American Politics

[shionoro]

Lol, ya think?

It's not something that can't be corrected with a new, sane president. Provided our neighbors to the north and south don't try to force us to OVER correct for Trump's fuckery and start getting exploitative in their requests.

It was that way with Brexit. Conventional wisdom would imply that the business leaders would never back brexit because it was clear that it would hurt british economy. Yet, the richest billionaires in Britain backed it (including some rich people in the US). Because something that is bad for the economy of a nation can still benefit very powerful people that get enables to either buy destroyed assets for cheap or have invested in just the right assets that profit from that carnage.

And sadly not everything can get easily reversed (Brexit being a good example). Even if Canada, Mexico or the EU have no illwill against the US, it is just wise for them to not trust the US as much they did in the past, which includes seeking more economic and strategic independence from them.

 

[Newkerzy]

And sadly not everything can get easily reversed (Brexit being a good example). Even if Canada, Mexico or the EU have no illwill against the US, it is just wise for them to not trust the US as much they did in the past, which includes seeking more economic and strategic independence from them.

Funny thing. I went to a class in the Netherlands where they invited the ex-PM of their country and we discussed Brexit. This happened in 2017, mind you. When I asked if they would welcome the UK if they wanted back in and changes their minds, he unequivocally said yes.

But given how long that’s passed, I don’t think they would be very welcoming anymore. Sure, they’d be happy if this happened. But not before dog-walking the UK first, maybe.

 

[shionoro]

Funny thing. I went to a class in the Netherlands where they invited the ex-PM of their country and we discussed Brexit. This happened in 2017, mind you. When I asked if they would welcome the UK if they wanted back in and changes their minds, he unequivocally said yes.

But given how long that’s passed, I don’t think they would be very welcoming anymore. Sure, they’d be happy if this happened. But not before dog-walking the UK first, maybe.

I do think the EU would take Britain back relatively easily. But these things do not happen overnight and need a lot of preparation. First, there would need to be clear and lasting support for it among the British society.

It is true that Britain's conditions would be worse after rejoining tho, because they had some special privileges back then. But it would still be very helpful for both factions economically.

 

[xi0]

Meaning it's more "Democrats bad" lately than "America bad". You're saying your argument will be dismissed as reductive. And I clarified that Libs aren't reducing your concerns to only one argument.

It's two! Two arguments!

I'm joking though.

In the context of foreign policy, it's still an "America" thing and not a Democrat thing. Domestically it's very obvious who is better for "us", but for the rest of the world the dynamic isn't the same.

 

[ninjabot]

I don't think you are necessarily wrong, in that situation it's by no means unreasonable for people to want to leave. But that leaves the question of what the heck government policy is supposed to be. Should the US go "yeah, let those who survive come, fuck the ones that don't"?

I unironically believe this is a more moral stance than "Do not come."

Poverty absolutely leads to crime but at the same time that crime breeds more poverty, it's a vicious, unforgiving cycle. let alone that all this crime infects politics which in turn breeds crime and poverty.

So should America pull the world police card and just drop the G.I. Joe into these countries to wage fully armed ground wars on the cartels? What do you recommend? Because all I'm saying is if these people want a better life and they're willing to risk their lives to get it, they shouldn't be sent back or imprisoned for it. They've fought harder to be an American than any/every American I know, including my unpatriotic ass.

 

[kkck]

I unironically believe this is a more moral stance than "Do not come."



So should America pull the world police card and just drop the G.I. Joe into these countries to wage fully armed ground wars on the cartels? What do you recommend? Because all I'm saying is if these people want a better life and they're willing to risk their lives to get it, they shouldn't be sent back or imprisoned for it. They've fought harder to be an American than any/every American I know, including my unpatriotic ass.

There's quite a jump between "remove incentives for illegal immigration" (which is what I've been saying for a while) and basically invading mexico and further south. What I am saying is that migration like this doesn't happen in a bubble, it's a shitshow for every country on the way to the US. Not incentivizing illegal immigration and incentivizing legal immigration can only make things better (the flaw with trump of course in this regard is that he certainly does not give a crap about the issue beyond stopping people from coming in).

 

[ninjabot]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/04/politics/netanyahu-trump-white-house-meeting/index.html

President Donald Trump said Tuesday that the US “will take over” the Gaza Strip, after saying earlier that he doesn’t think there is a permanent future for Palestinians in Gaza.

“The US will take over the Gaza Strip and we will do a job with it too,” Trump said during a joint press conference alongside his Israeli counterpart Benjamin Netanyahu. “We’ll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site, level the site and get rid of the destroyed buildings.”

