American Politics

[GrySun]

Because you keep bringing it up as if Trump and his supporters first amendment rights were violated and they weren't.

Don't worry it's all in your head.

The protesters exercised their right to assemble as well. There were 5 arrests and 2 cops sustained non-life threatening injuries. Protesters were bloodied up and carried away by cops as well. This is hardly an indictment of Sander's supporters or Sander's himself. Sanders isn't up on the podium inciting violence, but Trump definitely is. Unfortunately for you, there's multiple clips of that.

If only all they did was assemble. So just because Sanders isn't saying "go do it" it doesn't say anything about them? Wasn't it you who told me once that it says a lot about a candidate when such troublesome individuals are drawn to them. Both Trump and Sanders have them. So by your own definition, isn't it actually more interesting that Sanders has such people when he's not the one inciting violence? And you people are overreacting with the "inciting violence" part. Trump hates protesters, and so do the people at his rallies. The violence doesn't extend beyond that, as we've yet to see Trump supporters violently disturb and attack people during the rallies of other people.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2016 ---

Wow what an election expert! There are exit polls that occur after people vote that exist to assess someone's electability in the general election, their likability compared to everyone in the field, assessing the demographics of who is voting for a particular candidate, etc.

I know that. So what? Last I checked apparently both Sanders and Clinton fare better against Trump, so neither of them are "unelectable"(I hate that term).

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2016 ---

Maybe it was some splash from my conversation with you. It seemed like he was implying it shouldn't be going on. But you both seem to have an issue with people exercising their right to assemble. That's a part of the First Amendment btw, which you seem to be so well-versed on.

Please define assemble, I fear we may have different definitions in mind.

 

[kkck]

But he's not saying to attack them. In his rallys this weekend, he was like "be nice, be gentle"

He is not saying that now (at best). Not a week ago he was telling his supporters to hit back and all sort of things. And even with this small change his campaign is still violent in the sense that it instigates people against "enemies"; Mexicans who come through the border, immigrants from other places to hurt the economy, everyone laughing at the US, pandering to fear and hate... Hasn't trump gathered support from US hate groups and homegrown terrorists? Trump saying "be gentle" at this point changes very little.

 

[GrySun]

@xi0 say, who did you vote in 2008 and 2012? Has nothing to do with these talks, I'm just curious.

 

[xi0]

If only all they did was assemble. So just because Sanders isn't saying "go do it" it doesn't say anything about them? Wasn't it you who told me once that it says a lot about a candidate when such troublesome individuals are drawn to them. Both Trump and Sanders have them. So by your own definition, isn't it actually more interesting that Sanders has such people when he's not the one inciting violence? And you people are overreacting with the "inciting violence" part. Trump hates protesters, and so do the people at his rallies. The violence doesn't extend beyond that, as we've yet to see Trump supporters violently disturb and attack people during the rallies of other people.

No, I'd say it says a lot less about Sanders supporters compared to Trump supporters. Sanders supporters don't like Clinton at all either, but are they causing disruptions and throwing bottles at cops there? Sanders isn't saying the kind of violent things that Trump does. Trump doesn't necessarily disavow the people who do it either. He'd rather copout with the "people are angry" nonsense. Just like how he "didn't know" who David Duke is despite calling him a racist in the past.

So hating protesters, accosting them and "roughing" them up is something that should be done? This isn't just a one time thing either. Trump basically condones it. It's only now that he "had" to cancel and event that maybe he'll wise up and stop saying such irresponsible things.

 

[kkck]

I agree. But how does that help them win against Hillary? We're talking about the point of their protests, not about it's legitimacy.

Isn't the point of the protest to simply protest trump and call him out on being an asshole and be seen doing it? They are obviously not there to convert trump supporters lol.

 

[xi0]

@xi0 say, who did you vote in 2008 and 2012? Has nothing to do with these talks, I'm just curious.

In the general election or the primary? I'm a registered democrat and my state is a closed primary. My state is usually won by a Democrat in the general election, so it doesn't make much sense to register as an Independent like I'd prefer. I wouldn't be able to vote in the primary otherwise.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2016 ---

I know that. So what? Last I checked apparently both Sanders and Clinton fare better against Trump, so neither of them are "unelectable"(I hate that term).

