American Politics

[kkck]

I guess I took exception with the reductive way in which you talked about it. I think the very real increase in suffering, especially of children, can't even be remotely considered a temporary "solution" to the issue. The people that actually hold power and purchase over the governments in the western world know exactly why the situation is the way it is, and they are more than happy to let the blood-and-soil flavor of Trump and his ilk to take the spotlight and redirect from the actual compounding issues at hand.

What exactly do you refer to when talking about negative consequences elsewhere though?

It's not my intention to be dismissive of any of the folk who are migrating (least of all kids). My point is that migration in both the way and scale it was happening has negative consequences on the countries that are part of this. As in, the countries these migrants come from and the ones they cross to get to the US. And also of course the US.

In broad strokes migration here starts in countries close to the darien gap. Primarily from Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador and Peru. countries further than that also do this but at significantly reduced rates. As I've mentioned before people from these countries basically hit the road, get to northern colombia and then head to panama. But there's simply no roads that connect colombia or panama, hence the pass through the darien gap. Which is literally a jungle with little to no government presence. To add to the full dangers of the wilderness you have that over the past few years guerilla activity has increased in activity in colombia which makes the journey even more dangerous.

Then once they pass they are at panama and they continue their travel. Of course at this point you also have folk from central america who are migrating to the US, they just don't have to commit to the sheer insanity that is crossing the gap. But central america is not exactly safe either, big chunks of the region have significant gang influence. And guerrillas, gangs and cartels are more than willing and able to exploit folk migrating to the US. Extortions and human trafficking is pretty common (add to that, human trafficking has seen a massive boom over the past several years). Disappearances are just common normal occurrences. And no one even knows how widespread this is. As, you know, it involves lawless with no government presence or oversight and some of the worst criminal organizations you can imagine. It's also not uncommon for migrants to be used to sneak in drugs to the US either. After all these are poor, vulnerable people that need resources to get to the US. And gangs/cartels are common enough in central america and mexico as it is.

Now onto the countries they are crossing... You have highly vulnerable people traversing countries with historic social instability. Neither the countries they originate from nor the countries they have to cross have the capacity to provide these migrants with sufficient social services. Hell, most of these have weak currencies and can't afford to take care of their own citizens to begin with. There is relief of course but it can never be what is required to cover the levels of immigration of the past couple of decades. Let alone that at some point if it increases enough folk in this countries would start to question it. And reasonably so at that. As in "hey, our children are not eve getting peanuts at public schools, why are we spending millions on people who aren't from here". Migration to the US is not only caused by political instability but is also a cause of political instability across multiple countries.

And getting back to a point I've made before... people pay attention to what US policy looks like. That's just a fact. The simple reality is that people migrated to the US in the scale and way they did simply because knew that the US would take them in. In my country I've seen entire news reports about people getting ready to migrate because a democrat was in office. This is why what trump did with deportations is such a big deal... Darien gap crossings remain virtually nothing. The red cross pretty much withdrew from the gap crossing simply because there was nothing to do. That's a great thing.

And I suppose finally something that is worth considering is that the process of seeking asylum in US has been broken for decades over the sheer amount of requests. Realistically speaking a lot of people do need asylum. And yet in spite of being in immediate danger a request takes years and years to process. To the point of it being unrealistic unless the case was in some manner very high profile. I suppose the well here is sort of poisoned though because with far less requests to go through it should even be feasible to process it quickly but on the other hand I'd guess trump has no appetite to grant asylum to anyone at all.

 

[shionoro]

It's not my intention to be dismissive of any of the folk who are migrating (least of all kids). My point is that migration in both the way and scale it was happening has negative consequences on the countries that are part of this. As in, the countries these migrants come from and the ones they cross to get to the US. And also of course the US.

In broad strokes migration here starts in countries close to the darien gap. Primarily from Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador and Peru. countries further than that also do this but at significantly reduced rates. As I've mentioned before people from these countries basically hit the road, get to northern colombia and then head to panama. But there's simply no roads that connect colombia or panama, hence the pass through the darien gap. Which is literally a jungle with little to no government presence. To add to the full dangers of the wilderness you have that over the past few years guerilla activity has increased in activity in colombia which makes the journey even more dangerous.

