Discussion About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

tupadre97

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^ Yes but Meruem is not comparable to the others. And he could use it only to read minds and to move fast while activating his En. Being able to use light attacks would be really OP.
He could probably do that too without even trying. He can already create photons instantly without even training. All he has to do is add nen, focus the photons and emit it like a laser. Once you're on that level or beyond you can probably do just about anything with nen without even trying.
 
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Master OZ

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Having looked at the thread title, I was wondering what would people be discussing and in the opening post I see completely wrong descriptions of Nen. So I decided to give you the correct definitions (at least I hope so) and point the faults of the Nen system to spur some discussion.

Ten is actually two abilities; opening of all nodes and retaining of the leaking aura near the body. The effect (but not ability) of this is the basic protection, slowing of aging etc.
Zetsu is the closure of all the nodes to stop the leaking of aura outside. The effect is that you don´t leave traces of your aura outside your body, recuperation is faster etc.
Ren is the ability to draw out more aura than one usually does by Ten. The effect is defense and offense capability higher than Ten.
Hatsu is the ability to freely control the aura.
En is the application of Ten on Ren. First you open the nodes with Ten, then Ren is used to bring out more aura than normal and Ten is used again to control it´s shape. It´s effect is the detection of all things inside it.
In is the application of Zetsu to make aura hardly visible at all.
Gyou is the ability to gather or focus your aura at a certain area, spot or spots. The known effect on eyes is that it enables the user to see through In.
Shuu is the application of Ten (retaining of your aura) and you can extend your Ten to other objects. The effect is that object benefits from the effects of Ten.
Kou is the application of Ten, Ren, Zetsu, Hatsu, Gyou at once. With Ten you open the nodes, then with Ren you bring up even more aura than usual, then with Gyou you focus it in desired place, then with Zetsu you close the nodes and lastly with the Enhancer´s Hatsu you reinforce that to desired level. The effect of this particular Kou is greater destructive capability and greater defensive capability. The shortcoming is the vulnerability in the places where this Kou is not used.
Ken is the application of Ren on Ten. First you open your nodes with Ten, then retain it with Ten and lastly make it much denser with Ren. The effect is much better Ten effect but the durability is much shorter.
Ryuu is the ability to shift and manipulate your aura layer and flow through Ken, Gyou, Ren, Ten.

And now for the faults
Ten When it is awakened, Togashi neglected to mention what else was awakened. Suddenly Killua and Gon can see aura (they couldn´t do that before) so there must have been some other perception organ awakened. Why can they see aura now? It can´t be just because their pores are opened. They could feel the aura before awakening (temperature, pressure), but no optical or auditory phenomena? The leap of logic is too big here.

Hatsu was never explained how it works and its definition by Wing overlaps with so many things it hurts. When Gon and Killua undergo the Water Divination test for the first time, they just use Ren, therefore amplifying the latent quality of their aura. When they train to pronounce the effects of this, they are left alone to figure this out on their own. It has been said many times that Enhancer´s Ten is incredible (from the battle´s POV), so how about Conjurer´s Ten (does he have some material flying around him?), Emitter´s Ten, Manipulator´s Ten... Next, it was never explained how they train for other types than their own (Killua doing the Enhancer training was just using Kou with stone, Gon was doing Ten and Gyou, later Ten, Gyou, Ren), how they can change between the natures of their aura. Basically how they "do" Hatsu is still left unsaid.

En I don´t understand how is the information transmitted to the brain. When it comes to skin there are receptors that give information to neural pathways that pass the information to the brain so that one can know and react to the impulse. How it works in Nen? If someone breaks into your En how will you know that? Nobunaga says that you can feel it with your skin, but how do you deliver that information to the skin? When Pitou detects Kite with her En, that information travels several hundred meters in an instant (why that fast?), but how? Was her En filled with Nen pathways that deliver the info to her? I don´t know.

In In my opinion the biggest bull in this "system". What kind of logic was used here? Zetsu is closing one´s nodes to stop leaking aura outside the body and application of that is make aura hard to see. This makes no logical sense. When Togashi made the leap from the effects are to hide your aura inside your body to you can make your aura hard to see, he made a big mistake. What he should have done is to make In an application of Hatsu, which would make more sense if we knew how Hatsu works.

Gyou I don´t have problem with the ability itself, but its effect on eyes. If you make Gyou in your ears, do you hear aura? If in nose, smell the aura? If in tongue, can you taste the aura? The main problem here is the fact that the Gyou effect on eyes makes sense if the aura is also infused with Hatsu effect. Enhancer Hatsu could enhance the sight to see In, but what about Conjurer Hatsu /eye tumor?, materialize some things in eyes that would destroy the eyes?/, Emitter Hatsu, Manipulator Hatsu? Next thing is the fact that Zushi and Gon couldn´t see every thread with Gyou enabled, why? Is it because they couldn´t amass enough aura in the eyes or the aura wasn´t of required quality? What determines the said quality of Gyou? Since Gon and Killua are roughly at the same level at that moment, Gon should have upper hand on the Gyou since his latent Enhancer quality should improve his sight much better that Killua´s Transmuter. Wing´s comments that later you can fight with Gyou enabled suggest that there is an aura requirement for Gyou to work, probably meaning you must gather at least 200 aura (I am just guessing) in your eyes for Gyou to work properly (which doesn´t make sense and can´t be all since Gon could not see all the threads) and then when you can actualize more aura you can have eye Gyou activated plus En or Ken.

That´s not all but damn I am tired.
 
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Uriel

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You're totally over-thinking it, hence your issues with the op and the system itself.

Ten is NOT two techniques. It's one. It's maintaining the aura around you instead of the regular release of it. Remember: Aura is life, it's energy. When Wing opened their pores it was not to release Aura, but to release it more drastically in order to make the guys aware of it more vividly.
As any death situation. Or some illumination. It's only to be aware of it.

Hatsu is action, it not just the manipulation: It's HOW it's manipulated.
 

Master OZ

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You're totally over-thinking it, hence your issues with the op and the system itself.

Ten is NOT two techniques. It's one. It's maintaining the aura around you instead of the regular release of it. Remember: Aura is life, it's energy. When Wing opened their pores it was not to release Aura, but to release it more drastically in order to make the guys aware of it more vividly.
As any death situation. Or some illumination. It's only to be aware of it.

Hatsu is action, it not just the manipulation: It's HOW it's manipulated.
Ten is two techniques. Wing forcefully opens all of their pores, since they are normally closed, to make their aura come out more easily, therefore making retaining Ten more easy to attain. The pores manipulation is a part of Ten because later on they will learn Zetsu, which is closing off the said pores to not make the aura flow outside the body. The pores manipulation is crucial to the whole Nen concept. You can´t perform Ten if you can´t open your pores. If you can´t perform Ten, then you can´t perform Ren, Gyou, Shuu, Kou etc. You can´t perform Zetsu if you can´t close your pores.

