One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Then post Udon Luffy=pre Udon Luffy except in ap (thanks to advCoA) since Luffy only fought a bunch of fodders in Udon. Post Udon Snakeman blitzing Kaido means pre Udon or WCI Snakeman can blitz Kaido too therefore Katakuri who outpaced WCI Snakeman can also blitz Kaido. Kaido needs a lucky shot to beat Katakuri.

Are you saying Kata can beat Kaido? Or just stating speed feats?
If the former, then that means Kata is stronger than BM too?

 

[BlackTiger]

Are you saying Kata can beat Kaido? Or just stating speed feats?
If the former, then that means Kata is stronger than BM too?

Kaido>Katakuri. Katakuri is better than Kaido in speed and CoO stats only. Kaido needs a lucky shot to land a hit on Katakuri if Snakeman blitzed Kaido that much. Or he needs to outlast Katakuri haki pool with his endurance, durability and his own haki pool too since Kaido's haki pool>Katakuri's haki pool so Katakuri would run out of haki first.

 

[john ellis]

@kkck so we were given a hard limit of g4 of how long it lasts when it was introduced. I think g5 lasts as long as it needs to plot wise so, so yes it lasts long enough to beat kaido and long enough to beat kizaru. Even though they might be vastly different times. Which can be explained due to luffy inheriting the will of the pirate king rhe will to conquer all those on the sea. Now it doesn’t mean luffy beats everyone just everyone he should be able to beat.

 

[kkck]

@kkck so we were given a hard limit of g4 of how long it lasts when it was introduced. I think g5 lasts as long as it needs to plot wise so, so yes it lasts long enough to beat kaido and long enough to beat kizaru. Even though they might be vastly different times. Which can be explained due to luffy inheriting the will of the pirate king rhe will to conquer all those on the sea. Now it doesn’t mean luffy beats everyone just everyone he should be able to beat.

Both can be Said to last as long as the plot needs. Luffy did quite well in that regard against cracker and katakuri, both of whom luffy had prolonged battles with. And yet g4 ran out quite fast against kaido...Still, there's a time limit. My initial guess was that luffy could handle the cost of awakening better than g4 though looking at recent developments it wouldn't be weird if it's more or less the same for luffy.

 

[Pirate Queen]

This man one-shot Useless Captain Midd with a hakiless bullet (some say)

 

[XXGenesis]

Kaido>Katakuri. Katakuri is better than Kaido in speed and CoO stats only. Kaido needs a lucky shot to land a hit on Katakuri if Snakeman blitzed Kaido that much. Or he needs to outlast Katakuri haki pool with his endurance, durability and his own haki pool too since Kaido's haki pool>Katakuri's haki pool so Katakuri would run out of haki first.

These post and takes are cringe to the max bro.

You are Wrong about the whole Kaido can’t touch Katakuri . Seems a bit obsessive about this topic that is entirely WHAT IF.

Katakuri‘s ACoO skill is powerful; Luffy still countered with his own ACoO; During the Wedding Katakuri saw the future but couldn’t react; Base Kaido hit Luffy who was using ACoO. Kaido’s blitz is too fast for a superior Luffy than WCI & other characters superior to WCI characters.

Kaido can Blitz him; Boro Blast; Dragon Twister…All Give Katakuri’s ACoO a problem.
Besides Katakuri is a YC1…Kaido’s a Yonkou. He stomps.

 

[BlackTiger]

These post and takes are cringe to the max bro.

You are Wrong about the whole Kaido can’t touch Katakuri . Seems a bit obsessive about this topic that is entirely WHAT IF.

Katakuri‘s ACoO skill is powerful; Luffy still countered with his own ACoO; During the Wedding Katakuri saw the future but couldn’t react; Base Kaido hit Luffy who was using ACoO. Kaido’s blitz is too fast for a superior Luffy than WCI & other characters superior to WCI characters.

