American Politics

[ninjabot]

It depends? for 99% of the population biological sex and gender expression are pretty much the same thing. For roughly 1% of the population these don't match. I suppose a distinction could be reasonable in an academic setting. To me this gets weird when you get to the point where even referring to a trans woman as a trans woman is transphobic because the trans part acknowledges their biology.

Well the beauty of science is that it's not dogmatic. As we gain information, the scientific consensus changes, and so does the societal consensus. In the US it's already rapidly changing. Faster than the consensus about homosexuality did.

 

[McNuss]

To me this gets weird when you get to the point where even referring to a trans woman as a trans woman is transphobic because the trans part acknowledges their biology.

The thing is, unless you are a doctor or running a brothel, there is no need to use any other term than woman.

Trans woman is a made up word just like its predecessors, and by making up more and more and more and more words, all you do is splitting up people. Not everyone is willing to change their language, and a large chunk isn't even capable intellectually.

The thing is, this woke vs Terfs battle isn't just something unique to the US, it is happening at least here in Germany, too.

While the natural route towards acceptance of trans people should be educating people on the matter and preventing children from being bullied in school by giving them proper human rights which was proposed in the 90s but never happened, what we are doing now is splitting up society on the matter by forcibly trying to change language.

Imagine the same in a country were LGBT situation is even worse, like Jamaica or Muslim countries, people would get killed over such a debate.

This entire thing is like a nuclear bomb within the left as it puts people against each other based on their education and intellect which is very very nasty and can only be made up by some evil forces.

 

[Sanity Check]

ARS = Acute Radiation Syndrome or Radiation Poisoning. Wasn't talking about anything respiratory.

This is caused by intense gamma and neutron radiation tearing through the body, and you're dead before you know it. There's simply nothing in the Red Forest that would be capable of that.

I remember biologists following wildlife mutations in the red forest, driven by radiation.

A long time ago.

 

[kkck]

Well the beauty of science is that it's not dogmatic. As we gain information, the scientific consensus changes, and so does the societal consensus. In the US it's already rapidly changing. Faster than the consensus about homosexuality did.

Ok? This reads more like you were building up to a point and stopped halfway. can you at least point to what science you are referring to that pertains specifically to my previous post?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 1, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 1, 2022 ---

The thing is, unless you are a doctor or running a brothel, there is no need to use any other term than woman.

Trans woman is a made up word just like its predecessors, and by making up more and more and more and more words, all you do is splitting up people. Not everyone is willing to change their language, and a large chunk isn't even capable intellectually.

The thing is, this woke vs Terfs battle isn't just something unique to the US, it is happening at least here in Germany, too.

While the natural route towards acceptance of trans people should be educating people on the matter and preventing children from being bullied in school by giving them proper human rights which was proposed in the 90s but never happened, what we are doing now is splitting up society on the matter by forcibly trying to change language.

Imagine the same in a country were LGBT situation is even worse, like Jamaica or Muslim countries, people would get killed over such a debate.

This entire thing is like a nuclear bomb within the left as it puts people against each other based on their education and intellect which is very very nasty and can only be made up by some evil forces.

I mean, all words are made up. A word being made up is not really an argument against its use... I don't think the usage of this word in unreasonable for that matter. On the language front my main issue with this is that this is so damn difficult to keep up with all this and even if you do you are pretty much walking on eggshells. That said, I do at times get the impression that a sort of blowback against the trans community is building up. Every now and then I've read about LGB folk who pretty much do not want to be lumped with the T and onward folk. Maybe I am overestimating the size of this of course but I get the impression that people like people from the T and onward less and less nowadays.

 

[ninjabot]

Ok? This reads more like you were building up to a point and stopped halfway. can you at least point to what science you are referring to that pertains specifically to my previous post?

Well, you said most people think the same as you. I was pointing out most scientists don't, and if you're gonna use science as your justification for your claims, your claims are gonna have to change.

Answers to your questions about transgender people, gender identity, and gender expression

Transgender is an umbrella term used to describe people whose gender identity (sense of themselves as male or female) or gender expression differs from socially constructed norms associated with their birth sex. This includes androgynous, bigendered and gender queer people, who tend to see...

www.apa.org

Sex and gender distinction - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Unless of course, science isn't what you're using to make your claim. Or perhaps it's just old science in which case, why not accept the current consensus?

