American Politics

[ninjabot]

Hmmm, I forget, wasn't that in relation to kamala's bid at the presidency?

Yep.

Because otherwise there's a lot of things the party could do in the span of months or years to change. They could start by rounding up their marketing department and whoever does their internal pooling and catapult them to Mexico.

Agreed.

Then they could up their messaging, specially on the internet where republicans are ahead for some unconscionable reason.

Yeah, there's rumblings this is in the works. A liberal Daily Wire-style media company, though that was back when Destiny wasn't known as an E-Rapist and was King Liberal. Hopefully everyone he was pooling together for this is moving on without him to run with the idea. It's all the biggest Liberal content creators from Youtube.

Republicans are ahead in messaging for the reasons I mentioned to you a few months back: podcasts and all other things that men are interested in is right-wing coded nowadays, so media concerning these things are right-wing coded. Stand-up comedy, health and fitness, sports, guns, outdoorsmanship, self-defense... basically, anything that's considered masculine. Democrats gotta find a way to cater to men.

Acknowledging that the stock market doing well is not the same thing as the country doing well would be nice. Taking economic policy positions that prioritize the middle class would be nice.

Agreed to both.

 

[kkck]

Yep.



Agreed.



Yeah, there's rumblings this is in the works. A liberal Daily Wire-style media company, though that was back when Destiny wasn't known as an E-Rapist and was King Liberal. Hopefully everyone he was pooling together for this is moving on without him to run with the idea. It's all the biggest Liberal content creators from Youtube.

Republicans are ahead in messaging for the reasons I mentioned to you a few months back: podcasts and all other things that men are interested in is right-wing coded nowadays, so media concerning these things are right-wing coded. Stand-up comedy, health and fitness, sports, guns, outdoorsmanship, self-defense... basically, anything that's considered masculine. Democrats gotta find a way to cater to men.



Agreed to both.

They also need to find a way to cater to women.

 

[ninjabot]

Well yeah, but women already vote left more than men do, so I don't see that as too big of an issue that needs fixing. That'd be like saying Democrats need to find a way to cater to black people. That's still a lock that's diminishing too slow to be considered a problem.

 

[kkck]

Well yeah, but women already vote left more than men do, so I don't see that as too big of an issue that needs fixing. That'd be like saying Democrats need to find a way to cater to black people. That's still a lock that's diminishing too slow to be considered a problem.

Hmmm, from what I've read about the past elections women didn't exactly show up to vote for kamala in droves. If anything the party gap was pretty marginal. And this after democrats of all genders spent the better part of last year screaming hysterically how roe v wade being overturned meant women's rights were over (pro tip, telling nearly half of all women that they are evil nazis for not agreeing with abortion when even democrats have a wide range of views of it is probably bad politics). Democrats have zero capacity to engage with anyone like a normal ass human being.

 

[M3J]

According to this, more white women voted for republicans than they did for democrats. They didn't show up for Harris and for some reason voted against their own interest.

 

[shionoro]

The only end that matters when dealing with fascism is to keep the fascists out of power. Don't lose sight imagining some magical paradise where all of your political aspirations are achieved, because it's impossible in this political climate. Realistic advocacy instead of pipe dreams.

Not to offset what Trump has broken. Not to fix everything. To keep everything afloat until it CAN be fixed. In increments. Or at least that's what was necessary before he started using rapid-fire executive orders. But those can be reversed with other executive orders.

As for what Biden did: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/biden-promise-tracker/?ruling=true

Biden has kept 28% of his promises, and broke 3%.
Compromised on 10%
32% was stalled
and 24% are in the works.

I linked that back in October so I'm sure things have changed but this is why I don't care about your criticism. It's not constructive and ignores the attempts made by Democrats in order to maintain a constant bitchfest about them not being perfect.

Yes, but you can only keep fascists out of power if you have a strong democratic civil society. If the opposition to fascism is just "we don't want fascism, sadly every other option is pathetic too", you are not going to beat fascism. That is the point here, what democrats are doing right now with their "told you so" strategy is not going to work. Ever. The pipe dream is to think that being a bad option but calling the other option worse is a valid strategy. It leads to weakness and then leads to failure.

