One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Fox666]

I do not thinkbSanji will get CoC, especially if Yamato does end up joining the crew.
4 CoC users would be a bit much

We can only cope

It's an anime cliché, super unique abilities eventually become common place

 

[Nie Li]

We can only cope

It's an anime cliché, super unique abilities eventually become common place

That was already the case with simply having a devil fruit.

In One Piece, there's the obvious excuse that the closer we get to Laugh Tale, the more users of rare and unique abilities are concentrated in a small area, yet still amount to close to 0% of the world population (0% speaking of CoC users, obviously higher with DF users).

 

[grey matter]

I think the biggest head scratcher is Trafalgar Law not having Haoshoku. I understand Oda is trying to do something with him and Kidd having facets of Luffys special features but it just looks silly when in context of the story.

Law isn't Conqueror's material based on his persona.
The difference in demeanor as we saw in Dressrosa was pretty clear. While in prison, we saw Luffy and Kid were built alike

I'd implore the people here to check out the video made by Morj regarding who are conquerors materials. It was the best analysis regarding the topic I've seen. The video primarily focuses on Blackbeard and why he won't have conquerors haki, but he addresses the Luffy/Zoro/Sanji and Luffy/Kid/Law situations as common examples here.

 

[JamJar12]

Law isn't Conqueror's material based on his persona.
The difference in demeanor as we saw in Dressrosa was pretty clear. While in prison, we saw Luffy and Kid were built alike

I'd implore the people here to check out the video made by Morj regarding who are conquerors materials. It was the best analysis regarding the topic I've seen. The video primarily focuses on Blackbeard and why he won't have conquerors haki, but he addresses the Luffy/Zoro/Sanji and Luffy/Kid/Law situations as common examples here.

This is flatly wrong. Multiple different character types have conquerors haki. Laws character clearly fits into this group of characters that Oda has set out.

It's a cop out that he doesn't have it.

 

[Nie Li]

This is flatly wrong. Multiple different character types have conquerors haki. Laws character clearly fits into this group of characters that Oda has set out.

It's a cop out that he doesn't have it.

What does this "group of characters" have in common to you, then?

The video does mention something that all CoC users have in common and that Law, Sabo, etc don't have, so if you want to counterargument it you should provide an actual argument.

 

[JamJar12]

What does this "group of characters" have in common to you, then?

The video does mention something that all CoC users have in common and that Law, Sabo, etc don't have, so if you want to counterargument it you should provide an actual argument.

So the argument is that Law avoids fights sometimes (He avoids fights less times then he knowingly takes them on) and that's why he's not a conqueror. But then you have Doflamingo who is a conqueror who bent over backwards to avoid fighting Kaido. You have Whitebeard who actively avoided fighting with Blackbeard.

 

[Nie Li]

So the argument is that Law avoids fights sometimes (He avoids fights less times then he knowingly takes them on) and that's why he's not a conqueror. But then you have Doflamingo who is a conqueror who bent over backwards to avoid fighting Kaido. You have Whitebeard who actively avoided fighting with Blackbeard.

Yet Doflamingo didn't back away from Aokiji when he was in front of him. Whitebeard never avoided fighting with Blackbeard.

Doflamingo not wanting to enrage Kaido is a valid counterargument, but, have we even seen Doflamingo actually run away or retreat from a fight? Plotting and not wanting to go against the Beasts Pirates isn't the same as running away from a fight that's already in front of them.

For example, Kid was willing to plot, make alliances and bide his time before he went against Kaido, instead of just going facefirst with his crew. However, when presented with Kaido right in front of him, and despite Hawkins backing away from the fight, he did not. Do we have any examples of Doflamingo running away or turning coat on the spot like Hawkins did? I don't remember any.

 

[Fox666]

Yet Doflamingo didn't back away from Aokiji when he was in front of him. Whitebeard never avoided fighting with Blackbeard.

Doflamingo not wanting to enrage Kaido is a valid counterargument, but, have we even seen Doflamingo actually run away or retreat from a fight? Plotting and not wanting to go against the Beasts Pirates isn't the same as running away from a fight that's already in front of them.

For example, Kid was willing to plot, make alliances and bide his time before he went against Kaido, instead of just going facefirst with his crew. However, when presented with Kaido right in front of him, and despite Hawkins backing away from the fight, he did not. Do we have any examples of Doflamingo running away or turning coat on the spot like Hawkins did? I don't remember any.