Kaido can Blitz him; Boro Blast; Dragon Twister…All Give Katakuri’s ACoO a problem.
Besides Katakuri is a YC1…Kaido’s a Yonkou. He stomps.

If Kaido cannot touch Snakeman then Kaido cannot touch Katakuri. Katakuri operates at Snakeman speed. Which part of that that you didn't get?

Base Luffy with FS got dogwalked by Katakuri. Base Luffy with FS only hit Katakuri because Katakuri was busy forming his hand after using Burning Mochi. That's the only instance that base FS Luffy hit Katakuri. Outside of that base FS Luffy cannot touch Katakuri.

Base Kaido never hit FS Luffy. Luffy in act 1 never used Future Sight. This is evident in rooftop that Luffy was pissed with FS he still got hit by Thunder Bagua which can only mean that he expected with FS he can dodge Thunder Bagua because in act 1 he didn't use FS.

Base Luffy with FS can dodge Thunder Bagua. Katakuri is much faster than base Luffy+he can shapeshift his body to make attacks pass through his body. Thunder Bagua won't land on Katakuri.

Thunder Bagua is also slower than Buzzcut Mochi an attack that matched the speed of King Cobra, Snakeman's fastest attack.

How would Katakuri prevent Luffy from coming out of Wedding Cake? Luffy was in the cake long before Katakuri arrived at tea party. How was he supposed to prevent something that already happened long before he arrived?

Kaido cannot blitz Snakeman so no need to dream that he can blitz Katakuri.

Dragon Twister is not island size. It can be dodged Zoro even dodged tornado from Kaido. It won't hit Katakuri. It won't give him any problem.

Kaido needs to prove he can blitz Snakeman first.

Irrelevant if Kaido is a yonko while Katakuri is YC1. We can't just ignore how Kaido got blitzed by Snakeman that operates at Katakuri's speed. So Kaido can stomp Mihawk too since he's a YC1 in Cross Guild. Or Kaido can stomp Prime Rayleigh a YC1 in Roger Pirates? What kind of argument is that?

 

[catagon87]

If Kaido cannot touch Snakeman then Kaido cannot touch Katakuri. Katakuri operates at Snakeman speed. Which part of that that you didn't get?

Base Luffy with FS got dogwalked by Katakuri. Base Luffy with FS only hit Katakuri because Katakuri was busy forming his hand after using Burning Mochi. That's the only instance that base FS Luffy hit Katakuri. Outside of that base FS Luffy cannot touch Katakuri.

Base Kaido never hit FS Luffy. Luffy in act 1 never used Future Sight. This is evident in rooftop that Luffy was pissed with FS he still got hit by Thunder Bagua which can only mean that he expected with FS he can dodge Thunder Bagua because in act 1 he didn't use FS.

How would Katakuri prevent Luffy from coming out of Wedding Cake? Luffy was in the cake long before Katakuri arrived at tea party. How was he supposed to prevent something that already happened long before he arrived?

Kaido cannot blitz Snakeman so no need to dream that he can blitz Katakuri.

Dragon Twister is not island size. It can be dodged Zoro even dodged tornado from Kaido. It won't hit Katakuri. It won't give him any problem.

Kaido needs to prove he can blitz Snakeman first.

Irrelevant if Kaido is a yonko while Katakuri is YC1. We can't just ignore how Kaido got blitzed by Snakeman that operates at Katakuri's speed. So Kaido can stomp Mihawk too since he's a YC1 in Cross Guild. Or Kaido can stomp Prime Rayleigh a YC1 in Roger Pirates? What kind of argument is that?

Kaido has ACOO/Future sight. You seem to be forgetting a lot of parts of the extremely long fight Kaido went through. He did “blitz snakeman.”

 

[BlackTiger]

Kaido has ACOO/Future sight. You seem to be forgetting a lot of parts of the extremely long fight Kaido went through. He did “blitz snakeman.”

No he didn't.

Luffy stretched his arm by the time Kaido dodged Snakeman with his FS by transforming into dragon.