Biden keeping his promises does not matter. He was an electorally successful but weak president who only got into power because trump tripped over covid. what he promised was not enough for voters, so what he accomplished was not enough either. Biden did not get into office because Americans liked what he offered. And the same goes for all the democratic senators who got in via "we need to stop trump" (like in Georgia). How do you expect someone as weak as that to fight back against tech fueled fascism? They could never, because they do not have real legimacy.

xi0 didn't vote for Kamala, and leftists don't generally vote.

Also, Leftists don't need to trust me for them to vote Democrat, I need them to be afraid of destroying their lives and the lives of minorities around them. This isn't a "Us vs. Them" argument. This is a "Them vs. Them" argument.

Okay, I did not know that. As I said, in all my life, I always voted leftwing parties (that were big enough to get in) every election I was offered and encouraged other people to vote even if they didnt like the options presented.

The point is: If you are going to scare them, they will be afraid and hostile towards you, not towards the people who you want them to be scared of. If you wanna get anywhere, you have to be the person they can go to when they are scared, if you want to be a political leader. Trump is gonna scare a lot of people just fine, starting with Latinos right now. If democrats then behave super obnoxiously to everyone who is personally impacted by Trump, what they accomplish is to waste that chance to regain the trust of Latino voters (which would lead to a legitimate power base, TRUST, not just temporary outrage).

Even the people who do not vote are very valuable in their criticism, because if you incorporate that criticism, your party gets stronger. That is not some kind of wishful thinking, that is just how politics and democracy works. In short: Trump understands very well what the people who vote for him want. And democrats do not listen to the groups who would potentially vote for them if they are annoying. Listening is a lot better than blaming if you want to win power back, especially if you want to keep it for more than one meaningless term.

 

[M3J]

Leftists generally vote when they're given good reasons to. Biden kept doing damage after damage, and it doesn't help that he could have passed executive orders like Trump did in his first few days to carry out some of his promises. Dude did not try to do that, and on top of Dems not codifying Roe v Wade (for whatever reason), leftists did not see them as any better or worth supporting.

Democrats did not earn the votes, their only message was "Trump is worse!" but didn't offer or weren't loud enough in their solutions. Harris had momentum when Biden stepped down, as we saw, but she and Biden hurt the momentum.

As I said though, Dems are going to have to work 100x harder after their crashout, if they want leftists' votes after making horrible comments.

 

[shionoro]

@M3J

Generally, I do not think people who would call themselves Leftists ever decide an election by numbers. The following of Bernie Sanders was not majorly people who would be super woke or left or activists, it was people who were convinced by what he said. That was true with Obama too.

The people who are very outspoken on any issue are usually not huge in numbers, but they are bellweather tests. If you make a certain demographic (like Magas) ecstatic, that is a good sign you have some reach into the people who are a little maga sometimes. And of course, that enthusiasm multiplies.

There is no enthusiasm about "we suck but are better than Trump on some issues you might care about". There is enthusiasm about "yes we can" or "not me, us".

I can wholeheartedly vote for a party that does some things I do not like but that I trust to do the right thing on most issues. But it is hard to get excited for a party that I cannot trust just because it does some things that somewhat align with my worldview. And Democrats refuse to earn that trust.

And I am not saying that to bash democrats. If you would give me the choice to hack off my own arm to get Biden or Harris a second term right now, I promise I'd do it. And I mean, that I am really scared of what is to come. I want democrats to win. But I know they have to be a strong party with honest, honorable leaders to win and they are just not that party (yet). Regrettably. So criticism is necessary until they understand hopefully understand that and sane, honest people get more of a voice inside that party.

 

[M3J]

Sadly at this point, I think Democrats are deaf to criticisms because they can get away with blaming anyone as long as their supporters are still there.

I honestly would rather have Dems in charge over republicans, but I don't see that happening anytime soon anymore unless Trump really seriously horribly fucks up so badly that even his cultists stop supporting him.

Bernie Sanders's followers encompassed the left and the right as well, shockingly. He was presented problems and offered solutions (or told us what we wanted to hear), so that helped him gain so much traction.

