One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Rein Avara]

I don't like how people are down playing Jinbei, he's a monster in his own right. I'm not sure how some can claim he's peaked, but then in the past people have said Akainu has gotten stronger since he fought Aokiji even though he's a lot older than Jinbei.

In my mind Jinbei is perfectly capable of fighting a YC1 and coming out on top, the abilities he showed again Who's Who are enough to back that up, his proficiency with CoA (enough to wear he bent one of WW's fingers) and the damage that can be done with Fishman karate (seems like it can do some form of internal damage), not to mention he's usually and calm and intelligent fighter.

I think he could have very well been able to defeat Queen too if presented the opportunity.5

 

[grey matter]

I don't like how people are down playing Jinbei, he's a monster in his own right. I'm not sure how some can claim he's peaked, but then in the past people have said Akainu has gotten stronger since he fought Aokiji even though he's a lot older than Jinbei.

In my mind Jinbei is perfectly capable of fighting a YC1 and coming out on top, the abilities he showed again Who's Who are enough to back that up, his proficiency with CoA (enough to wear he bent one of WW's fingers) and the damage that can be done with Fishman karate (seems like it can do some form of internal damage), not to mention he's usually and calm and intelligent fighter.

I think he could have very well been able to defeat Queen too if presented the opportunity.5

Nobody is downplaying Jinbe, just pointing out that he has no business being on YC1 tier, as some people are making it out to be.

Before this chapter, pretty much nobody would even have entertained the idea of Jinbe being near YC1 tier, let alone "coming out on top" against YC1s

How exactly would Jinbe defeat Katakuri? He doesn't have combat speed on WCI Luffy, neither does he have future sight. The best that can be argued is that he has attack power on the same level of Katakuri. Katakuri vs Jinbe would be a repeat of Katakuri vs WCI Luffy (beginning parts before Luffy grew in haki) - a low-mid diff.
King no sold attacks that even made Kaido bleed, and that Kaido dodged. There is zero evidence that Jinbe has attack power anywhere to rooftop Zoro's, let alone above that (which is what is needed to damage King). King has combat speed on or slightly above current Zoro in his defence mode. King just stays in defence mode, there is nothing Jinbe can do to put him down.


Bounty isn't just strength, it's clout as well.
Jinbe has more clout than Sanji, which probably put his bounty above him.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 27, 2022 ---

Instead of Jinbei being as weak as Ace, why not say Ace was as strong as Jinbei? I mean, was Jinbei ever roasted for not beating Ace, or was Ace praised for tying with Jinbei?

The thing is, this was Ace prior to joining WBP.
As we saw in spinoff, and as was implied in main manga. Ace has a very high power curve, and grew stronger after joining the WPB.

Jinbe =/= peak Ace.
Peak Ace is powerful, arguably bordering on YC1 tier, not the rookie Ace that stalemated Jinbe.

 

[Nie Li]

Jinbe's bounty is as meaningful as Kid and Law having the same bounty as Luffy.

Jinbe defeated Who's Who, but he had to get some sort of anger boost to surpass him (which admitedly put him solidly above him), but Who's Who is supposed to be an ant himself compared to Jack, Queen and King. Jinbe can be considered high YC level, but he's definitely not YC1 material for now. Even him defeating Queen and Jack is debatable for now.

Hopefully he will get the next enemy Yonko's YC 2 or 3 for himself and prove he's really up there.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Jinbe's bounty is as meaningful as Kid and Law having the same bounty as Luffy.

Jinbe defeated Who's Who, but he had to get some sort of anger boost to surpass him (which admitedly put him solidly above him), but Who's Who is supposed to be an ant himself compared to Jack, Queen and King. Jinbe can be considered high YC level, but he's definitely not YC1 material for now. Even him defeating Queen and Jack is debatable for now.

Hopefully he will get the next enemy Yonko's YC 2 or 3 for himself and prove he's really up there.

Jinbei didn’t get an anger boost
He just got much more serious
He was casually handling who’s who prior to that tbh
It wasn’t a hard fight he was in control the only issue he even was cause his subordinates were interfering which is why it even took jinbei time to beat him
In one piece we’ve seen much stronger opponents take time with weaker opppnents luffy versus ulti , Zoro versus apoo , doesn’t have to be an automatic stomp

 

[Rein Avara]

Jinbe defeated Who's Who, but he had to get some sort of anger boost to surpass him (which admitedly put him solidly above him), but Who's Who is supposed to be an ant himself compared to Jack, Queen and King. Jinbe can be considered high YC level, but he's definitely not YC1 material for now. Even him defeating Queen and Jack is debatable for now.

