One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Did Queen fight Jinbei or know how strong he really is?

I mean, Sanji attacked Big MOm with Luffy and wasn't able to inflict any damage either. We don't know how Jinbei would do against someone like Queen or Cracker, do we? Nor do we know if Sanji really superior to Doflamingo or not now. You're going by feats and portrayal, but Jinbei didn't officially become part of the crew until arcs later. There's really no evidence here unless you can show me Jinbei not being able to handle a strong fighter that Sanji could handle.

Before you bring up Queen again, I don't remember him fighting Jinbei.

Had Queen fought anyone from the Strawhats at that point besides catching one punch from base Luffy in Udon? That excuse doesn't work.

Sanji doesn't attack women. He and Luffy blocked a punch from Big Mam, not to mention, it was a non-starving Big Mam. We have nothing to indicate Jinbei is on the level of Doffy and co; you're using Jinbei's lack of feats to try and elevate him to a level he hasn't been portrayed at. Sanji is above Doffy. Let's not be silly. Doflamingo is a character at the level of a YC3 (I'm not too fond of the term, but it's the easiest to describe him at.) Sanji has beaten the second strongest commander of a Yonko, yet somehow it's up in the air that he beats characters a notch below that? What does the ARC Jinbei joined officially have to do with what I'm saying? There is not a feat, fight or hint of portrayal that puts Jinbei on the same level as the left hand or a yonko, let alone someone who beat one without too much trouble (post-Germa genes Sanji).

Shit, using this logic, why stop at Queen? I don't remember Jinbei fighting King; he never fought Marco, right? Let's say he beats them all then. Since ambiguity is enough evidence at this point.

 

[baditz]

Did i miss robin, sanji or zoro in this chap? Why people talk about them?

 

[XXGenesis]

I listed what he can do. You replied with "nothing" and "plot armor".

Honestly whenever the Sanji topic comes up, people get completly unreasonable, to the point we now evade any discussion with two liners.

Yes, I was 8 years old, too when Alabasta arc came out in my country. Doesn't mean I still have to keep my biased perception from back then, because honestly that is the feeling any kind of Sanji discussion gives off.

Why can't Robin have been stronger? Because she is a girl?

Agreed.

Robin was probably stronger than Zoro too at alabasta

Robin had an crippling ability that was a good counter to H2H fighters such as Zoro & Sanji….

I personally was gonna make a Robin takes a Guantlet…Because her DF ability can really handicap a lot of ppl, and be pretty deadly.

Alabasta Robin is not stronger than Zoro or Sanji. But she can kill them if she wanted to, or under the right conditions….**Can she produce weapons with her hands?? Like can she sprout a hand holding a knife? if so yea they dead…

All in All I believe Sanji or Zoro would be too strong to be restrained or enough endurance to survive a few clutch and catch Robin by surprise…

Robin is formidable with her DF. She’s fast enough to stop Hakuba one of best feats imo

 

[Bandit99]

Did i miss robin, sanji or zoro in this chap? Why people talk about them?

This is the power level thread, not the specific chapter thread

 

[McNuss]

I don't see why assume that the power hierarchy changed after Sanji learned a new attack.

Robin has no feats to compare with. She defeated Pell and Hana, who have no feats to compare with other characters.

It's simpler to assume that Robin has always been behind the monster trio, and with a bounty way too big for her.

So Diable Jambe was not a power-up? In the arc where every Strawhat (except Robin, btw) got a power-up?

I already explained how Pell should be compared to other characters. Alabasta arc uses a power grid for the Baroque Works that the Alabastan characters can easily be fit into due to half of them already being part of it.

Skypea has a similar system but it's harder to make everyone fit into, I'll give you that. However Yama fought twice, against Genbo and Robin, that's more than most other guys in that same arc.

The entirety of Skypea arc gives of the feeling of Robin = Strong. Sanji got a rather bad treatment, being underperforming in his first fight due to not being acclimated (due to Oda needing a way to explain Sky Combat), and then being worfed vs Enel. But there is nothing that suggests Skypea Sanji to be much different from Alabasta Sanji. And he still did not one-shot anyone.

Of course you can pretend they just don't count. But that is an evasion of argumentation and not leading anywhere.

-----

Honestly, it feels like, what happened is, that talking about Sanji triggers an emotional response in all of you that made you reject my argumentation by default.

Slowly, you are all realizing that there might be merit behind my words, but you are all to proud on this topic to admit that, hence why we are now having a back and forth discussion avoiding any arguments I have given.