I think Law is the same tho

He makes a strategy that will work out the best for him, and avoid unecessary fights, but he won't run from them if he needs to

Law would surely stress out if things didn't went according to his plan and he had to fight Kaido all of a sudden... but he wouldn't back out from a fight

 

[JamJar12]

Yet Doflamingo didn't back away from Aokiji when he was in front of him. Whitebeard never avoided fighting with Blackbeard.

Doflamingo not wanting to enrage Kaido is a valid counterargument, but, have we even seen Doflamingo actually run away or retreat from a fight? Plotting and not wanting to go against the Beasts Pirates isn't the same as running away from a fight that's already in front of them.

For example, Kid was willing to plot, make alliances and bide his time before he went against Kaido, instead of just going facefirst with his crew. However, when presented with Kaido right in front of him, and despite Hawkins backing away from the fight, he did not. Do we have any examples of Doflamingo running away or turning coat on the spot like Hawkins did? I don't remember any.

When has Law run away from a fight? In fact he's incredibly antagonistic ever when it goes against him.

 

[Nie Li]

I think Law is the same tho

He makes a strategy that will work out the best for him, and avoid unecessary fights, but he won't run from them if he needs to

Law would surely stress out if things didn't went according to his plan and he had to fight Kaido all of a sudden... but he wouldn't back out from a fight

When has Law run away from a fight? In fact he's incredibly antagonistic ever when it goes against him.

That was answered in the video: When Luffy vs Kaido round one happened, Law chose to run and didn't understand Luffy not doing so.

It doesn't mean he's a coward, and neither are Sanji, Jinbe or any other strong willed characters that simply wouldn't act that way in that kind of specific scenario.


The real reason why some have CoC and others don't may be something different, but I haven't seen a more solid alternative reasoning yet. The video holds up pretty well.

 

[Fox666]

That was answered in the video: When Luffy vs Kaido round one happened, Law chose to run and didn't understand Luffy not doing so.

It doesn't mean he's a coward, and neither are Sanji, Jinbe or any other strong willed characters that simply wouldn't act that way in that kind of specific scenario.


The real reason why some have CoC and others don't may be something different, but I haven't seen a more solid alternative reasoning yet. The video holds up pretty well.

Law explained his plan, it wasn't time to fight Kaido yet, they would be at disadvantage there

And Law did not abandoned Luffy, he was still there to rescue him:

Law was interrupted by Hawkins, who hit him with Sea Stone nails, and he forced to escape because he couldn't fight under the effect of Sea Stone

But we have seen Luffy running away under similar circumstances:

So I don't think the reasoning of Law running from Kaido holds

Law could still be revealed to be a conqueror... Kid has never used it in the manga, and we only know because Kaido casually mentioned it in a an unrelated conversation

 

[Nie Li]

Law explained his plan, it wasn't time to fight Kaido yet, they would be at disadvantage there

And Law did not abandoned Luffy, he was still there to rescue him:

Law was interrupted by Hawkins, who hit him with Sea Stone nails, and he forced to escape because he couldn't fight under the effect of Sea Stone

But we have seen Luffy running away under similar circumstances:

So I don't think the reasoning of Law running from Kaido holds

Law could still be revealed to be a conqueror... Kid has never used it in the manga, and we only know because Kaido casually mentioned it in a an unrelated conversation

Fair enough, I'm just saying his attitude there was different: Luffy should have also known it was not the time to fight him yet, yet he did.

But yes, as far as we as readers are concerned, even Sogeking could be revealed to have CoC.

 

[JamJar12]

Fair enough, I'm just saying his attitude there was different: Luffy should have also known it was not the time to fight him yet, yet he did.

But yes, as far as we as readers are concerned, even Sogeking could be revealed to have CoC.

Yeah, Luffy is dumb. Most other conquerors wouldn't attack Kaido there, especially if they had a massive plan to attack Kaido at a later date. This is not Law running from a fight, its him choosing when is best to fight.

 

[Nie Li]

Yeah, Luffy is dumb. Most other conquerors wouldn't attack Kaido there, especially if they had a massive plan to attack Kaido at a later date. This is not Law running from a fight, its him choosing when is best to fight.