What's this anger boost you keep talking about? He either had the strength to defeat him or he didn't.
Why can't Jinbei just have been stronger than WWs from the jump? Why do we have to justify his win with an anger boost, when he seemed fairly comfortable fighting WWs, the only reason he took as much damage as he did was because he was dealing with attacks from WWs underlings (which Jinbei himself admitted he was fine to deal with). He didn't struggle enough in that fight to the point where he would have required a haki bloom.

I'm not really understanding why we rationalise things like this. Does that mean Sanji got an anger boost against Queen too?

The way Queen fought was lackluster WWs demonstrated much better combat techniques than he did, he's far too reliant on his tech which someone like Jinbei given how smart of a fighter he is would be able to handle (with some difficulties).

 

[Fox666]

but Who's Who is supposed to be an ant himself compared to Jack, Queen and King.

Why? Because he wasn't an All-Star?

Appo and Hawkins were just Headliners, but I think they could put a good fight against the All-Stars

 

[Nie Li]

Jinbei didn’t get an anger boost
He just got much more serious
He was casually handling who’s who prior to that tbh
It wasn’t a hard fight he was in control the only issue he even was cause his subordinates were interfering which is why it even took jinbei time to beat him
In one piece we’ve seen much stronger opponents take time with weaker opppnents luffy versus ulti , Zoro versus apoo , doesn’t have to be an automatic stomp

What's this anger boost you keep talking about? He either had the strength to defeat him or he didn't.
Why can't Jinbei just have been stronger than WWs from the jump? Why do we have to justify his win with an anger boost, when he seemed fairly comfortable fighting WWs, the only reason he took as much damage as he did was because he was dealing with attacks from WWs underlings (which Jinbei himself admitted he was fine to deal with). He didn't struggle enough in that fight to the point where he would have required a haki bloom.

I'm not really understanding why we rationalise things like this. Does that mean Sanji got an anger boost against Queen too?

The way Queen fought was lackluster WWs demonstrated much better combat techniques than he did, he's far too reliant on his tech which someone like Jinbei given how smart of a fighter he is would be able to handle (with some difficulties).

Why? Because he wasn't an All-Star?

Appo and Hawkins were just Headliners, but I think they could put a good fight against the All-Stars

I had written a much longer answer for every post but chose to edit this as it's too much of a hassle.

I'll summarize for everyone: you can argue, and even convince me, that Jinbe's comfortably above Who's Who (which I don't currently believe. I believe he's stronger, but on the exact same tier as him, because he did need to get very angry to pull up the strength to beat him, and he wasn't fighting comfortably before that. They really seemed equals until that last "anger boost", which is a thing).

But, even if you convince me of that, "Jinbe being stronger than Who's Who" doesn't mean "Jinbe is as strong as Jack or stronger than Queen", much less that he's stronger than King or Katakuri as some have said in this thread. There are a few steps that you're jumping above.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I had written a much longer answer for every post but chose to edit this as it's too much of a hassle.

I'll summarize for everyone: you can argue, and even convince me, that Jinbe's comfortably above Who's Who (which I don't currently believe. I believe he's stronger, but on the exact same tier as him, because he did need to get very angry to pull up the strength to beat him, and he wasn't fighting comfortably before that. They really seemed equals until that last "anger boost", which is a thing).

But, even if you convince me of that, "Jinbe being stronger than Who's Who" doesn't mean "Jinbe is as strong as Jack or stronger than Queen", much less that he's stronger than King or Katakuri as some have said in this thread. There are a few steps that you're jumping above.

You can only ad anger boost if jinbei struggled
Jinbei literally was in control and had received minimal damage
Also one piece isn’t dbz, anger has rarely been a driving force for power ups
Jinbei didn’t even scratch the surface of his abilities , he’ll truly go all out in his next fight or final arc fight

 

[grey matter]

I had written a much longer answer for every post but chose to edit this as it's too much of a hassle.

I'll summarize for everyone: you can argue, and even convince me, that Jinbe's comfortably above Who's Who (which I don't currently believe. I believe he's stronger, but on the exact same tier as him, because he did need to get very angry to pull up the strength to beat him, and he wasn't fighting comfortably before that. They really seemed equals until that last "anger boost", which is a thing).