Ad Hatsu; but the "HOW" is not explained. You don´t know how Enhancer does his enhancing, how Transmuter does his transmuting how Manipulator does his manipulation. What are the particles that constitute the Aura? When I heard the explanation for how supposedly Conjurers materialize their items of choice, I thought he was joking."Materialization is a physical process, where a near infinite amount (now this is golden) of aura is gathered together, it stabilizes and becomes an object." There is nothing said about creating atoms and molecules of materials to create these objects or how one creates the framework and binding structures to give it a form of a chain. I would be more than glad to accept it is magic, but the master says this very line "Materialization is not a convenient magic.", all of this actually takes me out of immersion. For example, Naruto´s chakra system relies heavily on reader to make these assumptions about it, so I just suspend my belief, because it is more of a cop out for Kishimoto to do whatever he wants. Togashi on the other hand states there rules explicitly and wants us to follow them or so to say, be straight with us that he has a system he won´t misuse on reader´s watch (but he does).

The reason I may seem overthinking is the fact that Togashi is clearly trying to make a working system that he can apply for battle and other things, so he must be very cautious about it and I believe his efforts should be met with at least partial effort on discuters side.
 

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Having looked at the thread title, I was wondering what would people be discussing and in the opening post I see completely wrong descriptions of Nen. So I decided to give you the correct definitions (at least I hope so) and point the faults of the Nen system to spur some discussion.

Ten is actually two abilities; opening of all nodes and retaining of the leaking aura near the body. The effect (but not ability) of this is the basic protection, slowing of aging etc.
Zetsu is the closure of all the nodes to stop the leaking of aura outside. The effect is that you don´t leave traces of your aura outside your body, recuperation is faster etc.
Ren is the ability to draw out more aura than one usually does by Ten. The effect is defense and offense capability higher than Ten.
Hatsu is the ability to freely control the aura.
En is the application of Ten on Ren. First you open the nodes with Ten, then Ren is used to bring out more aura than normal and Ten is used again to control it´s shape. It´s effect is the detection of all things inside it.
In is the application of Zetsu to make aura hardly visible at all.
Gyou is the ability to gather or focus your aura at a certain area, spot or spots. The known effect on eyes is that it enables the user to see through In.
Shuu is the application of Ten (retaining of your aura) and you can extend your Ten to other objects. The effect is that object benefits from the effects of Ten.
Kou is the application of Ten, Ren, Zetsu, Hatsu, Gyou at once. With Ten you open the nodes, then with Ren you bring up even more aura than usual, then with Gyou you focus it in desired place, then with Zetsu you close the nodes and lastly with the Enhancer´s Hatsu you reinforce that to desired level. The effect of this particular Kou is greater destructive capability and greater defensive capability. The shortcoming is the vulnerability in the places where this Kou is not used.
Ken is the application of Ren on Ten. First you open your nodes with Ten, then retain it with Ten and lastly make it much denser with Ren. The effect is much better Ten effect but the durability is much shorter.
Ryuu is the ability to shift and manipulate your aura layer and flow through Ken, Gyou, Ren, Ten.

And now for the faults
Ten When it is awakened, Togashi neglected to mention what else was awakened. Suddenly Killua and Gon can see aura (they couldn´t do that before) so there must have been some other perception organ awakened. Why can they see aura now? It can´t be just because their pores are opened. They could feel the aura before awakening (temperature, pressure), but no optical or auditory phenomena? The leap of logic is too big here.

Hatsu was never explained how it works and its definition by Wing overlaps with so many things it hurts. When Gon and Killua undergo the Water Divination test for the first time, they just use Ren, therefore amplifying the latent quality of their aura. When they train to pronounce the effects of this, they are left alone to figure this out on their own. It has been said many times that Enhancer´s Ten is incredible (from the battle´s POV), so how about Conjurer´s Ten (does he have some material flying around him?), Emitter´s Ten, Manipulator´s Ten... Next, it was never explained how they train for other types than their own (Killua doing the Enhancer training was just using Kou with stone, Gon was doing Ten and Gyou, later Ten, Gyou, Ren), how they can change between the natures of their aura. Basically how they "do" Hatsu is still left unsaid.

En I don´t understand how is the information transmitted to the brain. When it comes to skin there are receptors that give information to neural pathways that pass the information to the brain so that one can know and react to the impulse. How it works in Nen? If someone breaks into your En how will you know that? Nobunaga says that you can feel it with your skin, but how do you deliver that information to the skin? When Pitou detects Kite with her En, that information travels several hundred meters in an instant (why that fast?), but how? Was her En filled with Nen pathways that deliver the info to her? I don´t know.

In In my opinion the biggest bull in this "system". What kind of logic was used here? Zetsu is closing one´s nodes to stop leaking aura outside the body and application of that is make aura hard to see. This makes no logical sense. When Togashi made the leap from the effects are to hide your aura inside your body to you can make your aura hard to see, he made a big mistake. What he should have done is to make In an application of Hatsu, which would make more sense if we knew how Hatsu works.

Gyou I don´t have problem with the ability itself, but its effect on eyes. If you make Gyou in your ears, do you hear aura? If in nose, smell the aura? If in tongue, can you taste the aura? The main problem here is the fact that the Gyou effect on eyes makes sense if the aura is also infused with Hatsu effect. Enhancer Hatsu could enhance the sight to see In, but what about Conjurer Hatsu /eye tumor?, materialize some things in eyes that would destroy the eyes?/, Emitter Hatsu, Manipulator Hatsu? Next thing is the fact that Zushi and Gon couldn´t see every thread with Gyou enabled, why? Is it because they couldn´t amass enough aura in the eyes or the aura wasn´t of required quality? What determines the said quality of Gyou? Since Gon and Killua are roughly at the same level at that moment, Gon should have upper hand on the Gyou since his latent Enhancer quality should improve his sight much better that Killua´s Transmuter. Wing´s comments that later you can fight with Gyou enabled suggest that there is an aura requirement for Gyou to work, probably meaning you must gather at least 200 aura (I am just guessing) in your eyes for Gyou to work properly (which doesn´t make sense and can´t be all since Gon could not see all the threads) and then when you can actualize more aura you can have eye Gyou activated plus En or Ken.

That´s not all but damn I am tired.
Carefully explained. Seems like you've put time and thought into it, I thank you for that. It was very educational. I've actually understood things I've found confusing before. But I still don't get the "In", it simply doesn't make any sense. In Zetsu one closes the aura nodes so that no aura leaks; in Ren, Ten and Hatsu you open them to release aura. But in "In", do you open and close them at the same time?:confused: Well, I guess Tagashi didn't think that through.

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 AM ----------

About Ten's faults, Gon and Killua were able to see their aura because, then, they had their eye-pores opened. About En's faults, I guess one can feel anything that brings disturbance in his/her flow of aura; the aura isn't a steam that just goes out of the living body, its like a living part of your body, you can sense things that come into touch with it. About Gyou's faults, "Gyou" and "In" are greatly linked, so until we fully understand "In", "Gyou" will always be a mystery. About Hatsu faults, I guess it depends on the nen-type. I mean everyone's Ten, Ren, Zetsu and Hatsu is the same although they might differ in power regardless to one's nen-type; but, I think the nen-type is just a system to differentiate nen-users' tendencies in making use of their aura - in other words, their "Hatsu".
 