Then once they pass they are at panama and they continue their travel. Of course at this point you also have folk from central america who are migrating to the US, they just don't have to commit to the sheer insanity that is crossing the gap. But central america is not exactly safe either, big chunks of the region have significant gang influence. And guerrillas, gangs and cartels are more than willing and able to exploit folk migrating to the US. Extortions and human trafficking is pretty common (add to that, human trafficking has seen a massive boom over the past several years). Disappearances are just common normal occurrences. And no one even knows how widespread this is. As, you know, it involves lawless with no government presence or oversight and some of the worst criminal organizations you can imagine. It's also not uncommon for migrants to be used to sneak in drugs to the US either. After all these are poor, vulnerable people that need resources to get to the US. And gangs/cartels are common enough in central america and mexico as it is.

Now onto the countries they are crossing... You have highly vulnerable people traversing countries with historic social instability. Neither the countries they originate from nor the countries they have to cross have the capacity to provide these migrants with sufficient social services. Hell, most of these have weak currencies and can't afford to take care of their own citizens to begin with. There is relief of course but it can never be what is required to cover the levels of immigration of the past couple of decades. Let alone that at some point if it increases enough folk in this countries would start to question it. And reasonably so at that. As in "hey, our children are not eve getting peanuts at public schools, why are we spending millions on people who aren't from here". Migration to the US is not only caused by political instability but is also a cause of political instability across multiple countries.

And getting back to a point I've made before... people pay attention to what US policy looks like. That's just a fact. The simple reality is that people migrated to the US in the scale and way they did simply because knew that the US would take them in. In my country I've seen entire news reports about people getting ready to migrate because a democrat was in office. This is why what trump did with deportations is such a big deal... Darien gap crossings remain virtually nothing. The red cross pretty much withdrew from the gap crossing simply because there was nothing to do. That's a great thing.

And I suppose finally something that is worth considering is that the process of seeking asylum in US has been broken for decades over the sheer amount of requests. Realistically speaking a lot of people do need asylum. And yet in spite of being in immediate danger a request takes years and years to process. To the point of it being unrealistic unless the case was in some manner very high profile. I suppose the well here is sort of poisoned though because with far less requests to go through it should even be feasible to process it quickly but on the other hand I'd guess trump has no appetite to grant asylum to anyone at all.

There is a discussion to be had about the HOW and the US, even before Trump, definitely did mistakes. However:

1) If there is a solution to be found, it has to be one in which the US and most South American players sit down to find a fair division of burdens for the supercontinent. The US unilaterally ransacking people and imprisoning them somewhere is not going to stop the refugee crisis. There is no solution without the US as the strongest economy taking up a brunt of the load, both when it comes to people coming to the US and aiding unstable regions with aid. And we already talked about how hypocritical it is from a US standpoint to exploit labor and ressources from the south but then acting like it is the victim.

2) The problem here with Trump is not that the immigration laws are getting tougher. The problem is that the rule of law stops having meaning. The US government does everything so people do NOT get their due process, going as far as to defy judge orders or just imprisoning people for no reason at all.
This is not a country adjusting their immigration laws, this is a country slipping into fascism and installing a rule of cruelty and whim rather than a rule of law. Refugees and immigrants are the first victims because they are the easiest targets.

None of this is going to end up helping southern american states or easing the refugee streams on the subcontinent singificantly. On both points, none of this can be framed as improvement, but as a vile series of actions that push america into an even darker reality.

 

[Sanity Check]

Joe Biden diagnosed with ‘aggressive form’ of prostate cancer, his office says

Former US president is reviewing treatment options with family as cancer has spread to the bone

www.theguardian.com

wth

 

[xi0]

Perhaps there was some sort of medical blindspot that could exist given his age and any other undisclosed health issues that would make this sort of of thing difficult to detect, but it's very hard to believe that this wasn't known about not only while he was still in office, but perhaps even before he decided not to run again.