I'm excited to see Jasmine Crockett though, and what she does.

 

[shionoro]

Yes I do not think people like Nancy Pelosi are able to really grasp what is up. But the Democrats right now are in a phase of total weakness and lack of leadership. That is a situation in which I can see someone like Bernie Sanders or AOC stepping up and the party simply accepting it without much of a fight.

They wouldnt do that right after Obama when they felt strong. They were more ready to accept the left movement when Biden's term came. But now I could see them willing to try something new if a Leftist person shows at least soem buzz around them as a chance to turn things around.

So I think the time now is to look for the energy necessary to do that rather than to keep blaming democrats.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2025, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2025 ---

The Safeguard American Voter Eligibility (SAVE) Act has been reintroduced in the U.S. House of Representatives. This legislation would require all Americans to prove their citizenship status by presenting documentation—in person—when registering to vote or updating their voter registration information. Specifically, the legislation would require the vast majority of Americans to rely on a passport or birth certificate to prove their citizenship. While this may sound easy for many Americans, the reality is that more than 140 million American citizens do not possess a passport and as many as 69 million women who have taken their spouse’s name do not have a birth certificate matching their legal name.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-save-act-would-disenfranchise-millions-of-citizens/

As I said, unfortunately it is not clear to me whether you guys will still have free elections for long. The Save act cannot be passed without 60 Senate votes, but it is not improbable that Trump abolishes the Filibuster and gets it passed with a simple majority.

After all, if you get this act passed, it is unlikely democrats ever win again.

I do think that only severe pressure from the public can really stop this from happening, that is why I would want democrats and other leading figures to join the ranks of protestors, unions and NGOs to find a common front.

 

[kkck]

Hmmm, my read of the situation is that voting ID laws are not unpopular in the US. At least, no sufficiently unpopular anyways. The past decade has had republicans wanting to pass voter ID laws and democrat's screaming "NOOO THAT'S RACIST" with zero that acknowledgement there's non racist reasons to want these (even if/when making the case that these won't make elections safer). So democrats have two options:

1.- Convince enough people that voter ID laws are unnecessary (and racist). Which requires them being sufficiently competent at politics to say words without getting more people to support trump.

2.- Propose non racist ways to implement voter ID laws (which yes, won't do much). Which is adjacent enough to competent governance to be a completely unrealistic expectation of a party that was lead by a potato a mere few weeks ago.

 

[shionoro]

Hmmm, my read of the situation is that voting ID laws are not unpopular in the US. At least, no sufficiently unpopular anyways. The past decade has had republicans wanting to pass voter ID laws and democrat's screaming "NOOO THAT'S RACIST" with zero that acknowledgement there's non racist reasons to want these (even if/when making the case that these won't make elections safer). So democrats have two options:

1.- Convince enough people that voter ID laws are unnecessary (and racist). Which requires them being sufficiently competent at politics to say words without getting more people to support trump.

2.- Propose non racist ways to implement voter ID laws (which yes, won't do much). Which is adjacent enough to competent governance to be a completely unrealistic expectation of a party that was lead by a potato a mere few weeks ago.

The best option would be to do it like in any other country and just give every citizen who turns 16 a passport. I know that is a complex change, but it'd be great.

However, this obviously goes beyond just policy considerations. Democrats have many faults, but they are not at fault for a Republican power grab like that trying to skew the elections forever. The first reaction here should be heavy resistance and calling out how it would skew the elections even in favor of men over women, only the second reaction should be to seek for better options than the status quo.

 

[kkck]

The best option would be to do it like in any other country and just give every citizen who turns 16 a passport. I know that is a complex change, but it'd be great.

However, this obviously goes beyond just policy considerations. Democrats have many faults, but they are not at fault for a Republican power grab like that trying to skew the elections forever. The first reaction here should be heavy resistance and calling out how it would skew the elections even in favor of men over women, only the second reaction should be to seek for better options than the status quo.

Definitely. The majority of countries have these anyways. Which most people can just google (which is not to say they do though). As in, literal shithole countries have fully implemented voter ID laws and yet people are expected to believe that there isn't a path to this in the US that does not involve racism.