Because you asked me why people attack the other parties candidates during the primary....?

Please define assemble, I fear we may have different definitions in mind.

The right to protest? You're acting like pissed off Trump supporters left the arena peacefully and just happened to be attacked or something. They left incensed that Trump cancelled the event and confronted them. That's never going to go well. I mean honestly, this whole incident can be blamed on the security apparatus there. I saw a former member of the Secret Service on TV today and he said as much. If you don't vet who has access to your event, it's your fault. But even if they choose to not do this, it tacitly means that Trump likes dressing these people down from the podium. You can tell he gets off on it. If he didn't want to be interrupted at all, event security wouldn't be allowed people like that in.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2016 ---

I mean, Trump himself doesn't even understand the law himself, calling for protesters or "disrupters" to be arrested. You can't arrest someone for such a thing. It's the police's job to decided who gets arrested and who doesn't. You can evict them if it's private property, but simply doing such a thing isn't breaking the law and it isn't in violation of anyone's rights.

When violence is involved and it's going on in the streets, that's a different topic thought.

 

[SharkBait]

Its rude and impolite to interrupt a rally. People ought to have civilized and humane and protest in appropriate locations. Trump deserves respect, hes a potential future leader of America so their acting really rude and offensive to him and his supporters. Its not nice.

 

[GrySun]

No, I'd say it says a lot less about Sanders supporters compared to Trump supporters. Sanders supporters don't like Clinton at all either, but are they causing disruptions and throwing bottles at cops there? Sanders isn't saying the kind of violent things that Trump does. Trump doesn't necessarily disavow the people who do it either. He'd rather copout with the "people are angry" nonsense. Just like how he "didn't know" who David Duke is despite calling him a racist in the past.

So hating protesters, accosting them and "roughing" them up is something that should be done? This isn't just a one time thing either. Trump basically condones it. It's only now that he "had" to cancel and event that maybe he'll wise up and stop saying such irresponsible things.

Yes Sanders doesn't say violent things like Trump, yet he still has people who act violently. Which is more surprising than Trump having such people.

It doesn't matter if it should be done or not, this violent way of dealing with protesters is how Trump wants his private rallies to be, it's his decision. You, I nor anyone else can change his attitude on these things. But it's still limited to that, his rallies. He doesn't tell people to go to other candidate's rallies and do the same thing there, which is why I'm saying you're overreacting. You can however quote me once it happens for me to go all ""

Isn't the point of the protest to simply protest trump and call him out on being an asshole and be seen doing it? They are obviously not there to convert trump supporters lol.

Eh, maybe I'm looking too deep into it. It felt like they think that these protests make Bernie look better.

In the general election or the primary? I'm a registered democrat and my state is a closed primary. My state is usually won by a Democrat in the general election, so it doesn't make much sense to register as an Independent like I'd prefer. I wouldn't be able to vote in the primary otherwise.

Ah I see.

Because you asked me why people attack the other parties candidates during the primary....?

Yes but it still won't mean anything if they don't get Sanders the nomination, so I feel like they should be using their energy and efforts for that first, but hey their choice.

The right to protest?

They can do that, but blocking ambulances and throwing bottles isn't included in peaceful protesting, not to mention the hillarity of them being more violent than the guy they protest against for being violent..

I mean, Trump himself doesn't even understand the law himself, calling for protesters or "disrupters" to be arrested. You can't arrest someone for such a thing. It's the police's job to decided who gets arrested and who doesn't. You can evict them if it's private property, but simply doing such a thing isn't breaking the law and it isn't in violation of anyone's rights.

When violence is involved and it's going on in the streets, that's a different topic thought.

I think he was talking about some old times when that was the case? Besides, afaik they're only allowed to protest outside, not inside.

Well we already have cases of this...

 

[kkck]

Yes Sanders doesn't say violent things like Trump, yet he still has people who act violently. Which is more surprising than Trump having such people.