And again, I'll stress that perhaps there's a reason why the leader of the free world wouldn't have known he had cancer and that it had metastasized into his bones not even a year ago, despite everything I've read suggesting it typically takes at least a few years for that to happen with prostate cancer.... the absolute malfeasance of the people handling the kind of people we're supposed to want in power is just gross. This, Dianne Feinstein, what's currently going on with John Fetterman. Just an absolute embarrassment.

 

[shionoro]

Perhaps there was some sort of medical blindspot that could exist given his age and any other undisclosed health issues that would make this sort of of thing difficult to detect, but it's very hard to believe that this wasn't known about not only while he was still in office, but perhaps even before he decided not to run again.

And again, I'll stress that perhaps there's a reason why the leader of the free world wouldn't have known he had cancer and that it had metastasized into his bones not even a year ago, despite everything I've read suggesting it typically takes at least a few years for that to happen with prostate cancer.... the absolute malfeasance of the people handling the kind of people we're supposed to want in power is just gross. This, Dianne Feinstein, what's currently going on with John Fetterman. Just an absolute embarrassment.

I might be cynic, but I took this recent cancer announcement as a way to give the story of Biden being unfit to govern as president another, kinder spin.

 

[kkck]

'In good spirits': Biden resumes duties after temporary transfer of power to Harris during colonoscopy

During the procedure, Biden temporarily transferred presidential power to Vice President Kamala Harris.

www.usatoday.com

That's an article from 2021 about biden going to get a routine colonoscopy. So we are supposed to believe that biden, an incredibly wealthy dude with access to literally the best medical care in the world went through a colonoscopy a mere 4 years back and the cancer was not detected? Technically the chances of this are not zero. technically. But it's simply far more likely that a bunch of democrats lied their assess off. We are talking about a bunch of people who had zero issues lying about biden's mental state after all. Lying about Biden's cancer is a walk in the park comparatively.

 

[shionoro]

'In good spirits': Biden resumes duties after temporary transfer of power to Harris during colonoscopy

During the procedure, Biden temporarily transferred presidential power to Vice President Kamala Harris.

www.usatoday.com

That's an article from 2021 about biden going to get a routine colonoscopy. So we are supposed to believe that biden, an incredibly wealthy dude with access to literally the best medical care in the world went through a colonoscopy a mere 4 years back and the cancer was not detected? Technically the chances of this are not zero. technically. But it's simply far more likely that a bunch of democrats lied their assess off. We are talking about a bunch of people who had zero issues lying about biden's mental state after all. Lying about Biden's cancer is a walk in the park comparatively.

I do think Biden knew, but a colonoscopy would not show prostate cancer, especially in early stages.

 

[kkck]

I do think Biden knew, but a colonoscopy would not show prostate cancer, especially in early stages.

Ah, wait, I thought I read colon cancer. Missing that is still at least as unbelievable all things considered though.

 

[xi0]

I might be cynic, but I took this recent cancer announcement as a way to give the story of Biden being unfit to govern as president another, kinder spin.

Well, who knows what they're thinking because they're proven time and time again to make terrible decisions, but it's difficult to see why they'd think this would change anything. If anything it just makes the careerist trash staff members and operatives politicians surround themselves with look worse.

I do think Biden knew, but a colonoscopy would not show prostate cancer, especially in early stages.

Routine bloodwork prior to a medical procedure or just a general checkup should though. Unless there's something about this form of cancer that makes it undetectable by normal means, even if it's metastasized to the bones, but nothing I've seen suggests that.

 

[catagon87]

I don't really get why it matters at this point. We know how the game works by now. Most of them intend on dying in office. This just makes the DNC look worse, because it's pretty obvious they were trying to get Harris into office without actually electing her. It's not illegal or anything, but it's pretty shady and when you put it together with other somewhat nefarious things they've done it definitely makes them look ripe for a reformat. It's seriously frustrating though. It's near impossible to work a regular job with any stage of cancer, much less late stage and metastasized. The drugs alone would make most people unreliable.

The biggest red flag should have been pushing a candidate who's in their early 80s for a four-year term when most people don't live much beyond that.The SSA's actuarial table puts an 82 year old man's probability of death at about 7%. Not extraordinarily high, but more than most people would be comfortable with.

