Ace vs Aokji

[Poneglyph420]

Very clever science, but in manga destiny wins over science.

 

[tothx]

Well if there is enough ice ace has to be carefull too. Melting is i bad as there will be water and he along with all the other devils fruit users cant swim.

 

[Dr.Robotnick]

FIRE VS ICE
Aokiji is more strong and expierenced that ace but wins ace becuose ace can controle the fire and aokiji-sama can do enithing versus him...

---

But ace has gonna be carefully becuase aokiji is strong

 

[beastboy]

well, I won't go with a scientific explanation but with a One Piece normal battle explanation.
So probably Ace would star atacking, with som hiken.
Aokiji would avoid the atack and try to freeze bring the combat close distance, running to ace.
Ace, would just rush against aokiji and then it would have some punches exchange, were ace would be with os fists blocked in the Ice, the ace says:
"entei" a large flame appears all around ace and aokiji jumps back.
In the end it would be the no DF fighting who would determinate the winner, and I will give that to the man that fighed with jinbei, near the sea for 5 days.

ps:Aokiji can freeze the air, in ohara he freezed that giant in a block of ice..

 

[BlackHair]

This is One piece, not Pokemon. Especially since the introduction of haki.

Im putting AoKiji despite his elemental weakness above Ace. Since I believe he has a greater/stronger haki than Ace and supported with his experience he can probably overcome fire in someway.

it all comes down to the temperature guys =D

U explained very well in a scientific way. But in OP and mostly in all shounen manga, I wouldn't go scientific. True Oda's work is based on real world science, yet it is just a simple manga. So the most simple understanding puts fire above Ice. Yet I think it comes down to haki.

ps:Aokiji can freeze the air, in ohara he freezed that giant in a block of ice..

No, he can't. AoKiji needs an Object to freeze. It's not like he can freeze the air, which would make him truly overpowered.

 

[ScratchmenApoo]

A strong enough fire, like Ace's final attack vs. Blackbeard, would evaporate Aokiji if he was caught off guard. Aokiji is pretty much dead then, but he wouldn't be that stupid to go against it, if he saw it coming.
What interests me is that if Ace is in human form, and say Aokiji freezes his arm, can he turn the hand into fire or not?
If he can, then Aokiji would be a sure loser.
But Aokiji has like 7 times longer experience with his freezing DF, so he probably has come up with a lot of different attacks to catch Ace off guard.

I still voted for Ace.

 

[Jiggy-Ninja]

Who would win ultimately depends on who Oda wants to win.

In most entertainment media of all kinds, fire has an absolute advantage against ice. So by that premise, Ace would kick Aokiji's ass.

But from a physics standpoint, it's not so simple. Though ice does melt in the presence of fire, it does so by absorbing heat from the fire. That in turn makes the fire weaker. So a cold enough ice (like something you might find in Antarctica) versus a weak enough flame (like a candle), the the ice wins hands down, since the ice will suck all the heat away from.

So, what it all comes down to, is whether Aokiji can create cold faster than Ace can create heat. If he can do that, he can smother Ace's fire just as effectively as throwing water on it. And from what we've seen (freezing the ocean around Longring Longland, stopping Whitebeard's tidal waves in their tracks, and freezing the bay), Aokiji can create a lot of cold really, really fast.

The biggest attack we've seen of Ace's is Dai Enkai: Entei, and even that seems to be a bit smaller scale than what we've seen Aokiji do.

I'm going to vote for Aokiji on this one.

---

Aokiji's power isn't simply ice, it's "freezing". That means it's absolutely screwed against Ace. And based off what little info we have, Ace would probably make a fool of Aokiji in a fist fight. Aokiji is stronger overall because of how huge his power gets on the ocean, but he can't beat Ace.

Remember that Crocodile could counter his own weakness by absorbing water. So he wouldn't necessarily lose to a water man (if such a thing is possible for a DF).

In the same vein, Aokiji may have the secondary ability to absorb heat. If so, than Aokiji could counter Ace's fire blasts the same way Croco-boy could counter Mizu Luffy's water spurts. http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/201/09/

No, it's not "Pokemon" information it's the laws of physics. Fire produces heat which is able to break the bonds holding ice together and causing it to melt into water. So far the laws of physics seem to apply to Devil Fruit users so why should fire vs. ice be any different? For example, Mr. 3's wax melts in the presence of fire, Luffy is unaffected by Enel's lightning because he's rubber, Smoker is scared he'll get blown away if he transforms in windy weather etc. etc. Therefore the information is "viable". I apologize for the physics lesson but it was necessary to support my point.