It doesn't matter if it should be done or not, this violent way of dealing with protesters is how Trump wants his private rallies to be, it's his decision. You, I nor anyone else can change his attitude on these things. But it's still limited to that, his rallies. He doesn't tell people to go to other candidate's rallies and do the same thing there, which is why I'm saying you're overreacting. You can however quote me once it happens for me to go all ""

Eh, maybe I'm looking too deep into it. It felt like they think that these protests make Bernie look better.

Ah I see.

Yes but it still won't mean anything if they don't get Sanders the nomination, so I feel like they should be using their energy and efforts for that first, but hey their choice.

They can do that, but blocking ambulances and throwing bottles isn't included in peaceful protesting, not to mention the hillarity of them being more violent than the guy they protest against for being violent..

I think he was talking about some old times when that wa the case? Besides, afaik they're only allowed to protest outside, not inside.

Well we already have cases of this...

Well, it would be surprising if the violent people trump has gathered are the same violent people sanders have gathered. Trump has been gathering people who responded to his violent and racist campaign. The ones who have protested trump seem to be minorities who take issue at trump's racism. I'd say it's unfair to put both groups in the same pile.

I am not sure trump inciting people to commit crimes (as in attacking someone) is completely legal even at the US.

I think the protesters are there to make more of a civil rights point rather than bernie. Bernie just happens to be the candidate which for them takes those issues more seriously. And in a way sanders is the biggest contrast there is to trumps... "right" given that sanders is the candidate furthest to the left.

 

[GrySun]

@kkck would you mind giving me an example of Trump's racism?

 

[kkck]

@kkck would you mind giving me an example of Trump's racism?

Other than what he has said about mexicans and muslims? The wall, his immigration policies....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83

 

[GrySun]

Other than what he has said about mexicans and muslims? The wall, his immigration policies....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83

Muslim isn't a race, it's an ideology. Mexican isn't a race either, it's a nationality. And all he said for Mexicans is that many illegals are bad people which happens to be true.

That link seems like a joke after reading it. It's like someone's desperate attempt of grouping anything he can as racism.
So where's this alleged racism?

There's only one thing I noticed about Trump's differing views of humans. He puts American citizens above non-american citizens, which can be argued as a good or bad thing. Still no racism however.

 

[xi0]

Its rude and impolite to interrupt a rally. People ought to have civilized and humane and protest in appropriate locations. Trump deserves respect, hes a potential future leader of America so their acting really rude and offensive to him and his supporters. Its not nice.

Oh yeah, and Trump really knows a lot about being "nice" and paying that forward, doesn't he? No he doesn't deserve respect. People can judge for themselves whether someone is deserving of respect based on that person's words and actions. Saying that protesters should be arrested and assaulted is disrespectful to the Bill of Rights and the principals this country was founded on. It's clear the man doesn't even understand those.

I think he was talking about some old times when that was the case? Besides, afaik they're only allowed to protest outside, not inside.

Well we already have cases of this...

No, that was him just recently lol. It's not about being "allowed" or not. People can be disruptive out of protest, but it's security's responsibility if they wish to evict them from private popularity. That doesn't mean they're not legally allowed to do what they did. But it is illegal for the people in attendance there to assault the person who's doing it. And Trump saying the things he has doesn't necessarily assuage such a situation either, does it? He's even being investigated for inciting a riot in North Carolina apparently.

Oh yeah, and that was egged on by Sanders dude. Get real. The violence we're talking about with Trump happens at his own rallies and encouragement comes out of his own mouth and the actions of his campaign. Not merely someone who's going around saying they support Trump. There are whackos everywhere, but Trump not only tolerates it until after the fact, he doesn't disavow it either. Like the David Duke horseshit where he pretended to not know who he was or what white supremacy is. When the former national leader of the KKK endorses you for president, you're supposed to tell him no thanks, not act like you don't know who he is or what he stands for when you're on the record stating the opposite. When you compare this to 2008 when a birther retard stood up at a town hall John McCain was holding and said Obama wasn't American and McCain had the common fucking decency to immediately shut her ass down and rebuked her for what she said. No such thing would happen if it was Trump there instead, of course he wouldn't, he was a vocal part of the birther movement himself and never apologized for it either. No, instead you have this bullshit artist with people drawn to his talk-about-how-great-I-am-for-an-hour rallies who say they want people to "Go to Auschwitz" or "Go back to Africa" or beating the shit out of other people for having a different opinion loudly. Instead you have an even worse version of the Tea Party, a horde of know-nothing bigoted isolationist ignoramuses.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2016 ---

