in Wano is doing Haki wise

 

[Pirate Queen]

Why do people keep saying Katakuri has ACoA? It’s blatantly not true…

His CoA was slightly stronger than Luffy’s in the same way Zoro’s was stronger than Pica’s and Law’s was stronger than Vergo’s. He’s NOT doing what anyone in Wano is doing Haki wise

Who are these people making such claims? I'm not seeing any. It seems like your trying to start an issue where there isn't any.

Any comment of him having ACoA is most likely referring to his "Block Mochi" which can be seen as an advanced form of Hardening or atleast mastery of CoA, just not in a class of its own like Barrier Haki or Internal Damage Haki. But again I'm not seeing all these people you are stating is making such a claim

 

[grey matter]

Problem is that emperor commanders seem to fluctuate in strength, and that it's possible for super weak crew mates to be commanders, but it's not possible for a weak captain to become an emperor, hence why I'm okay with that bein a tier, but don't agree with emperor commander being a tier. Same with shichibukai, because you can have a weak captain like Buggy as a warlord just because of his strong crew, or a strong, lone pirate like Mihawk as a warlord.

Though, I can't think of a commander that's that weak, tbh.

On bold part. Yep.
"Commander level" basically are all bunch of strong characters. There is a floor, though the ceiling itself is ambiguous.

I agree about Shichibukai.
There is huge variation amongst them, and hence can't be considered a general level.

I believe after Zolo vs King, that Katakuri > King.
I have NO agenda to push, I like both Luffy and Zolo, and I truly believe Luffy > Zolo at any given time. That's how the portrayal has been since the early start of the series, more so after Alabasta. Im not trying to push an agenda of Luffy > Zolo because I like Luffy. No I seriously Luffy > Zolo > Sanji, until the end of the series or its shown otherwise.

King seriously has no great attributes that makes him stand out. The fire? Great but not that great. If he was Awakened of Advanced in a Haki, that would be more interesting but he's not.
He has great durability, but knowing Katakuri, he would find a way around it before he got tired and loses his ACoO.
I place Katakuri slightly above King. I am NOT saying Katakuri low diffs King, NO. Its an extremely diff fight but with Kata winning at the end.

Beckman and Shiryu are seriously overestimated and overrated. We literally have no real idea on how strong they really are, but people like to place them above Marcos and near Shanks (at least Beckman)
All because the marines stated that Shank's crew "well-balanced and high average bounty" among the Yonkos. That really doesnt give us a clue on their individual strengths.
I dont rate Beckman until we have seen his strength. He could be above Marcos or he cannot. We will just have to wait and see.

For Shiryu, just like BB, people like to place them high up because they will be the "EOS" villains, therefore they MUST be stronger than anybody else the SHs fight. I dont like that EOS hype. For all we know, some other new villains may pop up. So I wont rate him until we see what Shiryu can do.

My YC1 list:
Marcos>Katakuri>King

I somewhat agree with his, and at least see where you're coming from.

Regarding King vs Katakuri
King has Katakuri beat in all stats except CQC (due to observation haki)

King is an offense/speed based ancient Zoan, who also basically also has another DF within him through his fire. Plus seeming invulnerability to attacks without advanced conq, as long as he's in defence mode.

I think King wins this matchup high-extreme diff because he can good AOE with his fire, and fire counters Katakuri's fighting style with future sight (there is only so much you can tweak your body)
If King relies purely on physicals, he gets high diff'd

Overall, I'd just say they are close in PL. There will be matchups Katauri can win, which King cannot. And there will be matchups King can win, which Katakuri cannot.


Regarding Shiryu, Ben Beckman
I understand where you're coming from, since these two are completely featless.
But, it isn't overestimation, merely a prediction (which will most likely be true). Just look at it from narrative perspective, than through "feats"

People rate Ben Beckman high, not only because of the statement from marines. But also because he has portrayal similar to Rayleigh, Oden and Zoro - 2nd in commands who are closer to their captains than usual.

