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xi0

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And while it'd never happen, if we managed to find a leftist that could get enough votes to win the presidency, I'd vote for them too. Blue is blue.
Policies like BNMW are the reason why that will never happen, mind you. Every single Democrat that is elected moves to the Right in attempt to garner votes, they never move to the Left. Ever. In a sense, the sentiments that exist from BNMW are what led to Trump in the first place and why we'll never be able to demand better from Democrats.

I don't see any way to push these politicians Left by providing them unconditional support. It's death by a thousand cuts while the status quo corporatist party lets its voting base slowly drown.
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MAGA already thinks Democrats are psychopathic adrenochrome-monger communists, so the least leadership could do is give them an actual reason to complain. But no, the smart play is doing nothing bold and telling your voters to "vote harder". Typical.
 

kkck

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I don't think democrats have enough guns to take that stance with republicans who think democrats snort baby blood.
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I don't see how democrats expect to win this election tbh. I can't imagine swing voters in the US voting for a potato. EVen if democrats outnumber republicans nowadays the state biden is in I would argue makes getting the number of electoral college votes required even harder than it already was. Biden needs to go...
 

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Policies like BNMW are the reason why that will never happen, mind you. Every single Democrat that is elected moves to the Right in attempt to garner votes, they never move to the Left. Ever. In a sense, the sentiments that exist from BNMW are what led to Trump in the first place and why we'll never be able to demand better from Democrats.

I don't see any way to push these politicians Left by providing them unconditional support. It's death by a thousand cuts while the status quo corporatist party lets its voting base slowly drown.
Well yeah, I don't want a leftist president anymore. I was just saying I would vote for one if I had to pick between a leftist and a Republican.

I don't see how democrats expect to win this election tbh. I can't imagine swing voters in the US voting for a potato. EVen if democrats outnumber republicans nowadays the state biden is in I would argue makes getting the number of electoral college votes required even harder than it already was. Biden needs to go...
What percentage of Americans that are willing to vote for Joe Biden, or previously were enthusiastic about voting Biden, are likely to vote for Newsom? Or someone further left? What percentage of swing voters that were enthusiastic about Biden would vote for Newsom? Or someone further left?
 

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What percentage of Americans that are willing to vote for Joe Biden, or previously were enthusiastic about voting Biden, are likely to vote for Newsom? Or someone further left? What percentage of swing voters that were enthusiastic about Biden would vote for Newsom? Or someone further left?
What percentage of US folk were even enthusiastic to vote for biden to begin with? The 200 people in the DNC? Biden's most defining feature is him not being trump. No one knows what biden or hillary before him stood for campaign wise. And biden is months away from not being able to stand up without help. I don't know who can replace biden but I can't imagine swing voters picking a confused old man over a lucid trump. Note that my argument isn't to vote for trump but rather that biden is a losing choice.
 

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What percentage of US folk were even enthusiastic to vote for biden to begin with? The 200 people in the DNC? Biden's most defining feature is him not being trump. No one knows what biden or hillary before him stood for campaign wise. And biden is months away from not being able to stand up without help. I don't know who can replace biden but I can't imagine swing voters picking a confused old man over a lucid trump. Note that my argument isn't to vote for trump but rather that biden is a losing choice.
Then I guess the question becomes which losing choice is a better choice? A sundowning Biden who can be guided with aids, or someone that doesn't even exist?
 

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Then I guess the question becomes which losing choice is a better choice? A sundowning Biden who can be guided with aids, or someone that doesn't even exist?
Guided? Biden is incapable of campaigning. Seeing his addresses to the country the past few months has already been painful enough, do you think he can travel the country and just do a regular campaign? Setting the old man's well being aside, he just can't do it. Biden is in no condition to make a case to swing voters that he is a better choice or that his policies are good or the lesser evil or whatever. Can you imagine biden down a town hall? Being subjected to hours of biden's uninterrupted mumbling would be a worse war crime than anything published in wikileaks. Going forward literally anything biden does will only hurt his campaign. Debate biden isn't an accident or one off, unless something incredible happens you gotta assume that that is the absolute best showing he could muster. The debate is not rock bottom, it's literally downhill from there.
 

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The question wasn't rhetorical lol. I'm genuinely asking who it should be that could win. Potentially, you could think of someone that isn't too far left, who could gin up the country in about 4 months, doesn't have some scandal following them, and could pool votes from all potential demographics to get enough to beat Trump.

Is there anyone, anyone at all you can think of that would do better at it than Sundowner Joe? Because it sounds like you can't, but still think that this ethereal person should get the vote over Biden.

I'm not convinced.
 

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Ah, definitely not. I don't follow enough US local politics to even begin to have a clue and I dislike harris. On the other hand the bar right now is... being able to talk and walk. It's a super low bar. And you know, do a campaign, do townhalls, do a debate, meet donors, rallies... Biden can't do any of that. I do not follow local US politics but I do follow elections bordering on obsessively... At least my read on this is that biden is not getting those swing votes. Not only his popularity has been in the low 40s or even high 30s for most his presidency (as in, lower than trumps) but to that you also throw in biden parading through the country his old age during the campaign. Or worse, not even campaigning. Now, I admit my read on the situation could be wrong but I just don't see how this deeply unpopular bumbling barely mobile old man can win an election simply because he isn't trump. I'd bet on even hillary having better chances and I still wouldn't put my money on her.
 

