One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LaGOAT]

Vivre Card states Luffy was the first person to make Kaido use his full power since Oden.

can u show me this? And also in what context?

 

[Pirate Queen]

I

can u show me this? And also in what context?

It wasn't a vivrecard, it was Oda's personal Wano notes.

 

[LaGOAT]

I

It wasn't a vivrecard, it was Oda's personal Wano notes.

lol oh but-in what context tho? Would u say that he was going all out the moment luffy got to rooftop?

 

[Pirate Queen]

lol oh but-in what context tho? Would u say that he was going all out the moment luffy got to rooftop?

It doesn't really matter what Oda's notes say. What matters is what we saw in the fight and it is fact that Kaido was not fighting all out from the beginning. I just wanted to clarify it wasn't a vivre cars but a special reveal of Oda's Wano notes. The notes also said the final clash between Kaido and Luffy was felt for over 1000 miles away.

I don't know where to find those notes tho, sorry. It was just things about Kaido and Luffy

 

[LaGOAT]

It doesn't really matter what Oda's notes say. What matters is what we saw in the fight and it is fact that Kaido was not fighting all out from the beginning. I just wanted to clarify it wasn't a vivre cars but a special reveal of Oda's Wano notes. The notes also said the final clash between Kaido and Luffy was felt for over 1000 miles away.

I don't know where to find those notes tho, sorry. It was just things about Kaido and Luffy

ard thanks I feel like he is trolling lol

 

[Pirate Queen]

ard thanks I feel like he is trolling lol

Could be talking about this

 

[LaGOAT]

Damn y’all banned the dude I didn’t notice that lol I feel like his trolling like ain’t no way he was that serious

 

[Pirate Queen]

Since all the youtubers are doing a beginning of the year Top 30 Strongest, we should do one here. Mods, does that warrant its own thread or is here fine?

 

[grey matter]

Damn he got banned, why? Was entertaining at least lol

 

[Pirate Queen]

Damn he got banned, why? Was entertaining at least lol

Because he came after a mod lol, no quicker way to get banned

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2023 ---

Who thinks Mallegan is awakened? His red venom was literally coming out of the environment around him, pouring out of the walls

 

[baditz]

Because he came after a mod lol, no quicker way to get banned

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2023 ---

Who thinks Mallegan is awakened? His red venom was literally coming out of the environment around him, pouring out of the walls

If zoan User in ID are awakening, it will be super weird if Magelan are not,,

 

[HereNThere]

Since all the youtubers are doing a beginning of the year Top 30 Strongest, we should do one here. Mods, does that warrant its own thread or is here fine?

Here is fine. We've done it in here before.

Damn he got banned, why? Was entertaining at least lol

Because he came after a mod lol, no quicker way to get banned

For transparency sake, he was being rude and some of his comments were out of line. Plus he had prior infractions. I'd prefer we not dwell on it too much and just move on. He'll be back eventually.

 

[kkck]

Because he came after a mod lol, no quicker way to get banned

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2023 ---

Who thinks Mallegan is awakened? His red venom was literally coming out of the environment around him, pouring out of the walls

Pouring out of the environment is not the same as the environment transforming into poison. I don't recall magellan transforming impel down itself into poison. Regarding zoans, I think it's possible that zoan awakenings are just easier to attain than other types. So far awakening as been framed as your mind catching up to your body. It's not a big stretch that your mind catching up to you being a gerbil is easier than becoming accustomed to being able to ooze wax or making walls fart or whatever.

 

[Nie Li]

Pouring out of the environment is not the same as the environment transforming into poison. I don't recall magellan transforming impel down itself into poison. Regarding zoans, I think it's possible that zoan awakenings are just easier to attain than other types. So far awakening as been framed as your mind catching up to your body. It's not a big stretch that your mind catching up to you being a gerbil is easier than becoming accustomed to being able to ooze wax or making walls fart or whatever.

That'd turn the Beasts Pirates into sadder characters for not having awakenings.

 

[Core D. Roy]

That'd turn the Beasts Pirates into sadder characters for not having awakenings.

It's totally ridiculous that the fandom has to have a debate about whether or not some top tier characters like Kaidou and Big Mom are awakened. Oda goes out of his way to blatantly spell these things out sometimes, and then leaves them purposefully vague other times. It's fun to debate about whether or not characters like Crocodile and Magellan are awakened, because they're very tertiary to the story at this point and aren't world-class top-tiers. Less fun having the debate about Big Mom and Kaidou.

My gut says "duh, of course they are", but the lack of a title card spelling it out, a clear 'activation' moment, etc. It's just not something that should've been left open to interpretation.

Also King and Queen definitely not having awakenings is bonkers bananas. What's the point of an all-beast crew if the top All-Stars didn't have awakening @_@

My headcanon for the big two that helps my nerd-brain sleep at night:

• Big Mom has basically always been awakened. Soul Pocus and giving souls to inanimate objects just feels like an awakened ability. She's just a ridiculous prodigy
• Kaidou's dragon form IS the awakening, and he did have a koi form before he awakened the fruit which we'll see in a future Rocks flashback. Momo's transformation always being the 'awakened' dragon form is because Vegapunk took Kaidou's lineage factor afterwards and just had never known about the koi form; given his sketchy knowledge of mythical zoan awakening revealed recently, this would be a fun twist. Alternatively, it's just the lava-hot Susano'o technique Kaidou used at the end of the fight that was an awakened technique (which is... less fun)

 

[XXGenesis]

It's totally ridiculous that the fandom has to have a debate about whether or not some top tier characters like Kaidou and Big Mom are awakened. Oda goes out of his way to blatantly spell these things out sometimes, and then leaves them purposefully vague other times. It's fun to debate about whether or not characters like Crocodile and Magellan are awakened, because they're very tertiary to the story at this point and aren't world-class top-tiers. Less fun having the debate about Big Mom and Kaidou.