Speaking earlier Tuesday, Trump suggested Gazans move to a new location provided by one or more nations in the Middle East.

“I mean they’re there because they have no alternative. What do they have? It is a big pile of rubble right now,” Trump said moments before hosting Netanyahu for Oval Office talks.

Trump’s suggestion that Gazans leave the strip permanently amounts to a provocative stance that will endear him to Israel’s most conservative politicians but is generally a non-starter for Israel’s neighbors, who have said they are unwilling to accept new Palestinian refugees from the enclave.

On Tuesday, Trump framed the matter as a humanitarian one, saying it was impossible to believe anyone would want to remain in the war-torn territory.

“Why would they want to return? The place has been hell,” Trump said, ignoring a reporter who cried out: “Because it’s their home.”

No difference! No difference between Biden and Trump. The same thing will happen in Gaza, why bother voting? At least a vote for Trump would make Democrats think twice about taking our votes for granted! Even if I don't vote Trump, I just can't vote for someone who's pro-genocide so I won't vote at all. I want to be able to sleep at night!

Terrible, horrible, stupid, stupid people.

EDIT: I dunno why I'm shitting on Leftists for this. They couldn't have won Kamala the election because there wouldn't have been enough Leftists to offset all the other demographics she couldn't get to vote for her. Still, ridiculous beliefs deserve ridicule.

 

[shionoro]

It is really alarming that, for now, Democrats have no coherent message except "hahaha now you're gonna get it because you didn't like us!".

 

[ninjabot]

It is really alarming that, for now, Democrats have no coherent message except "hahaha now you're gonna get it because you didn't like us!".

We have a message, and its the same one before the election: we're not Trump. They either don't like the world that their complacency has contributed to and they'll vote against it in the next 4 years, or they deserve more of the same. More ridicule, more tarrif wars, more genocide, more deportations, more botched back-alley abortions, more MAGA.

They can grow the fuck up or they can get used to fascism.

 

[kkck]

Trump has been president barely a month... It's pretty clear democrats won't come up with a spine in that time. Let alone an agenda and actual policies to fight for and implement. Even if they did there's not much they can do in the mid term... and until after the midterms.

 

[M3J]

going by Twitter, Democrats are seriously some of the dumbest fucking people I've seen, and I've come across tons of Trump cultists. The entitlement is wild, especially when Harris did not really earn the votes, Even now they're still blaming the left and goading Palestinians and their supporters gleefully.

Why the hell would you burn your bridges? Why would you make your party look as bad as the Republicans'? Clinton and Harris fucked up campaigning badly, and in Harris's case, she thought parading Cheney's support and going for moderate republicans would help but look at what happened.

As it stands, AOC and Jasmine Crockett seem to be the only good Dems in the party.

 

[shionoro]

We have a message, and its the same one before the election: we're not Trump. They either don't like the world that their complacency has contributed to and they'll vote against it in the next 4 years, or they deserve more of the same. More ridicule, more tarrif wars, more genocide, more deportations, more botched back-alley abortions, more MAGA.

They can grow the fuck up or they can get used to fascism.

Well, that just means you are going to lose.

 

[ninjabot]

Well, that just means you are going to lose.

I know. That's why I said "get used to fascism". I'm under no delusion that these people have learned their lesson yet, based on their tweets. Look at the responses of people like Bryanna Joy Gray and Emma Vigeland.

Emma claims it's Dems fault because "Dems couldn't communicate the threat of Trump on this issue because they were helping commit a genocide." Let that sink in. WE made Leftists not understand that Trump was gonna make things worse for Gaza, because Biden didn't end the genocide.

That's weaponized ignorance at best. All we DID was communicate that Trump was the worst choice for EVERYONE, and these fucking speds ignored us. I dunno what extra chromosome leads to this level of brain rot, but Darwin'll take care of it. These cretins will vote themselves out of existence by granting power to the people that want them all dead or deported.

What to know about El Salvador's mega-prison after Trump deal to send people there

The Trump administration and the president of El Salvador said Monday that they'd struck a deal allowing the U.S. to ship both detained migrants and imprisoned citizens to the tiny Central American na...

www.yahoo.com

One way trip to an El Salvadorian prison next time someone immolates a police car in protest.

 

[shionoro]

I know. That's why I said "get used to fascism". I'm under no delusion that these people have learned their lesson yet, based on their tweets. Look at the responses of people like Bryanna Joy Gray and Emma Vigeland.

Emma claims it's Dems fault because "Dems couldn't communicate the threat of Trump on this issue because they were helping commit a genocide." Let that sink in. WE made Leftists not understand that Trump was gonna make things worse for Gaza, because Biden didn't end the genocide.