Muslim isn't a race, it's an ideology. Mexican isn't a race either, it's a nationality. And all he said for Mexicans is that many illegals are bad people which happens to be true.

Of course Muslim isn't a race, but I think even an idiot can see what he means there. He's ignorant of who's coming over the border as well, and Mexican is an ethnicity. You're getting wrapped up in semantics here. So maybe he isn't racist, but I guess it's okay if he's a bigot then?

 

[kkck]

Muslim isn't a race, it's an ideology. Mexican isn't a race either, it's a nationality. And all he said for Mexicans is that many illegals are bad people which happens to be true.

That link seems like a joke after reading it. It's like someone's desperate attempt of grouping anything he can as racism.
So where's this alleged racism?

There's only one thing I noticed about Trump's differing views of humans. He puts American citizens above non-american citizens, which can be argued as a good or bad thing. Still no racism however.

You know what I mean. And even if your post is serious, the implication would be that he is overtly xenophobic. Or is being xenophobic an improvement over being racist somehow?

 

[GrySun]

No, that was him just recently lol. It's not about being "allowed" or not. People can be disruptive out of protest, but it's security's responsibility if they wish to evict them from private popularity. That doesn't mean they're not legally allowed to do what they did. But it is illegal for the people in attendance there to assault the person who's doing it. And Trump saying the things he has doesn't necessarily assuage such a situation either, does it? He's even being investigated for inciting a riot in North Carolina apparently.

Yes he said it recently, I said that "Trump talked about old times where protesters used to be arrested", come on how can you misunderstand that?

I think he was talking about some old times when that was the case

He was lamenting about old times where protesters were arrested. And you talk as if protesters are beat up and assaulted on every rally. Most of the time they're just escorted out. But what can you do when they start resisting, pushing and stragling? I've seen those "protesters" you defend, some heavily resist being thrown out.

h yeah, and that was egged on by Sanders dude. Get real. The violence we're talking about with Trump happens at his own rallies and encouragement comes out of his own mouth and the actions of his campaign. Not merely someone who's going around saying they support Trump. There are whackos everywhere, but Trump not only tolerates it until after the fact, he doesn't disavow it either. Like the David Duke horseshit where he pretended to not know who he was or what white supremacy is. When the former national leader of the KKK endorses you for president, you're supposed to tell him no thanks, not act like you don't know who he is or what he stands for when you're on the record stating the opposite. When you compare this to 2008 when a birther retard stood up at a town hall John McCain was holding and said Obama wasn't American and McCain had the common fucking decency to immediately shut her ass down and rebuked her for what she said. No such thing would happen if it was Trump there instead, of course he wouldn't, he was a vocal part of the birther movement himself and never apologized for it either. No, instead you have this bullshit artist with people drawn to his talk-about-how-great-I-am-for-an-hour rallies who say they want people to "Go to Auschwitz" or "Go back to Africa" or beating the shit out of other people for having a different opinion loudly. Instead you have an even worse version of the Tea Party, a horde of know-nothing bigoted isolationist ignoramuses.

Are you honestly bringing up the Duke events? Trump disavowed it a bilion times, yet people kept requesting him to disavow. What's the point of you bringing that up? You're just nitpicking about the speed. I'm sure Bernie would've been so fast and disavowed 2 minutes later.

The rest is just you over-generalizing and grouping things together out of your own convenience again, it's really getting old. But as you said before, no need to be petty and mentioning things that need not to be answered.

Of course Muslim isn't a race, but I think even an idiot can see what he means there. He's ignorant of who's coming over the border as well, and Mexican is an ethnicity. You're getting wrapped up in semantics here. So maybe he isn't racist, but I guess it's okay if he's a bigot then?

