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xi0

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The “both sides make their claims, who are we to judge?” reflex is very powerful in politics, even if one viewpoint is objectively true and the rest are not. Expanding upon your observation, consider how 10% of Democrats are birthers. The percentage of Republicans, however? 53%. Yes, nutty Democrats do exist, but as far as the Democratic base and Democratic establishment are concerned, they're practically nonexistent; Democratic birthers and the like have steadily abandoned their party and vote Republican nowadays (e.g. West Virginia). This is the very different from the Republican field where the nutjobs compose both the base and the party.
I didn't mean people who believe the same things as republicans, I'm talking about the extreme left's version of "nutty". Of course it's a matter of perspective, but even as a Democrat, I can recognize both. But I agree, I'd don't think it's as damaging or crazy as the right's version.
 

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Republican debate tonight. Best thing about it is seeing the memes and people poke fun at the stupid things the candidates are bound to say.
 

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Rubio is on point tonight. Everyone else is too busy trying to change the discussion away from the important issues or *try* to be relevant while Rubio presents actual examples, actual results, actual support to bring America back on track [getting rid of planned parenthood, protect second amendment rights of americans, bring back military funding]. Even Trump is failing to generate as much buzz as Rubio.

 

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Advocating tighter, responsible restrictions on firearms isn't undermining the 2nd Amendment. Why are you buying into what the gun lobby is trying to feed everyone? Are you a gun enthusiast? Do you make your living by gun sales? Do you even own a gun?
 

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Advocating tighter, responsible restrictions on firearms isn't undermining the 2nd Amendment. Why are you buying into what the gun lobby is trying to feed everyone? Are you a gun enthusiast? Do you make your living by gun sales? Do you even own a gun?
If one amendment is undermined then another one will be until they all are. We need to stop it in the process. Protect the constitution.
 

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Bring back military funding? Hasn't it been at historically high levels through the obama administration?
 

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If one amendment is undermined then another one will be until they all are. We need to stop it in the process. Protect the constitution.
Where are people having their guns taken away? Do you actually listen to what Obama says on the issue, or do you only read the headlines from conservative sources? You're being played if you think this is an actual issue.

The 2nd Amendment exists so that civilians would have the right to form militias, nothing more. Of course you can't have a civilian militia if you can't own a gun, so it was interpreted with that intention. Outside of that, nothing is guaranteed. This is most definitely not a slippery slope, that's ridiculous and fear-mongering.
 

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Bring back military funding? Hasn't it been at historically high levels through the obama administration?
"bring back military funding" is Republicanese for "continue to increase the defense budget every year as drastically as possible (fuck oversight of it though) while making sure your grandmother can't afford her heart medication".
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Spending going down coincided with the end of the War in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why should spending go up when the two longest wars in our history ceased being active operations? That makes no sense.
 

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"bring back military funding" is Republicanese for "continue to increase the defense budget every year as drastically as possible (fuck oversight of it though) while making sure your grandmother can't afford her heart medication".
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Spending going down coincided with the end of the War in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why should spending go up when the two longest wars in our history ceased being active operations? That makes no sense.
So we can build new ships, research new technologies, enhance or machinary and weaponry. These are all aging, bases have buildings in poor shape, have you not seen and been on a few of our military bases, some need new construction, modern structures, better larger health centers and hospitals, etc. It costs money to invest in the future and maintain a strong military.
 

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So we can build new ships, research new technologies, enhance or machinary and weaponry. These are all aging, bases have buildings in poor shape, have you not seen and been on a few of our military bases, some need new construction, modern structures, better larger health centers and hospitals, etc. It costs money to invest in the future and maintain a strong military.
Do you actually look at how large the budget already is? How are they not able to do any of this? (if I take your word for it). If that's actually the case then they're guilty of misappropriation, not poverty.
 

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Do you actually look at how large the budget already is? How are they not able to do any of this? (if I take your word for it). If that's actually the case then they're guilty of misappropriation, not poverty.
Probably going to fund all those wasted missiles in air strikes producing no results in the middle east under obamas unlimited air strike thing. An example of needing more money, the sailors on the ship that were captured when the ship broke down, if there was more funding then the ship wouldnt have broke.