But, even if you convince me of that, "Jinbe being stronger than Who's Who" doesn't mean "Jinbe is as strong as Jack or stronger than Queen", much less that he's stronger than King or Katakuri as some have said in this thread. There are a few steps that you're jumping above.

Yep exactly.

I will argue however that Jinbei is a tier above WW.
Still a mid diff however, WW managed to give him injuries and had him reeling at some point. And, making an argument that Jinbe was purposely holding back to get injuries isn't really logical, why would you? That scenario made sense for Zoro vs King, only because Zoro thought not doing that would get him killed, plus he had no idea about how to use conqueror's haki to begin with

Jinbe's case was probably more of a WB vs Akainu scenario, or Luffy vs Lucci finale scenario. A momentary adrenaline boost from getting pissed.

I can even buy than Jinbe > Jack, though it's a reach.
Even Jinbe > Queen, if they are fighting in a boat in ocean or something.

Jinbe scaling to King or Katakuri is an absolute no.

You can only ad anger boost if jinbei struggled
Jinbei literally was in control and had received minimal damage
Also one piece isn’t dbz, anger has rarely been a driving force for power ups

Come on, you can't really look at the fight from start to end, and say Jinbe didn't even struggle.
Obviously, WW wasn't destroying Jinbe either. But he was certainly giving Jinbe trouble.

Anger, adrenaline rush etc has played parts in tipping the scales in OP quite a few times.
For example: Luffy literally had zero energy left, he was fully defeated by Lucci, unable to even move a muscle. Only reason he got up and started fighting again was adrenaline rush from thinking Lucci was gonna kill Ussop.
IMO anger/adrenaline gave WB the edge needed to defeat Akainu in marineford as well.

 

[HereNThere]

Jinbe's eventual stompage of Who's Who does not inherently mean he's capable of winning against Queen, King, or anyone relative to them. We do not know the gap in strength between Who's Who and those individuals, thus, we don't know where Jinbe falls between that gap or where his upper limit lies.

That being said, Jinbe's in a position where he could be as strong as the story needs him to be. I used to say he's in his prime, but I'm leaning more towards the possibility that he's closest to his prime, and hasn't hit it yet. Plus, Oda's passive xp gain from island to island likely applies to him. And he has plenty of things up his sleeves to reveal.

Also, also, we shouldn't be holding Jinbe to his performance against Ace still. Aside from the fact that that was a flashback, it was also pulling from pre time skip.

 

[Nie Li]

You can only ad anger boost if jinbei struggled
Jinbei literally was in control and had received minimal damage
Also one piece isn’t dbz, anger has rarely been a driving force for power ups
Jinbei didn’t even scratch the surface of his abilities , he’ll truly go all out in his next fight or final arc fight

If that happens, I'll acknowledge it. I even said so myself on my original post.

Hopefully he will get the next enemy Yonko's YC 2 or 3 for himself and prove he's really up there.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Personally, I believe Jinbei is miles ahead of WW and is YC level. When Jinebi uses his ACoA, WWs strongest attack didn't even get to Jinbei. WW just broke his finger and Jinbei proceeds to finish the fight in a single hit.

As for Jinbei not being serious and not using his full power from the beginning, it's the same reason for every single Shonen fights. Strongest attack/form is always saved for last for entertainment.

Also, Jinbei's bounty alone placed him above Sanji who defeated a YC2. For someone like Jinbei who is the nicest guy ever to receive such a high bounty speaks for itself.

I am with the faction who thinks Jinbei can defeat Queen.
I am not with the faction who thinks Jinbei can defeat YC1s. All YC1s had/have like a special ability to them that makes them earn that spot (Katakuri: ACoA and awakening, King: Impenetrable defense and speed, Marco: Immortal). Jinbei cannot beat peeps like that yet.

 

[Fox666]

I don't get the point of this discussion

Jinbe has been a commander-level character since his introduction

As a Straw Hat, he has been placed next to the monster trio:

I think Zoro and Sanji are now stronger than Jinbe, but the difference is not much

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Ace didn't do much in the main series. But there are definitely feats around implying that he is an upper commander level character

This is really my point. Ace didn't have much feats but was narratively said to be strong, with his comparison being to a Warlord and later being a Commander in WBs crew. At this point in the story we hadn't seen what the upper echelon could really do e.g. seeing YC & above fights post timeskip with all these advanced haki's, awakening etc.