 

[M3J]

So today I found out that apparently saying "pregnant people" is... wrong to the non woke crowd? what is this lol.

The "nonwoke" crowd loves to get mad at anything and everything they don't agree with, and they like to call anyone that they don't agree with "woke." It's the same as people who claim they're not sensitive or whatnot, they're just as sensitive and whiny, if not more, than the "libtard snowflakes" they complain about.

The "anti-woke" crowd cry because they want to remain bigoted. The "woke" crowd cry because they want people to be safe and included.

Honestly, I would generally be closer to team terf than whichever other teams there are... but this is straight up how normal people speak lol. People in the US are too bored at this point if this is what they are wasting time on. There's a worldwide food security crisis looming and the government is almost cartoonishly corrupt ffs.

TERFs are just a bunch of idiots who would rather shoot themselves in the foot because of their transphobia than acknowledge that transgender women are women as well.

Proud Boys are insanely misogynistic, as well as tons of far right groups, but that won't stop these so-called feminists from joining hands with them just to oppose transgender women. They really expose themselves when they do this.

If TERFs really cared about women, were really feminists, then why would they join a group that wants to oppress these women and strip away their rights, just to oppose a vulnerable group that is not a threat? And I think in order for you to be closer to team TERF, you have to care, or pretend to care, about women in the first place. If anything, you probably support their stupid ideology.

 

[kkck]

Well, you said most people think the same as you. I was pointing out most scientists don't, and if you're gonna use science as your justification for your claims, your claims are gonna have to change.

Answers to your questions about transgender people, gender identity, and gender expression

Transgender is an umbrella term used to describe people whose gender identity (sense of themselves as male or female) or gender expression differs from socially constructed norms associated with their birth sex. This includes androgynous, bigendered and gender queer people, who tend to see...

www.apa.org

Sex and gender distinction - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Unless of course, science isn't what you're using to make your claim. Or perhaps it's just old science in which case, why not accept the current consensus?

i didn't say people think like me. i said that for 99% of people their gender matches their sex. pretty big distinction.

 

[xi0]

The entire term debate, this wokes vs terfs stuff is a scenario purposefully created by the ultra right dark side of silicon valley to destroy socialism.

And it is working.

Only conspiracy I am 100% sure about!

Who would you consider the ultra right dark side of silicon valley to be?

I remember biologists following wildlife mutations in the red forest, driven by radiation.

A long time ago.

Right, but mutations occur and are studied through genetics over time. It's not the same thing as having your cells obliterated a la Bruce Banner. Unlike in comics you don't turn green, very large and angry. You die of minor infection or internal bleeding since your blood cells and platelets are evaporated. We know from Chernobyl that the longest lived of the workers and firefighters who were closest to the reactor after the meltdown on the first day was 3 months. Nothing those Russian soldiers were doing in that forest could compare to that IMO.

 

[DeadCosmos]

Democrat Politician Maxine Waters from Democrat Los Angeles tells homeless people to go home.

 

[xi0]

It's pretty sad how it took this toolbag being obstructionist as possible to receive any real scrutiny.

 

[McNuss]

Who would you consider the ultra right dark side of silicon valley to be?

People like Peter Thiel, Robert Mercer, or not from Silicon Valley but Putin, too. I don't know how far this goes, but internet algorithms push people towards extremist positions so in a sense the majority of them is guilty and in general capitalist media moguls are somewhat right-wing but this can easily be futher abused.

The fact that the left is splitting in such a disconnected-from-reality like fashion over certain matters like gender, refugees, or climate change imho totally smells like manipulation.

Like all of these debates are basically evolving on a "how to destroy a political movement" plot.

The old get pitched against the young, the educated against the uneducated, the intellectuals against the unintellectuals, working class vs academics, total chaos, result is destruction.

I already said what should be done first and foremost in terms of transgender politics, you have to educate people on the matter and give everyone a chance of growing up safely and well. In Germany we are talking about changing our languages, while the current situation of legally changing your gender involves passing a test where you get asked stuff like how often you are jerking off...Like why not get rid of this first? Priorities are totally messed up.

And climate change, the left can easily answer who should pay for it, the rich, problem solved no need to get at each other's throat over it.

Refugees, everyone knows how the right pushes nazi-racism-pseudo-genetics. If you are interested in history for example and you watch Youtubers, first day you are suggested some mildly interesting popular science, second day you get racist eugenics it is totally messed up!