There are also ways were normal physics don't apply to DF users.

Taking a 100,000,000 volt lightning bolt to the face would give Luffy some pretty nasty burns, whether or not he is made of rubber. Gloam Paddling is also a physical impossibility.

A laser beam doesn't explode when it hits at target, at worst it burns straight through it.

Physics applies of selectively to DF powers, just like everything else in One Piece.

 

[Bugzee]

Hard decision, but imo I think Ace would win! Aokiji can use ice to create barriers and obstacles between himself and Ace's attacks but if he receives a direct hit from Ace with his flame flame fruit I think Aokiji would sustain considerable damage! Yea he can use ice as a outer layer all over his body but it will still melt eventually!

 

[winterwyrm]

I vote ace, simply because freezing is adding cold, while fire is a reaction that lets off heat, that would probably mean that ace can produce more heat than aokiji can take away, plus ace is physically at least as strong as luffy, and can actually fly (see ace vs smoker) while there is heavy evidence that ao kiji can just jump high.

 

[Duzy]

Let's remember the very person this discussion is about (Ace) fighting someone who can actually manipulate water (Jimbei). To be able to lead to a stalemate makes Ace look pretty amazing. Oh wait... And if there was no water nearby to manipulate ? Well that would make look Jimbei pretty amazing since he isn't a logia himself, pretty much close to the situation Aokiji would find himself in if he was to fight Ace.

We won't know until it happens.

As-for-the-speed-of-melting-posts. We were given some hints. A single magma punch can evaporate an iceberg in an instant. Eveporate as in "just now it was, and now it is not". Although it might lead to a flawed assumption (magma is not exactly fire) it's also the only reliable piece of information. If you want to get into detailed physics, you can as well put the possible alterations steming from the interference of Noroma photons that don't exist in reality, yet still have more credibility in this world than the existence of an absolute zero temperature.

 

[Jiggy-Ninja]

I vote ace, simply because freezing is adding cold, while fire is a reaction that lets off heat, that would probably mean that ace can produce more heat than aokiji can take away, plus ace is physically at least as strong as luffy, and can actually fly (see ace vs smoker) while there is heavy evidence that ao kiji can just jump high.

There is no such thing as "Adding cold". All you can do is take away heat. And Aokiji can absorb a huge amount of heat in a short time. He stopped two gigantic tsunami in their tracks and froze the entire bay in an instant.

Water has a very large specific heat, meaning that it takes a large amount of heat moving in or out of it in order to change it's temperature. In terms of volume, water requires 3,200 times more energy than air to change its temperature by the same amount.

Let's try a little estimation here.

First, we must make a set of reasonable assumptions.

• The volume of the tsunamis that Aokiji froze is 5 times greater than the size of Ace's Entei.
• We'll assume that the sea water around the island is fairly warm, at 20 C. Aokiji freezes it to -10 C. This means that there is a change in temperature of 30 C. In all likelihood, it's much colder, but I'm being conservative in this estimate.
• Ace's Entei heats the air by 3,000 C. This is ridiculously hot, just below the melting point of tungsten.

Set up the proportions with Aokiji's energy on the left and Ace's on the right.

3,200 * 5 * 30 1 * 1 * 3,000

480,000 3,000

Under these assumptions, Aokiji was able to displace 160 times more energy than Ace can.

Going by some basic physics, Aokiji handily kicks Ace's ass. But, manga is not bound by the constraints of physics, so this is all basically meaningless.

As-for-the-speed-of-melting-posts. We were given some hints. A single magma punch can evaporate an iceberg in an instant. Eveporate as in "just now it was, and now it is not". Although it might lead to a flawed assumption (magma is not exactly fire) it's also the only reliable piece of information. If you want to get into detailed physics, you can as well put the possible alterations steming from the interference of Noroma photons that don't exist in reality, yet still have more credibility in this world than the existence of an absolute zero temperature.

Magma is heated rock. Fire is heated air. Rock has a far higher specific heat than air does, and therefore has more energy and can melt the ice easier.