The perception of Sanji in this board or the One Piece community in general is so inconsistent. During WCI everyone was whining about how "useless" he has become, which pretty much continued until he started fighting Queen. When he got the Raid Suit, people complained how they don't like how he has to use technology to keep up, when he destroyed it people complained that he did. They either hate or defend his stance on women and its entirely reliant on wether Sanji looks heroic or silly. Any finer nuances of the character, overlooked. There's hardly any consistent stance on Sanji aside from the notion that he has to be the third strongest by default, but even that does not seem to be really set into stone considering how people reacted to my comments about Yamato.

It really feels like people... just have a problem with the fact that Sanji is not what they perceived him to be when they were young. As in, it's very hard to get rid of a stance ingrained into their heads for such a long time, no matter how much substance it lacks.

I'd say the character has 100% achieved its purpose.

Why are we comparing Robin to Sanji, Zoro, etc? Robin can be weaker but still beat them just because of the way they fight. For example, all she'd have to do is push Luffy into an ocean from afar, and she'd win.

We are comparing Pre-Diable Jambe with Pre-Skip Robin to prove my point that Sanji doesn't necessarily have to be #3 in the crew.

 

[McNuss]

I think the Monster trio broke up before even Sanji joined because when Ussop joined he was stronger than Zoro and Nami. They didn't get stronger than him until Logue Town.



And Robin was stronger than Sanji AND Zoro so there was never a Monster Trio. It was all gags

Stop trolling. There's an argumentation of mine that can be tackled with counterarguments. Or you can ignore it. This is just foul mouthing me for something you are not willing to understand.

I am actually starting to think most here haven't even read up till Alabasta arc in the Manga.

 

[XXGenesis]

So Diable Jambe was not a power-up? In the arc where every Strawhat (except Robin, btw) got a power-up?

I already explained how Pell should be compared to other characters. Alabasta arc uses a power grid for the Baroque Works that the Alabastan characters can easily be fit into due to half of them already being part of it.

Skypea has a similar system but it's harder to make everyone fit into, I'll give you that. However Yama fought twice, against Genbo and Robin, that's more than most other guys in that same arc.

The entirety of Skypea arc gives of the feeling of Robin = Strong. Sanji got a rather bad treatment, being underperforming in his first fight due to not being acclimated (due to Oda needing a way to explain Sky Combat), and then being worfed vs Enel. But there is nothing that suggests Skypea Sanji to be much different from Alabasta Sanji. And he still did not one-shot anyone.

Of course you can pretend they just don't count. But that is an evasion of argumentation and not leading anywhere.

-----

Honestly, it feels like, what happened is, that talking about Sanji triggers an emotional response in all of you that made you reject my argumentation by default.

Slowly, you are all realizing that there might be merit behind my words, but you are all to proud on this topic to admit that, hence why we are now having a back and forth discussion avoiding any arguments I have given.

The perception of Sanji in this board or the One Piece community in general is so inconsistent. During WCI everyone was whining about how "useless" he has become, which pretty much continued until he started fighting Queen. When he got the Raid Suit, people complained how they don't like how he has to use technology to keep up, when he destroyed it people complained that he did. They either hate or defend his stance on women and its entirely reliant on wether Sanji looks heroic or silly. Any finer nuances of the character, overlooked. There's hardly any consistent stance on Sanji aside from the notion that he has to be the third strongest by default, but even that does not seem to be really set into stone considering how people reacted to my comments about Yamato.

It really feels like people... just have a problem with the fact that Sanji is not what they perceived him to be when they were young. As in, it's very hard to get rid of a stance ingrained into their heads for such a long time, no matter how much substance it lacks.

I'd say the character has 100% achieved its purpose.

We are comparing Pre-Diable Jambe with Pre-Skip Robin to prove my point that Sanji doesn't necessarily have to be #3 in the crew.

Once you truly understand and accept this. You’ll be able to walk away from the toxic debates much easier and actually give time to those that want to converse on the subject for real.

I completely agree with you on the reactions Sanji topics get. The One Piece fandom is not woke..lol sadly to say it got really toxic imo after the TS because Sanji was not given enough screen time and it was gags or coming up short. So this imo made the normal rivalry we see in series & in fans just go bonkers…It waned in different degree early Wano, & seems sort of stable at the moment.

But McNuss, I’m here to actually address your points. I agree Robin is formidable because of her DF; but was she actually stronger than Zoro or Sanji? NO she wasn’t. Sanji has always been the #3…Jimbei didn’t officially join until Wano, Sanji already trained, had his Germa suit so he was stronger then too.

Sanji is without a doubt #3. No other SH surpass him battle besides Zoro & Luffy.

 

[Pirate Queen]

"I'm here to ACTUALLY address your points"

Proceeds to state the obvious without addressing anything in particular and simply stating Sanji is strong... which we all know.