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Master OZ

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About Ten's faults, Gon and Killua were able to see their aura because, then, they had their eye-pores opened. About En's faults, I guess one can feel anything that brings disturbance in his/her flow of aura; the aura isn't a steam that just goes out of the living body, its like a living part of your body, you can sense things that come into touch with it. About Gyou's faults, "Gyou" and "In" are greatly linked, so until we fully understand "In", "Gyou" will always be a mystery. About Hatsu faults, I guess it depends on the nen-type. I mean everyone's Ten, Ren, Zetsu and Hatsu is the same although they might differ in power regardless to one's nen-type; but, I think the nen-type is just a system to differentiate nen-users' tendencies in making use of their aura - in other words, their "Hatsu".
Nen nodes in skin are plausible, because we already have similar things there, but Nen pores in eyes? Even if I acknowledge that (which is frankly speaking hard, because then what about eye liquid), there is still problem with actual perception of the said aura. There still needs to be a receptory organ to perceive the information and pass that info to the brain. Let me rephrase the question; Killua´s and Gon´s senses were remarked as incredibly sharp to be able to perceive temperature and pressure of Wing´s Nen. If that is the case, can an ordinary human train his eyesight without awakening his Nen to actually see aura? Or even better why is it that Gon and Killua could feel the temperature of the aura and the pressure it exercised, but couldn´t see it (because then that would mean either the "normal" receptors are able to feel the aura, OR there is another set of aural receptors - like aura temperature receptors, aura pressure receptors, or aura pain receptors; that would make even bigger mess since why these aural receptors functioned without being awakened beforehand)?

En - I do not deny that they can feel, I just can´t see how that feel is relayed to the user. One can feel pain because receptors register pain, send that to neural pathways, which send that to brain. VERY SIMPLY PUT- If receptors are numb or pathways are not working - you won´t feel pain. There has to be something similar to that in En which wasn´t elaborated upon at all, which would help differentiate the quality of En with something more than distance or shape, like the speed of reception of info, the level of detail that is used to scan withing the En, or even better;more kinds of En per individual like a skimming sloppy En for fast overview and a slow scanning En for deep search. If one´s aurareceptors are numb or aural pathways are not functional - they can´t perceive with En. If this were true one could see how En is nerve wrecking or tiring (as Zeno put it). Even plainly looking at En - feeling everything in your En would make your brain explode with the amount of information your aura would send you. Looking back if this were true Pitou´s and King´s En are much better than people give them credit for. FEELING EVERYTHING ALMOST INSTANTLY IN SEVERAL HUNDRED METERS OF THEIR En is completely out of human reach

Ad Gyou - Gyou is focus of aura - that much is clear, but why Gyou´s effect on eyes is breaking In shall be mystery forever, I don´t see Togashi elaborating on these techniques ever again. Breaking In (if we take In as a legitimate technique) with En is actually fine. It would be similar to being blindfold but feeling the surroundings with hands, ears or nose and thus constructing a projection in our mind (this could lead to an interesting question - can one fool En? make your masking of much better quality than the detecting En - similar to plane stealth technologies).

Ten, Zetsu, Ren, Hatsu are the same in execution (if we overlook the placement of nodes), but not in effect; Gon´s Ren on water caused the water overflow, Killua´s Ren on water changed water´s taste. Gon´s (and generally Enhancer´s) Ten was remarked as considerably strong. Is there something as a neutral state of aura as far as latent Hatsu is concerned? By extension - can Gon (or anyone else) deHatsu his Ten - can he make it neutral as far as latent Hatsu goes? Because if he can´t , then in his aura there will always be an Enhancer quality. If he can´t do that, how can he attain another Hatsu quality? It would mean that even his Emission Paper would also be Enhancer attack.

I haven´t really delved into abilities themselves or basic aura overview and I have already killed any kind of discussion. That wasn´t good of me
 

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Master OZ, everything you said is true, I honestly agree with you. But let us face it, all of this Nen thing is fiction. I really wish if all of it was real, can you imagine how much damage a nen-user would do in real life :derp. The Nen theory was carefully designed and presented, but, keep in mind, Togashi , though a genius, isn't God.

This is what I understood about aura and how it works so far. Aura has a distinct system such as that of the nerves; when you use "En", its like you extend your body and can know exactly what comes to your range. When you use "Zetsu", closing the nodes, no one can see or feel you, you'll appear as a non-living object. If you imagine it as a part of your body, "Hatsu", "Ten" and "Ren" are also explainable.

"Gyou" and "In" remain a mystery. I mean does "In" encode the rays that get reflected from the aura, and does "Gyou" decode it so that it could be seen by the ordinary eye. :hmm
 
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Sea Hunter

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I think you are overlapping In with Zetsu. Zetsu stops the aura from getting out of your body while In doesn't, with In you only make your aura which is outside your body invisible so other nen users don't see it unless they use Gyo on their eyes. Example Kurapica hiding his nen chain with In so Ubvogin doesn't see it.
Big difference between the two.
 

XXGenesis

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Ten is two techniques. Wing forcefully opens all of their pores, since they are normally closed, to make their aura come out more easily, therefore making retaining Ten more easy to attain. The pores manipulation is a part of Ten because later on they will learn Zetsu, which is closing off the said pores to not make the aura flow outside the body. The pores manipulation is crucial to the whole Nen concept. You can´t perform Ten if you can´t open your pores. If you can´t perform Ten, then you can´t perform Ren, Gyou, Shuu, Kou etc. You can´t perform Zetsu if you can´t close your pores.

Ad Hatsu; but the "HOW" is not explained. You don´t know how Enhancer does his enhancing, how Transmuter does his transmuting how Manipulator does his manipulation. What are the particles that constitute the Aura? When I heard the explanation for how supposedly Conjurers materialize their items of choice, I thought he was joking."Materialization is a physical process, where a near infinite amount (now this is golden) of aura is gathered together, it stabilizes and becomes an object." There is nothing said about creating atoms and molecules of materials to create these objects or how one creates the framework and binding structures to give it a form of a chain. I would be more than glad to accept it is magic, but the master says this very line "Materialization is not a convenient magic.", all of this actually takes me out of immersion. For example, Naruto´s chakra system relies heavily on reader to make these assumptions about it, so I just suspend my belief, because it is more of a cop out for Kishimoto to do whatever he wants. Togashi on the other hand states there rules explicitly and wants us to follow them or so to say, be straight with us that he has a system he won´t misuse on reader´s watch (but he does).

The reason I may seem overthinking is the fact that Togashi is clearly trying to make a working system that he can apply for battle and other things, so he must be very cautious about it and I believe his efforts should be met with at least partial effort on discuters side.
I like that you posts are well thought out and that you spend your time analyzing Hxh sper cool.

But I must say yo canot re-write or write of piece of the manga as if you are the author. Ten is one technique why because Togashi said so..Not much to argue with there, it's ludicris to say nah that not what he meant or he's wrong. Unless he's breaking the code to his own work which he hasn't only a minor mess up with Kurapica's OPness.