That's weaponized ignorance at best. All we DID was communicate that Trump was the worse choice for EVERYONE, and these fucking speds ignored us. I dunno what extra chromosome leads to this level of brain rot, but Darwin'll take care of it. These cretins will vote themselves out of existence by granting power to the people that want them all dead or deported.

Who the fuck except democrats that are trying to deflect blame cares for these some thousand tankies that are loud on twitter? They did not decide the election, yet they are all democrats are talking about right now. Because they got nothing else to say.

We are looking at a real time fascist takeover. That is a catastrophic situation. The moment right now for democrats would be to try to join up with anyone who is willing and able to resist against that, civil movements, unions, activists, whoever. And find a common message and hope that midterms will still bhe fair enough to take some of the power back. That way, and only that way, they could inspire trust and fighting spirit in people.

Right now, all I can see is a rambling, limp-dicked mess that would rather cry about a handful of activists than find a common message with people like the anti-deportation movement that protests right now. "we are not trump" is not a message. If that is the best they can do, it is time for anyone who can to leave the country and for those who can't to prep.

 

[M3J]

Ninjabot is the perfect representation of the mistakes Dems have been making and continue to make. Keeps blaming everyone but the Dems, is the same person that kept saying Harris shouldn't do what the left want (which is fucking stupid given Dems need the left) but then whines that the left didn't vote for someone who didn't give a shit about them, and is gloating about what Palestinians and their supporters are going through, as if the same wasn't already happening under Biden, and as if Harris didn't make it clear she supports Israel.

And this is coming from someone who doesn't agree with some leftists that the candidate has to be perfect, and voted for Harris as well knowing she's better than Trump regardless. Dems' crashing out played beautifully into the Republicans' hands.

 

[ninjabot]

Who the fuck except democrats that are trying to deflect blame cares for these some thousand tankies that are loud on twitter? They did not decide the election, yet they are all democrats are talking about right now. Because they got nothing else to say.

The entire rightwing political spectrum, the majority of straight white men in America, and all the people that voted for Trump instead of Kamala (but not for Gaza reasons), that's fucking who. Did you know the Republican party is considered the party of the working class right now? Men are becoming more and more right wing, and it's NOT because Democrats are scaring them away. It's because some fucking Socialist tried to get them fired from their job for calling a coworker a retard. Or some teenage NB on twitter called them racist for saying that Miles Morales 'wasn't their Spider-Man".

We are looking at a real time fascist takeover. That is a catastrophic situation. The moment right now for democrats would be to try to join up with anyone who is willing and able to resist against that, civil movements, unions, activists, whoever. And find a common message and hope that midterms will still bhe fair enough to take some of the power back. That way, and only that way, they could inspire trust and fighting spirit in people.

Fuck anyone that thinks it's the Democrats that need to prostrate themselves before these losers, instead of the other way around. You don't negotiate with terrorists.

And that is a double entendre.

Right now, all I can see is a rambling, limp-dicked mess that tries to would rather cry about a handful of activists than find a common message with people like the anti-deportation movement that protests right now. "we are not trump" is not a message. If that is the best they can do, it is time for anyone who can to leave the country and for those who can't to prep.

If "we are not Trump" isn't good enough for you, then you're not desperate enough yet. But that's cool. Cause you will be.

 

[shionoro]

@ninjabot

I will answer to the other points later, but I will be gone for some days before I can reply. So only this much:

If "we are not Trump" isn't good enough for you, then you're not desperate enough yet. But that's cool. Cause you will be.

Which country did that ever work in? That sure didnt work after Brexit. There were several horrible Tory governments nobody liked, Labour lost an election (partially becomes moderate forces in labor sabotaged their own leftist candidate), Britain suffered by huge amounts and poverty is starting to stagger.

Now they elect a moderate Labour government (Starmer) and he does not deliver, his popularity sinks down https://www.statista.com/statistics/911008/leader-satisfaction-uk/ and you can pretty safely say that the next government will be tory or even more rightwing.

Getting people desperate and calling them names is not going to help you win, because desperate people are less likely to vote. Inspired people are likely to vote, and crying over some activists for not liking you does not inspire anyone.

I mean, it is not my country, but if you do not want a fascist powergrab, you should reflect about your own strategy more than about some leftist pundits that annoy you.

 

[ninjabot]

Which country did that ever work in? That sure didnt work after Brexit. There were several horrible Tory governments nobody liked, Labour lost an election (partially becomes moderate forces in labor sabotaged their own leftist candidate), Britain suffered by huge amounts and poverty is starting to stagger.