An argument can be made for Jinbe being stronger than Sanji at the beginning of Wano, which shouldn't surprise anyone as Jinbe was a Shichibukai

 

[XXGenesis]

Keep it up. You add so much to the debates, with your sarcastic post.

I respect those that can articulate themselves. Not get emotional when called out on flaws in their debate tactics or lack of

 

[really_jonny]

Jinbe is the most overrated character in One Piece, without a doubt.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Jinbe is the most overrated character in One Piece, without a doubt.

I would say Ace and perhaps the Supernova. What makes you say Jinbei?

The 5 day Ace fight, right?

 

[really_jonny]

Makes me think that Jinbe is the most overrated for the level of strength he has always been and is still put on by many people.. I've seen be said stronger than Zoro countless times, not just in my country but everywhere. I've read absurdities even in Onigashima people thinking he's as strong as Zoro and Sanji after having their respective Big ups.

They use a lot of hype that he was once a Shichibukai when that's irrelevant, as the government selects their privateers more for status and hype than strength level.

In my view, by the facts shown, Jinbe is a pretty solid YC3.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Makes me think that Jinbe is the most overrated for the level of strength he has always been and is still put on by many people.. I've seen be said stronger than Zoro countless times, not just in my country but everywhere. I've read absurdities even in Onigashima people thinking he's as strong as Zoro and Sanji after having their respective Big ups.

They use a lot of hype that he was once a Shichibukai when that's irrelevant, as the government selects their privateers more for status and hype than strength level.

In my view, by the facts shown, Jinbe is a pretty solid YC3.

At the beginning of Wano I ranked Jinbe above Sanjiand Zoro. Thoughts?

 

[really_jonny]

Zoro and Sanji after having defeated King and Queen respectively, are now fully capable of challenging an admiral in an equivalent way. I say this, because after having mastered their ups (mastering Enma and Haoshoku Level 2 and understanding their physical upgrades) they had an easy time defeating two Yonko commanders.

Okay, Zoro had a little more difficulty against King (YC1), but Sanji with Ifrit Jambe going all-out on Queen defeated him as easily as if he were a Yonko, showing a gap between Sanji's current level and a YC2.

In the most I agree that in One Piece there are variables, a character can be weaker and have abilities that nullify those of the other, but this is directly about Special Paramecias and Mythical Zoans (Kid, Law, Cracker, Doflamingo and Marco for example), in general it does have a level of power. This may have been abandoned in One Piece, but Oda created a little thing called Douriki.

At the beginning of Wano I ranked Jinbe above Sanjiand Zoro. Thoughts?

In that case I agree that he was equivalent to Sanji from the beginning of Wano. Not above because Jinbe has no brute feats for it. I've always argued that Zoro started the timeskip as powerful as Luffy, and from what we've seen in recent Wano events I wasn't wrong. Zoro basic cuts had the same destructive power as Luffy G3, Zoro has several speed techniques, already had Advanced Busoshoku (I can create a topic proving that Zoro already mastered Advanced Busoshoku since the Fishman Arc) and still had Asura (which by the way he didn't even use against King).

I think Oda always planned to give Sanji this respective buff, he didn't make him easily defeated by Doflamingo for nothing. After he awakened his physical abilities, he returned to the same level Zoro how it was before.

 

[XXGenesis]

Makes me think that Jinbe is the most overrated for the level of strength he has always been and is still put on by many people.. I've seen be said stronger than Zoro countless times, not just in my country but everywhere. I've read absurdities even in Onigashima people thinking he's as strong as Zoro and Sanji after having their respective Big ups.

They use a lot of hype that he was once a Shichibukai when that's irrelevant, as the government selects their privateers more for status and hype than strength level.

In my view, by the facts shown, Jinbe is a pretty solid YC3.

He’s not overrated.
Jimbei during WCI had a better feat than both Sanji & Zoro…

Because he managed to Endure Blocking an attack from Big Mom, & counter attack her……

That alone was better than Zoro owning Pica..Sanji at the time best showed he can blitz Oven & clash with Daifuku.

*Jimbei agreed to join the Straw Hat Pirates; He technically was apart of the crew by the end of WCI but it wasn’t official until they all reunited & welcome him. By that time Both Zoro & Sanji we’re hands down stronger.

Ppl were just wrong. About Jimbei still being stronger because he’s not as proven with the match ups. But it wasn’t absurd because Jimbei has consistent feats.

 

[really_jonny]

hehehe quote Big Mom dude. She that even Franky and Robin managed to apply blows and take her out of the picture. And even more, a feat of Jinbe against Big Mom nerfed, so nerfed to the point that a simple shock from Zeus would cause damage to her, when previously Zeus' most powerful attack was not able to do any damage. In that scene against Jinbe no Sunny she was tens of times weaker.