Your looing into Nen pores too much when they haven't even be elaborated on or referred to in in depth knowledge.. Your ores can be forcefully open or in time you'll learn to open your pores to allow you to access Nen...Ren, Ten, Gyo, Hatsu are Nen principles.. That all have advanced forms such as Ryu, Ko, In, En
Conjurer's when explained about their training, need visual, texture, hygiene etc etc and other familiarities to conjure such an item.....Stop stressing your head over Atoms, Mass it won't work with the fictional...I'm juss happy somebody is able to take the fiction of HxH and have it be so relatable to real life.

How do the characters do Hatsu...Same way Kurapicka learnt to conjure a chain, They take the necessary steps into forming an personal ability that'll suit their fighting style or needs.. Remember Hatsu technique's are commonly mixed more than 1 category of nen..........Emisson is often coupled with manipulation. As is manipulation an
conjuring
 

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Ten is two techniques. Wing forcefully opens all of their pores, since they are normally closed, to make their aura come out more easily, therefore making retaining Ten more easy to attain. The pores manipulation is a part of Ten because later on they will learn Zetsu, which is closing off the said pores to not make the aura flow outside the body. The pores manipulation is crucial to the whole Nen concept. You can´t perform Ten if you can´t open your pores. If you can´t perform Ten, then you can´t perform Ren, Gyou, Shuu, Kou etc. You can´t perform Zetsu if you can´t close your pores.
Disagreed.
Think of it as it was the air on your body. Trough the skin, air goes in and out. Imagine that you could actually control the air that goes out of your body. THAT is Ten. Is not the opening of the pores, or to close it. It's just shaping it. Basic manipulation of it.

The opening of the pores is not a technique itself, it's the awakening. In that sense, Zetsu is more related to that action than Ten is.

Ad Hatsu; but the "HOW" is not explained. You don´t know how Enhancer does his enhancing, how Transmuter does his transmuting how Manipulator does his manipulation. What are the particles that constitute the Aura? When I heard the explanation for how supposedly Conjurers materialize their items of choice, I thought he was joking."Materialization is a physical process, where a near infinite amount (now this is golden) of aura is gathered together, it stabilizes and becomes an object." There is nothing said about creating atoms and molecules of materials to create these objects or how one creates the framework and binding structures to give it a form of a chain. I would be more than glad to accept it is magic, but the master says this very line "Materialization is not a convenient magic.", all of this actually takes me out of immersion. For example, Naruto´s chakra system relies heavily on reader to make these assumptions about it, so I just suspend my belief, because it is more of a cop out for Kishimoto to do whatever he wants. Togashi on the other hand states there rules explicitly and wants us to follow them or so to say, be straight with us that he has a system he won´t misuse on reader´s watch (but he does).
For sure it's not always explained. But because it doesn't need to: It's stated that Nen works trough your emotions and vows as well. It's hard to imagine WHY that will empower your Hatsu. But it works like that. There is no need to ask yourself how it does that since the system is not yours to make :P
You will have to assume that you don't need to actually think on molecules when you conjure something, you just need to know how it feels and your brain (At least the unconscious part) works the other details.

When I say HOW I don't mean the technical part but how every character deals with their own energy. They have rites, peculiarities, way to act that endorses their techniques. Enhancement seems to be very limited on the things it can do, yet every Enhancer we have seen has a different technique and a different way to deal with their aura.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself correctly here >_>

About In...I think Togashi fucked that up, to be honest. In theory it works as a way to disguise the aura, but every situation regarding Gyo and In are quite confusing. I hope He fixes that later on.
 

Master OZ

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Master OZ, everything you said is true, I honestly agree with you. But let us face it, all of this Nen thing is fiction. I really wish if all of it was real, can you imagine how much damage a nen-user would do in real life :derp. The Nen theory was carefully designed and presented, but, keep in mind, Togashi , though a genius, isn't God.

This is what I understood about aura and how it works so far. Aura has a distinct system such as that of the nerves; when you use "En", its like you extend your body and can know exactly what comes to your range. When you use "Zetsu", closing the nodes, no one can see or feel you, you'll appear as a non-living object. If you imagine it as a part of your body, "Hatsu", "Ten" and "Ren" are also explainable.

"Gyou" and "In" remain a mystery. I mean does "In" encode the rays that get reflected from the aura, and does "Gyou" decode it so that it could be seen by the ordinary eye. :hmm
But bringing science to this fiction is fuuuuun:)

All the more reasons to bring, to those who can´t grasp that, the same sense of dread of Nen users as I have.

I can´t tell whether he is a genius or not. They tend to lose on the methodical and execution side of things.

The problem is that it wasn´t elaborated upon at all. If aura indeed had such an inherent distinct system, then everyone would be aware of their aura. But they are not, therefore they need to undergo prayers and meditations to become "aware" of it. They must create this "aural" framework on their own so that they can feel the aura. (As a sidenote this makes me really wary of the whole external awakening as Wing does it. Not because Nen users would be in thousands instead of dozens:), but by external awakening Kilklua´s and Gon´s v aura is released without them having laid any aural framework at all.They would have been utterly exhausted or dead if it weren´t for plot reasons. Laying such aural framework during several seconds is absolutely out of question.)

In Zetsu you can be seen, but there is an underlying concept of "presence" in almost all of manga. People sensing presence of other people seemingly on some hunch is a feat many characters across many franchises exhibit (let´s not go there). In Zetsu in order to "feel" you, one would have to touch or go inside your body with En, as opposed to normal state when one can touch the aura leaking from you or your Ten to "feel" you.

This would be even more insane, because then you would need a specific Gyou to break specific In (which in all honesty would be even more awesome). So far there seems to be one general In, so there would have to be one general Gyou (but that actually shouldn´t be true).

I like that you posts are well thought out and that you spend your time analyzing Hxh sper cool.

But I must say yo canot re-write or write of piece of the manga as if you are the author. Ten is one technique why because Togashi said so..Not much to argue with there, it's ludicris to say nah that not what he meant or he's wrong. Unless he's breaking the code to his own work which he hasn't only a minor mess up with Kurapica's OPness.

Your looing into Nen pores too much when they haven't even be elaborated on or referred to in in depth knowledge.. Your ores can be forcefully open or in time you'll learn to open your pores to allow you to access Nen...Ren, Ten, Gyo, Hatsu are Nen principles.. That all have advanced forms such as Ryu, Ko, In, En
Conjurer's when explained about their training, need visual, texture, hygiene etc etc and other familiarities to conjure such an item.....Stop stressing your head over Atoms, Mass it won't work with the fictional...I'm juss happy somebody is able to take the fiction of HxH and have it be so relatable to real life.

How do the characters do Hatsu...Same way Kurapicka learnt to conjure a chain, They take the necessary steps into forming an personal ability that'll suit their fighting style or needs.. Remember Hatsu technique's are commonly mixed more than 1 category of nen..........Emisson is often coupled with manipulation. As is manipulation an conjuring
Actually that is not ludicrous at all, Togashi is a human, he can make mistakes, especially in a series minced with such breaks as this one.

I could agree with some things before THAT. They are clearly in a world similar to ours, Nen should be held to some Physics standards, especially if they are used as an in-universe explanation for conjuring namely and double especially if Nen is portraited not as a convenient magic (say Avada Kedavra, point the stick and it dies), but as a system feasible in magic realism POV.