Also Rubio seems on the same page as me, exactly what I said a few posts up.
 

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And Bush didn't undermine the Constitution with the Patriot Act or anything? I'll gladly take actual privacy over not being able to go to a gun show and buy an AR-15 without a background check.
 

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And Bush didn't undermine the Constitution with the Patriot Act or anything? I'll gladly take actual privacy over not being able to go to a gun show and buy an AR-15 without a background check.
I don't understand why people are against guns. Is it gunphobia? Did they have a near death experience with them? Is that why you are so vehemently against them? I see nothing wrong with guns that they need some extra category of deep regulation of removal and banishment from law abiding Americans.
 

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bring America back on track [getting rid of planned parenthood, protect second amendment rights of americans, bring back military funding]. Even Trump is failing to generate as much buzz as Rubio.
No, that is not getting America back on track, that's hurting America and its citizens. There is no need to get rid of Planned Parenthood at all, I'd rather we invest money in that than spend billions of dollars in military that seems to be wasteful for the most part. Military funding is already there, and it's too damn high. We don't need it that high.
Advocating tighter, responsible restrictions on firearms isn't undermining the 2nd Amendment. Why are you buying into what the gun lobby is trying to feed everyone? Are you a gun enthusiast? Do you make your living by gun sales? Do you even own a gun?
Is there any indication or proof that Obama is trying to take away guns? I thought he was at first, but it seems he wants to make it harder for bad people to get guns.
So we can build new ships, research new technologies, enhance or machinary and weaponry. These are all aging, bases have buildings in poor shape, have you not seen and been on a few of our military bases, some need new construction, modern structures, better larger health centers and hospitals, etc. It costs money to invest in the future and maintain a strong military.
We spend too much on military as it is. They're given enough money to do all that, and yet if they can't, it makes one wonder what they're doing with the money.
Also Rubio seems on the same page as me, exactly what I said a few posts up.
Ironically, republicans want to take away people's freedom and make US the way they want. At least most of Obama's actions are for the betterment of the country and its people, while republicans just want to profit and help the rich profit.
I don't understand why people are against guns. Is it gunphobia? Did they have a near death experience with them? Is that why you are so vehemently against them? I see nothing wrong with guns that they need some extra category of deep regulation of removal and banishment from law abiding Americans.
People are against guns because they don't like how it kills people.

Someone tried to say meat cleavers were as dangerous when they linked me to an article where two guys went on a meat cleaver attacking spree somewhere in Asia. I facepalmed because according to the article at the time, no one died. If guns were used instead, there'd have been over 5 deaths at least.
 

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I don't understand why people are against guns. Is it gunphobia? Did they have a near death experience with them? Is that why you are so vehemently against them? I see nothing wrong with guns that they need some extra category of deep regulation of removal and banishment from law abiding Americans.
Well, there is the fact that guns have one and only actual function, which is to end someone else. Sure, you can use something else to end a fellow human being but in general those other things have other functions. Even bullets themselves are designed specifically and exclusively to maximize damage. As in causing the most damage possible. As in designed to make the target bleed, designed to spread around and make the wound harder to treat. With that in mind, why would it be a good thing for there to be as many guns as there already are? Whats the point?

And then the generally accepted fact that more guns equals more crimes. Well, at least harvard seems to think so. And guns

And even then, what Obama is doing right now would not really stop "law abiding citizens" from getting guns. What is being proposed right now merely asks for more extensive backgrounds checks so that people with criminal history or mental illness can't legally buy guns anywhere (at least as far as I can tell anyways). Isn't this what republicans actually support?
 

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Isn't this what republicans actually support?
Not when the gun lobby is involved, because they'd prefer everyone have a carry permit in order to prevent crime or some whacky idea that has no basis in reality. That teachers with guns could have prevented Sandy Hook, etc.

The Republicans who are the loudest on the 2nd Amendment are really eager to blame the people and their mental illnesses, not the actual device. They want to make this into a social welfare issue ironically, but only as long as it gets people to stop talking about the actual merchandise they sell...well, until the next mass shooting and then the same thing happens over and over again.

