Pellegarde is my favourite thing about the chapter. His character continues to get better and watching him effectively dunk on Gawain was quite satisfying. I also like the implication that a high ranking chaos knight can defeat a member of the 4KOA. Retains the fact that Arthur’s subordinates are still a huge threat.
Gawain is 100% a spoiled brat with her current character and I am so happy Nakaba wrote her a loss in her 1st fight. I think In terms of sheer power she has more than the rest of the 4KOA and Pellegarde, but I doubt she’s ever trained so has about as much combat ability as Percival.
I’m interested in her development moving forward since the first few things she can do is accept the loss and apologise for her actions. Not going to absolve her but that’s quite a step for someone calling herself ‘perfect’.
I seriously don't get why people are annoyed by Gawain. She's literally just untamed Day Escanor, who believes to be above everyone else and took time and a beating from Meliodas to even consider working with the other Sins. I'm not saying she's the best character in the world or anything but I don't understand why you would like Escanor but not her.
...Or that's what I would be saying if it wasn't for that last page. I will wait until next week but Nakaba, I swear, if literally the only proper difference between Escanor and his female version is that the later cries when defeated... I seriously hope she was just faking her attitude, otherwise I will join the thinking that no female character, no matter how important, will ever be decently written in this series.
I am gladly surprised Pellegarde fought back tho, I wasn't expecting that at all. His words about not killing her right away only further prove he is not evil at all and just wishes to fight strong opponents.
Escanor wasn't an asshole to begin with. He had control issues when he was younger while his heart was in the right place. Escanor (when he was in control) never attacked a Sin without reason. He would have never attacked his ally just because he was in the way. He didn't even like his power.
Although comparisons are inevitable, the less people try to see Escanor through her the better it will be.
Not really. The only other king in the legends is the Fisher King, but he isn't related to Arthur.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Can we agree that Pellegarde is a G in this series? Like mad impressive.
Now, in regards to Gawain, I do hope Nakaba can use this fight as a character development vechile for her. Because I really really want her to be a good character. She has potential, but the problem is she's too much of a mixed bag.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
I don't mind her crying. My gripe is that it was TOO darn quick for that to happen. I would've preferred a much more slower and built up series of events that lead to her crying. Not this.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Also, I see great potential for Tristan, here, in terms of character development. If Nakaba plays his cards right, Tristan learning that he has to decide whether his morals or the fate of the world is more important is a great concept for his character. He wasn't going to fight Gawain; and if he did, Percival would've had a better chance of survival, keeping the hope of the 4KoA alive. To add, it would make him question if his morals is saving or endangering others.
It reminds me of Kenshin and Vash the Stampede, where these characters are conflicted over their morals of refusing to kill, which is similar to Tristan in this case.
Same here. At least, that's where I hope his character leads. One of my issues with Elizabeth in the previous series was how her pacifism was handled and how naive she was in certain instances. Tristan seems to have inherited that quality from her, but it's not portrayed as a virtue here as with her, but rather as a flaw as Tristan just stood by and let Gawain attack Percy. It's not that he has to let go of his morals, but he has to realize that he can't stand idly by in some cases.
To quote Android 16 from DBZ Abridged:
"But there you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs and your rigid pacifism crumbles into blood-stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns."
Gawain being humbled was perfect! Definitely see that she been an entitled her whole life but now she can grow and her character can develop to the point where she is humbled and see the power of friendship.
I think the 4KoA ranks really seem to be:
1. Lance
2. Tristan
3. Gawain
4. Percy
in term use of abilities and skills.
I do think Percy will be the strongest oddly because the zombie power he displayed. But then Tristan technically is chaos in human form so Idk how this plays out. I do think Tristan would make a good leader but he has to stop being a push over and stand his ground like Mel.
Gawain being humbled was perfect! Definitely see that she been an entitled her whole life but now she can grow and her character can develop to the point where she is humbled and see the power of friendship.
I think the 4KoA ranks really seem to be:
1. Lance
2. Tristan
3. Gawain
4. Percy
in term use of abilities and skills.
I do think Percy will be the strongest oddly because the zombie power he displayed. But then Tristan technically is chaos in human form so Idk how this plays out. I do think Tristan would make a good leader but he has to stop being a push over and stand his ground like Mel.
I think the ranking in terms of overall ability is spot on! Lance has been shown to be the most capable of the 4, though I think Tristan will be the leader on paper. It’s likely to be like the sins where Meliodas is the captain but everyone is a free spirit to a degree.
I mean chapter 62 showed their different personalities so that makes me think their greatest strength is their utter lack of teamwork.