Disagreed.
Think of it as it was the air on your body. Trough the skin, air goes in and out. Imagine that you could actually control the air that goes out of your body. THAT is Ten. Is not the opening of the pores, or to close it. It's just shaping it. Basic manipulation of it.

The opening of the pores is not a technique itself, it's the awakening. In that sense, Zetsu is more related to that action than Ten is.


For sure it's not always explained. But because it doesn't need to: It's stated that Nen works trough your emotions and vows as well. It's hard to imagine WHY that will empower your Hatsu. But it works like that. There is no need to ask yourself how it does that since the system is not yours to make :P
You will have to assume that you don't need to actually think on molecules when you conjure something, you just need to know how it feels and your brain (At least the unconscious part) works the other details.


When I say HOW I don't mean the technical part but how every character deals with their own energy. They have rites, peculiarities, way to act that endorses their techniques. Enhancement seems to be very limited on the things it can do, yet every Enhancer we have seen has a different technique and a different way to deal with their aura.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself correctly here >_>

About In...I think Togashi fucked that up, to be honest. In theory it works as a way to disguise the aura, but every situation regarding Gyo and In are quite confusing. I hope He fixes that later on.
Actually I wouldn´t mind that, but if Zetsu is explicitly stated as closing off the nodes, then logically there must be a technique to do the reverse of that, otherwise they would be always in Zetsu once activated for the first time. And what kind of technique is better suited to do that than Ten.

I didn´t mean that. I meant for example; Enhancers have the best offense, defense and healing abilities. How? How they bolster their defense and offense (as in are they making their aura denser, tougher...which wouldn´t make them special at all) and healing ability (destroying things is easy, but healing is incredibly hard - repairing, reconstructing, replacing tissue on a cellular level is in my honest opinion feat ever impossible for Gon and all healing is basically all that{so far all that seems to be on autopilot, so to say, which makes it all the more bull}). If we look at Nen without taking account any discussion at all, then at least 80% of all Nen activities occur automatically or subconsciously, which is a very far cry from the system Togashi intended to use - that is; clearly and openly defined aura system that has no contradictions, is complete and has no dependencies in the defining principles.

You do but it is the technical part that causes me headaches. With proper insight into these things we could properly appreciate or even discuss the pros, cons of these abilities. As of now you can´t really compare anything else outside Uvo´s Big Bang attack and Gon´s Rock and then only by the effects (explosions or damage) they cause. But with that insight one could compare cost of one Big Bang with cost of one Rock, how many of them can they do on one day, how efficient are they when creating said effects from their aura AND compare all of that to, let´s say Knuckle´s aibility or Paku´s ability.
 

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@Master Oz
I see what your trying to do but you have a few things wrong. Ten isnt two abilities its just maintaining your aura once its been awoken and it provides no offense or defence whatsoever except against other nen users overflowing your aura nodes. It also has nothing to do with seeing nen, thats what happens when the aura nodes in your eyes are awoken.

As for hatsu it obviously was explained in greed island and is simply just your nen ability and its influenced and limited by what hatsu type you are. We dont know why ppl can do what they do with hatsu but they just can so we just go with it.

En isnt really an application of ten and ren but instead just projecting your aura farther than two meters out from your body for more than one minute (as shown in the manga here: http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/458/20930/7.jpg). Also En doesnt just automatically let you know what evberything in it is, it just allows you to "feel" beyond your own body since your nen is an extension of yourself. This is why you cant just no where and what everything in your en is like how the king couldnt tell what komugi was when she was wrapped up in palms hair.

Also In is actually perfectly fine bcuz even when nen users can see nen just by having aura nodes opened they still need gyo to focus and see nen sometimes. In is really to me just "dimming" down your nen so its not so easy for a nen user to see or feel.

As for gyo if you focus your aura anywhere on your body it will reinforce it like your eyes, ears, and nose like you said but that is just basic nen reinforcment. Hatsu is a completely separate entity from gyo. Reinforcement is just the basic increase to offence and defence you get from ren. Hatsu like enhancement or emission are completely differenent and you are just confusing them with each other.

Shu isnt just an apllication of ten, it can be (and preferably so) used with ken as well.

Your explanation of ken is off. It doesnt make your nen denser, it combines ten with ren in order to retain the reinforcement power boost from ren without tiring yourself out and also makes it more stable and therefore stronger.

When it comes to kou you are right except for the part about it using hatsu. It does not at all. Its an application of gyo usually while using ken (since its an advanced technique) that puts 100% of your aura in one area. However all that nen does is reinforce, their is no hatsu whatsover. You are confusing reinforcment with enhancement. Reinforcement is only your boost to offense and defence from ren. Enhancement is a hatsu that infuses your nen into an object (remembeer how adult gon charged up his janken guu vs pitou). They are completely different and of course enhancement is naturally stronger which is why enhancers are considered the best nenfighters.
Ten is two techniques. Wing forcefully opens all of their pores, since they are normally closed, to make their aura come out more easily, therefore making retaining Ten more easy to attain. The pores manipulation is a part of Ten because later on they will learn Zetsu, which is closing off the said pores to not make the aura flow outside the body. The pores manipulation is crucial to the whole Nen concept. You can´t perform Ten if you can´t open your pores. If you can´t perform Ten, then you can´t perform Ren, Gyou, Shuu, Kou etc. You can´t perform Zetsu if you can´t close your pores.

Ad Hatsu; but the "HOW" is not explained. You don´t know how Enhancer does his enhancing, how Transmuter does his transmuting how Manipulator does his manipulation. What are the particles that constitute the Aura? When I heard the explanation for how supposedly Conjurers materialize their items of choice, I thought he was joking."Materialization is a physical process, where a near infinite amount (now this is golden) of aura is gathered together, it stabilizes and becomes an object." There is nothing said about creating atoms and molecules of materials to create these objects or how one creates the framework and binding structures to give it a form of a chain. I would be more than glad to accept it is magic, but the master says this very line "Materialization is not a convenient magic.", all of this actually takes me out of immersion. For example, Naruto´s chakra system relies heavily on reader to make these assumptions about it, so I just suspend my belief, because it is more of a cop out for Kishimoto to do whatever he wants. Togashi on the other hand states there rules explicitly and wants us to follow them or so to say, be straight with us that he has a system he won´t misuse on reader´s watch (but he does).

The reason I may seem overthinking is the fact that Togashi is clearly trying to make a working system that he can apply for battle and other things, so he must be very cautious about it and I believe his efforts should be met with at least partial effort on discuters side.
Ten has noting to do with opening your pores, its only for containing then nen. Wing had to have used shu and run to open up their nodes and that act is called initiation. There is no such thing as pore manipulation when it comes to the pores themselves. You can only use zetsu to shut off pores and have your nen flow in cvertain directions or use ren to increase the output. Your aura will flow out by itself like its done your entire life until you die, all ten does is control the leakage not the valves.

And when it comes to how hatsu works sure it isnt explained in the manga but you can just observe how it works in the manga to get an idea of how it works. Just bcuz you dont understand how it works doesnt mean others dont.
 