I disagree, democrats are absolutely at fault here. Democrats got an insane turnout in the 2020 elections that got trump kicked out of office. 4 years of biden's presidency later voters see trump crushing biden in every pool (let alone that even through his presidency biden was consistently less popular than trump) and just... don't show up to vote. Biden's presidency and kamala's run at it turned disgust in trump into apathy. Other major figures in the party did nothing to help.

 

[shionoro]

Definitely. The majority of countries have these anyways. Which most people can just google (which is not to say they do though). As in, literal shithole countries have fully implemented voter ID laws and yet people are expected to believe that there isn't a path to this in the US that does not involve racism.

I disagree, democrats are absolutely at fault here. Democrats got an insane turnout in the 2020 elections that got trump kicked out of office. 4 years of biden's presidency later voters see trump crushing biden in every pool (let alone that even through his presidency biden was consistently less popular than trump) and just... don't show up to vote. Biden's presidency and kamala's run at it turned disgust in trump into apathy. Other major figures in the party did nothing to help.

Definitely, Democrats are at fault for that. Tho I do not support blaming Democrats for what Republicans are doing right now.

The biggest problem to me right now is the apathy in American civil society while so many outrageworthy things happen. Of course, democrat have a part to play in that, but still that is the big problem to solve.

 

[kkck]

Definitely, Democrats are at fault for that. Tho I do not support blaming Democrats for what Republicans are doing right now.

The biggest problem to me right now is the apathy in American civil society while so many outrageworthy things happen. Of course, democrat have a part to play in that, but still that is the big problem to solve.

Democrats are absolute at fault for at some part of it. Their focus on identity politics instead of economic policy and governance is at least part of what has gotten a good chunk of the population mad. While the middle class has gotten increasingly poor in the US democrats have been in a 20 year long social justice circlejerk. Which is not to say social justice is a bad thing but to a majority of folk paying their mortgages or even at a theoretical level being able to get one matters more. The bulk of what trump is doing probably won't help solve these issues of course (maga perception aside, trump simply isn't a governance or policy candidate, best case scenario is he accidentally fixing something so far since unlike democrats he at least tries to change something) but democrats have done very little to address the needs of huge chunks of the population.

 

[M3J]

Yes I do not think people like Nancy Pelosi are able to really grasp what is up. But the Democrats right now are in a phase of total weakness and lack of leadership. That is a situation in which I can see someone like Bernie Sanders or AOC stepping up and the party simply accepting it without much of a fight.

They wouldnt do that right after Obama when they felt strong. They were more ready to accept the left movement when Biden's term came. But now I could see them willing to try something new if a Leftist person shows at least soem buzz around them as a chance to turn things around.

So I think the time now is to look for the energy necessary to do that rather than to keep blaming democrats.

I think the party would fight against Bernie and AOC as they're too left for them and could chase away donors. If Dems genuinely cared about winning, then they would not have made the stupid mistake of appealing to moderates and republicans, they'd have kept going for the left and liberals. The main reason why I think they were ready to accept the left during Biden's campaign was because they knew they'd need the left to win, especially when Clinton lost the electoral.

It'll be interesting to see what Democrats from here, especially since they have to start mending bridges they burned if they want to have any chance.

 

[shionoro]

Democrats are absolute at fault for at some part of it. Their focus on identity politics instead of economic policy and governance is at least part of what has gotten a good chunk of the population mad. While the middle class has gotten increasingly poor in the US democrats have been in a 20 year long social justice circlejerk. Which is not to say social justice is a bad thing but to a majority of folk paying their mortgages or even at a theoretical level being able to get one matters more. The bulk of what trump is doing probably won't help solve these issues of course (maga perception aside, trump simply isn't a governance or policy candidate, best case scenario is he accidentally fixing something so far since unlike democrats he at least tries to change something) but democrats have done very little to address the needs of huge chunks of the population.

Trump is not going to fix anything. Trump is leading this country towards an oligarchy without free elections. I find it strange that people chose to talk more about democrat failings than republicans tossing the country into collapse.