Now that we have seen this level of fighting, Oda is basically making every character from earlier on in the story that narratively was in this tier of strength (YC & above) now be shown as strong. For some characters that had no known on screen feats this isn't a problem but for characters we've seen "go all out" it did become a consistency problem, which Oda has chosen to fix with a Retcon.

Which Shichibukai really got retconned?
Just Crocodile really. Moria was still treated as a weakling, and got kicked out of Shichibukai for being too weak.

The Warlords were introduced as a global force that rivaled the Yonko. The only world this would make narrative sense is if all of them are at least YC level or else they would just be fodder. The showings we have gotten out of them early on in the story (Crocodile &Moriah) were far below YC level of strength. Now post time skip both of them have been shown to matter. Crocodile clearly is a lot stronger now. Moriah lost to pre time skip Luffy who struggled against a Pacifista. Now we have seen him invade a Yonko island and take out all the fodder, when in reality Moriah should also be fodder. We saw Yonko Fodder take out Pacifista in Marineford and now we're expected to believe that Moriah is strong enough to warrant the officers of a Yonko crew (Devon & Shilew were the ones to take him out). He hasn't had much of a showing yet but he's already being narratively portrayed as if he is a stronger threat than what he should be.

The heart of the matter to me is - the Warlords were narratively a global force of elite pirates and as a group were later compared to Yonko. And now that we have seen Yonko & their crew fight, the Warlords are being retconned from paradise displays of power to match up with new world displays of power. This doesn't apply to every member, just the ones that had showings early on in the story.

Actually, there is consistency of characters peaking at somewhere in their 40s. After which they maintain their powers until they get really old and can't even do that.

We have solid evidence of this pattern, with Whitebeard, Garp, Sengoku and Rayleigh.
Both peaked (likely in their 40s), and then got weaker as they became old.

Franky hasn't hit 40, plus his powerups are almost exclusively coming from tech related stuff.

This age thing is a completely separate argument to me from retconning but I still disagree about their being consistency. People are as strong as they need to be for the story to work regardless of age.

There has been no consistency in when a person peaks or when a person is old how much weaker they are if they are weaker at all. For example:

• Luffy & peers (Zoro, Kid, Law, Yamato, Sabo, etc) reaching the highest level of power OP has displayed (or likely to reach it by EOS) in their 20s
  • Unless the ceiling on power levels gets removed (this would start making this whole argument moot if power levels don't have a ceiling), these characters are peaking before their 40s
• Big Mom is still strong well into her 60s (she is 68) without any one explicit mention of her being too old for combat in the same way we got for White Beard

There would have to be too many exceptions for their to be considered consistency. For every character you could argue follows the rule you can find another that doesn't.

In the original manga, all we saw was the start where Ace got no diff'd by WB in his sleep.
And then we move an year forward, where Ace became commander. We didn't see what happened in between,

The novel gives us that context. There is no retcon here

Even think of it from the Marineford arc perspective.
Everyone, both marines and pirates, considered Ace the next PK. Not only because of his lineage, but because of his strength.

In fact, it was his absolutely insane growth rate, similar to Luffy, that even allowed marines (and possibly WB) to figure out that Ace was Roger's son.

That's my point, the original story didn't show us anything. We had to use narrative context to know roughly where characters like Ace stood in the pecking order.

The later material both in manga & externally like Ace Novel have given us more details that match up with the current portrayals of high level of fighters. These characters haven't been directly retconned, especially the less we knew about them e.g. if we didn't see them fight before then they don't need retconning.

With Ace I'm saying he was narratively portrayed to be a YC level fighter but we never got to see him display anything like we are seeing of YC in fights post time skip. If I were to imagine a resurrected Ace at same power level as the day he died in a fight in today's OP, he would be using CoC, CoA, CoO and likely an advanced version of one of these haki. His portrayal & feats just would appear far more powerful than the portrayals we got pre time skip despite in all reality of him being at the same exact level. To me this is a light retconn to have a character display abilities that were added to characters of their tier at a later point in the story.

@DeadlyBeast @LaGOAT
As for Crocodile getting stronger.

Honestly, Oda can do it without even a retcon. If he chooses to go that route.

What happened to Crocodile was pretty much what happened to Moria. Got rekt by a Yonko, lost the will, and went back to paradise.
The reverse happening to Crocodile would give him back his lost powers.

Basically, what I posted here:

Yes Oda could have done it without a retcon but that is not what he chose to do. Oda retconned characters from earlier on in the story to keep them relevant and have narrative consistency is all I'm arguing.