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Master OZ

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@Master Oz
I see what your trying to do but you have a few things wrong. Ten isnt two abilities its just maintaining your aura once its been awoken and it provides no offense or defence whatsoever except against other nen users overflowing your aura nodes. It also has nothing to do with seeing nen, thats what happens when the aura nodes in your eyes are awoken.

As for hatsu it obviously was explained in greed island and is simply just your nen ability and its influenced and limited by what hatsu type you are. We dont know why ppl can do what they do with hatsu but they just can so we just go with it.

En isnt really an application of ten and ren but instead just projecting your aura farther than two meters out from your body for more than one minute (as shown in the manga here: http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/458/20930/7.jpg). Also En doesnt just automatically let you know what evberything in it is, it just allows you to "feel" beyond your own body since your nen is an extension of yourself. This is why you cant just no where and what everything in your en is like how the king couldnt tell what komugi was when she was wrapped up in palms hair.

Also In is actually perfectly fine bcuz even when nen users can see nen just by having aura nodes opened they still need gyo to focus and see nen sometimes. In is really to me just "dimming" down your nen so its not so easy for a nen user to see or feel.

As for gyo if you focus your aura anywhere on your body it will reinforce it like your eyes, ears, and nose like you said but that is just basic nen reinforcment. Hatsu is a completely separate entity from gyo. Reinforcement is just the basic increase to offence and defence you get from ren. Hatsu like enhancement or emission are completely differenent and you are just confusing them with each other.

Shu isnt just an apllication of ten, it can be (and preferably so) used with ken as well.

Your explanation of ken is off. It doesnt make your nen denser, it combines ten with ren in order to retain the reinforcement power boost from ren without tiring yourself out and also makes it more stable and therefore stronger.

When it comes to kou you are right except for the part about it using hatsu. It does not at all. Its an application of gyo usually while using ken (since its an advanced technique) that puts 100% of your aura in one area. However all that nen does is reinforce, their is no hatsu whatsover. You are confusing reinforcment with enhancement. Reinforcement is only your boost to offense and defence from ren. Enhancement is a hatsu that infuses your nen into an object (remembeer how adult gon charged up his janken guu vs pitou). They are completely different and of course enhancement is naturally stronger which is why enhancers are considered the best nenfighters.

Ten has noting to do with opening your pores, its only for containing then nen. Wing had to have used shu and run to open up their nodes and that act is called initiation. There is no such thing as pore manipulation when it comes to the pores themselves. You can only use zetsu to shut off pores and have your nen flow in cvertain directions or use ren to increase the output. Your aura will flow out by itself like its done your entire life until you die, all ten does is control the leakage not the valves.

And when it comes to how hatsu works sure it isnt explained in the manga but you can just observe how it works in the manga to get an idea of how it works. Just bcuz you dont understand how it works doesnt mean others dont.
Seeing as my posts are incredibly long, I´ll try making them as short as possible and reuse relevant parts where possible.

Actually I wouldn´t mind that, but if Zetsu is explicitly stated as closing off the nodes, then logically there must be a technique to do the reverse of that, otherwise they would be always in Zetsu once activated for the first time. And what kind of technique is better suited to do that than Ten.

If pure aura can destroy body, it stands to reason that pure aura can guard against pure body attacks to some extent.

http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v11/c094/10.html the feel of everything is described one page after that. The translation isn´t really spectacular, but the info is more or less intact.

When King used his En he said that registered another 2 nen users, it is safe to assume he felt Komugi, but since he couldn´t remember her, he just registered a simple human, that was of no threat.

In isn´t perfectly fine as an application of Zetsu. Read up on the whole discussion of Gyo on this page. "Dimming" your Nen with In would be Transformation - Hatsu. ACTUALLY REREADING THE PART WHERE WING HAS SAID THAT THEY CAN SEE NORMAL AURA BECAUSE EYE PORES WERE OPENED (48c/12p). So that´s one thing cleared up I guess.

Except reinforcing normal functions and workings of things is trait of Enhancer, so either they are using enhancer Hatsu with these techniques (making point about Conjurer Ten, Emmision Ten etc. VERY valid point) or this whole thing makes no sense.

Shu is extending your Ten on other things - Ken is more than that. As far as I know there is no precedent or example for that, although it doesn´t mean it doesn´t exist; there is for Shu and Kou though).

Ken is more tiring than Ren, because you are using Ten and Ren at once. Your explanation after that actually supports my first explanation.

Kou -http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v15/c141/10.html

This is actually disputable. Is there a neutral aura, since it has been shown that there is a latent Hatsu in everyone´s aura? What are the properties of neutral aura, can one deHatsu aura, etc..?

You contradict yourself. Closing your pores off Is pores manipulation. That is not surprising because that is also in the manga.

That is not shown, they only show the results.
 
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tupadre97

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Seeing as my posts are incredibly long, I´ll try making them as short as possible and reuse relevant parts where possible.

Actually I wouldn´t mind that, but if Zetsu is explicitly stated as closing off the nodes, then logically there must be a technique to do the reverse of that, otherwise they would be always in Zetsu once activated for the first time. And what kind of technique is better suited to do that than Ten.

If pure aura can destroy body, it stands to reason that pure aura can guard against pure body attacks to some extent.

http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v11/c094/10.html the feel of everything is described one page after that. The translation isn´t really spectacular, but the info is more or less intact.

When King used his En he said that registered another 2 nen users, it is safe to assume he felt Komugi, but since he couldn´t remember her, he just registered a simple human, that was of no threat.

In isn´t perfectly fine as an application of Zetsu. Read up on the whole discussion of Gyo on this page. "Dimming" your Nen with In would be Transformation - Hatsu. ACTUALLY REREADING THE PART WHERE WING HAS SAID THAT THEY CAN SEE NORMAL AURA BECAUSE EYE PORES WERE OPENED (48c/12p). So that´s one thing cleared up I guess.

Except reinforcing normal functions and workings of things is trait of Enhancer, so either they are using enhancer Hatsu with these techniques (making point about Conjurer Ten, Emmision Ten etc. VERY valid point) or this whole thing makes no sense.

Shu is extending your Ten on other things - Ken is more than that. As far as I know there is no precedent or example for that, although it doesn´t mean it doesn´t exist; there is for Shu and Kou though).

Ken is more tiring than Ren, because you are using Ten and Ren at once. Your explanation after that actually supports my first explanation.

Kou -http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v15/c141/10.html

This is actually disputable. Is there a neutral aura, since it has been shown that there is a latent Hatsu in everyone´s aura? What are the properties of neutral aura, can one deHatsu aura, etc..?

You contradict yourself. Closing your pores off Is pores manipulation. That is not surprising because that is also in the manga.

That is not shown, they only show the results.
Ok first off you say that since zetsu exists there must be an opposite technique but that doesn't make any sense. Nothing about nen says there must be an opposite for every technique. You also say if you used zesty your aura would always be closed but that's false bcuz your aura is actually always flowing and zestu is the only thing that stops it. If you don't use zestu it will just leak out again. You don't have conscious control about opening your aura pores you can only close them.

When the king used En he could not tell komugi was even human, he just sensed she was carrying something bcuz she was covered up.