You're talking as if he's against illegal immigrants and muslims just because he hates them and is a bigot, when he gave reasons for everything he said regarding both. You can disagree with his reasons, but come. I know you hate him so much(although I thought Bernie supporters aren't as hate filled ) but you're just insulting him at this point.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2016 ---

You know what I mean. And even if your post is serious, the implication would be that he is overtly xenophobic. Or is being xenophobic an improvement over being racist somehow?

He gave his reasons for everything pretty clearly, but yeah clearly he's xenophobic because you say so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2016 ---

To clarify for both of you. He's not against mexican illegal immigrants because they are mexican. He's also not against muslim immigrants because they're muslim. He's given legitimate(although disagreeable) reasons for both.

 

[xi0]

Yes he said it recently, I said that "Trump talked about old times where protesters used to be arrested", come on how can you misunderstand that?

He was lamenting about old times where protesters were arrested. And you talk as if protesters are beat up and assaulted on every rally. Most of the time they're just escorted out. But what can you do when they start resisting, pushing and stragling? I've seen those "protesters" you defend, some heavily resist being thrown out.

Lamenting about old times in what way exactly?? He wants people who disrupts his rallies to be arrested, doesn't care what the charge is and has threatened to press charges, which basically means nothing. He doesn't even understand the law. He also wants to "open up" libel laws to suppress free speech as well.

Yeah, some do resist. What does that have to do with the legality of it?

Are you honestly bringing up the Duke events? Trump disavowed it a bilion times, yet people kept requesting him to disavow. What's the point of you bringing that up? You're just nitpicking about the speed. I'm sure Bernie would've been so fast and disavowed 2 minutes later.

The rest is just you over-generalizing and grouping things together out of your own convenience again, it's really getting old. But as you said before, no need to be petty and mentioning things that need not to be answered.

Yet he didn't know who he was or what white supremacy was until people winced and cringed at him for yet another mishap that just happens to work in his favor in the end. Awww shucks, what an accident! Sanders wouldn't have acted like he didn't know who Duke was. Tt isn't like Duke would have endorsed him anyways, that's ridiculous.

Why would it not be for my own convenience? I'm the one writing the post and making the point. What are you complaining about exactly? What doesn't need to be answered? Did I ask you a question anywhere there? An opinion isn't a question, you either address it if you want or don't. No real point in complaining about it.

You're talking as if he's against illegal immigrants and muslims just because he hates them and is a bigot, when he gave reasons for everything he said regarding both. You can disagree with his reasons, but come. I know you hate him so much(although I thought Bernie supporters aren't as hate filled ) but you're just insulting him at this point.

I was insulting his supporters, not him. I don't think he needs me to insult him to get my point across. I actually think he's way more shrewd than he appears and is exploiting the ignorant masses with his toxic rhetoric for his benefit.

And why exactly are you so fervently defending him? The only thing you've done is defend him and critique his detractors, without mentioning any of your own views (outside of your concern for xenophobic stance towards non-Americans, which is obviously not going to end in an endorsement for him if you have any common sense) or why you even support him. You come off as either a troll or a contrarian and seem to always resort to ad hominem when you don't like what people have to say.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2016 ---

To clarify for both of you. He's not against mexican illegal immigrants because they are mexican. He's also not against muslim immigrants because they're muslim. He's given legitimate(although disagreeable) reasons for both.

What the fuck is the difference really? He kicked off his campaign by painting illegal immigrants as rapists and criminals. He then had to backpedal and say he didn't mean "all". The fact this guy continues to have to backpedal and clarify what he means is NOT an accident. He uses this rhetoric to tacitly recruit the ignorant, racist, and bigoted.