 

[shionoro]

Same. There are much more important things to talk about right now, namely the fascist power grab and how to stop it.

 

[xi0]

I don't really get why it matters at this point. We know how the game works by now. Most of them intend on dying in office. This just makes the DNC look worse, because it's pretty obvious they were trying to get Harris into office without actually electing her. It's not illegal or anything, but it's pretty shady and when you put it together with other somewhat nefarious things they've done it definitely makes them look ripe for a reformat. It's seriously frustrating though. It's near impossible to work a regular job with any stage of cancer, much less late stage and metastasized. The drugs alone would make most people unreliable.

The biggest red flag should have been pushing a candidate who's in their early 80s for a four-year term when most people don't live much beyond that.The SSA's actuarial table puts an 82 year old man's probability of death at about 7%. Not extraordinarily high, but more than most people would be comfortable with.

I think it's pretty relevant given what you elaborated on yourself - this is business as usual. The problem is business as usual failed at preventing what we're dealing with now. The question is what have Democrats learned from all of this? So far it seems like nothing.

 

[shionoro]

I think it's pretty relevant given what you elaborated on yourself - this is business as usual. The problem is business as usual failed at preventing what we're dealing with now. The question is what have Democrats learned from all of this? So far it seems like nothing.

The only way they will learn is if the establishment democrats lose some power in the primaries.

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2025, Original Post Date: May 21, 2025 ---

U.S. citizen with REAL ID handcuffed and held in immigration raid before being released

The man told Noticias Telemundo that authorities took his ID from his wallet and told him it was fake before handcuffing him.

www.nbcnews.com

A U.S.-born citizen who was wrestled into the dirt, handcuffed and detained in a vehicle as part of an immigration raid had a REAL ID on him that was dismissed as fake, the man's cousin said Friday.

Video of the arrest, aired by Noticias Telemundo, showed authorities grabbing Leonardo Garcia Venegas, 25, while at a job site in Foley, Alabama, on Wednesday and bending his arms behind him. Someone off-camera can be heard yelling, "He's a citizen."


Garcia told Noticias Telemundo that authorities took his ID from his wallet and told him it was fake before handcuffing him. REAL ID is the identification U.S. citizens are required by law to have in order to travel through airports and enter federal buildings. It is considered a higher security form of identification.

"Apparently a REAL ID is not valid anymore. He has a REAL ID," his cousin Shelah Venegas said. "We all made sure we have the REAL ID and went through the protocols the administration is asking for. ... He has his REAL ID and then they see him and I guess because his English isn't fluent and/or because he's brown it's fake, it's not real."

Garcia had told Noticias Telemundo that "they grabbed me real bad" and the handcuffs were placed "very hard" on him.

Garcia said he was released from the vehicle where he was held after he gave the arresting officials his Social Security number, which showed he is a U.S. citizen.

 

[Sanity Check]

Elon Musk leaves advisory role in Trump admin.

 

[catagon87]

I think it's pretty relevant given what you elaborated on yourself - this is business as usual. The problem is business as usual failed at preventing what we're dealing with now. The question is what have Democrats learned from all of this? So far it seems like nothing.

Nobody has learned anything. It's insanity. The DNC is like a real life version of "Succession" if you've ever watched that.

 

[kkck]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/05/us/elon-musk-trump-epstein-files.html

The love story between trump and elon lasted more than i would have expected. What a fucking clown show, it's utterly impossible to expect even the absolute bare minimum of basic decency from republicans. At the slightest provocation pedo accusations fly...

 

[xi0]

We're in hell, and these people are responsible too

 

[M3J]

I hope Dems and the left know that Elon is still a piece of shit who knew damning things and didn't share because he stood to gain.

 

[shionoro]

Its great if Elon Musk hurts Trump, tho there cannot ever be any concession to him just to build some kind of united front. There is no successfull protection against Trump that hinges on Elon, it has to come from people who do it for the right reasons.

 

[kkck]

So, um, wtf is going on in california? I've read some articles on this but what I've read varies between protestors either being a murderous zombie horde or harmless hippies with flowers.