Dimming your aura isn't transmutation it is In. There is no other possible explanation for what In can be. We don't know how they do it but we know they can, it's effects (needing to use gyo to see even thought you can already see nen), and that it's not a harsh at all but simply a sort of advanced application of zestu albeit in a different sense.

Then again you confuse and mix up the basic techniques with hatsu. There is no such thing as emission ten, conjurer ten, etc. And again there is a clear difference between reinforcement and enhancement, read my post again.


As for ken I think I do remember now that is was more tiring but it's is still far stronger than normal den because it maintains that power boost all over your body and allows you to use the other advanced techniques and your own hastu far more effectively than just normal ten and ten.

And just so you know I can't see any of your links and there isn't any thing as "latenet hatsu" or hatsu in your aura, that's not at all how it works. As for the typos that's bcuz I was typing on a tablet and it kept messing up but whatever.
 
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Ok first off you say that since zetsu exists there must be an opposite technique but that doesn't make any sense. Nothing about nen says there must be an opposite for every technique. You also say if you used zesty your aura would always be closed but that's false bcuz your aura is actually always flowing and zestu is the only thing that stops it. If you don't use zestu it will just leak out again. You don't have conscious control about opening your aura pores you can only close them.

When the king used En he could not tell komugi was even human, he just sensed she was carrying something bcuz she was covered up.

Dimming your aura isn't transmutation it is In. There is no other possible explanation for what In can be. We don't know how they do it but we know they can, it's effects (needing to use gyo to see even thought you can already see nen), and that it's not a harsh at all but simply a sort of advanced application of zestu albeit in a different sense.

Then again you confuse and mix up the basic techniques with hatsu. There is no such thing as emission ten, conjurer ten, etc. And again there is a clear difference between reinforcement and enhancement, read my post again.


As for ken I think I do remember now that is was more tiring but it's is still far stronger than normal den because it maintains that power boost all over your body and allows you to use the other advanced techniques and your own hastu far more effectively than just normal ten and ten.

And just so you know I can't see any of your links and there isn't any thing as "latenet hatsu" or hatsu in your aura, that's not at all how it works. As for the typos that's bcuz I was typing on a tablet and it kept messing up but whatever.
It makes sense. Zetsu closes nodes so the aura doesn´t come out. Stopping Zetsu would mean some nodes are open and some are closed, but for Ten all nodes must be open.

I said nodes would be closed and thus aura won´t ever come out.

State proof. My argumentation is http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v29/c308/17.html. On that page we can see Palm´s hair doesn´t cover Komugi perfectly (it doesn´t even have En blocking properties, is there even something that can block En) so he detected her, but didn´t take her as a threat because she is not a Nen user (no Ten etc., but she has a Nen ability) or a fighter.

Changing properties of your aura or changing your aura into something is the definition of Transmutation.

And In being advanced application of Zetsu is the source of the problem (it is bull).

There is distinct Enhancer Ten, Uvo´s Ten (a master Enhancer) stopped sniper shots (automatically) and bazookas, by the same logic there should be Ten for each Hatsu type.

So what are you arguing about? It is exactly like I mentioned it for the first time. Except Hatsu part - there is no proof as of yet that proves Ken allows you to use Hatsu more effectively.

Take a look at the links later then, typos are okay for me if the point comes across. Latent Hatsu is an important point in Hatsu training, they are detecting their latent or inborn Hatsu through Ren (which is increase of amount of actualized aura so that the latent Hatsu is more easily detected) so they can focus on it and later on develop ability that suits them.

As a sidenote, somehow I get the feeling we are veering from playful tone to some offensive argument so I´ll lay off for at least a week to cool down.
 

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It makes sense. Zetsu closes nodes so the aura doesn´t come out. Stopping Zetsu would mean some nodes are open and some are closed, but for Ten all nodes must be open.

I said nodes would be closed and thus aura won´t ever come out.

State proof. My argumentation is http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v29/c308/17.html. On that page we can see Palm´s hair doesn´t cover Komugi perfectly (it doesn´t even have En blocking properties, is there even something that can block En) so he detected her, but didn´t take her as a threat because she is not a Nen user (no Ten etc., but she has a Nen ability) or a fighter.

Changing properties of your aura or changing your aura into something is the definition of Transmutation.

And In being advanced application of Zetsu is the source of the problem (it is bull).

There is distinct Enhancer Ten, Uvo´s Ten (a master Enhancer) stopped sniper shots (automatically) and bazookas, by the same logic there should be Ten for each Hatsu type.

So what are you arguing about? It is exactly like I mentioned it for the first time. Except Hatsu part - there is no proof as of yet that proves Ken allows you to use Hatsu more effectively.

Take a look at the links later then, typos are okay for me if the point comes across. Latent Hatsu is an important point in Hatsu training, they are detecting their latent or inborn Hatsu through Ren (which is increase of amount of actualized aura so that the latent Hatsu is more easily detected) so they can focus on it and later on develop ability that suits them.

As a sidenote, somehow I get the feeling we are veering from playful tone to some offensive argument so I´ll lay off for at least a week to cool down.
When you stop using zetsu all of your aura nodes open bcuz they are always open. Zetsu is the only thing that stops that. You dont need anything to reopen them since it happens naturally. And if In really does use zetsu then i guess it involves slightly closing your nodes to make your nen less visible but we dont really no how it works so whatever. Regardless it still fits with thennen system and isnt bs just bvu we dont know the exact mechanics. The same way the god letters are apart of nen but we have no idea how they work. The rest of your post is nonsense. Im not even gonna adress it. You obviously didnt comprehend anything i said so we are done.
 
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It makes sense. Zetsu closes nodes so the aura doesn´t come out. Stopping Zetsu would mean some nodes are open and some are closed, but for Ten all nodes must be open.

I said nodes would be closed and thus aura won´t ever come out.

State proof. My argumentation is http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v29/c308/17.html. On that page we can see Palm´s hair doesn´t cover Komugi perfectly (it doesn´t even have En blocking properties, is there even something that can block En) so he detected her, but didn´t take her as a threat because she is not a Nen user (no Ten etc., but she has a Nen ability) or a fighter.

Changing properties of your aura or changing your aura into something is the definition of Transmutation.

And In being advanced application of Zetsu is the source of the problem (it is bull).

There is distinct Enhancer Ten, Uvo´s Ten (a master Enhancer) stopped sniper shots (automatically) and bazookas, by the same logic there should be Ten for each Hatsu type.

So what are you arguing about? It is exactly like I mentioned it for the first time. Except Hatsu part - there is no proof as of yet that proves Ken allows you to use Hatsu more effectively.

Take a look at the links later then, typos are okay for me if the point comes across. Latent Hatsu is an important point in Hatsu training, they are detecting their latent or inborn Hatsu through Ren (which is increase of amount of actualized aura so that the latent Hatsu is more easily detected) so they can focus on it and later on develop ability that suits them.

As a sidenote, somehow I get the feeling we are veering from playful tone to some offensive argument so I´ll lay off for at least a week to cool down.
Komugi didn't develop Nen until before the King died during their last games. It's shown when she touches the piece and see's all possible moves mentally...Before this she was awakening This is when the King realizes a human as smart as her is developing Nen because of the level of concentration, dedication, love, enjoyment for Gun-Gi.