 

[bittman]

Even though you bring unnecessary science into a world where people can get stabbed through the stomach and can heal by eating meat, I did enjoy the energy conversion you made.

What I got out of that though, is a question: Can Aokoji freeze immaterial objects? We've seen him freeze people, grass to make a blade, waves of water, etc, but if fire is simply heated air, can Aokoji freeze the air that the ball uses to maintain it's energy?

Either way, I'm actually wanting to change my vote. Ages ago I voted Ace...then I kinda saw Aokoji avoid a haki bisento, freeze two enormous tidal waves, freeze Joz and, most impressively, block a WB quake with the other two admirals (haki hint). When compared to Ace's display against Blacbkeard, even if I did keep with the pokemon effective types and ignored the physics, their difference in combat strength is evident I feel.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

What I got out of that though, is a question: Can Aokoji freeze immaterial objects? We've seen him freeze people, grass to make a blade, waves of water, etc, but if fire is simply heated air, can Aokoji freeze the air that the ball uses to maintain it's energy?

I don't think he can freeze every kind of immaterial objects. For example, at MHQ, Ao Kiji did not manage to freeze WB more than a few seconds because he can't freeze vibrations. Yet, when he froze WB, the ice block was bigger than WB : that means the air around was frozen.
His ice spears (block partisans) are likely done by freezing the air. Yet, in Longrind Longland, Ao Kiji took grass and froze it to create an ice sword, he did not directly freeze air : to that, I'd answer he used grass to make the ice harsher and resistent enough to Zoro'sword.

 

[Jiggy-Ninja]

Even though you bring unnecessary science into a world where people can get stabbed through the stomach and can heal by eating meat, I did enjoy the energy conversion you made.

I know it's unnecessary, I just do it because it's fun.

What I got out of that though, is a question: Can Aokoji freeze immaterial objects? We've seen him freeze people, grass to make a blade, waves of water, etc, but if fire is simply heated air, can Aokoji freeze the air that the ball uses to maintain it's energy?

He wouldn't need to freeze the ball entirely to render it ineffective, just cool it off to a more manageable temperature.

Either way, I'm actually wanting to change my vote. Ages ago I voted Ace...then I kinda saw Aokoji avoid a haki bisento, freeze two enormous tidal waves, freeze Joz and, most impressively, block a WB quake with the other two admirals (haki hint). When compared to Ace's display against Blacbkeard, even if I did keep with the pokemon effective types and ignored the physics, their difference in combat strength is evident I feel.

I agree, the Admirals are a lot more awesome than most of us anticipated.

In terms of Pokemon, Ace vs Aokiji is like Regice vs Chimchar.

Speaking of Pokemon...there's a counterpart for each of the Admirals, Aokiji, Kizaru, and Akainu.

 

[Naruffy]

Ace vs Aojiki is much like Luffy vs Eneru. Ace can withstand Aojiki's attacks because of the elemental advantage and can also deal a good ammount of damage to Aojiki aswell.

When has fire ever been frozen?

I agree, the Admirals are a lot more awesome than most of us anticipated.

In terms of Pokemon, Ace vs Aokiji is like Regice vs Chimchar.

Marco and Jozu were both fighting on even terms with the Admirals, but they got distracted. If it were a one on one fight with no distractions, things would be going much differently. Your underestimating Ace a lot by saying that his elemental advantage means nothing because he's to weak (I'm guessing that's what the pokemon reference means).

 

[Duzy]

I don't think he can freeze every kind of immaterial objects. For example, at MHQ, Ao Kiji did not manage to freeze WB more than a few seconds because he can't freeze vibrations. Yet, when he froze WB, the ice block was bigger than WB : that means the air around was frozen.
His ice spears (block partisans) are likely done by freezing the air. Yet, in Longrind Longland, Ao Kiji took grass and froze it to create an ice sword, he did not directly freeze air : to that, I'd answer he used grass to make the ice harsher and resistent enough to Zoro'sword.

Does the frozen air really become solid ice block ? Or did I misunderstand ? I always thought these moments were just about creating ice. I mean, I heard somewhere that Oda specified logias on the example of Ace and there was no mention of creating anything, but now looking at logias' fights (especially Akainu) I think he might have reexamined his views .