 

[XXGenesis]

hehehe quote Big Mom dude. She that even Franky and Robin managed to apply blows and take her out of the picture. And even more, a feat of Jinbe against Big Mom nerfed, so nerfed to the point that a simple shock from Zeus would cause damage to her, when previously Zeus' most powerful attack was not able to do any damage. In that scene against Jinbe no Sunny she was tens of times weaker.

Weakened Big Mom or not she was an obstacle that not even Luffy could overcome at the time. Jimbei knocked her off the Sunny

????? Zesus attack did hit Big Mom?? It left a crater took out her children, Big Mom continued her pursuit of the SHP uninjured.

Franky riding a motorcycle across her face is a gag & outlier showing of Big Mom. Nor did it take Big Mom out??

It is not impossible as the manga shows for a weaker opponent to get the 1 up on a stronger opponent. Whether they can win or not. I can use numerous example of this.

Robin did not land a hit on Big Mom, she used her DF powers to continue rolling Big Mom the direction Jimbei flipped her.

Some revisionist facts in post, main point Jimbei being stronger than lower trio had merit at a point in time. You can try to discredit feats by saying Big Mom has gag moments. We just seen Big Mom go all out & Kidd & Law barely manage a win

 

[grey matter]

hehehe quote Big Mom dude. She that even Franky and Robin managed to apply blows and take her out of the picture. And even more, a feat of Jinbe against Big Mom nerfed, so nerfed to the point that a simple shock from Zeus would cause damage to her, when previously Zeus' most powerful attack was not able to do any damage. In that scene against Jinbe no Sunny she was tens of times weaker.

On the bold part. Says who?
What says she was weaker even? Was it explicitly stated?

She was fitter and more angry, had her head on flames. Even if she was weaker, nothing states the nerf was high

Jinbe was stronger than Sanji until the raid, and arguably stronger than Zoro until he received Enma.

 

[really_jonny]

- Big Mom is comic relief where Tobiroppo-level characters manage to successfully attack her and take her out of the picture. The same is not true of a serious Yonko like Kaido or Admirals. FACT
- Zeus most powerful attack was totally ignored, while nerfed a visually tens/hundreds of times weaker attack caused him damage and screams of pain. FACT
- It was exactly this mega ultra omega nerfed version that Jinbe took down. FACT
- As a comic relief, even if she were Full, such a feat by Jinbe could be invalid. Basic logical link. FACT
- Jinbe in territorial advantage, had problems with a beginner Ace unable to master Haki, in which he was defeated by sleeping WB, that is, light years of a top tier character. FACT
- Just by swinging his swords without naming attacks, Zoro was able to cut through a statue said to be the size of a city. Showing level of destructive power superior to Luffy G3. FACT
- In the same chapter, the owner of the statue, when shielding himself from Busoshoku Koka, said he was much more resistant than such a statue (the size of a city/big mountain) and that Zoro could not cut it. Zoro cut him. FACT
- Zoro is able to use Busoshoku Advanced Ryou since the beginning of Time Skip, as shown when mentioning his barrier against Hyouzou on Fishman Island.
- Zoro didn't face anyone relevant before Kaido after Team Skip, it hasn't been long since the crew joined, there's no reason to believe that Zoro has increased his Douriki so much, the only difference is that he awakened his Haoshoku and on the very first day learned to imbue it.
- Zoro has several jumping and dodging techniques (Tourou Nagashi).

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 5, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 5, 2022 ---

On the bold part. Says who?
What says she was weaker even? Was it explicitly stated?

She was fitter and more angry, had her head on flames. Even if she was weaker, nothing states the nerf was high

Jinbe was stronger than Sanji until the raid, and arguably stronger than Zoro until he received Enma.

Just basic logic right my friend. If before she was able to withstand an attack that was extremely more powerful than that of Zeus in the Sunny without the slightest problem, it was more than obvious that she was extremely nerfed. It's in the manga, explicit and clear, as clear as the sun. Just see what's in it and accept it.

 

[grey matter]

Just basic logic right my friend. If before she was able to withstand an attack that was extremely more powerful than that of Zeus in the Sunny without the slightest problem, it was more than obvious that she was extremely nerfed. It's in the manga, explicit and clear, as clear as the sun. Just see what's in it and accept it.

Dude, I asked a simple question. Point me to something which stated that BM was even weakened, let alone 10 times weaker or something.

Regardless, what Jinbe did against a Yonko, even if nerfed one, was impressive.

He was stronger than pre raid Sanji, and likely pre Enma Zoro. Post raid Sanji and Zoro are obviously stronger. What's the issue with that statement? No see no wank/overrate with that statement.