Then Luffy pulled his arm back continued with him stretching his arm again.

Then Dragon Kaido bit Luffy. So Dragon Kaido bit Luffy in the interval that Luffy pulled his arm then stretched his arm again. This is no different than what Katakuri did to Snakeman.

If Kaido blitzed Snakeman, Katakuri also blitzed Snakeman but that's not the case Katakuri operates at Snakeman speed.

In order for Kaido to blitz Snakeman, Snakeman and Kaido had to attack at the same time with Kaido attack hit Snakeman first. That's not what happened in the manga. Dragon Kaido stretched to Snakeman by the time Snakeman pulled his arm and stretched his arm back. Snakeman also pulled his arm back first because Snakeman just attacked Kaido (which Kaido dodged with FS by shapeshifitng into his dragon form) so Snakeman was not in attack mode when Dragon Kaido went toward Snakeman to bite it. Snakeman was in the middle of pulling his arm back (after Snakeman just stretched his arm to attack Kaido) then pulled his arm again. In that moment Dragon Kaido rushed toward Snakeman to bite Snakeman.

Kaido can only use FS in drunken mode because after he bit Snakeman, he got hit by Over Kong Gun who is much slower than Snakeman. If he can still use FS, he should be able to dodge Over Kong Gun a much slower attack than Snakeman. It's useless against Katakuri who can use FS 24/7.

 

[catagon87]

No he didn't.

Luffy stretched his arm by the time Kaido dodged Snakeman with his FS by transforming into dragon.

Then Luffy pulled his arm back continued with him stretching his arm again.

Then Dragon Kaido bit Luffy. So Dragon Kaido bit Luffy in the interval that Luffy pulled his arm then stretched his arm again. This is no different than what Katakuri did to Snakeman.

If Kaido blitzed Snakeman, Katakuri also blitzed Snakeman but that's not the case Katakuri operates at Snakeman speed.

In order for Kaido to blitz Snakeman, Snakeman and Kaido had to attack at the same time with Kaido attack hit Snakeman first. That's not what happened in the manga. Dragon Kaido stretched to Snakeman by the time Snakeman pulled his arm and stretched his arm back. Snakeman also pulled his arm back first because Snakeman just attacked Kaido (which Kaido dodged with FS by shapeshifitng into his dragon form) so Snakeman was not in attack mode when Dragon Kaido went toward Snakeman to bite it. Snakeman was in the middle of pulling his arm back (after Snakeman just stretched his arm to attack Kaido) then pulled his arm again. In that moment Dragon Kaido rushed toward Snakeman to bite Snakeman.

Kaido can only use FS in drunken mode because after he bit Snakeman, he got hit by Over Kong Gun who is much slower than Snakeman. If he can still use FS, he should be able to dodge Over Kong Gun a much slower attack than Snakeman. It's useless against Katakuri who can use FS 24/7.

Huh? So hits don’t count when they happen… while you’re pulling back a punch? That’s some serious grasping at straws in an attempt to be right if I ever heard it. I showed you a picture of snakeman Luffy getting bit by Kaido after you say it’s never happened, and you say it doesn’t count due to a technicality followed by multiple paragraphs I didn't read so won’t comment on.

 

[BlackTiger]

Huh? So hits don’t count when they happen… while you’re pulling back a punch? That’s some serious grasping at straws in an attempt to be right if I ever heard it. I showed you a picture of snakeman Luffy getting bit by Kaido after you say it’s never happened, and you say it doesn’t count due to a technicality followed by multiple paragraphs I didn't read so won’t comment on.

So did Katakuri blitz Snakeman or not?

This is Snakeman Luffy stretched his arm then kaido dodged

This is Katakuri also dodged Snakeman after Snakeman stretched his arm

Back to Snakeman vs Kaido. Snakeman pulled his arm back then stretched his arm again by the time Dragon Kaido rushed toward Snakeman. This is evident Snakeman pulled his arm back because the spark around Luffy's shoulder indicates Luffy stretched his arm which is only possible if he already pulled his arm back from previous page when Kaido turned into dragon to dodge Snakeman.