And yes, I think that the whole "If he creates ice out of thin air then he must create water along with it" is the least significant thing here. I wouldn't be surprised if Oda didn't notice that little snag, perhaps noticed it just recently and thought to himself: "oh well, looks cool anyway doesn't it ?"

I have to say it does and that's all there is to it for me.

 

[Poneglyph420]

Wow this is another physics post?? Sure logic matters to an extent but ok.....

Ace is the son of Roger and Whitebeard's "Chosen" "Son". He must be skilled w/o his DF or with it. I think people are discounting his ability based on the fact BB captured him. Quess what if it was Aokiji he'd be dead right now IMO.

Regardless of the mechanics of their DF abilities Ace is a Fire logia fighting a Ice logia... How does Ace not have an advantage?? Ace is a son of "Destiny" again an edge in my eyes.....

Sure I'm an admitted Ace fan, but still. Just seems like in Shonen manga such deep science need not apply.

Ace vs. Aokiji = Ace wins.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Does the frozen air really become solid ice block ? Or did I misunderstand ? I always thought these moments were just about creating ice. I mean, I heard somewhere that Oda specified logias on the example of Ace and there was no mention of creating anything, but now looking at logias' fights (especially Akainu) I think he might have reexamined his views .

And yes, I think that the whole "If he creates ice out of thin air then he must create water along with it" is the least significant thing here. I wouldn't be surprised if Oda didn't notice that little snag, perhaps noticed it just recently and thought to himself: "oh well, looks cool anyway doesn't it ?"

I have to say it does and that's all there is to it for me.

If Ao Kiji just created ice, nobody would be frozen. That's not by putting ice blocks around you that you ends up frozen. With Ao Kiji, the victims'bodies have been shown frozen, not only covered by ice : remember Luffy, Robin and Paul (I meant Saul ). You've also got the obvious examples of frozen water : Ao Kiji did not create seas of ice, he justs froze those seas.
About Ao Kiji's powers, he froze things thanks to his body who can turn into ice. He may also creates ice (when he froze WB's tsunami, there was ice connected with the sea'waves) but it could also be frozen air.

 

[RichardMNixon]

There is no such thing as "Adding cold". All you can do is take away heat. And Aokiji can absorb a huge amount of heat in a short time. He stopped two gigantic tsunami in their tracks and froze the entire bay in an instant.

Water has a very large specific heat, meaning that it takes a large amount of heat moving in or out of it in order to change it's temperature. In terms of volume, water requires 3,200 times more energy than air to change its temperature by the same amount.

Let's try a little estimation here.

First, we must make a set of reasonable assumptions.

• The volume of the tsunamis that Aokiji froze is 5 times greater than the size of Ace's Entei.
• We'll assume that the sea water around the island is fairly warm, at 20 C. Aokiji freezes it to -10 C. This means that there is a change in temperature of 30 C. In all likelihood, it's much colder, but I'm being conservative in this estimate.
• Ace's Entei heats the air by 3,000 C. This is ridiculously hot, just below the melting point of tungsten.

Set up the proportions with Aokiji's energy on the left and Ace's on the right.

3,200 * 5 * 30 1 * 1 * 3,000

480,000 3,000

Under these assumptions, Aokiji was able to displace 160 times more energy than Ace can.

Going by some basic physics, Aokiji handily kicks Ace's ass. But, manga is not bound by the constraints of physics, so this is all basically meaningless.

Magma is heated rock. Fire is heated air. Rock has a far higher specific heat than air does, and therefore has more energy and can melt the ice easier.

More important than the temperature change is the enthalpy of phase change, 334 J/g. That's a good 3-5 times more heat Aokiji absorbed.

On the other hand, I also just figured Entei was the 5000 K of the sun's surface, and since radiation is by the fourth power of temperature, that's 35.5 MW per m^2. And it will of course be a whole 'nother ball game if there's combustion/fusion/plasma going on in there.

I'm not going to do any more math because I'm on vacation.

I think I'm still either standing by the pokemon case or it could also just be an Ace vs. Smoker case: fire vs. smoke; heat vs. cold. I definitely don't see Aokiji freezing Ace though.

 

[Naruffy]

Forget the math, Fire beats Ice, it's as simple as that. Even if part of Ace was frozen by Aojiki (which I doubt would happen) it would melt quickly. Aojiki is powerful, if Ace's element wasn't fire, then I could see Aojiki beating him.