My gut says "duh, of course they are", but the lack of a title card spelling it out, a clear 'activation' moment, etc. It's just not something that should've been left open to interpretation.

Also King and Queen definitely not having awakenings is bonkers bananas. What's the point of an all-beast crew if the top All-Stars didn't have awakening @_@

For all the points you’ve mentioned. The ambiguity of Awakened Fruits or Haki 1000+ Chapters it’s super annoying. I feel like the payoff to the mysteries such as those are well over due. And the Ambiguity is just detrimental ant this point instead of generating more interest or hype.

Even if we have 300/400 more chapters left until the end. I would like some concrete answers. I fee the fans deserve it at this point….I.e What made AOT so fricking good…Isayama gave you pieces to the puzzle as the story went on…..Oda owes us yo lol

 

[Core D. Roy]

For all the points you’ve mentioned. The ambiguity of Awakened Fruits or Haki 1000+ Chapters it’s super annoying. I feel like the payoff to the mysteries such as those are well over due. And the Ambiguity is just detrimental ant this point instead of generating more interest or hype.

Even if we have 300/400 more chapters left until the end. I would like some concrete answers. I fee the fans deserve it at this point….I.e What made AOT so fricking good…Isayama gave you pieces to the puzzle as the story went on…..Oda owes us yo lol

It's not even the ambiguity of haki that gets me annoyed, it's that it's narrative caulk to be used to gum up the cracks in the logic foundation of the power system. It was invented as a counter to logia, and every time it's got a buff in the series it's been a "solution" to some other problem. Can't beat the guy who casually sees the future? Just try really hard until you too can see the future. Can't pierce the unpiercable skin of the Strongest Creature? Take a couple weeks to learn a simple haki technique everyone should have. The ability to clash with top-tiers in the world that you can't gain and are only born with? The grand secret to advanced CoC was just to... smear it on your attacks like it's just fancy CoA.

It's cool as hell in its execution, sure. But the mechanics behind it are frustratingly consistent in how they bend in the wind just to suit Luffy (and Zoro) getting all the power as quickly as possible.

 

[kkck]

• Big Mom has basically always been awakened. Soul Pocus and giving souls to inanimate objects just feels like an awakened ability. She's just a ridiculous prodigy
• Kaidou's dragon form IS the awakening, and he did have a koi form before he awakened the fruit which we'll see in a future Rocks flashback. Momo's transformation always being the 'awakened' dragon form is because Vegapunk took Kaidou's lineage factor afterwards and just had never known about the koi form; given his sketchy knowledge of mythical zoan awakening revealed recently, this would be a fun twist. Alternatively, it's just the lava-hot Susano'o technique Kaidou used at the end of the fight that was an awakened technique (which is... less fun)

I don't think that specific ability could evidence an awakening. Mostly because caramel also used it to create a sun homie. Soul pocus seems like a rather lackluster ability to have as an awakening since it mostly works on people who fear her. It's a far cry from the usual finisher type techniques we normally see from awakenings. If big mom used an awakened technique IMO it would be the powering up thing she did towards the end since she kinda used souls on herself, a living thing. Even though her ability couldn't imbue souls into living things as said earlier. Technically she consumed the souls or something but it feels a bit wonky.

On the kaido front I could buy the lava dragon thing being an awakened technique though it's weird that we didn't see a hybrid awakening. It's just not fair to not see that if kaido had it. I don't buy momo being perma awakened. His fruit even having the capacity to awaken is technically unknown considering what vegapunk said earlier. And perhaps most importantly, kaido lacked the cloud ribbon which luffy and lucci (and yamato) share. I suppose it's possible that oda is saving the details on the dragon fruit's awakening for momo but that is the sort of thing that us readers should regard to be as insulting as a straight up open hand slap on our dumb faces.

 

[XXGenesis]

It's not even the ambiguity of haki that gets me annoyed, it's that it's narrative caulk to be used to gum up the cracks in the logic foundation of the power system. It was invented as a counter to logia, and every time it's got a buff in the series it's been a "solution" to some other problem. Can't beat the guy who casually sees the future? Just try really hard until you too can see the future. Can't pierce the unpiercable skin of the Strongest Creature? Take a couple weeks to learn a simple haki technique everyone should have. The ability to clash with top-tiers in the world that you can't gain and are only born with? The grand secret to advanced CoC was just to... smear it on your attacks like it's just fancy CoA.

It's cool as hell in its execution, sure. But the mechanics behind it are frustratingly consistent in how they bend in the wind just to suit Luffy (and Zoro) getting all the power as quickly as possible.

The ambiguity of stuff like did Sanji know or use Hardening before Wano….Does ACOC hurt Lunarians…

I believe ambiguous scenes like these tie into the funky mechanics of haki. Like you mentioned Why or how is information about Haki as a power system so shrouded. It doesn’t make sense…..I don’t hate ACOC…but it’s similar asf to ACOA. ACoC should really be the deciding factor in a battle of those with it and those without

 

[Core D. Roy]

kaido lacked the cloud ribbon which luffy and lucci (and yamato) share.

The fact that this is the strongest reasoning for Kaidou not being awakened sucks. But it's totally true and makes sense for these three characters who fully embody their zoan DF to be the ones we've seen awakened. Then I think about ID Jailors and my brain hurts.