 

[LaGOAT]

Ace's feats in manga, pre timeskip.

- pushing BB with darkness fruit to a high diff.
BB was pretty powerful even without fruit, as Shanks himself warned. And had a DF which countered Ace

- Ace matched an attack from Aokiji.

Ace didn't do much in the main series. But there are definitely feats around implying that he is an upper commander level character

Which Shichibukai really got retconned?
Just Crocodile really. Moria was still treated as a weakling, and got kicked out of Shichibukai for being too weak.



Actually, there is consistency of characters peaking at somewhere in their 40s. After which they maintain their powers until they get really old and can't even do that.

We have solid evidence of this pattern, with Whitebeard, Garp, Sengoku and Rayleigh.
Both peaked (likely in their 40s), and then got weaker as they became old.

Franky hasn't hit 40, plus his powerups are almost exclusively coming from tech related stuff.



In the original manga, all we saw was the start where Ace got no diff'd by WB in his sleep.
And then we move an year forward, where Ace became commander. We didn't see what happened in between,

The novel gives us that context. There is no retcon here

Even think of it from the Marineford arc perspective.
Everyone, both marines and pirates, considered Ace the next PK. Not only because of his lineage, but because of his strength.

In fact, it was his absolutely insane growth rate, similar to Luffy, that even allowed marines (and possibly WB) to figure out that Ace was Roger's son.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 27, 2022 ---

@DeadlyBeast @LaGOAT
As for Crocodile getting stronger.

Honestly, Oda can do it without even a retcon. If he chooses to go that route.

What happened to Crocodile was pretty much what happened to Moria. Got rekt by a Yonko, lost the will, and went back to paradise.
The reverse happening to Crocodile would give him back his lost powers.

Basically, what I posted here:

But ur proving my point by saying crocodile gotten stronger within impel down and 2 year timeskip. Ur making it seems that crocodile was “YC1 tier” from the jump. like do u think he lost the use of haki? Also do u think that MF crocodile will beat MF luffy?

I guess u also thinking that current kaido is weaker than 20 years ago kaido vs oden right?

the problem with ur ace argument is u think rookie ace=ace vs BB which isn’t the case

my point of this Argument is people can get stronger over time-big or small

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2022 ---

The issues with this debate is some beleive jimbei is stronger/equal/weaker to sanji. I’m on the fence with jinbei is slightly stronger than sanji and it isn’t because of the bounty I always been saying this s since the timeskip.

@grey matter dont think jinbei can’t beat queen

I truly believe so. So do others. If sanji need a powerup to down queen. And if ppl believe jinbei can beat queen it would mean at the minimum they are equal

plus we never seen jinbei go all out

 

[LadyVados]

I've always put Pre-Emma Zoro as YC2 tier since he was stronger than Killer when both were nerfed and Killer could somewhat hold his own against Kaido and Big Mom. Do I think he could beat Smoothie ? Yeah he probably could tbh.

In fact I may put him above Katakuri in terms of brute strength and durability (though of course he doesn't have FS or Kata's versatility). He also has Asura.

 

[grey matter]

I've always put Pre-Emma Zoro as YC2 tier since he was stronger than Killer when both were nerfed and Killer could somewhat hold his own against Kaido and Big Mom. Do I think he could beat Smoothie ? Yeah he probably could tbh.

In fact I may put him above Katakuri in terms of brute strength and durability (though of course he doesn't have FS or Kata's versatility). He also has Asura.

Killer likely improved in the few weeks between raid and prison break as well.
But yeah, I would put pre Asura Zoro in YC2 tier as well, assuming he has 3 swords (shusui instead of enma).


Beginning of Wano Zoro: YC2 tier
Rooftop Zoro: borderline YC1 tier
Post Wano Zoro: YC1+ tier

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 27, 2022 ---

But ur proving my point by saying crocodile gotten stronger within impel down and 2 year timeskip. Ur making it seems that crocodile was “YC1 tier” from the jump. like do u think he lost the use of haki? Also do u think that MF crocodile will beat MF luffy?

