Discussion Did Haki kill the creativity?

[kkck]

Personality is irrelevant to CoC. The series has made the point that you are either born a CoC user or not. Conqueror haki users generally take leadership positions and attract others but being a leader or attracting others do not cause you to have CoC. CoC predates anyone even having a personality since you are born with it.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Personality is irrelevant to CoC. The series has made the point that you are either born a CoC user or not. Conqueror haki users generally take leadership positions and attract others but being a leader or attracting others do not cause you to have CoC. CoC predates anyone even having a personality since you are born with it.

Uhh there's a pretty deterministic attitude towards personality in the One Piece world as well. Several characters have direct traits of their parent's personality without having ever met them.

 

[kkck]

Uhh there's a pretty deterministic attitude towards personality in the One Piece world as well. Several characters have direct traits of their parent's personality without having ever met them.

100% agree. My point was more along the lines of personality 110% not causing CoC. I suppose the correct framing would be something like there being a correlation between CoC and other traits. Not as much as in personality as CoC users in the series are pretty different in general but in their ability to attract people and some leadership qualities.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Personality might matter, or at least conditions to him unlocking CoC. Like, Luffy and Ace wouldn't have been able to unlock CoC if they were selfish and didn't care about others. Blackbeard doesn't seem to care about others. I know, hence why the conjectures and discussions. I don't care if he does have CoC or not, it makes no difference to me either way.

I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible to be born with CoC, just that it could be more to it than just that.

I can see where one can conclude that a certain condition needs to be met for someone born with CoC to actually awaken it. However, I don't think the condition itself has anything to do with personality. The way I see it is:

1. A person is either born with CoC or not. There is very little to debate here as the manga has stated it multiple times (up to debate whether it must be inherited from a parent but definitely clear a person is just born with the capacity to use CoC)
2. A person born with CoC needs to awaken it for them to actually use it. What is not exactly known are the conditions of awakening it. My theory is the trigger that's needed for awakening CoC is just a major stressor which is why we see people awakening it for first time in life threatening situations (Ace, Luffy, Zoro, Doffy).

But they're also emperors and captains, and Whitebeard was ambitious, but in a different way. He was ambitious in creating a family and protecting them, to the point that he sacrificed his own life to save his family. As for Shanks, who knows. Maybe his ambition is peace, as he tries his best to avoid violence or further violence, especially in others' wars.

At this point if we are going to substitute any life goals/motives as having ambition then all humans qualify. I'm sure there are plenty of people who just want t have a family or that just want peace. To me when we use the word ambition I think of it as a person having some goal that few if any will ever achieve e.g. being PK, being Worlds Strongest Swordsmen, being an Emperor/King of some large territory. In the case of WB, there is no indication he set out to be one of the most powerful pirates, that was just a biproduct of who he is. I'd argue something similar for Shanks but we need to learn more about his motivations.

We also have characters with CoC like BM and Doffy who don't seem to particularly care about anyone but themselves. They have both killed (or were willing to kill) their own family members. They only care to protect their own self interests. So there is definitely a variety of personality types, motivations, etc among known CoC users which makes it a poor indicator for identifying individuals with CoC.

I personally think people are making the common error of missing the hidden variable that is truly what is shared among known CoC users - they are all very strong. Every other trait we mention is not consistent among all the users, except this one. And in the case of strength the causal relationship is CoC -> strength vs strength -> CoC. So even if one believes personality is important it should be CoC -> personality and not personality -> CoC.

 

[M3J]

Personality is irrelevant to CoC. The series has made the point that you are either born a CoC user or not. Conqueror haki users generally take leadership positions and attract others but being a leader or attracting others do not cause you to have CoC. CoC predates anyone even having a personality since you are born with it.

Never said it did, was just wondering what most CoC users have in common.

It doesn't really seem to predate personality though, mostly.

I can see where one can conclude that a certain condition needs to be met for someone born with CoC to actually awaken it. However, I don't think the condition itself has anything to do with personality. The way I see it is:

1. A person is either born with CoC or not. There is very little to debate here as the manga has stated it multiple times (up to debate whether it must be inherited from a parent but definitely clear a person is just born with the capacity to use CoC)
2. A person born with CoC needs to awaken it for them to actually use it. What is not exactly known are the conditions of awakening it. My theory is the trigger that's needed for awakening CoC is just a major stressor which is why we see people awakening it for first time in life threatening situations (Ace, Luffy, Zoro, Doffy).

At this point if we are going to substitute any life goals/motives as having ambition then all humans qualify. I'm sure there are plenty of people who just want t have a family or that just want peace. To me when we use the word ambition I think of it as a person having some goal that few if any will ever achieve e.g. being PK, being Worlds Strongest Swordsmen, being an Emperor/King of some large territory. In the case of WB, there is no indication he set out to be one of the most powerful pirates, that was just a biproduct of who he is. I'd argue something similar for Shanks but we need to learn more about his motivations.

We also have characters with CoC like BM and Doffy who don't seem to particularly care about anyone but themselves. They have both killed (or were willing to kill) their own family members. They only care to protect their own self interests. So there is definitely a variety of personality types, motivations, etc among known CoC users which makes it a poor indicator for identifying individuals with CoC.

I personally think people are making the common error of missing the hidden variable that is truly what is shared among known CoC users - they are all very strong. Every other trait we mention is not consistent among all the users, except this one. And in the case of strength the causal relationship is CoC -> strength vs strength -> CoC. So even if one believes personality is important it should be CoC -> personality and not personality -> CoC.

oh right, I forgot about Doflamingo, but he awakened his CoC out of anger? Or was it fear of dying?

I'm not saying personality leads to CoC, but that CoC users or potential users might have certain traits in common.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

oh right, I forgot about Doflamingo, but he awakened his CoC out of anger? Or was it fear of dying?

I don't think its necessarily about fear of dying, more about extreme stress. In Doflamingo's case it was a bit of both anger and fear since he awakened it when those townspeople had him, his dad and bro hung up being tortured since they were former celestial dragons

I'm not saying personality leads to CoC, but that CoC users or potential users might have certain traits in common.

Yep I get that. I just think the traits these people have in common is a result of them being strong/powerful and not because they have CoC. To me the common denominator is their strength, hence why we have other characters with the traits your mentioning that aren't CoC users like Marco, King, Queen, Jozu, Vista, Law, etc