Shiryu because of obvious reason that he's amongst the endgame antagonists. Does it narratively make sense for, say Zoro, to have trouble with this dude in the last or 2nd last arc, if he's say King/Katakuri level? Definitely not!

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2021 ---

Regarding the 2nd in commands we know properly of.

I'd say Marco is a cut above both Katakuri and King.
Gap between Katakuri and King is very low.

If Marco is 10, I'd put King at 8.5 and Katakuri at 8.4.
I rate King slightly above Katakuri, because IMO King can operate better against characters above his tier, because at that stage sheer stats and durability play a more important role. But, when it comes to characters on or below their tier, it comes down to matchups.

 

[Moss Green]

Who are these people making such claims? I'm not seeing any. It seems like your trying to start an issue where there isn't any.

Clearly

Katakuri is the son of Big Mom who possess CoC, ACoA, & ACoO.

Katakuri has aCoA (block mochi), aCoO (future sight), CoC, and DF awakening.

Any comment of him having ACoA is most likely referring to his "Block Mochi" which can be seen as an advanced form of Hardening or atleast mastery of CoA, just not in a class of its own like Barrier Haki or Internal Damage Haki. But again I'm not seeing all these people you are stating is making such a claim

Again you don’t need Haki that’s “advanced” or “mastered” to get through someone else’s Haki. You simply need to be stronger. We don’t say Hody Jones had ACoA when he bit Luffy, that Cracker had ACoA when he cut Luffy, or that Law had ACoA when he cut Vergo do we? Of course not. ACoA is an individual indicator of increasing strength that was only introduced this very arc. We don’t need to retcon everything to be ACoA becasue it was a strong attack. The scabbards and Hyogoro can all use ACoA yet they’re combined attack power is weaker than Zoro’s. The BOA sister had ACoA yet lost out to a G2 punch. You can have stronger Haki than someone without needing to claim it’s advanced. You can also have weaker Haki even if it is advanced.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Clearly







Again you don’t need Haki that’s “advanced” or “mastered” to get through someone else’s Haki. You simply need to be stronger. We don’t say Hody Jones had ACoA when he bit Luffy, that Cracker had ACoA when he cut Luffy, or that Law had ACoA when he cut Vergo do we? Of course not. ACoA is an individual indicator of increasing strength that was only introduced this very arc. We don’t need to retcon everything to be ACoA becasue it was a strong attack. The scabbards and Hyogoro can all use ACoA yet they’re combined attack power is weaker than Zoro’s. The BOA sister had ACoA yet lost out to a G2 punch. You can have stronger Haki than someone without needing to claim it’s advanced. You can also have weaker Haki even if it is advanced.

I will claim he has aCoA unless u prove me wrong

P.s. to everyone else, I know it's not advanced, but I had no other way to really word it.
Still more advanced than King who hasn't shown any haki mastery

 

[Crimson Ice]

To imply King has meh haki because he didn't show any techniques like block mochi is laughable.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I will claim he has aCoA unless u prove me wrong

P.s. to everyone else, I know it's not advanced, but I had no other way to really word it.
Still more advanced than King who hasn't shown any haki mastery

Everyone knew what you meant. People just try to start conflict for no reason.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2021 ---

To imply King has meh haki because he didn't show any techniques like block mochi is laughable.

Can you show us where he has exceptional haki techniques? And this isn't to be confrontational but he didn't show us anything. So to imply we can't deduce he had no exceptional haki usage doesn't really make sense. We saw him go all out and he didn't do anything outside of coating his blade.

It's like saying Kaido has Advanced CoO despite not showing it because it's laughable up he doesn't.

Just because you are a top tier fighter doesn't mean you have top tier haki by default.

He needs to show usage of advanced CoA or he simply doesn't have it.

 

[grey matter]

Isn't block mochi just regular armament hardening? Or am I missing something?

 

[AmitDS]

I think It's Oda's ambiguity when it comes to Haki that has people confused/debating imo.