What you're saying in that bolded part, exactly as you're wording it, is also what I'm saying and what the video said. It's a different attitude from most conqueror's, if not all, that we know of; especially Luffy, Zoro, Ace, and Kid, the three we know more about. And Roger, going by comments from other characters that are quoted in the video.

Once again: this isn't about saying Law is a coward or whatever for wanting to run away there, or that it wasn't the smart thing to do: it was. The video acknowledges that.

 

[grey matter]

At the end of the day, it's a gut instinct where characters are similar/different in their demeanor. If you intuitively get it, you get it.

Let's take a look at the popular "trios"
Luffy and Kid are similar in a way Law isn't.
Luffy and Zoro are similar in a way Sanji isn't.
Luffy and Ace are similar in a way Sabo isn't.

The conquerors tend to be more unreasonable, petty/stubborn and ambitious in a way where they're ready to give their lives for that ambition.
That's not to say others aren't willing to risk their lives. But the way Law, Sanji or Jinbe risks it is different.
Luffy (and Kid) is fine to die trying to become PK. Zoro is fine to die trying to become WSS. Law is fine to die for vengeance against Doflamingo and to learn secret of D. Sanji and Jinbe for the sake of their crewmates.

 

[Rmstorm]

What you're saying in that bolded part, exactly as you're wording it, is also what I'm saying and what the video said. It's a different attitude from most conqueror's, if not all, that we know of; especially Luffy, Zoro, Ace, and Kid, the three we know more about. And Roger, going by comments from other characters that are quoted in the video.

Once again: this isn't about saying Law is a coward or whatever for wanting to run away there, or that it wasn't the smart thing to do: it was. The video acknowledges that.

Luffy was savijg his crews lives. If he did not attack kaido, kaido would have continued his assualt on Luffy's crew.

 

[Core D. Roy]

- Vegapunk explains the difficulty of replicating Devil Fruits :

• Zoans are easy as most are based on animals seems like Mysticals are really hard though and require special circumstances
• Paramecia just needs the Lineage factor of the user
• Logias : Vegapunk doesn't want to talk about as its astronomical and seems like there is a story about how he got Kizarus

This really does just beg the question: why were there only ever specifically ONE copy of every devil fruit before? What process that made them in the past limited them to be only ONE, and how did Vegapunk break that constant rule?

But yes, as far as we as readers are concerned, even Sogeking could be revealed to have CoC.

My money's on Brook. Dude's got the strongest will in the entire series in my opinion, just based on the past trauma he inexplicably came out of almost entirely sane. It has good synergy with his devil fruit, and it'd be interesting to have a CoC user who doesn't use CoA or CoO.

 

[JamJar12]

What you're saying in that bolded part, exactly as you're wording it, is also what I'm saying and what the video said. It's a different attitude from most conqueror's, if not all, that we know of; especially Luffy, Zoro, Ace, and Kid, the three we know more about. And Roger, going by comments from other characters that are quoted in the video.

Once again: this isn't about saying Law is a coward or whatever for wanting to run away there, or that it wasn't the smart thing to do: it was. The video acknowledges that.

But this ignores guys like Whitebeard and Doflamingo who do behave that way. It also ignores that Zoro has shown he won't fight if not necessary at times.

 

[Nie Li]

But this ignores guys like Whitebeard and Doflamingo who do behave that way. It also ignores that Zoro has shown he won't fight if not necessary at times.

What examples do we have of Whitebeard, Doflamingo or Zoro doing running from a fight they can't win? Serious question, I'm willing to listen, but keep in mind that we're talking about the characters facing a fight they can't win right in front of them, and being willing to die fighting instead of retreating when they still can, not about Whitebeard not wanting to go to Wano to not risk the lives of his other children over revenge.

 

[JamJar12]

What examples do we have of Whitebeard, Doflamingo or Zoro doing running from a fight they can't win? Serious question, I'm willing to listen, but keep in mind that we're talking about the characters facing a fight they can't win right in front of them, and being willing to die fighting instead of retreating when they still can, not about Whitebeard not wanting to go to Wano to not risk the lives of his other children over revenge.

So you want me to give an example for these characters that doesn't apply to Law? Seems weird.

The Kaido fight wasn't what you just described. It was a conflict Luffy went out of his way to start.

EDIT: Are we forgetting the whole Shabondy Archipilego arc? Or Impel Down?