On one hand, I’d rather Nakabe progress her personality sooner rather than later (because due to her not being a genuine antagonist she just comes off as irritating to me rather than fitting) but this feels too fast. Maybe it’ll be a situation where she uses crocodile tears to surprise attack her opponents
On one hand, I’d rather Nakabe progress her personality sooner rather than later (because due to her not being a genuine antagonist she just comes off as irritating to me rather than fitting) but this feels too fast. Maybe it’ll be a situation where she uses crocodile tears to surprise attack her opponents
I’d say within the next 20 chapters would be ideal. It seems like Gawain will begrudgingly become a member of the 4KOA and slowly warm up to the idea. I don’t want her to 180 because that’s too quick and likely not a genuine character shift.
I think she needs to apologise/admit she was wrong. That’s the first step and that could come sooner rather than later. I think the moment Gawain refers to Percy and co as friends we’ve reached the turning point of her ‘arrogance’ phase.
On one hand, I’d rather Nakabe progress her personality sooner rather than later (because due to her not being a genuine antagonist she just comes off as irritating to me rather than fitting) but this feels too fast. Maybe it’ll be a situation where she uses crocodile tears to surprise attack her opponents
This is somewhat similar to Le Morte d'Arthur and some other versions of the story of King Arthur, in which Arthur is raised by Sir Ector, Kay's father, either because Merlin took Arthur away from his biological parents or because Uther died. Arthur only learns of his true identity when he ends up drawing Excalibur from the stone, something that only the rightful king of England could do.
The biggest problem with power levels was not how they were used in story but how fans reacted to them imo.
The humans from Stigma back in the day seemed pretty strong, so maybe the experience of going through the Holy War made Howzer and the other human Holy Knights stronger.
I'd argue the literal power levels just exemplified the other problems with the powercreep. It's bad enough when most of the cast is completely incapable of damaging any of the major enemies, but it gets even more annoying when the explanation boils down their invisible stat numbers being too low.
As for the humans powering up, I considered that, but the thing that makes me question the idea is how Matrona (and by extension Howzer) compares to all the other holy knights. Never mind Zaratras and Dreyfus being less than half as strong as Matrona, but even Diane, Ban, King, Gowther and Merlin had worse stats than her until the buffs most of them received during the events of NnT. This would mean that Howzer fighting against some low tier demons made him significantly stronger than a 3000 year old witch and an over 1000 year old fairy king. Surely those two would have ended up getting more fighting experience than Howzer over the course of all those centuries?
This is somewhat similar to Le Morte d'Arthur and some other versions of the story of King Arthur, in which Arthur is raised by Sir Ector, Kay's father, either because Merlin took Arthur away from his biological parents or because Uther died. Arthur only learns of his true identity when he ends up drawing Excalibur from the stone, something that only the rightful king of England could do.
I'd argue the literal power levels just exemplified the other problems with the powercreep. It's bad enough when most of the cast is completely incapable of damaging any of the major enemies, but it gets even more annoying when the explanation boils down their invisible stat numbers being too low.
As for the humans powering up, I considered that, but the thing that makes me question the idea is how Matrona (and by extension Howzer) compares to all the other holy knights. Never mind Zaratras and Dreyfus being less than half as strong as Matrona, but even Diane, Ban, King, Gowther and Merlin had worse stats than her until the buffs most of them received during the events of NnT. This would mean that Howzer fighting against some low tier demons made him significantly stronger than a 3000 year old witch and an over 1000 year old fairy king. Surely those two would have ended up getting more fighting experience than Howzer over the course of all those centuries?
I assumed it meant that Uther was Kay's father and that bother were living together? Bartra also mentions that he is going to Uther in the story. So you are saying that Kid Arthur doesn't know that Uther was his father? Or that he knew but was living with Kay and his dad anyway?
The PL thing is simple. People have different potential, the Sins and the KoA are people with tremendous potential. Matrona, as strong as she was, normal Humans and so on have a certain limit. Look at Peliot, he was trained by Gowther and it doesn't look like he is stronger than Percival.
As for the humans powering up, I considered that, but the thing that makes me question the idea is how Matrona (and by extension Howzer) compares to all the other holy knights. Never mind Zaratras and Dreyfus being less than half as strong as Matrona, but even Diane, Ban, King, Gowther and Merlin had worse stats than her until the buffs most of them received during the events of NnT. This would mean that Howzer fighting against some low tier demons made him significantly stronger than a 3000 year old witch and an over 1000 year old fairy king. Surely those two would have ended up getting more fighting experience than Howzer over the course of all those centuries?
In theory, yes. But have you considered the following...
Nakaba doesn't care.
Seriously though, Matrona is such a left-field choice for a comparison, I really don't think he put much thought into the answer and just put out someone within his range. Plus, he easily could've given an exact number or something, but he just says stronger than Matrona with no additional context.