Now they elect a moderate Labour government (Starmer) and he does not deliver, his popularity sinks down https://www.statista.com/statistics/911008/leader-satisfaction-uk/ and you can pretty safely say that the next government will be tory or even more rightwing.

The same plan applies: if the person they voted for this time resulted in a UK that they hate, then they vote for the opposite of that.

Getting people desperate and calling them names is not going to help you win, because desperate people are less likely to vote. Inspired people are likely to vote, and crying over some activists for not liking you does not inspire anyone.

There are only so many different ways I can say that people deserve whatever they vote for, or fail to vote against. When did personal agency stop being a virtue?

I mean, it is not my country, but if you do not want a fascist powergrab, you should reflect about your own strategy more than about some leftist pundits that annoy you.

We've already got a fascist power grab. It's time for people to ask themselves how they feel about that. Are they enjoying it? They don't like it? They don't vote for it next time. No games, no fantasies, no extortion, no thinking you can get more by blackmailing other voters via withholding your vote, just vote against the thing you don't want.

It's really that simple.

Bad thing Bad? No want? No vote for man who do Bad Thing. Vote for Good Man.

Good Man not Perfect Man? Vote Good Man anyway. Perfect better than Good. But Good still better than Bad.

Only want Perfect Man? Be grown up. Be Not Selfish. Vote Good Man so no Bad Thing for friends and family.

 

[M3J]

Getting people desperate and calling them names is not going to help you win, because desperate people are less likely to vote. Inspired people are likely to vote, and crying over some activists for not liking you does not inspire anyone.

I mean, it is not my country, but if you do not want a fascist powergrab, you should reflect about your own strategy more than about some leftist pundits that annoy you.

Let's not forget the fact that leftists for over a year have been telling Biden and Harris what they want and being ignored, and for years they've seen Biden refuse to honor his promises like cancelling student loans and keep protecting us from covid. Biden and Harris refused to listen to the left during the campaign, and they did not earn the leftists' votes (haven't earned it since 2012 tbh), so it's wild that the voters and Dems keep blaming everyone but themselves.

Not to mention, you have Dem pundits like destiny who were further alienating the left with their bullshit and constantly being wrong on things, which didn't help.

I mean, Harris didn't even try to lie about ending the genocide and trying to get a ceasefire going, she just flat out said she supported Israel's right to "self-defense" even when Israel was the aggressor towards others. Regardless of what Dems say, it's a fact that they're the ones who fucked up, not the left. When history looks back on 2024, they'll see how Dems consistently kept messing up and caused their own loss.

"We're not Trump" was a horrible slogan to repeat for 2024, especially when Biden continued a lot of Trump's policies.

 

[xi0]

There's quite a jump between "remove incentives for illegal immigration" (which is what I've been saying for a while) and basically invading mexico and further south. What I am saying is that migration like this doesn't happen in a bubble, it's a shitshow for every country on the way to the US. Not incentivizing illegal immigration and incentivizing legal immigration can only make things better (the flaw with trump of course in this regard is that he certainly does not give a crap about the issue beyond stopping people from coming in).

The issue is that "remove incentives for illegal immigration" requires changing how this country works economically or paying a living wage for jobs no citizen wants to do. Democrats can't even raise the federal minimum wage when they're in power.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 5, 2025, Original Post Date: Feb 5, 2025 ---

No difference! No difference between Biden and Trump. The same thing will happen in Gaza, why bother voting? At least a vote for Trump would make Democrats think twice about taking our votes for granted! Even if I don't vote Trump, I just can't vote for someone who's pro-genocide so I won't vote at all. I want to be able to sleep at night!

Terrible, horrible, stupid, stupid people.

If we think for a second hypothetically - if the Israeli government suggested a plan such as this without any input from an American president, and that president was instead Harris or Biden, or anyone else considered mainstream, what do you think their reaction would be? They'd condemn it perhaps, but what would they do to prevent it? What would they be willing to do? What was Biden willing to do to stop the massacre when he was in office? Maybe half-way stern words and cussing them out behind closed doors. What did the previous administration demonstrate that would make someone believe it wasn't headed in this sort of direction anyway? I'm asking honestly.

Because of course Trump is a soulless ghoul and would off-the-cuff say something as monstrous as he did. But do we really think Biden or Harris actually think any differently?

I mean, maybe it's like you said, both bad so who cares, vote for who is best for us. That's fine. Not arguing against that. But despair on this issue exists for a reason.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 5, 2025 ---

"Socialist activists" who took some sort of moral standing are not the reason we're in the position we are right now