As it stands now, the US is an authoritarian state by 2028. Whatever democrats did wrong: The talking point should be how to fight back against that, not what democrats might have done wrong in the past.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 15, 2025, Original Post Date: Feb 15, 2025 ---

I think the party would fight against Bernie and AOC as they're too left for them and could chase away donors. If Dems genuinely cared about winning, then they would not have made the stupid mistake of appealing to moderates and republicans, they'd have kept going for the left and liberals. The main reason why I think they were ready to accept the left during Biden's campaign was because they knew they'd need the left to win, especially when Clinton lost the electoral.

It'll be interesting to see what Democrats from here, especially since they have to start mending bridges they burned if they want to have any chance.

I don't think that we can wait for Democrats. Hopefully, there will be trustworthy leadership figures emerging from somewhere in the party, but for anyone who deems themselves against fascism, they need to take up this fight now.

If there is no pressure from the streets against the authoritarian measures Trump is pushing right now, I doubt your elections will be remotely fair for long. There are more entities than Democrats that can take up this fight (even tho Democrats are obviously crucial).

If there is a powerful movement like BLM in the 2020 election, democrats are going to pick up on that.

 

[Aeneas]

Trump is not going to fix anything. Trump is leading this country towards an oligarchy without free elections. I find it strange that people chose to talk more about democrat failings than republicans tossing the country into collapse.

The one good thing about it at this point is it lets me know who I can just ignore.

 

[shionoro]

As a little overview for what happenes in the first two months of the Trump regime:

• https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/02/kennedy-rfk-antidepressants-ssri-school-shootings/
  RFK wants to establish "wellness camps"for people who take SSRI or Opiates, getting them "off drugs".
  
  
• As in my previous post, Trump wants to revive the SAVE act that would make it harder or even impossible for millions of people (especially immigrants and women) to vote.
  
  
• JD Vance goes on worldstage, tears into Europe, tells them they will not be part of talks with Putin about Ukraine and champions German right extremists. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ceve3wl21x1o
  
  
• Elon and Trump started mass firing government agents, scrapping whole agencies with reckless abandon. We are looking at a complete purge of both people who might oppose their plans but also simply of competent people needed to run the country, seemingly in order to break it.
  
  
• Trump installed himself as the leader of the Kennedy center https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-reshaping-kennedy-center-board-performances/
  His first act was forcing one of the most important cultural centers in the US to abolish "woke culture".
  
  
• Ice agents started mass deporting immigrants. However, they were not able to meet deportation targets. https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-orders-ice-purge-of-top-officials-as-deportations-fall-short/ Now their leadership is fired, putting even more pressure on ICE to deport with the most extreme measures and without due process.
  
  
• Google obeys Trump and calls the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America. Generally, Tech companies align with the right extremist power that rules the country, from musk over zuckerberg to google.
  
  
• Trump threatened several countries like canada, the EU via Greenland or Arab countries over his insane Gaza plans. He also installed Tarrifs over nothing, creating tensions on the worldstage and increasing American poverty.
  

We are not looking at a normal inept and hawkish republican government. I think it is not an exaggeration to say that America has fallen. The question is whether it can get back up and right now, it certainly doesn't look like it.

 

[ninjabot]

Trump is not going to fix anything. Trump is leading this country towards an oligarchy without free elections. I find it strange that people chose to talk more about democrat failings than republicans tossing the country into collapse.

I don't find it strange at all. It makes perfect sense when you look at who's generally doing it.

Republicans are too busy rubbing their victory in our faces to attack us for what we're doing because... we can't do anything. They've got a Flawless Victory right now. So they aren't the ones doing it.

So who's doing it? Who's generally attacking Democrats?:

1: Leftist media outlets that wants to point out that they're leftier-than-thou for moral updoots on twitter. TYT, Majority Report, The Vanguard, The Serfs, Brianna Joy Grey, you get it.

2: Anti-woke grifters/their fans that believe the Democrats are the hyper-progressive caricatures that Tim Pool says they are and don't wanna vote for the NO Fun Brigade. The average Joe Rogan fan would be here. ALl of the Daily Wire, for sure.

3: Foreigners who have no stake in the game but do have political leanings that differ from what they view Democrats as... at least enough to keep harping on those particular differences.