I guess u also thinking that current kaido is weaker than 20 years ago kaido vs oden right?

the problem with ur ace argument is u think rookie ace=ace vs BB which isn’t the case

my point of this Argument is people can get stronger over time-big or small

Man, you aren't seeing my point at all. Read carefully.......
I didn't say Crocodile grew stronger in impel down. He might have improved in the 2 years, and it can potentially be attributed to him regaining his lost strength (will), rather than actually getting stronger

I think current Kaido is only slightly stronger than Kaido from past, cause he was 39 then. Say current is 100, Kaido that ODen fought was 95

WTF, I never made that argument at all.
Peak Ace >> rookie Ace has ALWAYS been my position. Peak Ace = borderline YC1 tier. Rookie Ace ~ Jinbe ~ YC3 tier

Yeah, if they haven't reached their peak age.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2022 ---

The issues with this debate is some beleive jimbei is stronger/equal/weaker to sanji. I’m on the fence with jinbei is slightly stronger than sanji and it isn’t because of the bounty I always been saying this s since the timeskip.

@grey matter dont think jinbei can’t beat queen

I truly believe so. So do others. If sanji need a powerup to down queen. And if ppl believe jinbei can beat queen it would mean at the minimum they are equal

plus we never seen jinbei go all out

There is nothing suggesting Jinbe can take down Queen, except if he's fighting in ocean. In which case, I can maybe see Jinbe winning.

 

[LadyVados]

I think Ace was clearly portrayed as weaker than WB's top 3 commanders.

He was WB's YC4 in a way.

Sabo is what Ace would have been with 2 years of training and he's like YC1+ now.

YC1 Ace is definitely a stretch.

YC4 may not be a bad place to put him.

Do I see him beating Cracker or Doffy... Probably not TBH.

His bounty also reflects a YC4 (It's about the same as Snack's)

 

[grey matter]

I think Ace was clearly portrayed as weaker than WB's top 3 commanders.

He was WB's YC4 in a way.

Sabo is what Ace would have been with 2 years of training and he's like YC1+ now.

YC1 Ace is definitely a stretch.

YC4 may not be a bad place to put him.

Do I see him beating Cracker or Doffy... Probably not TBH.

His bounty also reflects a YC4 (It's about the same as Snack's)

I didn't say Ace was YC1 tier, said he was approaching that level.
Rookie Ace did stalemate Jinbe, that alone puts him at least in YC3 tier.

Ace gave BB with darkness fruit a high diff, inspite of having DF disadvantage.
BB was strong even with DF, scarred Shanks.

Ace also matched an attack from Aokiji.

Plus, he also stalemated Yamato. As well as fought casual WB for many hours, according to spinoff.

Ace is definitely on the upper ends of commander level.


Comparing him to Sabo is kinda flawed IMO.
Because Ace had portrayal similar to Luffy. Insane bloodline and potential. He was treated as the likely future PK by WB, Shanks, pirates all over the world like Chinjao and even marines. Which was why marines wanted to kill Ace at all cost.

 

[LaGOAT]

Killer likely improved in the few weeks between raid and prison break as well.
But yeah, I would put pre Asura Zoro in YC2 tier as well, assuming he has 3 swords (shusui instead of enma).


Beginning of Wano Zoro: YC2 tier
Rooftop Zoro: borderline YC1 tier
Post Wano Zoro: YC1+ tier

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 27, 2022 ---

Man, you aren't seeing my point at all. Read carefully.......
I didn't say Crocodile grew stronger in impel down. He might have improved in the 2 years, and it can potentially be attributed to him regaining his lost strength (will), rather than actually getting stronger

I think current Kaido is only slightly stronger than Kaido from past, cause he was 39 then. Say current is 100, Kaido that ODen fought was 95

WTF, I never made that argument at all.
Peak Ace >> rookie Ace has ALWAYS been my position. Peak Ace = borderline YC1 tier. Rookie Ace ~ Jinbe ~ YC3 tier

Yeah, if they haven't reached their peak age.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2022 ---

There is nothing suggesting Jinbe can take down Queen, except if he's fighting in ocean. In which case, I can maybe see Jinbe winning.

again ur saying that he lost his “will” in what sense? Him improving means he has gotten stronger no matter how u slice it Ur bring Moria as example and even peak Moria isn’t-close to kaido imo

Thank u just prove my point u clearly said current kaido>39 years old kaido despite being older. it doesn’t matter even if it’s slightly it’s still an increase.

And I’m saying that the jinbei that fought ace isn’t the same jinbei now (strength wise)

Why don’t u think he can beat queen? Queen just has durability and jinbei hasn’t gone all out yet

I reread the fight jinbei look like he was in control the whole fight and doesn’t look like he wasn’t struggling at all