Togashi hasn't made such a big mistake as your saying and your honestly trying to disprove something thats fact... I don't see any hints of flame but this may be why the convo is getting heated.

Wheter it makes sense to you or not that doesn't change it from being fact or right.

Aura is always dissipating from the body through your pores.

Ten keeps this aura from leaking out; Ten is maintaining your aura around the body,....That game Ging was playing is a form of Ten, Ten in a sense is like shaping your aura.

Zetsu Locks all of your aura inside of you, even when normally your aura would leak away. If you lock ya door? Don't you use just twist it the other way to open it? You just stop doing Zetsu to open up ya pores....
 

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I would think there is proof that ken generally makes hatsu stronger. Of course, it does not apply to all hatsu however it certainly works for most of it. Ken is basically maintaining ren which means ken is a state in which you are consistently outputting the greatest amount of aura you can. When you are using nen to attack directly the manga has shown that the max amount of aura you can use to power that attack is the amount of aura in your ken. That is basically what ko is. There is also the razor example who is an emitter. When he had his demons around they were using up a portion of his aura which is why when they returned his aura was larger. Same thing would go for transmuters, the maximum of the thing they are transmuting their nen to is the total of their ken. It wouldn't work for conjuration or manipulation though, they work different from the other 3 schools for the most part.
 

Riyuki

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^ in the game J-Stars Victory Vs, Gon has 2 modes he can enter: Ko and Ken, whenever he enters Ken his aura is blue/white and his defense is way stronger. When he uses Ko his aura turns yellow and his attacks drastically increase. I just thought this would be an interesting fact for some people.
 

Master OZ

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When you stop using zetsu all of your aura nodes open bcuz they are always open. Zetsu is the only thing that stops that. You dont need anything to reopen them since it happens naturally. And if In really does use zetsu then i guess it involves slightly closing your nodes to make your nen less visible but we dont really no how it works so whatever. Regardless it still fits with thennen system and isnt bs just bvu we dont know the exact mechanics. The same way the god letters are apart of nen but we have no idea how they work. The rest of your post is nonsense. Im not even gonna adress it. You obviously didnt comprehend anything i said so we are done.
If they were all open then all people would die of fatigue. There are generally three basic node states; Zetsu - all nodes are closed, aura is bottled inside. Ten - all nodes are opened and user retains the aura around him. Normal state - normal people and Nen users not using Ten or Zetsu are at this state, some nodes are open and some are closed, aura is leaking outside.

In is stated to be an application of Zetsu, but your explanation doesn´t cover In applied on Kurapika´s chains, so there you go.

I admit there I have no idea what you are talking about right now (god letters?!?).

You think there is a miscomprehension and you don´t strive to rectify it in any way. You just came here to state your opinions and "facts" without any intent of discussing at all, so yes we are done.

Komugi didn't develop Nen until before the King died during their last games. It's shown when she touches the piece and see's all possible moves mentally...Before this she was awakening This is when the King realizes a human as smart as her is developing Nen because of the level of concentration, dedication, love, enjoyment for Gun-Gi.

Togashi hasn't made such a big mistake as your saying and your honestly trying to disprove something thats fact... I don't see any hints of flame but this may be why the convo is getting heated.

Wheter it makes sense to you or not that doesn't change it from being fact or right.

Aura is always dissipating from the body through your pores.

Ten keeps this aura from leaking out; Ten is maintaining your aura around the body,....That game Ging was playing is a form of Ten, Ten in a sense is like shaping your aura.

Zetsu Locks all of your aura inside of you, even when normally your aura would leak away. If you lock ya door? Don't you use just twist it the other way to open it? You just stop doing Zetsu to open up ya pores....
Komugi didn´t develop Nen at all. She just has Nen ability - she doesn´t have Ten, or Ren, or Zetsu (if you can disprove, by all means do), just like Alluka (if that is a Nen ability at all, or the ability of Nanika remains to be seen).

The thing is Togashi is not using facts at all. He created some world and a Nen system. In his universe they are facts, but as far as our world is concerned, nothing about Nen is a fact. If it is a fact it can be proved which is not the case in Nen system, you can only use a piece of his (maybe inherently flawed) Nen fiction to prove his Nen fiction.

when nodes are closed the aura is Not disspating outside - that is the point of Zetsu.

Shaping your aura into numbers is a basic Transmuter training so there´s that.

I would think there is proof that ken generally makes hatsu stronger. Of course, it does not apply to all hatsu however it certainly works for most of it. Ken is basically maintaining ren which means ken is a state in which you are consistently outputting the greatest amount of aura you can. When you are using nen to attack directly the manga has shown that the max amount of aura you can use to power that attack is the amount of aura in your ken. That is basically what ko is. There is also the razor example who is an emitter. When he had his demons around they were using up a portion of his aura which is why when they returned his aura was larger. Same thing would go for transmuters, the maximum of the thing they are transmuting their nen to is the total of their ken. It wouldn't work for conjuration or manipulation though, they work different from the other 3 schools for the most part.
I see what you mean and I agree in that sense it would make Hatsu stronger, but there are two things I to mention with that. Firstly; Ken is an incredibly difficult technique, it takes an enormous time to increase Ken sustainability time. If we can take Biscuits´estimations and Gon´s estimations as true then; 1 month of training of Ren = +10 minutes of Ren = +1 minute of Ken, but since Gon and Killua are protagonists AND incredibly talented, they somehow defy those computations, despite that let´s take the computations as true. Secondly; in Knuckle´s aura numbers explanation Ken is considered a very advanced technique, in his thoughts Ken consumes aura much faster than Ten or Ren. From those two points it leads to my opinion that Ken sacrifices efficiency for conveniency AND is incredibly hard to attain, let alone durable. You make your Hatsu stronger but it costs you more aura than usual (in the efficiency POV, not just the amount POV) and the effect making the Hatsu stronger comes from Ren (at least I think). This makes Ken viable technique ONLY for combat, in noncombat situations I would say people would just concentrate on Ren; three hours of Ren > 30 minutes of Ken. So to reiterate Ken does make Hatsu stronger but when taking into account the aura involved, it actually makes Hatsu worse (in the sense that Hatsu doesn´t get the boost it would get in normal situations).

I get and agree with the Transmuters part, but the Emitter part? I don´t think Ken is involved. Razors´ ability could use explanation here. I don´t know how accurate Hunterpedia (the wikia) is, but there is something missing. Razor must be also using Transmuting. If he were using Conjuring then his dolls wouldn´t be Emission dolls and just by using Emission he wouldn´t get their looks, voices, shapes so he must be using Transmuting. Razor then uses Ren, transmutes that into dolls, cuts them off and Manipulates them from distance.........but since they are an aura......then he must retain them manually....with Ten..... which makes it Ken........ so uh.. yeah you´re right here too.

As a sidenote, that Razor example got me thinking, what if Killua uses the electricity to recharge aura and not the electricity. If Razor can Transmute his dolls back into aura, then Killua should be able to Transmute his electricity back into aura. That would mean if killua finds an electricity source similar to his electricity, he should be able to transmute that electricity into his aura for him to use.
 
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