TL;DR:
King vs. Katakuri imo is extreme diff either way but the lack of abilities on King's part vs. Katakuri's bloated and busted kit and the duration of their respective fights skew perception.

I will say, Katakuri does have great CoA, just not advanced/AdCoA (Ryou/Flow/Barrier) as far as we've seen. But this is likely simply due to the fact that Oda didn't invent it yet lol.
However, he does have CoA that is hard enough (Block Mochi, etc.) to damage through Luffy's G4. This can simply be due to his haki being stronger than Luffy's, similar to Cracker's CoA that was able to cut through Boundman's arm at the time of the events of the Seducing Woods.

However, regarding King vs. Katakuri, I think the thing is that King shockingly doesn't have AdCoA or the rarer AdCoC, when Wano was the arc that introduced these types of Haki and he's the next best fighter on the enemy's side after the 2 Yonkou and Katakuri's contemporary in the BP and this arc.
On the other hand, Katakuri, as said above, already has great CoA that could've competed with WCI G4's haki, AdCoO, and CoC which leads to fan speculation that he has the propensity to develop AdCoC if he were to appear in the future.

I believe it would be an extreme diff either way but it doesn't do King any favors that Katakuri, by virtue of being Luffy's opponent/Arc Boss I guess, showed a lot of exceptional powers like AdCoO, great CoA AND Awakening, while King was expected to have at least 1 or 2 of these things AND ended up having none on top of Katakuri having CoC which received major attention in the current arc.

Besides these things, it's also difficult to wrap your head around how King in a hypothetical matchup would be able to outdo or match Katakuri when Katakuri has so many blatant 'hax' abilities while King's whole schtick is his defense mode durability. Oda accidentally made Katakuri retroactively superior (subjective) because the only way to counter his FS is matching FS or speed, but Oda made it so that if King uses or even possesses the speed to tag Katakuri he loses his durability and Katakuri, as we've seen in the vs. Snakeman phase, can effectively utilize his attacks while not foregoing any of his 'defenses' i.e. FS combo'ed with Paramecia shapeshifting to avoid damage.
On the other hand, if King stays in defense mode, he won't have the speed necessary to tag Katakuri so it would become a rather lame stand-off between who has the higher endurance, Katakuri with his FS to avoid damage or King face-tanking hits. This part also in a way made Katakuri look superior since he did fight Luffy for 11+ hours while King fell in less than 15 minutes.
Basically if King has to tag Katakuri, he loses defenses so Katakuri can damage him and in his defense mode there hasn't been anything to indicate that Katakuri lacks the AP to be unable to damage him when you consider Marco with a casual knee strike (with ambiguous Haki application to boot) made defense mode King bleed.

Not getting into powerscaling post-AdCoC Zoro vs. WCI Luffy or anything, but strictly from an on-the-surface level perspective, Oda portraying a >11 hour fight vs <15 minute skews perception lol

(Somewhat) Baseless Speculation Time:
For whatever it's worth, Katakuri's haki also has been shown to be the flame-pattern Haki that we've only seen 3 people have (Luffy in G4, Katakuri himself and BM strangely enough). People have been debating what this is really and the general consensus is that it happens when you mix your paramecia/logia element with haki, eg. Luffy's Rubber is 'mixed with' Haki, not just 'coated.' The problem with this hypothesis tho is that BM has been shown using it in her clash with Luffy in WCI, but as far as we've seen, her Soru Soru powers aren't the same as other paramecia/logia elements that are mixed with Haki a la Katakuri and his mochi-infused arm, etc. so we don't know exactly what this is and if it's a form of haki that benefits Katakuri or anything.

Spoiler

This whole Katakuri vs. King thing is also a proxy for Luffy vs. Zoro as well lol and that's why when King failed to live up to some people's expectations of him we have this now. And no, I'm not saying or implying Katakuri is Luffy's equal at present or anything of the sort.

 

[grey matter]

His haki also has been shown to be the flame-pattern Haki that we've only seen 3 people have (Luffy in G4, Katakuri himself and BM strangely enough).

What is this?