 

[xi0]

Hmm, I can sort of see your point and there's definitely influence going on there. But I think chalking up current the "culture war" as if it's unique and not just another one of those cultural watershed moments... or that it's somehow existential seems like an exaggeration. People are just so chronically online that it seems larger than it is. Reactionaries will be reactionaries and they'll be dragged into the future kicking and screaming, just like every time before.

 

[DeadCosmos]

 

[M3J]

Republicans and "anti-woke" dickheads in general

 

[ninjabot]

i didn't say people think like me. i said that for 99% of people their gender matches their sex. pretty big distinction.

I mean you just typed:

It depends? for 99% of the population biological sex and gender expression are pretty much the same thing.

When you said that sex and gender are the same thing for these people, I thought you were saying that they believe that sex and gender are the same thing. Which is what you previously said you believed.

I know that the majority of people on the planet are cisgender, but I'm not concerned with their gender expression, I'm concerned with whether or not they believe that sex and gender are the same thing and how they got to that conclusion.

Cuz it ain't scientific consensus.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2022 ---

...what are you showing us this for? Just to show how many people watch Fox News? Fox News has been the number 1 news channel for like... 20 of it's 25 years on the air. That's nothing new.

 

[shionoro]

Culture wars are not new, but how they are used is new. They are used to divide people that would usually not be divided among ideological lines.
It is much more common than it used to be for friendships to end over political arguments or for people who have 90% the same views to struggle against each other endlessly.

And that is a powerful tool if you want to divide and distract a society. If a society would rather talk about whether white people may wear dreads or not than about unionbuilding or climate change, that is very helpful to people who want to prevent these issues from being talked about.

Similarly, of course, if you create fights that do not need to happen and take the winning stance, the majority that sees things your way is more likely to vote for you because that topic supercedes the issues that they might not agree with you on.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2022 ---

One quick thing because it really bugs me and comes up a lot:

Definitions are different from facts. Scientists using a common definition for something does not mean "that is the only correct way to refer to it", because a definition is just that, a word that refers to something.

For example, if you define a woman differently from how science defines a woman, that is fine, you are using a different definition. Just like there is a scientific definition for the word "dimension" (or rather, several) and nobody uses that when they use that word.

One and the same word can have many different meanings, and just because science settled for one does not mean the others are wrong.

For example, the definition of racism changed (and there still is not just one of them). In prior times, racism was defined by thinking one race is superior to another. Today, we'd also see it as racism if a race is discriminated against by things that have no such intent.
Both definitions are valid, and both are used, and people then fight about which is right, which is stupid. There are good reasons for science to switch to the latter, just like there are good reasons for people to distinguish between these definitions of racism or sometimes use one, then the other.

A scientific definition is NOT a scientific fact. If you see a woman only as people who are born as a woman, that has nothing to do with anti science just because science does not. That is even true if you see homosexuality as a disease or vice versa see ADHD as just being an energetic kid without coining it as disease.

We come closer to the truth when we use scientific facts, like there being people that definitely experience gender dismorphia and suffer greatly from it and suffer much less if they are allowed to live as the other gender. These can be factually stated.
However, "what is a woman" is a question of definition and that is something that cannot be proven or disproven.

 

[M3J]

...what are you showing us this for? Just to show how many people watch Fox News? Fox News has been the number 1 news channel for like... 20 of it's 25 years on the air. That's nothing new.

I think his intention was to point out the irony of Fox News/Tucker saying the channel is all about freedom of speech, but they turned off comments for their YouTube video. Meaning they aren't the freedom of speech network.

 

[ninjabot]

I think his intention was to point out the irony of Fox News/Tucker saying the channel is all about freedom of speech, but they turned off comments for their YouTube video. Meaning they aren't the freedom of speech network.

Ohhhh... that makes sense. The numbers were inside the circle too and were the first thing I saw lol.

 

[M3J]

Ohhhh... that makes sense. The numbers were inside the circle too and were the first thing I saw lol.

I mean, we could both be right, but in this case, the picture perfectly shows the hypocrisy of the right and of "anti-woke/boo snowflakes" people.

 

[shionoro]

It would be a more worthwhile debate to talk about what free speech actually is and what freedom means in the context of speech.