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What percentage of US folk were even enthusiastic to vote for biden to begin with? The 200 people in the DNC? Biden's most defining feature is him not being trump. No one knows what biden or hillary before him stood for campaign wise. And biden is months away from not being able to stand up without help. I don't know who can replace biden but I can't imagine swing voters picking a confused old man over a lucid trump. Note that my argument isn't to vote for trump but rather that biden is a losing choice.
Clinton supporters and liberals were happy to vote for Biden, especially when they had "leftists" like Warren and Sanders remaining. I thought people knew what Biden claimed to stand for, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten the amount of votes that he did. He claimed to protect abortion, cancel student loans, stricter and better covid measures, and other stuff that he also lied on.

I think unless Trump keeps being more and more unhinged, swing voters are less likely to vote for Biden after seeing his performances and how his term turned out to be. I can't say Biden is the worst president, but he's definitely a weird one because he's shot himself in the foot not fighting harder to do what he said he would do, versus Trump actually upholding his promises.
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Kinda wild that if RBG stepped down when she should have, Trump might not have gotten immunity for crimes.
 

xi0

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Well yeah, I don't want a leftist president anymore. I was just saying I would vote for one if I had to pick between a leftist and a Republican.
Anymore? Sounds like you're paying too much attention to reactionary internet celebs. Either that or you're being bullied into your "How I left the Left" phase.

What would the downside be? Campaign ideas that might actually be pushed in office? Maybe that's naivete on my part but... I mean. What's the negative? Too much emphasis on social programs? Actually using the might of the government to protect individual rights instead of expecting neofascists to not be neofascists? Not actively funding despots and genocide? Idk, seems worth trying at least once.

Kinda wild that if RBG stepped down when she should have, Trump might not have gotten immunity for crimes.
Nah man, she had to "girlboss" and continue being a "pioneer". How dare you!
 

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Anymore? Sounds like you're paying too much attention to reactionary internet celebs. Either that or you're being bullied into your "How I left the Left" phase.

What would the downside be? Campaign ideas that might actually be pushed in office? Maybe that's naivete on my part but... I mean. What's the negative? Too much emphasis on social programs? Actually using the might of the government to protect individual rights instead of expecting neofascists to not be neofascists? Not actively funding despots and genocide? Idk, seems worth trying at least once.



Nah man, she had to "girlboss" and continue being a "pioneer". How dare you!
I feel like most libs who hate the left usually have no good reason to, they just can't handle being called out or not being agreed with. At least, that's what I've observed with a lot of them. Dems get criticized, and a lot of the voters get pissed and say they were turned away from the left because the left hurt their feelings.



sorry, she's totally girlboss and girlgatekeeper!
 

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Anymore? Sounds like you're paying too much attention to reactionary internet celebs. Either that or you're being bullied into your "How I left the Left" phase.
At the bold? I dunno if you mean "You're watching too much Destiny" or "Don't hold all leftists responsible for the crazies you're seeing on youtube politics streams". And if by bullied you mean "I've been fighting terrorist apologia and veiled anti semitism from leftists for over half a year"? Then yeah. Though I'll never leave the left. I'll just bully and ostracize the worse parts of it. Gatekeeping is a good thing.

What would the downside be? Campaign ideas that might actually be pushed in office? Maybe that's naivete on my part but... I mean. What's the negative? Too much emphasis on social programs? Actually using the might of the government to protect individual rights instead of expecting neofascists to not be neofascists? Not actively funding despots and genocide? Idk, seems worth trying at least once.
While these aren't guaranteed to happen, the behaviors and desires of the leftists I've been in contact with leads me to believe these are things that they would push for via a Leftist president: Campaign ideas that will NEVER be passed in office, like a strong increase in gun control, UBI or 20 dollar or more minimum wage. A stark increase in anti-semitism disguised as anti-Zionism. A MAGA style radical authoritarian shift in favor of deplatforming and silencing of dissenting ideas in the media. A crippling inability to criticize Islam. Potentially enthusiastic employment of DIY HRT for trans youths who want to experiment without the help of trained medical professionals or the input of their parents (the Keffals scandal in case you forgot). Not illegal, but fucking shitty and is grooming-adjacent, the thing that conservatives accuse anyone that's pro LGBTQ of being anyway.

And while you could say I'm just picking out the most fringe of policy desires amongst the left that you would find in the furthest corners of the internet, I wanna remind you that Progressive Victory is still a thing... and Vaush still works for them. You know, the guy who got caught with his Lolicon horse bestiality porn folder open on stream? And Keffals worked for them, the Catboy Ranch DIY HRT child groomer that scammed her chat out of like 100k dollars and claimed it was for help with a court case, but was using it to feed her coke addiction? And Nominal Naomi, the transwoman who went viral for breast feeding her kid on TikTok (which isn't technically bad, its just optically bad for normies to see if they dont want swing voters and moderates to think they're fucking insane). Or Doe, the deergender girl who goes by It/Its pronouns (not officially working for them, but helping Vaush with the canvassing)?