I guess the most logical in-story answer would be that participating in the Holy War upped their power levels substantially for some reason, but again, as you mentioned, it doesn't quite explain examples like Merlin and King. If you really want the bend suspension of disbelief to the utmost limit, you can say that the former had let her true ability wane as the years went by. The whole situation with her having "forgotten" she was immune to the Commandments could lend credence to that possibility. As for King, it could be argued that he was just never in any position to really grow given the implications that nothing on the level of the Holy War had occurred during his early tenure as Fairy King.
But even if you toss excuses their way, it wouldn't explain characters like Gelda and her clan, Gerharde, Nanashi, Zaneri, and Jenna, who not only were similarly long lived, but were participants in the previous Holy War.
Now that Howser is stronger than Matrona and should be around 10k in pl, do y'all think Gilthunder and Griamore are also around that level now, cause I think Gilthunder is most definitely in that tier
Gawain deserved that. Thumbs up. Actually it makes sense for her to start crying right after knowing her place (it irked me when she said "I'm the one who decides that" you ain't Escanor dear). Gawain is incredibly immature. A slightly more mature character would not throw a tantrum right off the bat and would take time to start crying and admit their wrongdoing later on when they realize they were wrong, usually characters written that way have a tendency to get very, very gloomy, isolated, and lonely until they open up about their struggle(s) to their new 'friends', after which they become a brighter version of themselves. But Gawain isn't like that, of course, she may maintain her hostility for a while instead of getting gloomy. So hats off to Nakaba for writing it the correct way on her character so far.
People should have faith in Nakaba writing a female character. Let's be honest majority of the times mangakas 'can't write a female character' the way you want it is because women 'correctly written' haven't surrounded them in their real lives. Due to cultural and social differences, women tend to have a more feminine nature in countries like Japan (and it's been proven time and time again that women have a major tendency to be far more kinder and empathetic than men). These men who draw manga often take inspiration from women they know in reality. These women may have personalities like Elizabeth majority of the time. That is pretty obvious. What I'm saying is these men are not very used to seeing women raging about in extreme physical buffs like men are. Men also tend to prefer personalities like Elizabeth's (see, Lucy is incredibly popular in Japan as opposed to Erza because of her more feminine nature, it's also a way for mangakas to sell their mangas by catering to the general public's interest, and men and women have always been softer to women and children(/childlike) personalities than grown men).
Anyway, Nakaba writing Gawain is like writing a character first without gender, and then putting on female appearance. In this instance it is incredibly helpful to write stronger female characters, since you don't create the gender first, rather its the backstory, the character and personality itself. What I'm saying is that Nakaba created the gender out of the character's personality, not the character's personality out of the gender, which was heavily the case with Elizabeth, and evidently so.
Edit: (okay and as a woman myself I do tend to have a softer analysis on female characters, I may be okay with damsel in distress trope only when it makes sense like in Elizabeth's case where she got kidnapped because of her powers and NOT because she was Meliodas's love interest, so in this case Elizabeth got kidnapped and had to be saved not because she was a man's woman, but because she was an ancient goddess whose blood was useful and that's successful damsel in distress trope used right there by Nakaba and I will always appreciate him for that)
Gawain deserved that. Thumbs up. Actually it makes sense for her to start crying right after knowing her place (it irked me when she said "I'm the one who decides that" you ain't Escanor dear). Gawain is incredibly immature. A slightly more mature character would not throw a tantrum right off the bat and would take time to start crying and admit their wrongdoing later on when they realize they were wrong, usually characters written that way have a tendency to get very, very gloomy, isolated, and lonely until they open up about their struggle(s) to their new 'friends', after which they become a brighter version of themselves. But Gawain isn't like that, of course, she may maintain her hostility for a while instead of getting gloomy. So hats off to Nakaba for writing it the correct way on her character so far.
To clarify more, Gawain currently cried because "I lost!" and not because "I Did Something Bad". Later on, when she'll mature, she'll reach a point where she will sincerely cry not because "I lost" but because "my friends are hurt".
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Pellegarde is impressive. I will look forward to him more in the future now.
Anyway, at this point only Lancelot knows what to do at the right moment. I'm just surprised he didn't rush out after Gawain, he should know what she's like and her intentions if he can read minds.
Poor Percival got a kick in the stomach. A normal human should be vomiting all they had taken in after getting a kick like that.
So, what happens now? Gawain is obviously not fighting anymore, Pelgard is injured and we know Percival isn't getting kidnapped. Does Tristan end up capturing Pel or will he manage to escape with a Teleport Incantation Orb or something?