Go back to Snakeman vs katakuri. Unlike against Kaido. Snakeman didn't have the time to pull his arm back. Katakuri hit Snakeman before Snakeman could pull his arm back.

Katakuri looked much faster than FS Kaido amped with Snakeman pattern which boosts his speed. If Kaido blitzed Snakeman then Katakuri blitzed Snakeman which is not the case.

 

[XXGenesis]

I can’t be bothered with the burden of proving my claims when the argument is just so one dimensional false. Kaido is a Brawler. Kaido doesn’t need to dodge. Kaido is fast enough to blitz FS and even Blitz SnakeMan while in his Dragon Form….

So much has happened in the manga to say Katakuri can’t be hit by Kaido shows lack of comprehension or just blatant character bias…To be so bias between these two characters is honestly absurd.

I’ve come an across a trend on YouTube with OnePiece battles…IT ISN’T CLOSE….LMFAO

The battles that are close, they say aren’t close, SMFH. The battles that aren’t close somehow are close. The community is nuts lol

 

[BlackTiger]

I can’t be bothered with the burden of proving my claims when the argument is just so one dimensional false. Kaido is a Brawler. Kaido doesn’t need to dodge. Kaido is fast enough to blitz FS and even Blitz SnakeMan while in his Dragon Form….

Katakuri is much faster than FS Kaido amped with Snakeman speed look at post below.

So did Katakuri blitz Snakeman or not?

This is Snakeman Luffy stretched his arm then kaido dodged

This is Katakuri also dodged Snakeman after Snakeman stretched his arm

Back to Snakeman vs Kaido. Snakeman pulled his arm back then stretched his arm again by the time Dragon Kaido rushed toward Snakeman. This is evident Snakeman pulled his arm back because the spark around Luffy's shoulder indicates Luffy stretched his arm which is only possible if he already pulled his arm back from previous page when Kaido turned into dragon to dodge Snakeman.

Go back to Snakeman vs katakuri. Unlike against Kaido. Snakeman didn't have the time to pull his arm back. Katakuri hit Snakeman before Snakeman could pull his arm back.

Katakuri looked much faster than FS Kaido amped with Snakeman pattern which boosts his speed. If Kaido blitzed Snakeman then Katakuri blitzed Snakeman which is not the case.

If Kaido blitzed Snakeman then katakuri also blitzed Snakeman.

Kaido tried to dodge as best as he can the moment he dodged Red Hawk chapter 1009. If after that chapter Kaido cannot dodge, that means the attacks were too fast for him.

So much has happened in the manga to say Katakuri can’t be hit by Kaido shows lack of comprehension or just blatant character bias…To be so bias between these two characters is honestly absurd.

If he cannot hit Snakeman then he cannot hit Katakuri. I also already showed how Katakuri is much faster than FS Snakeman amped Kaido.

I’ve come an across a trend on YouTube with OnePiece battles…IT ISN’T CLOSE….LMFAO
The battles that are close, they say aren’t close, SMFH. The battles that aren’t close somehow are close. The community is nuts lol

Maybe if FS Kaido amped with Snakeman is faster than Katakuri but it's not what happened. I will give FS Kaido the benefits of the doubt he can hit Katakuri. Kaido without FS cannot hit Katakuri.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 3, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 3, 2023 ---

while in his Dragon Form….

Dragon form used Snakeman pattern which boosted Kaido's speed. So Kaido also got faster because in his dragon form he copied Snakeman pattern. Dragon form with only FS (did not copy Snakeman pattern) won't even hit Snakeman and gets blitzed by Snakeman.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

I can’t be bothered with the burden of proving my claims when the argument is just so one dimensional false. Kaido is a Brawler. Kaido doesn’t need to dodge. Kaido is fast enough to blitz FS and even Blitz SnakeMan while in his Dragon Form….