 

[M3J]

These are all words Milly. No one in the race is going to say they don't care about inner-city communities and the like. You can only go off of someone's record. Clinton definitely has a record of such things, but she has a history of being a liar as well. Just look at what she claimed about Nancy Reagan at her funeral regarding AIDs awareness. It was complete nonsense and she had to apologize for it. You can also refer to her lying during the 2008 election cycle about coming under fire during her trip to Bosnia when she was the First Lady. I'm not going to condemn her for what her husband did, but the way in which she is painted as a ally of women seems bizarre when there were a ton of allegations regarding her siccing private investigators and trying to smear his mistresses in a variety of ways. But any suggestion of such a thing is only painted as a "vast right-wing conspiracy" by her. But to be fair, I guess this was a policy decided and carried out by the entire administration itself, but she definitely seemed to have no qualms about such a thing and stood right by him through it all.

Lot of things about Hillary are dubious, which is why I don't understand how she has support. But then, we live in a society where Donald Drumpf is getting tons of support and is the main republican candidate.

Oh, it was just more of the "1 guy is like that, thus everyone is like that". Disappointing.

I thought you showed that one badly made Trump tweet which was quite retarded of him to do.





Well this convo-line was a few days old so i don't blame you for forgetting. It's not about the cancellation of the Trump rally. It's about all the things the "protesters" did afterwards which people call "them excercising their right of free speech" lmao.

If the protesters did do horrible stuff, then shame on them. However, I googled and not much popped up, other than one or two protesters jumping the barricade or something. Unless you call cursing bad.

his supporters keep coming and interrupting trumps rallies for some reason.

They interrupt Drumpf's rallies because he is a horrible person and a racist who encourages violence against protesters and minorities at his rallies. If Drumpf wasn't a piece of shit who encourages violence and division among people, he wouldn't have protesters tryin to stop his rallies. It's Drumpf's fault for the reactions he's been getting.

Its rude and impolite to interrupt a rally. People ought to have civilized and humane and protest in appropriate locations. Trump deserves respect, hes a potential future leader of America so their acting really rude and offensive to him and his supporters. Its not nice.

No, Drumpf does not deserve respect. Horrible human beings do not deserve respect.
Nothing wrong with protesting at rallies, that's how you get your voice heard. And the current voice is that Drumpf is a piece of shit. He can't expect to condone and encourage violence and racism and not get a reaction. If any politician kept peddling the kind of crap Drumpf does, he or she would get backlash from citizens as well.

 

[Dragoon]

@GrySun Uhhhhh... People in groups are stupid? What isn't there to get? It isn't his (bernies) fault that some of his supporters waste their time like this and only 1 of them incites actual confrontation as you should know by now?

"Many illegals are bad people" the hell... I mean, yeah there are some bad people mixed in, there isn't any doubts about that but "many" in what way do you mean that? Just that there is a big number of people coming to the u.s to fuck things up or that the majority of them are bad? I seriously hope you aren't of the thought that the majority are bad... and as xi0 said, it's clear trump is smarter than he appears to be; he's an opportunist to be exact, although I don't know what his end game might be tbh.

Edit: while it works, I intended to use game not goal lol

 

[kkck]

@GrySun Uhhhhh... People in groups are stupid? What isn't there to get? It isn't his (bernies) fault that some of his supporters waste their time like this and only 1 of them incites actual confrontation as you should know by now?

"Many illegals are bad people" the hell... I mean, yeah there are some bad people mixed in, there isn't any doubts about that but "many" in what way do you mean that? Just that there is a big number of people coming to the u.s to fuck things up or that the majority of them are bad? I seriously hope you aren't of the thought that the majority are bad... and as xi0 said, it's clear trump is smarter than he appears to be; he's an opportunist to be exact, although I don't know what his end goal might be tbh.

Personally I think he is there for his own ego. He said he was going to run for president for the same reason he says anything, to get attention, and then just went with it. The guy is a pathological liar with a need to sustain a needlessly large ego. He is there to "win" by any means necessary.Well, perhaps the pathological liar part is inaccurate in the sense that he probably believes everything that comes out of his mouth regardless of whether he even has any real information to back up that opinion, him saying it makes it true in his mind. And when he backs down from a lie, it's not that he took it back, in his mind he merely clarified what might have been hyperbole or a slight exaggeration.

 

[SharkBait]

Today is Marco Rubio's day. Lettuce win Floridians hearts and usher in a new American century.