Listen, I'm not against the 2nd Amendment, even if I think it's plainly obvious the intention wasn't so people could pretend to be a one man army. I'm not for taking away the guns from civilians at all. I just think the business and culture has gotten way too out of hand. I'm not saying that making restrictions tighter is going to prevent crime in any major way, but if it saves a single life it's kind of worth it. Doing nothing at all in the face of the last several year's worth of incidents isn't a solution.
 

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Not when the gun lobby is involved, because they'd prefer everyone have a carry permit in order to prevent crime or some whacky idea that has no basis in reality. That teachers with guns could have prevented Sandy Hook, etc.

The Republicans who are the loudest on the 2nd Amendment are really eager to blame the people and their mental illnesses, not the actual device. They want to make this into a social welfare issue ironically, but only as long as it gets people to stop talking about the actual merchandise they sell...well, until the next mass shooting and then the same thing happens over and over again.

Listen, I'm not against the 2nd Amendment, even if I think it's plainly obvious the intention wasn't so people could pretend to be a one man army. I'm not for taking away the guns from civilians at all. I just think the business and culture has gotten way too out of hand. I'm not saying that making restrictions tighter is going to prevent crime in any major way, but if it saves a single life it's kind of worth it. Doing nothing at all in the face of the last several year's worth of incidents isn't a solution.
I meant it as "average republican". Obviously tighter controls are bad for the gun lobby but that is sort of besides the point. Republicans constantly make the point that guns are good for "law abiding citizens". Wouldn't that have the inherent implication that they support measures that prevent non law abiding citizens from getting guns? I think polls also show republicans supporting such measures. So this would be another issue where the republican party is acting specifically against the interest of their voters (Such as with net neutrality).

Maybe my perception is a little off but I was kinda under the impression that second amenders or whatever they call themselves were for the most part a bunch of drunk rednecks who don't realize guns don't beat tanks. Sort of like the guys taking over that building right now...
 

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Not when the gun lobby is involved, because they'd prefer everyone have a carry permit in order to prevent crime or some whacky idea that has no basis in reality. That teachers with guns could have prevented Sandy Hook, etc.

The Republicans who are the loudest on the 2nd Amendment are really eager to blame the people and their mental illnesses, not the actual device. They want to make this into a social welfare issue ironically, but only as long as it gets people to stop talking about the actual merchandise they sell...well, until the next mass shooting and then the same thing happens over and over again.

Listen, I'm not against the 2nd Amendment, even if I think it's plainly obvious the intention wasn't so people could pretend to be a one man army. I'm not for taking away the guns from civilians at all. I just think the business and culture has gotten way too out of hand. I'm not saying that making restrictions tighter is going to prevent crime in any major way, but if it saves a single life it's kind of worth it. Doing nothing at all in the face of the last several year's worth of incidents isn't a solution.
Why would the devices need to be blamed. Mr. Trump said it best last night.

Instead of undermining the constitution why not target things to help people feel better and more well off. If people were more well off and not pouring out their souls to taxes funding useless programs people don't care about, then there wouldnt be civic unrest. If there were no civic unrest there wouldnt be shootings. More lives are saved this way than in the way you propose. It is more logical to target making people feel better than assault an entire industry of machines. Also note where the shooting issues are prevalent, like Chicago, are democratic run places, so the democrats need to propose solutions and show results that measures can decrease shootings on the microcosm scale before they address issues on the national level.
 

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What evidence is there that gun violence in the US is related to civil unrest though? You have a few cases of mass shootings but the actual bulk of gun deaths relate to actual crimes. As in, criminals having guns. Then there is the suicide bit which is also significant here. Sure, guns don't fire themselves. However there is ample evidence that having a society with less guns is far more effective at reducing crimes and even suicides. If limiting access to guns reduces gun deaths and gun suicides... why not do it?

I also found this bit about democrat vs republican in terms of gun violence
. And another study that shows gun ownership relates to gun crimes. In essence, limiting access to guns is something that is basically proven to work as an effective measure to reduce gun crimes and suicides. It benefits everyone. Also worth noting, how is it possible to decrease gun crimes on the microcosm? That doesn't even make sense. The issue is at large widespread availability of guns. What the US has is a national problem, solutions should at large be implemented at the national level. Any measure you implement in a specific place will be almost pointless if the measure can be overcome by going to the next town or city.
 
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