So much has happened in the manga to say Katakuri can’t be hit by Kaido shows lack of comprehension or just blatant character bias…To be so bias between these two characters is honestly absurd.

I’ve come an across a trend on YouTube with OnePiece battles…IT ISN’T CLOSE….LMFAO

The battles that are close, they say aren’t close, SMFH. The battles that aren’t close somehow are close. The community is nuts lol

Especially with Katakurifans. Its hopeless.

 

[BlackTiger]

Especially with Katakurifans. Its hopeless.

Not my fault Oda made Snakeman so broken that it embarrassed Kaido and forced Kizaru to his max speed. Not my fault Katakuri fought Snakeman to a draw so Snakeman feats against top tiers can be transferred to Katakuri.

There's still not a single character that can beat Snakeman.

Let's look at Marco. How can you hype him after Wano? He got trashed by King. If someone can keep up with King, that means he can trash Marco too. If someone beats King, he can trash Marco even worse.

So it's easier to wank a character that had a draw with Snakeman who has never been beaten by any top tiers.

Katakuri>>>Zoro who doesn't have FS and much slower than Snakeman.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 3, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 3, 2023 ---

I’ve come an across a trend on YouTube with OnePiece battles…IT ISN’T CLOSE….LMFAO

Believing Kaido cannot hit Katakuri based on Kaido vs Snakeman is more reasonable than giving Cracker's portrayal to Jozu and Queen because Cracker= or >Doflamingo that means Jozu and Queen are also > or = Doflamingo too (which is based on nothing) despite how Doflamingo already humiliated Jozu and Queen needed more than 5 chapters to beat nerfed Sanji. Doflamingo only needed 3 to 4 chapters to beat fresh Sanji.

While the same community that gives Cracker's feat to Jozu and Queen (based on nothing), they don't give Marco's feat stalling an admiral to other YC1 (so they can put Marco above other YC1) despite Dressrosa Luffy who was fodder to Cracker also stalled an admiral.

That's called hypocrisy.

Till this day there are some people who still think Marco>King even though King already trashed him in the manga. How very delusional can you be to still believe something like that.

 

[Rein Avara]

Not sure why you guys bother arguing with people who refuse to see reason lol.

 

[BlackTiger]

Not sure why you guys bother arguing with people who refuse to see reason lol.

I didn't see any of those reasons in the manga though.

 

[catagon87]

I didn't see any of those reasons in the manga though.

Whoooooosh.

 

[BlackTiger]

Whoooooosh.

Feel free to show me in the manga where Kaido blitzed Snakeman. Biting Snakeman when Snakeman was in the middle of pulling back his hands then stretching his hands again is not what I call a blitz. Katakuri hit Snakeman before Snakeman can pull his arm his feat is much more impressive. If what Kaido did was a blitz then what Katakuri did was a blitz as well which is not the case.

 

[XXGenesis]

Not sure why you guys bother arguing with people who refuse to see reason lol.

Made a reasonable reply on another post, figured I tackle him on this. My mistake.

@BlackTiger
You have a lot I want to reply to and a lot I don’t. Because I’m not getting how you can gauge the speed of an illustartion without context or narrative to compare them.

Snakeman vs Kaido…..Snakeman’s Hydra is basicslly Gum Gum battling Gun via Snakeman mode; Luffy never used this attack against Katakuri; Katakuri was dodging regular Snakeman Punches…..Kaido doesn’t need FS as a Brawler but when he did he got out of the assault & Blitz’d Snakeman directly he ate him…

On top of Luffy the following arc who just lost to Kaido, learned ACoA and had weeks to train. Used FS & still got Blitz by base Kaido….G5 Luffy was blitz’d by Kaido….A stronger Luffy than in WCI…A Luffy that’s made more progress in reaching the top of the pirate world. Was still blitz…