Progressives only recently got away form the Ze/Zer stuff. My point with all of that was to show that the crazies aren't just online anymore. They're mobilizing. They're canvassing. They're gaining attention.

To be clear, my ideal America is one similar to the Nordic countries which is further left of center. All of that can be accomplished without going full-on radical leftist. IMO.
 

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Now biden claims he was jet lagged during the debate... Does it even matter? The image people have of him now is nearly impossible to fix.
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I got around to watching John Oliver's segment on project 2025 which republicans have going on. The bit that hits hardest for me is not even the ideological mumbo jumbo but rather the plant to make most government jobs pretty much political so that the president can wave them away and immediately replace them with flunkies who don't even need to have competence. This is pretty much the blueprint of a shithole country. It's not quite what 21th century socialist in SA have done but damn it looks familiar (their plan is to both fill the government with useless flunkies AND expand government to infinity and beyond). If project 2025 succeeds then fixing the US government won't happen in our lifetimes...
 

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Even Biden's own party members want to replace him, and if Biden and Dems care about USA and its citizens, then he will step down. Ignoring his health, I can't see Biden recovering from actively participating in at least one genocide, lying about it, and allowing republicans and Trump to get their way. Oh and breaking tons of promises and not even fighting to uphold them until realizing he's in danger.

Seeing liberals continue to support Biden, and the way they're responding to the genocides is eye-opening though. Many of them proved they're actually racist and no better than Trump's cult. I wish we had legit left wing politicians, not liberals disguised as the left.
 

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Now biden claims he was jet lagged during the debate... Does it even matter? The image people have of him now is nearly impossible to fix.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I got around to watching John Oliver's segment on project 2025 which republicans have going on. The bit that hits hardest for me is not even the ideological mumbo jumbo but rather the plant to make most government jobs pretty much political so that the president can wave them away and immediately replace them with flunkies who don't even need to have competence. This is pretty much the blueprint of a shithole country. It's not quite what 21th century socialist in SA have done but damn it looks familiar (their plan is to both fill the government with useless flunkies AND expand government to infinity and beyond). If project 2025 succeeds then fixing the US government won't happen in our lifetimes...
Then you understand why I'm so risk-averse and scared shitless of doing anything short of towing the party line. Take away Biden's age adled brain and he's the perfect choice electability-wise. Add the brain gaffes and that doesn't somehow make non-Biden candidates more likely to win, it just makes Biden more likely to lose.

At least until I see overwhelming support for this other magical non-existent candidate. And even then when I say overwhelming, I mean the entirety of the Democratic party backing this guy up.
 

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Then you understand why I'm so risk-averse and scared shitless of doing anything short of towing the party line. Take away Biden's age adled brain and he's the perfect choice electability-wise. Add the brain gaffes and that doesn't somehow make non-Biden candidates more likely to win, it just makes Biden more likely to lose.

At least until I see overwhelming support for this other magical non-existent candidate. And even then when I say overwhelming, I mean the entirety of the Democratic party backing this guy up.
I mean, i don't think we are too far apart here. My issue isn't with the democratic party in this case, to me it just looks like if biden runs he will lose because people who don't usually vote on party lines will not vote for a confused old man. I suppose I don't have that much to add on this... It is a shame that there's no real hope of the government working more effectively in the near future. I'm going to take some time to read the project 2025 over the past few weeks, I started it but its a 1000 page document... Might as well if republicans are apparently this organized for a change.
 

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Why not read the summation of Project 2025? I wouldn't be surprised if that alone convinced some people to vote for Biden, given how fucked up it is.

But also, Biden will likely lose not because he's a confused old man, but because of his actual term, and some other things that they think he's responsible for, like recession (I don't think we're in one if companies are making record profits).

I mean, what's inspiring people to vote for someone who sat by and let multiple states ban abortion and dismantle protection for LGBT+ group?


And as I said, Biden and his cult are underestimating Trump and his cult.
 

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I mean, if people don't vote for biden for the stuff you mention then they really deserve the trump presidency tbh. Most of that stuff trump would dial up to 11 on day one.
 

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Perhaps, but it's also why Biden should have at least tried to fight harder instead of letting republicans have their way. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people think another Biden term would be him allowing even more right wing garbage to get passed. And again, a bare minimum he had to do was at least give the impression that he was fighting hard to protect Americans' rights and to help them, rather than say "oops we don't have money" and then give billions to other countries.
 

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TBH I don't buy that biden being more effective before would help him now when his main issue is being perceived as literally unable to do the job. As far as anyone that aligns with the democratic party goes there's pretty much no issue where trump is preferable to biden anyways. The issue here is swing voters and the electoral college.
 
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